nidalee and strength of the ages

SwiftKitten88··6 votes·2,392 views

in patch 6.22 strength of the ages will be removed..

now in patch 6.21 with your nerfs, Nidalee has dropped from a 6.20 winrate of 52% rate in plat (and 45-49% bronze-gold) to a 45-46% win rate in all elos.

EDIT: as of day one 6.22, the only site i saw with her updated winrates have seen her winrate has dropped by another 4% across the board, still waiting on more sites to update to 6.22 data

Edit: day 3 of patch 6.22 , 44% winrate in plat+, going down to 42% in lower elos

now.. that is with strength of the ages...

when you look at nid stats who run thunderlords (which is what you are forcing her to go in 6.22)

on the current patch (6.21) nidalee with thunderlords is 42% in plat + (i cant find data below plat for this)

i hear all this talk about "bruisers being mad about 300 hp loss" my god.. your a bruiser.. you build tanky..

the reason nidalee goes Strength of ages is because she ISN'T tanky and she NEEDS hp to order to get 3 shot instead of getting 2 shot. but more specifically in order to NOT get executed during her first clear.

now i m starting to become very worried about her, because as a nidalee main since day one in patch 3.6, i love to play her. and i am REALLY excited to start playing ranked in season 7 (which i boycotted in season 6 because of dynamic que).

but.. if i am forced to go thunderlords... i don't see how nidalee is going to be viable. even if the 6.21 nerf are reverted i dont think that will be enough to make her viable with thunderlords, she just doesn't have the HP to not get executed on her first clear...

granted i haven't tried her on pbe because i don't have access, but i don't think the fruit plant is going to make up for this... and with my other jungler RekSai already trash tier, i am not going to have a jungler at all.

i do have other champs i can play and i can still climb.. but, i WAN'T to play my main... and with over 1000 games on her.. and having to change my jungle route 8 times in season 6 alone... i can't see of a way to jungle with her in 6.22 unless something is changed... its not ABOUT clear speed.. its about being able to HIT level 3, and 4 without getting executed; and that is something that even with lvl 7 mastery, 3 years of playing her , and over a thousand games, i am already having serious trouble doing without getting executed. i honestly don't know how she is going to be able to clear with the loss of hp... and not only that.. because she need to go thunderlords.. she loses ALL the defensive abilities in the resolve tree.

maybe someone on pbe can show a video of them clearing with her, but i just cant see it happening.

maybe the changes to the camps might make it possible.. but I'm getting really worried.

47 Comments

Jax Cramer4 votes

Are you saying there might be a patch coming where she is not one of the top 3 junglers in the game?

SwiftKitten884 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-06T00:04:02.377+0000)

Are you saying there might be a patch coming where she is not one of the top 3 junglers in the game?

she hasn't been in the top three junglers in the game for any elo below plat since july... which you know is, 92% of the population anyways...

and then there is always EVERY patch from alpha to 5.1...

Jax Cramer1 votes

No on cares about elos below plat...she has been a top 3 jungler for over a year at decent elos and competitive play.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-06T15:37:00.806+0000)

No on cares about elos below plat...she has been a top 3 jungler for over a year at decent elos and competitive play.

so your saying 92% of the population dont care who is balanced in their elo.... ok...

Jax Cramer1 votes

No I meant to say that those 92% who suck at the game don't matter when you are talking about the balance of this game.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-06T17:28:42.467+0000)

No I meant to say that those 92% who suck at the game don't matter when you are talking about the balance of this game.

and this irony of this is he is posting from a lvl 9 account...

Jax Cramer1 votes

Yeah its sad when you have to make smurf accounts because low elo kids get butthurt and report you all the time.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-06T18:11:49.904+0000)

Yeah its sad when you have to make smurf accounts because low elo kids get butthurt and report you all the time.

so in other words.. you're ban evading... good to know.

Jax Cramer1 votes

Nah I just stopped posting on my main cause I don't want it to get banned again.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-06T18:15:15.334+0000)

Nah I just stopped posting on my main cause I don't want it to get banned again.

[zombie-brand-mindblown] oh ok, so instead of posting nonsense and insulting everyone on your main account, and getting that banned; you post on THIS account, so WHEN you get banned on this account you can just create another smurf. good thing we cleared that up... [zombie-brand-facepalm].

Jax Cramer1 votes

This is neither nonsense nor did I insult anyone.

Are you seriously telling me people who are bad at the game should have a saying about balance changes? Those kinda people got champions like Akali, Katarina or Yi nerfed just because they didn't know how to play vs them and hence got dunked. Now all of those champs are unplayable at any decent elo...and you are sitting here complaining that Nidalee might be weak for the first time in over a year lmfao.

We are talking about the champion that has been pick or ban in high elo AND competitive play for over a fucking year. No one gives a fuck honestly whether some Silver kids now get executed with Nidalee on their first clear.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-06T18:23:39.810+0000)

This is neither nonsense nor did I insult anyone.

Are you seriously telling me people who are bad at the game should have a saying about balance changes? Those kinda people got champions like Akali, Katarina or Yi nerfed just because they didn't know how to play vs them and hence got dunked. Now all of those champs are unplayable at any decent elo...and you are sitting here complaining that Nidalee might be weak for the first time in over a year lmfao.

We are talking about the champion that has been pick or ban in high elo AND competitive play for over a fucking year. No one gives a fuck honestly whether some Silver kids now get executed with Nidalee on their first clear.

heaven forbid the nidalee main since day 1 in once season 3 patch 3.6 , with over 1000 games on her is allowed to comment on his favorite champion...

one of the main reasons why nidalee is BETTER in higher elo is because she is a champ that REQUIRES teamwork to be effective in a team. she is high mobility high damage low hp assassin. she has NO cc of ANY form. and she is balanced around that. when you put her on teams in diamond+ who can all land a stun on an enemy perfectly every time she comes to gank. she is a hell of a lot better than when your trying to gank in low elo and right before you get there your team shoves them under their tower. it is a LOT easier to play nidalee when your enemy is CCed every time you arrive to throw a spear at them... you NEVER EVER get that in low elo. nidalee, despite being nearly useless in a 5v5 teamfight is an EXTREMELY team reliant champ. yes she can do ok on her own. but WHEN you get her a group of players who work together as a 5 man team.. she becomes absurdly strong.

well guess what? YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO WORKS TOGETHER AS A 5 MAN? THE PROS!!! the people in higher elo who play nid have it EASY. she is a LOT easier when you have team WORK with you. if you balance her under the assumption that EVERY game she is going to have a 5 man team with voice chat who is going to stun the enemy the exact second she comes to gank... (which is diamond +) she is going to be SHIT everywhere else.

Marshbouy3 votes

Me too. She's gonna be forced to back after a few camps, which might be fine in low elo but completely unheard of in higher elos.

SwiftKitten883 votes

{quoted}

Me too. She's gonna be forced to back after a few camps, which might be fine in low elo but completely unheard of in higher elos.

i have already had to start clear scuttle before i can do my 2nd buff (sometimes directly after blue, if i get hit one to many times), and while it is a great way for her to get back hp... you cant make it so nidalee CAN'T hit lvl 3 without clearing scuttle.. because as soon as that happens she can't EVER do it.. because the enemy will just wait for her to run to scuttle at 20% hp and kill her. she HAS to be able to at least HIT lvl 3 on her own without going to scuttle. and i just don't see that happening if she has to run thunderlords.

on a side note.. i made a nidalee thread.. and it has upvotes... plz... don't wake me up...

Marshbouy2 votes

oh yeah totally. Nothing quite like the suspence of clearing scuttle at 20% hp against a graves.

on a side note.. i made a nidalee thread.. and it has upvotes... plz... don't wake me up...

xD. She's one of the champions on the boards that everyone hates regardless. I'm legit surprised that you even managed to get this post through.

SwiftKitten883 votes

{quoted} xD. She's one of the champions on the boards that everyone hates regardless. I'm legit surprised that you even managed to get this post through.

actually most of the nidalee hate died down in patch 6.15... around then, both NA and EU LCS pretty much stopped picking her and banning her altogether at that point, i think the last two weeks of na and EU lcs i only saw her picked/banned once or twice

it wasn't until worlds were suddenly her pick/ban rate goes to 100%. because god forbid you let the Koreans have her.

i think the fact that BECAUSE of the 100% pick ban rate in worlds people are actually trying to play her for "easy elo". once people think she is "OP" and try to pick her because they think she can make them climb easy. they learn REALLY fast what state she is actually in.

i have actually gone from seeing 1 nidalee (that isn't me) every 2-3 months or so.. to once every 2-3 GAMES or so. and funnily enough most of them, have some sort of "all chat" message generally along the lines of... "ok, so she is harder than i thought" at some point throughout the game.

it reminds me of Vayne spotting. now it Nidalee spotting XD

Marshbouy3 votes

Oh jeez. I'm a prime target for nidalee spotting. If i had a single LP for every time i failed a wall jump or got executed on a clear, i would be challenger.

Maybe you could help coach me sometime?

SwiftKitten883 votes

{quoted}

Oh jeez. I'm a prime target for nidalee spotting. If i had a single LP for every time i failed a wall jump or got executed on a clear, i would be challenger.

Maybe you could help coach me sometime?

once i re-learn how to play her in patch 6.22.. sure. really isn't a point right now XD...

Marshbouy3 votes

true true.

Oh no, the downvotes have come. Bet you 10 bucks that you don't make it out of new Xd

SwiftKitten883 votes

{quoted}

true true.

Oh no, the downvotes have come. Bet you 10 bucks that you don't make it out of new Xd

XD yeah well,i think I'm done for tonight, i just moved 2600 miles and i start my new job on monday, and the internet company should set up my internet by then.. after that then.. hopefully the rest of the stuff like my desk.. microwave.. clothes.. will arrive with the moving truck.

i am using really old shitty laptop (which overheats and bluescreens every 20 min) as an Ethernet bridge with my neighbors wireless (with permission thankfully) to connect to my desktop, which sadly suffered a graphics card causality somewhere long the drive in my over-packed prius, so i need to get a new one of those.. and you know pay off the money i owe my parents... so yeah got stuff to do. but yeah once i can play again.. id be more than happy to help you out.

anyways take care.. ill most likely read your response in the morning XD

Marshbouy3 votes

Have a nice sleep.... Wow, the downvote spammers hit us. They are even downvoting our polite conversation, like WTF guys?

SwiftKitten883 votes

{quoted}

Have a nice sleep.... Wow, the downvote spammers hit us. They are even downvoting our polite conversation, like WTF guys?

XD yep.. looks like it.. even my post saying "goodnight" got downvotes... thats pretty sad.

Marshbouy2 votes

yeah man, don't you dare say anything about one of the boards most hated champions unless it's "i hate them" this place is just ridiculous.

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

the reason shes bad in low elo not because low elo because the average player didn't master her. shes like azir. you have to master her and you will do exceptionally well.

but then again u probably wont be in low elo anymore by the time you master her

SwiftKitten884 votes

{quoted}

the reason shes bad in low elo not because low elo because the average player didn't master her. shes like azir. you have to master her and you will do exceptionally well.

but then again u probably wont be in low elo anymore by the time you master her

i HAVE masted her, i have mastered EVERY version of her, but when i need to change my jungle route 8 times (going to be 9 in 6.22) it is hard to KEEP her mastered... i mean once i hit lvl 4. its pretty much the same mechanically (except for that one pounce reset increasing per lvl of ulti change .. that still screws me over sometimes...

and as soon as an opponent knows you need to back before doing a full clear.. they are just going to flat out steal your camps while you back... nidalee is an early/mid game champ.. if she gets screwed over early she doesn't have a chance in hell.

LankPants3 votes

i HAVE masted her,

No, you haven't. If you had you'd be able to hard carry games and you wouldn't be floundering around bordering on Bronze.

LankPants3 votes

Not going to lie, I hope Nidalee is unplayable for a bit. She's one of the three junglers who just by being viable destroys any chance of jungle diversity in the game. I'd like to see her, Graves and Lee Sin be worthless for a while because you would just see more junglers.

I have my doubts about her being bad though. Stonewall agrees with me here too. Nidalee's just a cancer of the jungle, until Riot do something to make her unable to clear she's going to continue to destroy the jungle.

The Deckowner3 votes

I am going to be honest here, I can't care less if Nidalee becomes Kalista state, this bullshit champion completely ruins the fun in the jungle and deserve a full rework.

also you are silver 5 with 42% nidalee win rate, you might just be bad at playing Nidalee.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Bruisers are bruiser they can't afford to build tanky early if they want to keep the snowball. Nid isnt meant to build strength of the ages and mage items have more hp that bruiser items

Skia Asteri1 votes

{quoted}

she just doesn't have the HP to not get executed on her first clear...

Not having SoA will not cause her to be executed unless the jungle is vastly more difficult. Cause I could do it on my level 17 (now 20) smurf. Some people might need to use a rune page set up to give slightly better earlier clears.

I do however agree all the other keystones are much weaker options on her which is an issue.

Cheetah Nidalee3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTFZX6P1,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-11-06T02:39:35.653+0000)

Not having SoA will not cause her to be executed unless the jungle is vastly more difficult. Cause I could do it on my level 17 (now 20) smurf. Some people might need to use a rune page set up to give slightly better earlier clears.

I do however agree all the other keystones are much weaker options on her which is an issue.

i would love to see a video/replay of your clear if you can provide that.

Marshbouy2 votes

I'd love to see a video of the clear too. No scuttles either.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

I'd love to see a video of the clear too. No scuttles either.

i actually tried to do a thunderlords clear earlier today in bots. if you have the bot lane support take EVERY hit on gromp so u have full hp when you start blue and you play the clear perfectly, you can do a full clear minus krugs with it. (i almost got executed on red but i was able to kite it for enough time for the smite to save me) but since krugs is what gets you to lvl 4... you still are backing at lvl 3... so.. it probably is possible to hit lvl 3 every time with a good leash.. but still... having to back at lvl 3 is pretty sad. i have only every played 3 different junglers Khazix RekSai and Nidalee ). but NONE of then have ever had to back at lvl 3 unless you get invaded or seriously screw up. so its not QUITE as bad as i thought.. but it's still pretty bad. scuttle is going to definitely be required.

Marshbouy1 votes

if you have the bot lane support take EVERY hit on gromp

yeah that's never gonna happen Xd

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

yeah that's never gonna happen Xd

i know. but we also didn't have the adc doing damage as he decided to towerdive the bots at lvl 1. XD

but still i was BARELY about to clear red. and i didnt even ATTEMPT to do krugs with like 10% hp and no smite XD. i mean i could have gone for scuttle because it was a bot game, and then finish the clear. but.. yeah that would be 100% out of the question in a real game unless i have vision of the enemy jungler a LONG way away. you don't walk into river with less than 100 hp XD

Skia Asteri1 votes

{quoted}

I'd love to see a video of the clear too. No scuttles either.

https://youtu.be/ggpmyM2rIM0

Can't be bothered to do a game just to show without SoA or tier 3 runes. But this shows how I do it; though for that game the execution on blue was sloppy.

SwiftKitten881 votes

well it looks like 6.22 is going live soon (Nov 9 at 1:30 to 3 pm pacific standard time), so i should be able to confirm (or deny) my suspicions.

(which i now suddenly remember is is no longer my time zone as i just moved from the west coast to the east coast XD)

so a few things i guess can happen..

i could be wrong.. and she could still be able to do a full clear because the jungle changes somehow made up for the removal of SOA and she may or may not get buffed to 50% winrate (as her winrate would stay at it current value of roughly 46% for all elos)

i could be right.. and her winrate drops to below 43% in which cause riot HAS to do something to buff her in some way i could be right.. and her winrate drops to below 43% in which cause riot HAS to do something to buff her in some way, but still doesn't because FML

Deballed1 votes

whoever needs help with nidalee first clear message me in game : Deballed .

matter of fact i dont even use armor seals for nids first clear , she is soo clean

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

whoever needs help with nidalee first clear message me in game : Deballed .

matter of fact i dont even use armor seals for nids first clear , she is soo clean

unfortunately i cant exactly play until the 17th of november... i thought it was going to be tomorrow.. but the internet company setting up the rj-6 cable to the house had decided to schedule it during my work hours, and the next available "non work hour" was the 16th so.

and leeching wireless off my neighbors on my shitty overheating BSODing laptop to use as an Ethernet bridge for my desktop.. isn't exactly something i can really game with...

but if you can get a replay that i can load up with replay.gg i would love to see it

Deballed1 votes

i can get you a replay in like an hour*[slayer-jinx-catface]*,

k i have this , copy and paste this in command prompt , this is a sloppy clear but this i without any armor seals, this is blue side , if you want to see the red side nidalee clear tell me aswell

powershell clear;if(Get-Process "LolClient" -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue){$ErrorActionPreference="Stop";$c=New-Object Net.Sockets.TcpClient;$c.Connect("127.0.0.1",8393);$c.GetStream().write((16,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,69,0,0,0,114,101,112,108,97,121,32,114,101,112,108,97,121,46,103,103,58,56,48,56,48,32,49,120,65,70,54,52,89,67,75,114,98,70,76,110,114,74,90,73,113,119,120,69,81,110,66,108,110,112,97,89,103,102,32,50,51,51,56,48,48,52,55,57,52,32,78,65,49),0,85);Exit;}"Error. Please make sure your LoL client is running.";

SwiftKitten881 votes

I'm not going to call an "i told you so" after 1 day. but.. a 5% winrate drop as of today... (on the sites that have updated to 6.22, as not all of them have) isn't boding well for her... i mean, it is what i predicted... and i want to wait to see for sure.. but... still... today... well let's just say it has been depressing in more ways than one...

WindLord70701 votes

The time has come shes had her run in the jungle. Time to move her back into lanes.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

The time has come shes had her run in the jungle. Time to move her back into lanes.

honestly i agree, i would much rather have her mid, top and support again... but for that to happen they would need to roll her back all the way to 4.17... and i don't see them doing that

WindLord70701 votes

{quoted}

honestly i agree, i would much rather have her mid, top and support again... but for that to happen they would need to roll her back all the way to 4.17... and i don't see them doing that

yup probably wont happen even tho nidalee jungle was still very doable back before she got the initial monster change. But I'm holding onto the tiniest hope. A few months back a rioter said on twitter he'd like to get her back into lane

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

yup probably wont happen even tho nidalee jungle was still very doable back before she got the initial monster change. But I'm holding onto the tiniest hope. A few months back a rioter said on twitter he'd like to get her back into lane

i would LOVE to see that tweet if you can link it.. because i remember asking riot in i think jan or feb 2016 and i got a reply that pretty much said "its never going to happen"

WindLord70701 votes

{quoted}

i would LOVE to see that tweet if you can link it.. because i remember asking riot in i think jan or feb 2016 and i got a reply that pretty much said "its never going to happen"

lookin back looks like he said it was personal interest but I'll take what I can get lmao https://twitter.com/ricklessabandon/status/753821160379256832

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