No Jayce or Kennen nerfs on PBE yet
Lol
38 Comments
ItsOrval4 votesWhy would Jayce get a nerf?
ItsOrval5 votesNo seriously.. I main Jayce and I dont know what he would need nerfed. The only thing I see that would need to be nerfed is Youmuus & Maw (Jayces Core), which is happening next season. So your problem is solved. Jayce's kit is already fine, its just the Armor pen items that make him seem God tier.
People even say Jayce is a champ that takes a long time to master, even pros cant master him. Only one person has been able to fully master Jayce, and whenever he wanted to play Jayce, hed get banned because people knew how stupid he was with him. Its probably the hardest champ to learn in this game, and I have over 300k mastery points in him, and I definitely have not mastered him.
He loses all his mana after using Q 3 times (Unless you get 
, but thats what underpowered Jayce players build). You really have to focus on maintaining your mana, and if you build full Armor pen, then you are at risk of losing due to not having enough tanks on the team. Jayce is balanced, its just the armor pen items that make him op. And some of the item's armor penetration is going to be taken away next season, and if they are not taken away, then it will be a bad item on Jayce (
for instance will be more suitable on a stealth champ, not Jayce, 
will lose its attack speed buff).
GULAG 4 U3 votesMaybe beacuse like, I don't know, he's a ranged top that punishes you for going melee on him with burst and bullshit amounts of poke? I don't really know....
ItsOrval5 votesOh ok, you must want to nerf these champs as well.
Because theyre ranged and go top as well. OR, instead of crying and trying to find the easy way out, you can actually use your head in the game your playing to use some mechanics. Such as sitting in a brush, and coming out to attack if the enemy comes to close. "But Orval, they will just ward the bush you idiot." Good, they wasted a ward on a brush, you have 2 others you can sit in, and now river isnt warded so your jungler will get an easy gank.
Quit playing like every game is suppose to be easy farm, and actually come up with a strategy. Jesus kids in this game want it to be easy mode.
GULAG 4 U3 votesI'm not going to use the "You main jayce" Argument against you because i think that shit is for pussies that can't make a point. I won't downvote you neither because that's also for pussies.
Gnar has a jump with MS. I know I'm not supposed to engage when his fury bar is up. Kayle doesn't need a nerf, just because I said jayce punishes you for being melee on him it doesn't mean I'm saying kayle needs to be nerfed. My point was, A RANGED TOP'S WEAKNESS SHOULD BE YOU GETTING CLOSE. BUT, the problem is Ranged tops (excluding kayle) simply HAVE too many ways to keep you off them unless you're playing Yasuo/Pantheon/Riven/Fiora.
Also Skillcap is a not a weakness. It's just a gimmick that makes a champion more worth learning than other ones.
ItsOrval4 votesSo it sounds to me you are playing out of meta champs top lane and/or just dont know how to counter a Jayce. In that case, its your fault. Like many player on League, they try to blame a champ for being stupid op when they chose champs that are out of meta, or that Jayce counters, and have no clue of their opponents mechanics.
To counter a Jayce, you simply need to have sustain. 
is the most popular melee champ, hes outdated today but a good garen can win against Jayce. Jayce has long cooldowns, no sustain in mana (Unless he builds tear which makes him do less damage), low hp, low armor (Yes even in hammer mode), and slow attack speed. A good Garen, can simply harass Jayce, go back in brush, heal, harass Jayce even more, win lane. Same with Darius, the brushes arent there for decoration. Use them.
GULAG 4 U1 votesI do play yi top (not meta), jax top and mordekaiser top and mostly jungle. You are right, I don't how to play against Jayce very well, so advice would be nice. But, neverless, no ranged champion should be able to outrade melee one at melee range unless they are fed. Sustain again Jayce does work, it's not like I enjoy playing tryndamere nor aatrox a lot.
ItsOrval3 votesMorde should work pretty well against jayce if youre good with him. If you master Q first instead of shield then youre playing morde wrong against Jayce.
Jayce relies on his abilities, his attack speed is about .64 - .84 (level 10), level 18 is about 1.04 as. So if you see a Jayce miss his Q+E on his cannon mode, then that would be a good time to engage. When you engage, he will most likely switch to hammer and E you away. At that point his mana will be at less than half, thus he either gets bullied out of lane, or he backs.
GULAG 4 U1 votesGreat, I'm glad we are having a healthy discussion right now without the need to pitching downvotes like candy @halloween. Thanks for the tips. Still, I do believe it is a bit ridiculous when ranged champions get self peel when they have the safety of range. Also I don't think neither vayne nor kayle need nerfs, gnar with frozen mallet is simply absurd right now though. Have a good night (Well at least in east cost na lol)
ItsOrval4 votesAlso looking at your recents, you main Jungle and have hardly any top lane games played. Maybe if you mained top id take you more seriously, you are just not good top lane...
McFatal3 votesNo seriously.. I main Jayce and I dont know what he would need nerfed. The only thing I see that would need to be nerfed is Youmuus & Maw (Jayces Core), which is happening next season. So your problem is solved. Jayce's kit is already fine, its just the Armor pen items that make him seem God tier.
People even say Jayce is a champ that takes a long time to master, even pros cant master him. Only one person has been able to fully master Jayce, and whenever he wanted to play Jayce, hed get banned because people knew how stupid he was with him. Its probably the hardest champ to learn in this game, and I have over 300k mastery points in him, and I definitely have not mastered him.
He loses all his mana after using Q 3 times (Unless you get
did you just say jayce was the hardest champ to master in the game?
jayce is easy as fuck. please PLEASE sto psaying shit like that. ive played jayce when i was bronze and i climbed from bronze 1 to silver 1 in 1 week . this was season 3-4 when he was broken as fuck.
now you can take jayce 1st time into mid or top and still destroy players with his immense damage and how easy it is to avoid ganks and such.
you can build anything on jayce and still do good damage.
again, he is NOT hard to master.
ItsOrval5 votesive played jayce when i was bronze and i climbed from bronze 1 to silver 1 in 1 week . this was season 3-4 when he was broken as fuck.
Bronze and silver is easy elo. You can play any champ and fucking win lmao, thats not impressive. Also kids in that elo hardly face Jayce, Jayce is only being seen more this month because he was shown in LCS. In other words, Jayce is the new FOTM (Flavor of the Month), so people in low elo usually have no clue how to play against a Jayce. Also you just said yourself, that you did good with him in season 3-4 when he was broken as fuck, so...???
now you can take jayce 1st time into mid or top and still destroy players with his immense damage and how easy it is to avoid ganks and such. you can build anything on jayce and still do good damage.
You can build anything on Jayce and still do good damage? I must be living in a dream. If you look up Jayce's win/lost ratio, you will se where Jayce wins and loses the most. He wins most from the 10 minute mark to the 25 minute mark. And Loses from the 26 minute mark to the 45 minute mark. So in late game, Jayce should be winning by your logic, because he does so much damage with whatever items apparently? Yet in between the 26-45 minute mark he reaches less than a 45% winrate among Diamond pros. While recieving a 55% winrate between the 10-25 minute mark among Diamonds.
did you just say jayce was the hardest champ to master in the game? again, he is NOT hard to master.
Yes he among the top champs that require a lot of time and patience playing with. Maintaining your mana, always hitting your main skill shot, and knowing the limits of Jayce. He may be easy to use, but hes hard to master. If you do not understand that then this argument is over.
McFatal1 votesBronze and silver is easy elo. You can play any champ and fucking win lmao, thats not impressive. Also kids in that elo hardly face Jayce, Jayce is only being seen more this month because he was shown in LCS. In other words, Jayce is the new FOTM (Flavor of the Month), so people in low elo usually have no clue how to play against a Jayce. Also you just said yourself, that you did good with him in season 3-4 when he was broken as fuck, so...???
You can build anything on Jayce and still do good damage? I must be living in a dream. If you look up Jayce's win/lost ratio, you will se where Jayce wins and loses the most. He wins most from the 10 minute mark to the 25 minute mark. And Loses from the 26 minute mark to the 45 minute mark. So in late game, Jayce should be winning by your logic, because he does so much damage with whatever items apparently? Yet in between the 26-45 minute mark he reaches less than a 45% winrate among Diamond pros. While recieving a 55% winrate between the 10-25 minute mark among Diamonds.
Yes he among the top champs that require a lot of time and patience playing with. Maintaining your mana, always hitting your main skill shot, and knowing the limits of Jayce. He may be easy to use, but hes hard to master. If you do not understand that then this argument is over.
i can guarentee if i took jayce on my d5 smurf with DIAMOND 3 MMR, i could win my lane easy and do fairly well mid and late game. i guarantee it. there is nothing hard about knowing what buttons to press and when to aa and not. there is no mastering jayce. he has no fucking secret mechanics. he has no secret outplay button. you e q and then q on them to finish their ass off . if they are melee you just aa over and over until they are low and then repeat the finishing off move. every single high elo stream has said he was braindead. i dont need some jayce main to work his ass off to try to deny the truth. im a riven main that has dicked every single laner in the game. jayce is a braindead scumfuck champion that gets to do insane damage without having to use one braincell in lane. there is no downside to picking him. he doesnt fall of at all. you bully early game, then dick enemies mid and late.
ItsOrval3 voteshe doesnt fall of at all. you bully early game, then dick enemies mid and late.
I can tell you didnt read my comment at all, because Diamond players lose 45% and less mid to late game with Jayce. And you are picking Riven against a Jayce, obviously hes going to beat you you dumbass, Jayce counters you. Riven is one of the easiest games for Jayce to play against next to Gnar. Also Jayce is very easy to be countered by junglers, so I dont know where you got that from. Early game if Jayce gets ganked, and Elise lands her stun, Jayce is 99% going to die. Mid game if a Lee lands a Q on you, you are fucked. Late game any CC on you, and you are dead.
you e q and then q on them to finish their ass off
I can already tell you dont know what you are talking about just off of this statement. First of all you Q+E on your cannon mode, if you E+Q then you are obviously new with Jayce. Second of all, your Q+E combo on your Cannon only does about 25% health damage to the enemy (average) if they are squishy (Like 
who hardly are seen top). Thus if the enemy is a tank melee like Garen, Darius, it will probably do 10-15% max of their health as damage. And you lose about 25% of your mana just from that combo. Also if you were smart and knew you were facing a Jayce, youd know to get a 
at the start, because this makes Jayce useless once he uses his mana on you. Third of all, you dont switch into hammer mode to Q the enemy right after you Q+E them from your cannon lmao, thats exactly how you run out of mana and lose trades. Once again, you know little about this subject, please bring him into your 'Diamond Elo' so I can see how good you are. Then I will take you seriously.
McFatal1 votesI can tell you didnt read my comment at all, because Diamond players lose 45% and less mid to late game with Jayce. And you are picking Riven against a Jayce, obviously hes going to beat you you dumbass, Jayce counters you. Riven is one of the easiest games for Jayce to play against next to Gnar. Also Jayce is very easy to be countered by junglers, so I dont know where you got that from. Early game if Jayce gets ganked, and Elise lands her stun, Jayce is 99% going to die. Mid game if a Lee lands a Q on you, you are fucked. Late game any CC on you, and you are dead.
I can already tell you dont know what you are talking about just off of this statement. First of all you Q+E on your cannon mode, if you E+Q then you are obviously new with Jayce. Second of all, your Q+E combo on your Cannon only does about 25% health damage to the enemy (average) if they are squishy (Like
LOL? because im just going to spam my mana for no reason.cannon mode u can e q or q e depending on if the neemy laner can dodge shit or not. you q onto the enemy champ if they are low and dont have cds like for example garen or some shit and finsih them off. if you cant get to plat 5 abusing jayce then its just you being bad. if you were like the jayce players we wanted to get nerfed, you would be d5 no fucking problem. ive seen some shitty ass jayce players on the enemy team just fuck up everything but still prove to be useful.
g5 1 trick jayce is an AWFUL statement
ItsOrval3 votesI would be plat 5 no problem. But there is a problem, I can only play 2 games a day. My internet only gives me 65 ms when I am the only one home. But once 1 person comes home, their phone makes it go to 144 ms (Why I power off my phone so I dont have lag when I play). Once 2 people come home, basically at night, I get 188ms-240ms. So I only play 2 games a day for the whole 2 hours I have home alone, then I go to work. Also this account is perma banned, so if I could rank it up thatd be very impressive my man. https://s21.postimg.org/xo646ks13/Screenshot_21.png
And once I got banned from this account, I went back over to my main account that was Bronze 1 when I left it (about 6 months ago), and had shit mmr on it (lost 25 LP a game, gained 13 for winning) and I already got it up to Gold V no problem. Nobody would be saying anything about Jayce being an OP champ if LCS never played him. People are just too lazy today to use their head to actually counter a champion instead they just go with the flow.
McFatal1 votesI can tell you didnt read my comment at all, because Diamond players lose 45% and less mid to late game with Jayce. And you are picking Riven against a Jayce, obviously hes going to beat you you dumbass, Jayce counters you. Riven is one of the easiest games for Jayce to play against next to Gnar. Also Jayce is very easy to be countered by junglers, so I dont know where you got that from. Early game if Jayce gets ganked, and Elise lands her stun, Jayce is 99% going to die. Mid game if a Lee lands a Q on you, you are fucked. Late game any CC on you, and you are dead.
I can already tell you dont know what you are talking about just off of this statement. First of all you Q+E on your cannon mode, if you E+Q then you are obviously new with Jayce. Second of all, your Q+E combo on your Cannon only does about 25% health damage to the enemy (average) if they are squishy (Like
Are u implying that if anyone else gets hit with Elise cocoon they 1 shot her for kill? Jayce has 3x more gapclosers and escapes .
ItsOrval3 votesYou are so annoying to argue with, this is the last comment im leaving for you because you clearly dont use your head and you need everything spelled out for you.
If Elise ends up landing her Cocoon on you, and lets say youre facing a 
(A champ that Jayce counters very well), all Darius has to do is E jayce, and hes done. If Jayce hammers Darius away with his E, then he spent too much time and will now die to the Elise due to to the time it takes to cast E on Darius. Now lets say you straight up try to run away. Well Darius would have W you by then, creating a slow on you, thus you E your gate up + R for your passive speed boost, by the time you do that, you are at a one shot, which you will usually die to.
You can say this with any champ, if the jungler is there Jayce wont be able to 1v2 them, hes not an 
or a , he just cant, its not part of his kits during early/mid game, unless fed, but any top lane champ can 1v2 if fed, so thats irrelevant. So you main 
, if Elise lands her Cocoon on Jayce or if Lee succefully kicks Jayce, hes screwed either way. All Riven has to do is Q, AA, W, Q, AA, Q. Jayce cant handle a lot of CC. That why champs like AP 
counter Jayce, because they have good sustain and/or cc.
The reason why most Rivens lose lane to a Jayce is because they dont build armor at ALL. They will the original full AD on Riven, while Jayce builds full Armor pen. If Jayce uses armor pen runes and masteries, he will have about 43 flat armor penetration at level 6/7. Thus Q+E from Cannon will easily hurt Riven, but if the riven is good she should know when to use her E as well.
Have a good one bud, your arguments are just pointless and I dont know why you are making these assumptions up. Im done replying, go ahead and leave your last comment, I know people like to get the last word in the world, so go ahead and say anything you want, say "Git Gud" for all I care lol.
EDIT: Please tell me your main account name actually. Your so called 'Diamond' account. Because it says here that you are silver 3, and for a Diamond player playing in Silver 3 Norms, youre not that good. Cheers.
McFatal1 votesYou are so annoying to argue with, this is the last comment im leaving for you because you clearly dont use your head and you need everything spelled out for you.
If Elise ends up landing her Cocoon on you, and lets say youre facing a
You can say this with any champ, if the jungler is there Jayce wont be able to 1v2 them, hes not an
The reason why most Rivens lose lane to a Jayce is because they dont build armor at ALL. They will the original full AD on Riven, while Jayce builds full Armor pen. If Jayce uses armor pen runes and masteries, he will have about 43 flat armor penetration at level 6/7. Thus Q+E from Cannon will easily hurt Riven, but if the riven is good she should know when to use her E as well.
Have a good one bud, your arguments are just pointless and I dont know why you are making these assumptions up. Im done replying, go ahead and leave your last comment, I know people like to get the last word in the world, so go ahead and say anything you want, say "Git Gud" for all I care lol.
EDIT: Please tell me your main account name actually. Your so called 'Diamond' account. Because it says here that you are silver 3, and for a Diamond player playing in Silver 3 Norms, youre not that good. Cheers.
It's a smurf acc first of all. My d3 got banned on the forums and my d5 got banned for 7 days because I was messing around . Azureraven . Enjoy gold 5 buddy . When jayce gets nerfed next patch I'll @ u so we can see who was right on jayce being broken or balanced
Calabok3 votesNot required
McFatal6 votesNot required
this may sound toxic but this is why you're in silver 5 with 1k games. kennen jayce top priority for nerfs atm and they still arent getting them.
Jbels1 votesthis may sound toxic but this is why you're in silver 5 with 1k games. kennen jayce top priority for nerfs atm and they still arent getting them.
I think Riot will go for base stat nerfs to try to force jayce out of top lane once and for all. Maybe a base health nerf that will make him far too easy for other top laners to all in him at level 3. As for Kennen, I really think his AA range needs to go down by 50-75, and his E needs to stop giving him defensive stats. It already helps him escape a majority of death situations, why does it make him tankier while doing it?
TNHA Baritone3 votesthis may sound toxic but this is why you're in silver 5 with 1k games
There are other ways to get your point across without insulting someone...especially when your insult had nothing to do with your main point. Him not thinking that Kennen & Jayce need buffs unequivocally is not the reason that he's Silver 5 with 1,000 games.
To an extent, I do think that they need to be looked at THOUGH no one would be saying shit about Jayce or Kennen if Worlds didn't exist.
McFatal1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Karma God,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J8GOkTXT,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2016-10-21T05:25:01.936+0000)
There are other ways to get your point across without insulting someone...especially when your insult had nothing to do with your main point. Him not thinking that Kennen & Jayce need buffs unequivocally is not the reason that he's Silver 5 with 1,000 games.
To an extent, I do think that they need to be looked at THOUGH no one would be saying shit about Jayce or Kennen if Worlds didn't exist.
its the reason why hes low elo. because he doesnt know how the game works actually. that wasnt toxic tbh. dont defend him for something that wasnt that bad. i was fair and didnt insult him directly. i said because hes low elo he wont know what jayce needs or doesnt need.
Phoenix Kotori 1 votesKennen I agree, but Riot had been buffing Jayce bit by bit off and on for awhile now it was kinda of doomed to have QQ about him happen (and I think giving his R melee auto the AD ratio was a bigger buff than people realized it gives him absurd burst in melee form).
ItsOrval1 votesThe only patches on jayce this year was nerfing his W on Cannon mode from +130% physical damage to +110% physical damage, and making his E 40 mana at all ranks. Unless im missing something, but they did not continuously buff Jayce.
Phoenix Kotori 1 votesSince the patch v5.11 changes to jayce which were debately buffs as well, he's gotten nothing but buffs in the past year.
V5.22 http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V5.22 Stats Mana increased to 357.2 from 307.2 Mana growth reduced to 37 from 40
Buff to his early game mana
V6.6 http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V6.6 To The Skies! Damage increased to 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 from 30 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 AD ratio increased to (+ 120% bonus AD) from (+ 100% bonus AD) Cost reduced to 40 at all ranks from 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65
Significant buffs to his melee Q and more to ease his mana costs
V6.17 http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V6.17 Thundering Blow Mana cost reduced to 40 at all ranks from 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90. Transform: Mercury Cannon / Transform: Mercury Hammer Hammer Stance bonus damage ratio changed to 40% bonus AD from 40% AP.
Significant buff to his R empowered Auto attack and more to ease his mana costs.
Together the changes left him with no real mana gating that can't solve, and put his melee form into an overpowered state, imo.
Girard3 votesChampion stays at 49-51% winrate basically since release Champion is played with a heavy early-game damage build by WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYERS and is shown to do well Nerfs that hit everyone down to bronze ok
TNHA Baritone2 votesDon't you know about the cycle?
Some escape it (like Orianna) while some...don't (Azir, Taliyah, Sivir, [INSERT NEXT SHURIMAN CHAMPION])
WoonStruck1 votesThey said they weren't touching champion balance much until after pre-season, unfortunately.
We all have to wait for our justice.
TNHA Baritone1 votesI don't really have an absolute opinion about these champions (though I do think Kennen Flash Hextech Protobelting into a team with his ult on is a unfun). I rarely get to play versus Jayce (since he is always banned), but I know of the trouble both cause for melee top laners.
With the season coming to an end, I find it interesting how all these....unexpected champions became so popular this season. Not saying any of these weren't popular before (though some weren't) but this season I've seen: Jayce, Kennen, Karma, Kog'Maw, Graves, Jhin, Lucian, Yasuo, Irelia, Illaoi, Gnar, Vladimir, Ashe, Sona, Nunu, Gankplank, Zac, and Kindred. Before the S6 PBE Preseason Patch was made public, could you imagine those champions (especially the bold ones) in S6?
Lord Chiroptera1 votesWell, I mean, if your username is any indication, I don't _think _ you should have any trouble in a Kennen vs Karma 1v1. Granted, I've pretty much never played Ranked, but I've played Kennen since late 2012 and after Karma came out, every time someone stole Kennen, I would go Karma and pretty much just win lane, and I'm terrible at League. XD Again, though, I know the scene is night and day when comparing norms to ranked, but I'm pretty sure that's mostly in player skill and if I'm destroying Kennen as Karma and I'm bad, surely he doesn't do well against her in ranked, right? Oh well.
TNHA Baritone1 votesI don't think you should have any trouble in a Kennen vs Karma 1v1.
Kennen's strength lies in his 5v5 potential so it really doesn't matter if I smash him in lane, most people would much rather the AOE stun and damage that he can bring to a fight.
RexSaur1 votesGut Jayce Kennen and Syndra 2016
CrazyBear19871 votes"yet"
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