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The Next Support Should be an Anti-Enchanter

RookPusher··26 votes·1,513 views

Primarily because we need something to counter the Janna/Raka/Lulu/Sona snoozefest. Here's a few ideas I think would be cool:

  1. An ult that is the inverse of Tryndamere. I.e. imagine a bard ult, but everyone hit by it can't gain health for 10 seconds. This includes heals, Life Steal, Abilities, items, and natural regeneration.

  2. A link is formed with an ally like Knight's Vow. [NEW CHAMP] can cast [ABILITY X] on an enemy champ. All healing that enemy champ receives is also received by the linked Ally (assuming they are in range for link to appear)

  3. Passive ability that stores up charges based on healing cast near the champ. These charges HoT nearby allied champs. (This is like a reverse Maokai passive)

  4. [ABILITY X] is cast on enemy champ. A shield is created that prevents healing until X amount of healing is committed. Should a single heal overheal this amount, all additional healing would be applied to that champs Health Bar. (This is basically a healing shield, rather than a damage shield).

27 Comments

Metleon21 votes

Having just one of these could be good, but putting nothing but anti enchanter stuff on a kit would make it so the champ is useless against anything else.

Some sort of tether ability like karma's that steals part of the enemy champs heals/shields would be cool and could also be used against tanks if they don't specifically have an enchanter.

RookPusher15 votes

Yeah, sorry to clarify, I'm saying one of these. I just wanted to float some concepts.

Khristophoros5 votes

No. What happened to just nerfing things? It's really simple. Nerf Janna and Lulu. They are OP.

RookPusher6 votes

Uh, well I don't think they're OP, but they are boring. They have too many things that negate you going in on an enemy ADC.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

Uh, well I don't think they're OP, but they are boring. They have too many things that negate you going in on an enemy ADC.

They were quite obviously OP on Ardent patches. We'll see where they are at in the runes reforged patch. Personally I won't be surprised if they are still OP but we'll see.

RookPusher4 votes

Even if that were true (I have no opinion) it sounds like Ardent was OP, not the enchanters.

StairCasexd4 votes

{quoted}

They were quite obviously OP on Ardent patches. We'll see where they are at in the runes reforged patch. Personally I won't be surprised if they are still OP but we'll see.

I mean, people will always say they're OP because they are able to protect the adc. And protecting the adc with sheilds is one of the reasons you'd pick them so there's no win win situation. Look at Janna/lulu statistically atm, they're not the best of the best anymore, hookers and tanky supports like Leona are pretty viable now that ardent isn't a great item until late game.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, people will always say they're OP because they are able to protect the adc. And protecting the adc with sheilds is one of the reasons you'd pick them so there's no win win situation. Look at Janna/lulu statistically atm, they're not the best of the best anymore, hookers and tanky supports like Leona are pretty viable now that ardent isn't a great item until late game.

They are OP because they reduce bot lane support diversity by being too good at it. Yes, others are viable but even more supports could be viable.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Uh, well I don't think they're OP, but they are boring. They have too many things that negate you going in on an enemy ADC.

That's probably why they're considered OP, because that counter engage gives them that level of reliability.

But if that's the case, anti enchanter measures would be a gross over generalization, that would probably hurt other enchanters more. Since a good chunk of their disengage potential is in their CC, not their heals and shields.

k wìx3 votes

I'd rather see these effects on a new or current item, but yea - great ideas all around. We could use some tools to prevent massive healing / shielding.

RookPusher2 votes

It certainly would, but it doesn't lend itself to counter picking. If they were going with an item, I think that's best done with upgrade options, meaning if you want to negate healing, you have to choose Upgrade A over Upgrade B.

Items scare me because they often get nerfed into oblivion. And while champs can as well, a counter typically remains a counter.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

It certainly would, but it doesn't lend itself to counter picking. If they were going with an item, I think that's best done with upgrade options, meaning if you want to negate healing, you have to choose Upgrade A over Upgrade B.

Items scare me because they often get nerfed into oblivion. And while champs can as well, a counter typically remains a counter.

having one champion, designed to counter an entire branch of the support role, is going to end up on the permaban list as long as the enchanter meta exists. The champion itself would be that niche. (And nerfed to insure it stays niche)

Also, some of your suggestions would be too absolute for Riots definition of a counter. Riot doesn't really believe in hard counters, and says a counter match up would still have about a 60-40 win ratio.

Lastly, a champion's kit will counter pretty much from the word go. (Giving the opponent little ability to play around the counter matchup.) But put that ability on a niche item, an your opponent will have at least a window to play around before you counter build them. (And you may only need to counter build them if they run away with the game.)

Rıots Bad Client2 votes

My suggestions

  • Debuff that A converts Healing to damage over time.

  • Or a move That grants shield to an ally(lets make it spicy saying you can't cast it on yourself) that acts like a magnet And collects all other shields that activate/or up. During the time its up. And Like sion Shield it pops dealing damage based on how much shield is left.

  • A debuff that negates the use of Summoner spells/Items for a brief moment.

  • A move that collects 25% of all healing done. Into a damage ability.

  • A move that targets All allies that are knocked up, and Pulls them towards you. (It'd be pretty cool to see an ori 4 man ult/yas combo, and then the supp just comes in and counters it. )... Also there is no counter to Knockups. So it'd be a nice addition.

  • A move that Debuffs a Enemy target. The Ability changes All healing to Gray health, and only 2 seconds it will slowly gain. When leaving combat will instantly give only %60/%50/%40/%30/%20 back.

  • A move that targets all Enemies that Gain certain % of Hp back in time. you can then target that enemy(Think Sej), applies grievous wounds and burns that Hp Back down over time.

chipndip12 votes

When's the last time we had an Enchanter?

Before worrying about an "anti-Enchanter", how about updating the roster of actual Enchanters?

ChaosThief1 votes

Keep in mind that champions in progress are often designed for around a year in total. As in, the next champion that we see in a month or two is probably in development as we speak.

It is a good idea though to toss around ideas. Often times a champion is developed from a simple visual aspect or a theme. "Anti-enchanter" is a little bit too specific for this, I would say.

Also, I can think of other things that might be fun. For instance, a spell that does bonus damage specifically to enemies with shields. Hell, we could even make an assassin concept where they ignore shields as well.

If anything enchanters in general need to be updated. You said it yourself; they're boring. They point, they click, boom, effect. They have no problem functioning gameplay-wise, but it would be nice for them to interact a bit more.

Nymzo1 votes

I want the next support to have something unique like Kayn's passif or Orrn passif.

Ollerus1 votes

I honestly believe that the best ability that Riot could add to this game would be:

Curse a single target, ANY heals or shields used on this champion for the next 3 seconds will have a REVERSE effect. Shields and heals damage equal to the amount shielded. That would add so much more skill to a LOT of matchups.

DemainaNyx1 votes

Only if taking damage during the curse time heals the target, cause otherwise that's insanely broken.

You basically just negated the Soraka/Shen by using 1 ability on that ADC caught in the Lux QER combo, or had Mundo kill himself by using the ability after he pops his ult, or had Vlad kill himself by using it after casting a 5 man ult. Could even trick Ryze into killing himself by getting his rune shield up and popping Seraphs, or kill Cass by her poisoning an enemy and using her E on them, or get Jhin to himself by getting a Warlord proc and Fourth auto proc.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

That kit sounds very cool to a conventional "Warlock". It could have lots of CC some dots, and have curses that hinder foes. I like the idea of an Anti shield/healing. Where you cast a shield on an enemy for x amount, It cancels all shielded/healed damage and then reduces damage they do or something.

Imperial Japan1 votes

Yeah, playmaking/hard engage supports are pretty good counters. (Thresh, Alistar, Leona)

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Lol Leo or Alistar are the last thing you want to play into Janna or Soraka. They all have multiple nearly surefire ways to ruin your engage and if they still somehow fail they have tools to deny anything you might have gained (shield/heal).

Fargo791 votes

[{quoted}](name=dont stop Niisan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JWr3gTs7,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-11-04T10:34:45.603+0000)

Lol Leo or Alistar are the last thing you want to play into Janna or Soraka. They all have multiple nearly surefire ways to ruin your engage and if they still somehow fail they have tools to deny anything you might have gained (shield/heal).

with a janna maybe.. but a leo into raka is easy as pie.. raka has NO hard CC unless u stand in her silence for the duration to pop.. and when i play leo into a raka its ignite and u engage on the raka and blow her up.. the supports that give me issues as a leo are janna and lulus.. the poke, disengage and protection of the adc are tough...

hhaavviikk1 votes

oh yeah lets lose the game in champion select even harder and add more bandaid fixes

zaire901 votes

You know the fake mage supports are their counters right its why when brand and malz and other shit like that was bot lane enchanters werent having a fun time

Floupi1 votes

[deleted]

RookPusher1 votes

Thanks for reading

xelaker1 votes

making a champ to counter another champ is terrible game design...

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