Can someone (riot?) Provide context in Ornn's pbe nerfs?

ValyrianBlade··2 votes·276 views

I see all these threads complaining about how riot never responds to the hard to answer questions, and just answers the easy stuff. Then all the riot responses that they don't want to get into a thread where the person is clearly emotional.

So, no emotions - just facts. Ornn has a 48% win rate - below 50% (noticeably). Ornn has around a 20% ban rate (last i checked a couple days ago) (quite high, like 7th?) Implies? That ornn isn't OP (or even strong), but people don't like playing against him. Likely because he's really annoying to Lane against?

So why is ornn getting an ultimate nerf that is only 10 sec at rank 1 (very minor) when he's in Lane, but 30 sec (42%) at rank 3 when he's already fallen off big time (you can't have it both ways, if he's too strong in Lane to make people dislike him, but has a sub-50 win rate, he must not be strong late)? Why is ornn getting unstoppable removed from his w?

What makes these nerfs necessary? These specific targeted nerfs (as opposed to other ornn nerfs like increasing mana costs or reducing his w shield or base health)? Is ornn considered an unhealthy champion? (Why else would you nerf someone with an under 50% win rate?) How will these nerfs make him healthy and create room for compensatory buffs to get him back towards 50%?

Given what I'm seeing, it would make a lot more sense to nerf Ornn's early game through either reducing his early damage, or increasing mana costs/cooldowns so that he's less oppressive to Lane against, then putting in compensation buffs after a patch or two to give him a stronger teamfight presence or otherwise improve his mid/late to help him get closer to a 50% win rate while his weaker early makes people not dislike him as much. Fix the problem, then balance him. These nerfs seem like they'll leave people still hating to Lane against him, he'll still get hate and be banned, but his win rate will drop even further. So even less balanced, but still a problem.

7 Comments

Rexxiee3 votes

Because hes one of the most broken champions in the game, in both solo q and competitive play, close to 100% pick or ban on both, this is a fact, dont come with your bullshit "but 48% win rateeee", lb when she had a silence and was one of the most OP champs in the game also had 48% wr, azir had 45% when he was completely dominating competitive play, WR alone is useless.

And hes STILL overpowered after those nerfs, he still dominates every lane that is melee.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

{quoted}

Because hes one of the most broken champions in the game, in both solo q and competitive play, close to 100% pick or ban on both, this is a fact, dont come with your bullshit "but 48% win rateeee", lb when she had a silence and was one of the most OP champs in the game also had 48% wr, azir had 45% when he was completely dominating competitive play, WR alone is useless.

And hes STILL overpowered after those nerfs, he still dominates every lane that is melee.

So you clearly didn't read anything but the title as you're just proving my point.

These nerfs do nothing to fix the problems people have with ornn. You said yourself that he's still broken and dominates every lane that is melee (which btw is not a fact, it's your opinion. The fact would be referencing early lead ratios, which ornn has about 51-54% in most melee matchups).

The whole point is that these nerfs aren't going to fix him, people will still call for more nerfs, even though he'll drop to like a 46% win rate, and eventually he'll get those nerfs and be absolutely guttered, around 40% win rate and unplayable until he gets buffs (which will likely over buff him and make him need nerfs again).

So why not nerf him in a better way off the start so he's not so far away from balanced when you need to buff him? Crush his early game - people clearly aren't okay with a tank lane bully. Then find where you can add power (e.g. improve his e, especially at later ranks).

Ralanr1 votes

The problem is that Riot wants his laning to be good to better solidify the power of his passive (making it so he can just set up shop in top and not leave).

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that Riot wants his laning to be good to better solidify the power of his passive (making it so he can just set up shop in top and not leave).

Thank you.

So would this summary be accurate:

  • Riot defined Ornn's fantasy (strong laner, set up shop in Lane and bully people out)
  • Riot did a reasonably good job of making that fantasy NUMERICALLY balanced (his win rate in the 48%-51% range)
  • Ornn players have fun with that fantasy (he's still popular despite sub 50% win rate)
  • People playing against Ornn hate his fantasy (hence his ban rate)
  • Riot isn't willing to nerf parts of Ornn that make his fantasy / are his strengths

So basically, the problem is that the players determined ornn's fantasy is unhealthy, but riot is unwilling to change it?

Wouldn't it be better to do something like move ornn's shield from his w to his e or even r (i.e. e or r has a passive that says "whenever ornn becomes unstoppable he gets his current w shield) to create an early period of weakness (either levels 1-2 or 1-5) which makes him less oppressive in Lane, but allows his fantasy to exist once he reaches that spot (and possibly needs to recover from any early deficit)?

Ralanr1 votes

Honestly I have seen arguments (I cannot remember them in detail sadly) that argue putting his shield on his E would be too detrimental.

Frankly I think they need to increase the W cost or reduce the duration of brittle.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I agree that those nerfs are better, but I'm operating under the assumption that Riot won't consider them as they hurt ornn's fantasy (to explain: brittle lasting a long time can force an opponent to back off long enough for ornn to start building an item in Lane).

Ralanr1 votes

Idk about that part of Brittle, though I don’t remember the exact duration of brittle and his crafting.

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