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What Meta people would like to play?

Ahristocats··5 votes·835 views

5 months ago we had a "everyone oneshot everyone" meta, burst mages+lethality assassin and non-lethality assassin like shaco+ ap assassin like Ahri Fizz Katarina Leblanc + divers like Hecarim Vi Camille were rulling everyone supports were bust mages too, zyra/brand/malz and karma was the only non-burst mage sup, thresh was somewhat viable too but inferior to them Tanks were champions able to 100-0 you in 5 sec poppy/nautilus/maokai ADC were building lethality to burst, MF/jhin/varus while being 2 screens away from you, and you also had ziggs who could remove half of your hp with an ult Toplane had only lethality users if we don't count the assassin tanks, quinn and jayce were IMPOSSIBLE to play against, jayce killed you in 1 sec, quinn with literally E+AA, riven and renekton were viable due to lethality and they killed you in 1 or 2 sec too

Now we have the complete opposite and people ARE STILL COMPLAINING

the meta shifted to less burst, more strategic teamfight, you can't oneshot anymore we have more than 3 viable marksmen, believe it or not but you COULD NOT play something else than varus/mf/jhin, except maybe cait now you can play jhin/varus/kalista/tristana/cait/draven/twitch/xayah/jinx/lucian/ashe/kog/mf Support role has no unviable pick, all of them are great, some just have a clearer niche like morgana and should only be used in some situation

you say that "everything revolves around marksmen" but Jungle has also DPS champions like elise/warwick/rek'sai Toplane's most powerful pick is fiora who has nothing to do with marksmen Blitzcrank in the support role knows a huge success, and he's one of the support who has the least protection for an adc

if you don't want something like "everyone oneshot everyone", but you also don't want this meta of long duration teamfight then what the hell do you want?

my view on this is clear: WE CANNOT EXPRESS OUR SKILL IF PEOPLE DIE TOO QUICKLY remember Jhin ? "death should never be quick"

if teamfights end in a second, you cannot try to be better than other people at positioning, decision making, target selection, kiting, and all of this stuff doesn't matter because you pick a burst champion bring him in the support role, adc role, wherever and just use 4 spells

hopefully, riot leaves the game like that

55 Comments

Lauchmelder8 votes

To answer that question: A balanced meta.

  • Tanks are strong but not unkillable

  • Mages only can oneshot when ahead but offer waveclear and CC/utility when even or behind.

  • Assassins (imo a design failure but that's not part of the discussion) should have burst and great kill pressure but no CC and bad waveclear

  • Supports have decent itemization without getting OP ones

  • ADCs deal consistent damage, have little survivability when getting jumped, don't burst

Tanks and supports beat assassins and mages

Mages and Assassins beat ADCs

Assassins beat mages but mages also beat assassins

ADCs beat tanks

Evil Yasuo1 votes

Mine would be if you build tank then you can't 1 shot people (garen and nasus)

oSEXYPLATYPUSo7 votes

but they arent tanks they are juggernauts

and they have clear weakness... dps/kiting/cc

if you kite and cc them and dps they die they dont one shot anything

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

How df bad you doin' that Garen is 'one-shotting' you?

Seriously, literally 100% of his damage is in the melee range and the majority is in his spin.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

So Mages can :

  • OS :
  • wave clear
  • bring cc

But shouldn't have cc nor wave clear...

Tanks and supports beat assassins and mages

Mages and Assassins beat ADCs

Assassins beat mages but mages also beat assassins

ADCs beat tanks

Where are Juggernauts & Divers ?

Lauchmelder1 votes

I think there's a word missing (probably meant assassins I guess).

Yes, mages should be able to do all of this. They pay for it by not being able to 100-0 someone unless they are ahead. Assassins don't need to be ahead to do it as it's their only Job to kill a high priority target.

I left out Juggernauts and Divers on purpose for 2 reasons:

  1. I don't care about this fancy class system. It's annoying simply because people will always go "x is not a tank, it's a juggernaut". More often than not it's not helping the discussion and makes the one calling it out look like a smartass.

  2. If I include every class and subclass I'd be sitting here until next week.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

yeah was assassins^^

Yes, mages should be able to do all of this. They pay for it by not being able to 100-0 someone unless they are ahead. Assassins don't need to be ahead to do it as it's their only Job to kill a high priority target.

After thinking, i agree with u. Atm my main concern are adc whose burst per sec.

  1. I don't care about this fancy class system. It's annoying simply because people will always go "x is not a tank, it's a juggernaut". More often than not it's not helping the discussion and makes the one calling it out look like a smartass.

yeah true^^

i cant move wtf1 votes

How do you make something good at killing tanks but not assassins and mages? ADC's shoot nerf darts when they attack anything else?

Lauchmelder1 votes

Kill priority. If the fed mage or assassin gets to your ADC he's dead.

i cant move wtf1 votes

But if an ADC can deal enough damage to shred a tank, how do they not burst a squishy assassin or mage even faster?

Lauchmelder1 votes

By doing consistent damage. It should take an ADC more than just a few seconds to kill the tank.

The tank has to have a lot of CC to be a threat to the ADC so he doesn't get ignored.

Obviously the ADC will kill squishier targets faster unless we get an ADC damage rework which makes AAs on them scale on enemy HP. More HP -> more damage (reduced by armor and MR), less HP -> less damage

i cant move wtf1 votes

How do you justify that from a thematic standpoint? The bullets are magic so they know how much health the enemy has that they're hitting? How do you stop your vision of how league should be balanced from becoming essentially rock/paper/scissors and being determined in champ select?

Lauchmelder1 votes

The game SHOULD be rock/paper/scissors. All components make for a balanced game. If only rock and paper are strong it's unfair for scissors etc.

i cant move wtf1 votes

If you follow too closely to that formula the game becomes too predictable at champ select, which I think is boring. I'd rather see complex champions that have unique abilities that aren't easily quantifiable as belonging to any one class.

Rexxiee3 votes

The meta where my mains are top tier.

Ahristocats1 votes

well concerning you that's not new

Rexxiee1 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPnLfKQG,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-07-04T18:16:44.145+0000)

well concerning you that's not new

I wasant being completely serious tbh, i prefer when they are viable but thats just fine, some champs i'll play them regardless their state, yes i played caitlyn even when she had 45% win rate right after rework when her traps had 0 base damage.

Ive always played this game for the champs i like, not for the meta slaves.

I like the meta but draven is just stupid, if he + thresh got nerfed bot lane would be fun (draven makes champs like jinx a complete gamble since they cant lane against him and if he gets 1 kill its game over).

l Helios l3 votes

I just want games to feel like they won't be decided in the first 10 minutes. Not sure how ti make that happen, but that's me.

rework trundle2 votes

Why not just reduce overall damage dealt by ~25%?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

then wouldnt the shield meta be even stronger?

it has been a damage meta for a while... people cried about damage creep ( it started around season 6 with the new masteries ) so now we have "over buffed" shields now people cry that X support shields Y adc for 2000 effective HP this happen cuz of people crying about the amount of damage

we remove damage by 25% as you suggest it just makes that shield indirectly stronger by having less damage to "break through " the shield

everything change has ripple effects and it forever snowballs ...

its kinda like that paradox if you go back in time and stepped on a bug it creates a rip through the time/space vortex and when you come back to current time everything is completely different

rework trundle1 votes

I see what you mean. I didn't think this through. Reducing overall damage dealt implies that many champions will be much stronger (durable champs who become stronger as the fight goes : Trundle, Darius for example) and a lot will be weaker (every assassin).

For your paradox, I guess you watch Family Guy as well? :p

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

yes i watch family guy but that isnt who came up with that paradox... they just rehashed it just like everything is now

rework trundle1 votes

. Here goes my lack of culture again

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

alot of that has to do with age...

i dont know your age but im a willing to bet im older

rework trundle1 votes

17 From 8 to 15 I watched less than 5 movies, including TV shows.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

hmm i graduated highschool in 2001 just to give you and idea lol

http://imgur.com/1AsXxcu

Big Lincoln2 votes

juggernaut meta where juggs are carries and not shittier tanks late game

that would be good for me tbh desu, death to marksmen

Evil Yasuo2 votes

I fucking loved when duskblade first came out.

Sir Fuzzi2 votes

How about a meta that isn't defined entirely by one class? Right now 'protect the Koggles' is just 'protect the ADC' because they're going to do the thing for your team.

I'd like a meta that is less about 'good and bad picks,' and more about the construct of the teamwork and map awareness in the game. Given each champion interacts with these differently, it should feel good and rewarding to pick into 'off-meta' and have it work more.

The problem here is the item system is like another separate game to balance.

Penns1 votes

Why not better at positioning tho? Positioning means more when you would get oneshot than when it doesnt matter anyway because you get like 50% dmg reduction and 5k HP as Draven without any life steal.

Ahristocats2 votes

Draven is an issue on its own

positioning matters because if you're in a bad position 50% damage reduction won't be enough to make you survive ADCS have 1800 hp in average, or 1400 in mid game if the enemy adc and enemy mages are damaging you due to a bad position, you will receive more than 4k damage and 50% damage reduction won't do shit

Penns1 votes

But then theres like 400 Lulu shield, 700 lulu ult, 800 Redemption and 500 or whatever Locket. https://puu.sh/wymok/bcb6caf8e0.webm cant even burst the Draven without peel on my own with 2 1/2 items lel

Ahristocats2 votes

LOL what did you expect?

fizz building zhonya and ninja tabi able to burst draven?

Penns1 votes

Burst a 0 MR and 0 HP Draven? Yes. And I wouldve if DD didnt get buffed.. or if he didnt use heal lol.

Ahristocats4 votes

well next time build something like morello and lichbane and you might be able to

Penns2 votes

Fizz cant do anything without Zhonyas in teamfights and Proto > Lich Bane. Theres a reason his ap scalings are so high, he cant just build item 3165 item 3285 like mages.

If you get hit by max range ult, Protobelt, W crit and everything else and still survive as 0 peel Draven with 0 Mr or HP items, thats not the meta I want to play in xd

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

Fizz cant do anything without Zhonyas in teamfights and Proto > Lich Bane. Theres a reason his ap scalings are so high, he cant just build item 3165 item 3285 like mages.

If you get hit by max range ult, Protobelt, W crit and everything else and still survive as 0 peel Draven with 0 Mr or HP items, thats not the meta I want to play in xd

You should get both proto and lich bane.

If you have to give up 1 of them give up proto, lich is just too necessary or his damage is too low, hourglass is important but first you need to get damage, it doesnt matter if you can survive a bit longer if you cant kill anything anyway so you're useless.

Penns1 votes

I meant Proto > Lich as first item most of the time, it makes you harder to oneshot, Revolver is a better powerspike and its a lot cheaper. If the game is fast Id rather get Zhonyas second because without it youre fked in teamfights.

Darkdemon6532 votes

{quoted}

Burst a 0 MR and 0 HP Draven? Yes. And I wouldve if DD didnt get buffed.. or if he didnt use heal lol.

He had 51 MR. You definitely didn't have 51 MPen. You also had Hourglass, Tabi, Sheen, and Protobelt. Those aren't exactly high damage items for one rotation of abilities. And to top it all off, it was a 1v3. You absolutely should not be able to win a 1v3, especially considering that Draven had 2k more gold worth of items than you.

Penns1 votes

0 MR from items like Maw or QSS. And killing the squishy carry as assassin that hit his skillshot isnt winning a 1v3. The plan was to kill Draven, Zhonyas and flash out over the wall. Then I realized he takes no damage and my flash wasnt up xd

Darkdemon6531 votes

{quoted}

0 MR from items like Maw or QSS. And killing the squishy carry as assassin that hit his skillshot isnt winning a 1v3. The plan was to kill Draven, Zhonyas and flash out over the wall. Then I realized he takes no damage and my flash wasnt up xd

Getting three people to use their time and abilities on one person only to have that one person still get a kill is definitely winning.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

personally i want a meta where nothing you do matters and everyone dies at the end. we'll call it mass effect 3 meta.

jk. i want to see

runes and masteries completely removed. and in it's place i want to see

15 offensive and 15 defensive keystones. 30 keystones total. you choose 3 and only 1 from each pair. every 2 levels you unlock a new pair of keystones.

next i want to see the original 6 classes defined and organized into defensive, offensive, and balance categories. totaling 18 categories.

after that i want to see summoner spells more defined into 3 categories. movement, offense, defense. you get 2 and only 1 of each type.

i'd like to see all of the base stats have a single item represent the stat and then that item be combined with another item to make a new item up to three times. so base, tier 1, tier 2. unique passives/actives would only be on tier 2 items. there would be 3 types of trinkets - vision, jungle, and potions with a few varieties to choose from and their own upgrade paths. support items would be vision trinkets. all trinkets would mirror the current support items quest theme

items would have 3 distinct appearances - offensive which would take the form of weapons, defensive which would take the form of armor, and balanced which would take the form of jewelry and accessories. so that new players and old players alike could know from a glance what an item does. boots will stay boots. trinkets would be objects.

Ahristocats1 votes

that's not related to meta tho

KoKoboto1 votes

Season 3/4 but instead of replacing problems with new ones they actually go and fix them.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

if you don't want something like "everyone oneshot everyone", but you also don't want this meta of long duration teamfight

long duration... i don't see any duration against item 3031 users.

Tbh i don't care about meta most of time, im always out meta. But i m not fond of tank meta.

FIREHIVE1 votes

Riven with a blackcleaver and deathdance can deal 700 dmg on ult , you tellin' me you can;t oneshot anymore? Lb oneshotes you with 2 chains only with morelo...what is that nonsense you're talking about.

Ahristocats1 votes

if she oneshots you with 2 chains

that's not a oneshot same for riven

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

I like the fact that I can play control mages now.

l Helios l1 votes

Here's my problem with people's opinions: they're always super wishy washy. It's why I find it hard to respect most opinions I read unless someone explains their position really really well.

Sintama1 votes

We need a LeeSin Nidalee meta. #FlashyPlays. No, I'm trolling. I'd like a sustained meta. Like, slightly less burst, more control in the outcome of the game.

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