Abyssal Scepter is warping the whole AP meta

Pyro··9 votes·4,053 views

In case you haven't been watching LCS, let me bring up the most frequent AP picks for solo lanes:

Ahri Lissandra Kassadin Leblanc Xerath Morgana Rumble Nidalee Cassiopeia Kennen

And here's a fun fact: Lissandra and Morgana are being played in the top lane. With Rumble and Kennen obviously there as well.

Does that mean the midlane is occupied by AD champions now? Well, aside from occasional Zed/Ezreal picks, that is not the case. What happens instead is a very high shift towards double AP comps. How does that happpen?

http://i.imgur.com/eqPnMgz.png

Well, Abyssal Scepter is the reason for that. It's an item that both a) promotes double AP comps (providing MR debuff for your teammates)) b) counters double AP comps (with high MR rating). The problem in here are the indirect implications: domination of Abyssal Scepter phases out long-ranged mages who can't utilize its passive.

#Why did this happen

It's not like Abyssal got a huge buff overnight, season 5 just gave it a smoother build path. I'd like to bring up Riot's comment on that:

We don't see this as being a permanent fix for Abyssal Scepter, but felt we could make this change just to clean up the recipe. While there's less Magic Resistance in the build path, it also consumes less inventory space! --- Pwyff, Patch 4.21 notes

Now the reason for Abyssal's resurgence is the changes to other items. Barring the Tear builds on champs like Cassiopeia and Kassadin, all midlaners have always rushed Athene's or Morellonomicon, unless the situation called for early Zhonya's or DFG (rip). With Athene's overly nerfed, Morellonomicon became the dominating CDR item.

That didn't remove the need for MR on mages, though, especially those who are getting in a close range. Toplaners like Maokai, supports like Annie and even carries like Corki/Ezreal all deal high magic damage. That's where Abyssal Scepter comes into play. Paired with Morellonomicon, it has become a frequent core build on both Ahri and Lissandra, and lately even toplane Morgana.

#Why is it problematic

Abyssal Scepter is one of these items that are redundant in counterplay. To counter Abyssal, build Abyssal. This gravitates the mage meta towards close-ranged mages like Lissandra, Morgana and Ahri. Since Athene's and Banner of Command, the only alternative AP-MR items, are underwhelming, long-ranged mages are left out of this struggle.

Then there's the case of manaless AP champions like Katarina (55% winrate at the moment, rushing Abyssal in all most popular builds).

#How to fix it

First, Athene's Unholy Grail probably needs a buff to one of its statistics. Either AP, MR or mana regen. It needs to be comparable with Abyssal and Morellonomicon, and right now it just isn't. One of its problems is that the Mana Font passive scales with mana pool, but items like Archangel's Staff and RoA provide so much mana that you don't really need that regen.

As for Abyssal itself, it should probably be split into two components:

  • anti-AP item
  • double-AP synergy item

Shouldn't do both at the same time.

#Example changes

A small buff to Athene's, and

item 3001 Abyssal Scepter

  • +50 ability power (-20), +50 magic resist
  • Active: Steal 20% of ability power from nearby enemy champions for 5 seconds. 90 second cooldown.

The AP steal can be limited to one of the two sides of the effect, AP "copy" or AP debuff, if having both at the same time is too much. Anyway, the idea here is to get rid of the MR debuff and replace it with a different anti-AP mechanic.

New AP Item (example name: Robe of Pyromancy, heh)

  • Example build: item 1058 Needlessly Large Rod + item 3108 Fiendish Codex
  • Alternative: item 1058 Needlessly Large Rod + item 3113 Aether Wisp
  • +120 ability power +10% coodlwon reduction (alternative: +6% movement speed)
  • Unique Active (placeholder name: Reign of Fire/Magma Chamber): Creates a zone for 15 seconds that reduces magic resistance of all enemies within by 5% every second, stacking up to 6 times. (900 range, 1000 radius) 60 second cooldown.

This now is a tool for double AP comps. It works similar to the Black Cleaver and the scope is identical to Trundle's Frozen Domain. Basically you mark an area and all enemies within gradually become vulnerable to magic damage. Not very much useful for assassins, but for AoE/DoT mages it could be interesting on its own, even without external sources of magical DPS. My immobile midlane mage bias is showing, but generally this should be perferred by "zone control" mages like Malzahar, Velkoz, Brand, Zyra or even Orianna.

This is just an example, but the point is: double AP and anti-AP parts of Abyssal Scepter need to be separated.

#Summary

The current states of AP-MR items favours champions building Abyssal Scepter, as Athene's Unholy Grail fell from grace. Furthermore, the item promotes a "fight fire with fire" approach where the best response to double AP with Abyssal is Abyssal itself. This doesn't seem to be the proper direction.

22 Comments

Volt Cruelerz10 votes
  1. What's wrong with double mage comps?
  2. What you're referring to in no way hurts long-range mages. They can just build Void Staff/Liandry's+Rylai's. Xerath is doing just fine right now.
  3. I see no problem with Abyssal as it stands. You only build Abyssal to counter Abyssal if you'd have built it anyways, regardless of how the enemy got those stats.
  4. I agree that an Athene's buff would be good. I'd prefer a buff to its mana regen since that's always been the identity of the item.
  5. You should google Item 3285. 120 AP+7% MS, making it weaker than what you suggest, but being worryingly powerful for mages like Xerath. It's already raised red flags on PBE; Imagine what your suggestion would do to him?
  6. Purchase rates on Abyssal lately are lower than historical averages across all tiers and even at high tiers are effectively unchanged.
Pyro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Volt Cruelerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iqq4xyAl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-23T21:54:38.004+0000)

  1. What's wrong with double mage comps?

Nothing, as long as they aren't all centered around one item which favours a subset of AP champs and just happens to also be the only AP tool to counter heavy AP teams.

  1. What you're referring to in no way hurts long-range mages. They can just build Void Staff/Liandry's+Rylai's. Xerath is doing just fine right now.

Xerath doesn't build Liandrys, his only option to survive magic damage is Banshee/Rylai's/Zhonya's.

  1. I see no problem with Abyssal as it stands. You only build Abyssal to counter Abyssal if you'd have built it anyways, regardless of how the enemy got those stats.

That is one of the reasons why the champions who are bulding Abyssal "anyway" - such as Lissandra and Ahri - have a high pick rate in LCS. A very minor one, but still a factor.

This is very apparent on Katarina. She's sitting at 55% winrate and rushing Abyssal Scepter, the higher the elo the often.

  1. I agree that an Athene's buff would be good. I'd prefer a buff to its mana regen since that's always been the identity of the item.

Yeah, but careful with that. As Riot stated, one item shouldn't make you manaless.

  1. You should google Item 3285. 120 AP+7% MS, making it weaker than what you suggest, but being worryingly powerful for mages like Xerath. It's already raised red flags on PBE; Imagine what your suggestion would do to him?

I was on it shortly after it was released

  1. Purchase rates on Abyssal lately are lower than historical averages across all tiers and even at high tiers are effectively unchanged.

It's a more a theoretical problem than a purely practical one. The design is flawed, it's not necessarily "breaking" the game.

ElysMustache6 votes

Galio votes no to Abyssal nerfs.

Pyro2 votes

Galio? You mean that pirate champion? Or the spinning one with a sword?

B1naryB0t2 votes

It's the one with the time bombs.

Skias1 votes

Whens Galio come out? Never seen him.

SmokingPuffin6 votes

I think you're way overrating item 3001 in this story. It's useful if your opponent is AP, but it's quite poor if you face an AD champion. Seeing lots of Abyssal is the symptom, not the root cause.

The root cause is 2v1 lanes. Teams are trying to fight against opposing teams denying their top laner farm. AP champions with long range wave clear and solid dive defenses are the best way we know how to do that.

Given that you're running a double AP comp, it seems obvious that you'd want to run Abyssal on the team. Auras are strong when double dipping. Doesn't mean the item is a problem in any way.

Sailor Mint4 votes
  • Low AP (70) for its cost (2440g)
  • No CDR or Mana Regen.
  • Bad build path. You have a Blasting Wand worth of offensive stats until you complete it.
  • 20 MR Reduction is equivalent to ~12.22 MPen once you have a Void Staff.

It's an MR item with okay offensive stats. That's it.

NorthernDruid1 votes

It's the only high MR item with offensive stats.

Because if your abilities are in range for it, then it's got 20 MR reduction (which can reduce MR to below if that's ever relevant). 10 more AP than the next highest AP+MR items, and 10 more MR than the next highest MR item (Banner of command is 20 + 20 from the legion aura = 40)

So it's one of two high power offensive/defensive resistance items for AP-magic damage champions.

The other being Zhonya's Hourglass which is the only high-AP+armor item

On top of that, it's build path is really flexible. One component is Blasting wand, which builds into all but one (as far as i'm aware) 100+ AP items, which your build will probably include at least one of. The other is Negatron cloak, which builds into a few strong defensive items and which in turn builds out of Null Magic Mantle, which is the first step to ANY MR at all.

Also, the AP is in the high range for that price range, being only outdone by Morellonomicon, Twin Shadows and Will of the Ancients and on mana champions Archangel's Staff. None of which have any directly defensive stats (I mean, WotA has spellvamp, and fully stacked Seraph's Embrace has a health shield, but those aren't as directly defensive, not as reliable, as MR).

On top of that, it's the cheapest finished MR item in the game at all. (at least in classic, in other game modes item 3112 is a bit cheaper, but offers no offensive stats)

Mikael's Crucible comes really close though, offering only 10 less MR for as little as 10 gold more :P

If you don't have too long range for it's passive, it's a great item. Emphasised by being the only MR item with good offensive stats.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Blasting Wand is super awkward to sit on since all of its items require another 1600g+ to complete.

I didn't say it was a bad item, I'm saying it's a situational item that is only strong on specific champions and is very team comp dependent. At 100AP, Rylai's Crystal Scepter is also a strong option at the moment.

NorthernDruid1 votes

I don't find blasting wand to be that bad to sit on. Any full item above 2k requires you to sit on one item and then get another 1400+ gold worth of items. Blasting wand is a good one to sit on because it's the second most ap in one unfinished item (seeker's armguard I guess ties with it once you get some stacks) and the one above it costs twice as much.

I'm also able to sit on it while finishing my tear (because I had enough for a rod but not for upgrading to AA's directly. And then if I need another blasting wand item, I can get that one first.

Rylai's is strong for sure, but costs 460 more gold (it's in the ~3000 price range instead of the ~2500 price range basically), doesn't give any MR pen at all, and doesn't give MR. it gives 30 more AP, health instead of MR and some interesting utility.

They do different things and are in different price classes.

And right now, Abyssal stands out as the only good option for when you want AP and MR at once.

ForgiveColour3 votes

better qq about zed and not the real issue -board

Kitten of Evil1 votes

It's fine. If anything, I see more all-AD-and-a-support comps than double-mage comps. Granted, I generally eschew ranked and play normals, but if Abyssal opens up the possibility of double-mage teams, I say go for it. Personally, I don't build Abyssal to counter Abyssal. I build Abyssal to counter magic damage without sacrificing AP. The team MPen is a nice bonus in teamfights too.

I don't think it's reasonable to compare Abyssal to Athene's. You get the two items at different stages in the game and for entirely different purposes -- Athene's is (or was) a mana-regen item with a tiny amount of MR and a bit of AP, and CDR. Currently it's still outclassed by Morello's in most situations (maybe raise Athene's to 100% base mana regen?). Abyssal is a late-game purchase for more damage and defense against fed mages. Hell, Abyssal isn't even the best MPen item. If you want Mpen you go Void staff, Haunting Guise/Liandry's and Sorc boots.

Skia Asteri1 votes

And at Worlds last season Rumble Kayle and Ryze were played as AP top laners. It is not like double AP is a new thing.

The increased use of item 3001 for double AP comps is more likely linked to the removal of DFG as an alternative to increasing the damage output of such team comps.

Also Riot always intended for Lissandra to be played both mid and top lane.

Cindikle1 votes

I fail to see the problem with Abyssal.

Abyssal does have a downside. It's effectiveness is reduced when stacked with Void Staff. While it does lower it with Void Staff, it's worth is dropped down to 13 instead of 20. A loss of 7 reduction that someone invested gold into. If you didn't know this is not the same as penetration. Which flat is applied after %. Abyssal is reduction. Which mean someone with 100MR will become 80MR before penetration is factored in.

If anything I see being a problem in your post it is top lane melee's being pushed out that we've seen a lot of this season.

AD's have ways to stack damage too. Zeke's being the lesser choice. Black Cleaver being another, which is currently over shadowed by Ghostblade. Problem with both of these is that they both help the rest of the team more than they help themselves. And not by enough to justify the item. If they were they'd get nerfed for "invisible power". Making Zeke's a stronger option on AD tanks/bruisers would be a good direction and making BC do something along the lines of a flat bonus physical damage by abilities to targets(reduced on aoe abilities) per stack would help.

I do agree however that other options are lacking. Athene's cost efficiency is in a really bad spot currently and is a good spot to start. Banner's AP is lacking to buy as a mage.

Skias2 votes

MR is incredibly difficult to itemize for. Most Champs that have Abyssal, Sorc Shoes, And 600AP are going to absolutely delete you anyways.

NorthernDruid1 votes

The real issue is that Athene's and Banner of Command aren't good enough.

Athene's because the MR isn't high enough to fill your needs for MR when combined with item 3111, Banner because it's a strategic support item with defensive stats in the price range of real AP items.

What I really wish, is that they'd make item 3170 availible in the rift.

Or at least make more double resistance items.

ìnsane1 votes

well, its supposed to be just that..the perfect item in the double ap meta . like no one used to built it at all for the longest time until recently. I remember it p much being a staple item during the diana (who btw always builds it last I checked) meta in early s3

also im p sure the mr on it got buffed from 40 or 45...the mr is gives is very much on par with the likes of banshees/sv and one of the very few items that now actually builds off of a negatron

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Why would anyone ever buy Abyssal on Xerath?

Sirsir1 votes

Ranges champs still utilize it. The aura is attached to the one that holds it and reduces the MR of enemies. They can't BUILD it but so what

aperson11 votes

I don't think it's Abyssal that's the issue, but rather the lack of other reasonably effective AP/MR itemization. Athene's simply doesn't give enough to be a proper "mage anti-magic item".

I think they should consider the route of making Athene's like an "AP hexdrinker", with lower AP and CDR but having the lifeline passive. Otherwise it will always compete with Morello's for the "AP, 20% CDR and regen item".

SIayton1 votes

IMO Abyssal is fine, its Abyssal's competitors that need work. Same with Morellos. The reason to get athenes before over morellos was the mana sustain was better. Now the mana sustain is almost exactly the same, if not worse, and you get less AP, for a MORE expensive item. If athenes were better, less people would need abyssal because they would have an AP / MR alternative.

Also, they could just change Abyssal to be like black cleaver with a stacking MR reduction, or just apply once on spell hit, that way long range mages can still utilize it, but its not applied for free just because the mage happens to be close to everyone on the enemy team. They would have to selectively apply it to get the MR debuff. Yay, counterplay. Don't get hit, keep your MR!

TL;DR though, please buff athenes.

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