What's Garen's fate for the next patch?

Ok sure but why·May 30, 2018·3 votes·1,916 views

I know it won't bother any Garen players out there if they run the standard build, but what about us people that take crit?

I know we can settle for Zeal items, but when Garen's spinning, he really has no need for attack speed. That's why it's annoying that we're forced to take attack speed items to make his spin hurt more!

https://youtu.be/A8xogcDnzng I personally take as many Infinity Edges as I can, yet that's just no longer gonna be very viable of an option.

14 Comments

Warlord RhinarkMay 30, 20183 votes

I remember some guy (I won't say the name) making a post about making Garen's amounts of spins on his E scale with attack speed.

It got a pretty good amount of upvotes so maybe Riot can buff our

Big Demacian #BOI

A little bit since he's desperately going to need some buffs if the crit build is even going to be somewhat viable.

Until then, I guess the next best thing we can do is build full Lethality Garen.

Critmaster GarenMay 30, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IpA70REO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-30T06:09:25.215+0000)

I remember some guy (I won't say the name) making a post about making Garen's amounts of spins on his E scale with attack speed.

It got a pretty good amount of upvotes so maybe Riot can buff our

Big Demacian #BOI

A little bit since he's desperately going to need some buffs if the crit build is even going to be somewhat viable.

Until then, I guess the next best thing we can do is build full Lethality Garen.

i dont take credit for the idea. the concept of adding an attack speed scaling to his spin has been brought up by other people before.

but it would make attack speed not a wasted stat on him anymore, means item 3046 item 3031 would be a valid build if youd just get one or two extra spins from the phantom dancer.

DysnomiaMay 30, 20182 votes

I hope Garen will get some kind of slow, and knockup. That would make him balanced healthy spinning tard.

Irelia BotMay 30, 20181 votes

Garen is one of the weird outliers with crit.

Not many evne care about his spin's crit in the first place and I honestly know it is there but don't evne think of it as a factor.

It could be removed and you along with like 100 other people might care about it.

DragonSheaMay 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IpA70REO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-30T06:03:25.940+0000)

Garen is one of the weird outliers with crit.

Not many evne care about his spin's crit in the first place and I honestly know it is there but don't evne think of it as a factor.

It could be removed and you along with like 100 other people might care about it.

Crit on Garen is noob-bait Garen should either have his crit one his E removed or it should be reworked into something else.

Critmaster GarenMay 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Crit on Garen is noob-bait Garen should either have his crit one his E removed or it should be reworked into something else.

or we should make it effective enough to encourage it.

the more build diversity the champion has, the better. if the champion doesnt have a high mechanical skill cap, then one way to add strategic mastery to garen is to allow him to build almost any ad or defensive item in the game, and have his player chose the right item and build for the right situation.

in matchups like Fiora your regular bruiser build is basically worthless, since any attempt to try and build beefy against her is futile at a certain point in the game. to my experience, the best you can do is build almost full ad and try to outrace her damage when fighting her. this strategy served me pretty well so far. trigage and crit builds do a pretty good job in this case.

plus, his crit scaling was always one very unique aspect of his kit, that set him apart from other juggernauts.

people often complain that garen is a worse version of darius. well, darius cant build crit items and get away with it.

TEA Nietzsche May 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IpA70REO,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T08:37:32.599+0000)

the more build diversity the champion has, the better.

Oh yes, can't wait for tank Ekko to be back.

if the champion doesnt have a high mechanical skill cap, then one way to add strategic mastery to garen is to allow him to build almost any ad or defensive item in the game, and have his player chose the right item and build for the right situation.

That is hard to accomplish and only true for few champions like Riven - I agree that it would definitely be nice, however balancing the general game takes priority over keeping crit viable for Garen when it wasn't his primary build anyways.

in matchups like your regular bruiser build is basically worthless, since any attempt to try and build beefy against her is futile at a certain point in the game. to my experience, the best you can do is build almost full ad and try to outrace her damage when fighting her. this strategy served me pretty well so far. trigage and crit builds do a pretty good job in this case.

Having played the occasional full lethality Garen game I'd argue that this is a worthy replacement for Crit Garen.

Critmaster GarenMay 30, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=TEA Traumate,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IpA70REO,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T12:37:16.206+0000)

Oh yes, can't wait for tank Ekko to be back.

if the champion doesnt have a high mechanical skill cap, then one way to add strategic mastery to garen is to allow him to build almost any ad or defensive item in the game, and have his player chose the right item and build for the right situation.

That is hard to accomplish and only true for few champions like Riven - I agree that it would definitely be nice, however balancing the general game takes priority over keeping crit viable for Garen when it wasn't his primary build anyways.

Having played the occasional full lethality Garen game I'd argue that this is a worthy replacement for Crit Garen.e.

the problem with tank ekko was that through his mobility and safety net of his ult, he basically turned unkillable, and into a better bruiser than the champions who are supposed to be bruisers.

making crit builds just as cost effective on garen as bruiser builds really doesnt change anything about his playstile. the build is a bit more expensive and lategame oriented, but packs more of a punch.

i dont see how this should create any problems.

garen should have the option to pull off builds like this: item 3071 item 3031 item 3046 item 3053 item 3742 item 1001

this isnt inherently broken. its just an item build you wouldnt see on most other fighters, let alone juggernauts. the only other jugger i can think of who builds crit is mundo, who tends to pick up phantom dancer now and then to scale up the damage on his e.

let us have the option.

MLDzXnRRRMay 30, 20181 votes

Isn't this build overpowered against squishies? Being deleted by a champ with no skill expression outside of timing his W. So much fun, wow.

Christ SuperstarMay 30, 20181 votes

I recommend stop facechecking bushes!...

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Or standing still when he runs angrily towards you...

If anyone dies to Garen, it's because they made a bad mistake - Garen's effeciency, attack speed -> more spins "buff" or not, it ultimately depends on the errors/misjudgement of the enemy, moreso than the actual Garen player.

Critmaster GarenMay 30, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Christ Superstar,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IpA70REO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-05-30T12:25:56.859+0000)

I recommend stop facechecking bushes!...

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Or standing still when he runs angrily towards you...

If anyone dies to Garen, it's because they made a bad mistake - Garen's effeciency, attack speed -> more spins "buff" or not, it ultimately depends on the errors/misjudgement of the enemy, moreso than the actual Garen player.

depending on the balancing of the as scaling, its not even a buff.

compare item 3077 and item 3086 which are both 1200 gold items.

tiamat is 100% cost effective on garen and increases garens damage on his auto attacks, his q, and his spin through the extra ad. you can even use tiamat active during the spin. so there is not a single stat wasted on the item.

adding as scaling to garens spin would effectively make zeal just as gold effective as tiamat. it wouldnt be a buff, but more that zeal items would be 100% cost effective on garen, when they currently arent, by adding the same damage that tiamat would. just through extra spins and spin crits instead of flat ad.

MagmusOverlordMay 30, 20181 votes

Doesn't Garen have a ridiculously high win rate right now. He has the second highest winrate on op.gg, 53.38. I am in low elo so I might have high bias(he has highest win rate in bronze and silver), do we really need a buff for garen?

a good chunk of the playerbase is struggling against him.. if your proposed buff buffs the standard garen then it would be really really bad for us.

Critmaster GarenMay 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't Garen have a ridiculously high win rate right now. He has the second highest winrate on op.gg, 53.38. I am in low elo so I might have high bias(he has highest win rate in bronze and silver), do we really need a buff for garen?

a good chunk of the playerbase is struggling against him.. if your proposed buff buffs the standard garen then it would be really really bad for us.

hes at like 47%

either way, this isnt even a buff. this would just be a buff to a specific item build of his to make it as effective as his other, already existing builds.