"You're over extended, I can't gank your lane!!"

HateDaddy··5 votes·1,363 views

This line triggers me so much.

For starters, some champions are naturally just pushing machines and rely on constantly shoving. Not to mention, shoving your laner under tower is the best way to keep them pressured and prevent them from roaming.

Secondly, if you see a lane overextended with no vision, there's a good chance the enemy jungler is going to be there. There's no excusing lack of vision so long as trinkets are up but they're not always up either. Counter ganking is one of the best ways to win games as a jungler and waiting for someone to overextend on the enemy team is also the worst way to attempt to gank. Dives, lane ganks and even just showing up in the middle of a fight will consistently have higher success rates.

So please, understand that at some point in the game, you have to take towers and that's going to require pushing pretty hard. Maybe in RiceCake Elo, this idea of never pushing and all going mid for ARAM for 50 minutes is meta but in semi component elos, players push to force advantages. And as a jungler, these are the easiest lanes to gank because you can control vision, dive and have the most predictable counter ganks to setup.

And let me stress one more time: trinkets do have down time and you can't ward everything.

12 Comments

Astôlfo5 votes

Uh, yeah, except, if you want a gank and they're not low enough for a tower dive, it's a stupid idea to do so. That's why you'd back off for a bit. Unless the jungler is playing someone who can gank down the lane like Hecarim for instance and just knock them away altogether.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Uh, yeah, except, if you want a gank and they're not low enough for a tower dive, it's a stupid idea to do so. That's why you'd back off for a bit. Unless the jungler is playing someone who can gank down the lane like Hecarim for instance and just knock them away altogether.

Why are they not low? Harassing under tower is a thing.

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh because if you're close enough to auto, you'll probably get hit by the turret. If you're not close enough to auto, it's probably a skillshot. There's this thing called dodging skillshots.

Slack King2 votes

{quoted}

Why are they not low? Harassing under tower is a thing.

Youre right and wrong at the same time. Harassing someone under tower doesnt always amount to much. If anything at all

I also understand that warding isnt as effective as it once was, as well as junglers not actually needing to enter from river

Yet junglers do tend to overlook a pushed lane, most dont see that a vital target for an enemy is a beacon for them to be on that side of the map

Raven Elizabeth3 votes

Any champ can relax and not push and still be successful. you cant expect a jungler who might not be able to dive turret to gank when you are pushed.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raven Elizabeth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JE7Uv3Vn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-02T21:48:30.360+0000)

Any champ can relax and not push and still be successful. you cant expect a jungler who might not be able to dive turret to gank when you are pushed.

Just like you can't help but push lanes. Many champions naturally shove based on their play patterns.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raven Elizabeth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JE7Uv3Vn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-02T21:48:30.360+0000)

Any champ can relax and not push and still be successful. you cant expect a jungler who might not be able to dive turret to gank when you are pushed.

I disagree with this.

You don't necessarily have to push, but relaxing isn't an option on a lot of lane bullies / early game champions.

I play a lot of Quinn top. I need to constantly pressure my opponent. Whether that be attacking him a lot early and zoning him from the creep wave, or crashing waves in to his tower so he misses CS while I poke him under tower, I don't care; both tactics work and they work well. Well, at least until the enemy jungler ganks, sees I had vision because I avoided it, then comes back a minute later knowing my trinket HAS to be gone and on cooldown because it's a 180sec cooldown on a 60 sec ward... If I can't harass my lane opponent when my trinket is down, AKA 66.7% of the time, then my champion pick is pretty useless. Most melee champions are going to outscale me if I don't beat them early.

Although to be fair, I typically have my lane opponent at tower-divable HP from about the 3min point onwards. Most of the time I have them low enough that I could even kill them under tower solo but I'd have to trade my own certain death for it and there's the chance they could outplay - so I'd rather not. So my problem is junglers not willing to tower-dive when it's the right thing to do more than anything.

Meep Man3 votes

You can't gank a lane when it is pushed up unless you plan to countergank, which requires vision to be made sure it isn't a waste of time and resources. The reason you can't gank a lane is because the enemy champion will just flee under their tower and it will be a waste of time and allow the enemy team to know where your jungler is so they can make riskier plays during that time. Showing your face as a Jungler is something you must not take lightly since lanes are constantly under pressure of not knowing where you are. It's like always having a champion MIA. Once you know where they are, it is a lot easier to make a risky play.

Yes We Cancer2 votes

If you expect me to towerdive with shaco i hope you bring an assload of cc with you.

Dediguise2 votes

I usually agree with your posts, but not so much with this one. I'm not saying that you're always wrong, but more often than not it's not worth ganking pushed lanes.

With top lane there are a ton of champs that excel at 2v1 situations Gangplank Darius Renekton etc. Tower diving them is difficult and dangerous.

Ganking bot lane is hard enough due to the fact that they have a dedicated ward bot. If your team can't control vision it's difficult to even gank normally let alone tower dive. And a 3v2 advantage is a lot less than a 2v1 advantage in combat.

Which leaves midlane, where you are most likely to get counter ganked.

But I do agree that if a lane is pushed the jungler should at least stay in that side of the jungle in order to be able to countergank. I even place deep wards for my laner if I'm not going to be there. But if you are bullying and stomping lane that effectively why should I worry about your lane? Especially if another lane is struggling or going even.

Marshbouy1 votes

"your under the enemies turret" "yeah so what gank the shen anyway, your a half health master udyr, you can handle it"

Calabok1 votes

It's ok, your 3 man death from that level 5 tower dive wasn't so bad...

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