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Item build paths are one of the biggest reasons i've seen in Silver that leads to defeat

Trash MammaI··7 votes·735 views

A Malphite will buy item 3751 vs a Vladimir and finish item 3068 before even considering item 3211 then wonder why they get dumpstered

A Ahri will build item 3165 item 3089 vs a Zed before finally realizing hey maybe a item 3157 would keep me from dying as much

It gets really irritating to see this and when you tell them so they usually lash out on you like you just told their mother to have an abortion. You people will win more games if you actually learn to change your build path according to what the game requires instead of "I want this item cuz it's purdy"

For example, normally in my Shaco build path I have to decide between BT or Maw to build before the other, if the enemy team has ap champs that are being an issue I go for maw first. If their ap isn't that bothersome or they lack a lot of it I go for BT. If they have more hp stackers than armor I go for bork instead of LW.

Figure out what the game needs instead of what you want

20 Comments

Very Hard Engage5 votes

you build zhonyas on ahri as a first item and you already anticipate losing lane, if you actually go for damage/cdr, you plan on out skilling them and attempt to 1v1. zhonyas is the losing bet or to turn what would be hemorrhaging into a mild cut for the whole team.

i cant express enough that zhonyas is not a counter zed item, as zed BUILDS PENETRATION.

the only thing zhonyas does is stop death mark damage, too bad your health pool was too low to take the rest of his kit anyway, or he just had more sustain, meaning it didn't matter if you hit him just as many times as he hit you. because he casted Q 30x more than you did in lane, and his low accuracy suddenly doesn't matter.

it doesn't change the fact that you're now within combo range because you lacked sustain and couldn't start with additional health pots or rush a vamp scepter as a first item, because now hes going to target you and go ham anyway because he has more MS then you, will get in range, (when you go to last hit or otherwise) and simply press R on you and force the fight anyway.

WarlockLaw1 votes

It counters his entire ult so it should be built first or second vs, the armor is just a small bonus. The only thing you should build before it when laning ap vs him is your mana item

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

It counters his entire ult so it should be built first or second vs, the armor is just a small bonus. The only thing you should build before it when laning ap vs him is your mana item

your second item is always quite a ways off, especially a zhonyas. its massivley expensive when you dont have kills to fund your gold.

as ive said, ap/cdr comes first if you actually want to win against the zed, and possibly shut him down, everything else is just a farm game dodge all his Q's or else. zhonyas ONLY prevents the death mark damage, it doesn't change when he goes in (namely after hes landed 2 or 3 Q's against you and you're sitting between 75~50% health) and when you're at that amount of health, he doesn't even need the DM damage to kill you, the rest of his kit does more than enough damage.

WarlockLaw1 votes

If you had actually read what I said, I said pick up your mana item first, you know the whichever item allows the champ you are playing to stand 2 miles away clearing with spells so Zed can't poke you. That item might be tear or maybe RoA but most likely morellonomicon. After that you should be building zhonyas. You should never build deathcap vs zed prior to a zhonyas unless you are somehow fed off of him

Very Hard Engage1 votes

once again, its not going to matter, no matter what plays out in "your" head, the same thing happens every time, he widdles you down with his infinite 6 sec CD spammable ability, he goes in as he sees fit.

if you want to deny him farm, and potentially get him to back, or get the kill even, you need ap/cdrs, not mana regen.

at no point in time, will you ever be able to be on par with his number of casts or his resource gain, that means you need to COMBO, and keep constant pressure up, which demands cdr.

if you spend ~620 on the morello component for 50% mana regen and 10% cdr, you now lack the necessary ap or magic pen. if you rush seekers armgard you lack the cdr. 1200g if you rush rod you have a chance to kill him assuming you hit your first poke, and then go all in on him. if you go for just the mana regen first, and not a codex, by time hes level 6, you have 0 armor, and 0 ap, you will be decimated in a 1v1 at level 6.

i want you, to go and actually play the ahri - zed matchup, i have, many many times over, im also an ahri main, im straight up telling you, it DOESN'T work.

anything other than codex into morello/sorc boots, you wont kill him unless he massivley screwed up in lane or hes very inexperienced, an even opponent will crush you.

***if you rush zhonyas, no one wins, zed has better roams and pushing potential, he will push you in and make you waste all your mana just to farm, you will back, he will roam and get kills. ***

if you rush anything else, its not optimal to accomplish anything and you better have a good reason for doing so, good luck to you.

im telling you with 100% certainty, the ahri - zed matchup is all about skill shots, and who goes in first, if you dont have the confidence to win your lane, you have to pray they mess up, and you just have to stay even in farm or else its a flat lost lane, its that simple.

WarlockLaw1 votes

On ahri vs zed I rush morellonomicon into zhonyas, like I just said...

Also if you walk back to lane with a blasting rod vs zed on ahri, assuming he checks your build, he will just sit back under his tower and wait for you to go oom. Then he will kill you for free

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

On ahri vs zed I rush morellonomicon into zhonyas, like I just said...

Also if you walk back to lane with a blasting rod vs zed on ahri, assuming he checks your build, he will just sit back under his tower and wait for you to go oom. Then he will kill you for free

congrats, you survived the first 20minutes of the game without needing the zhonyas in the first place, therefore you could've rushed more damage in the first place......

WarlockLaw2 votes

Except zhonyas is a really high damage item only beat out by deathcap and ludens.

For deathcap I feel it is always a poor choice until third item as the utility of other items is just too good, and the damage spike from deathcap isn't that great as a first or second item.

Ludens is ok, but I don't like it on champions that are low cd spell spammers al la cass, ryze or Karthus; or on champions that function as assassins. You can justify it if you are fed however.

One thing to keep in mind is that Zed can likely kill you if you are even with him, so zhonyas can stop most of the damage from his ult, yes you can zhonyas to dodge some of his damage AND still block the death mark.

Saianna1 votes

One does not simply outskill Zed.

1000angrybees2 votes

I've always loved the "Zed vs Zhonya's" argument because yes, it's a decent item against Zed. It can counter the ult with good timing or the death mark at the end (as well as the ignite), but this is so genuinely flawed because no one talks about the BEFORE. Not to mention it's not even that advantageous in the first place, with the no mana/no mana regen and the amount of gold you need. I'd rather buy QSS to nullify death mark.

Professor Ward1 votes

This + knowing how to cs is all you need to gold

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

This + knowing how to cs is all you need to gold

I got to plat multiple times and I'm bad at that.

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ij95uFy9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-09-25T23:55:21.628+0000)

I got to plat multiple times and I'm bad at that.

didnt say you had to at all, i average under 50 cs a game as a support main just saying being able to cs very effectively can win games easy

IcyPepper1 votes

Identifying threats is also key.

Say you're in a game with two AP burst and one AD champion, and the AD champion is terribly behind. If I was playing a tank, I would build two MR/health items (since flat MR items aren't great...), and either an armor/health item (pure armor would be a no-no, health for the magic burst!) or armor/MR like GA. The AD champion isn't a threat, so a little armor to keep him irrelevant along with good HP and MR to keep the burst at bay.

in other words, don't itemize against the feeding support Sona when Master Yi is pentakilling your team :P

Fiveofswords1 votes

you are focusing too much on lane phase which isnt even that important. the real reason silvers lose is because they lack teamwork.

look at the top player games...they will usually make similar decisions. Because they are thinkign about their role in a team...and these these item choices while being suboptimal agaisnt that aprticular opponent shouldnt make you unable to farm in lane anymore.

Trash MammaI1 votes

"one of the biggest reasons" I'm aware there are more lol this is just something I see a crap ton in silver. Nobody wants to itemize. A jinx will buy a BT before she would QSS even when someone like say, veigar is causing her the most issues

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

This is why I'm so good at playing tanks. Because itemizing is just fun when you get to mix-and-match against what your enemy has picked.

Fiveofswords1 votes

you point is fine and all, you should alter your itemization based on what is going on in the game but its not jsut about your lane opponent and what damage they do. In fact its often more smart to build in a way that would be counterintuitive, if you were jsut focusing on your lane. And in same cases you simply need to hit certain power spikes that allow efficient wave clear (which both of your examples seem to be focused on)

Vlad has great sustain but his kill potential is quite low, especiall vs a malphite, even if malphite has no mr. The problem is that with his aoe vlad can clear waves quite well and malphite cant farm at turret. this is what would screw him. So that choice seems somewhat logical all things being equal. Of course if vlad is actually managing to kill malphite then hes jsut not playing well.

Ahri also should build to farm minions (rather than duel zed) because she probably cant kill zed. but zed shouldnt be able to kill her either. SHouldnt being the key word there. If he can then ahris better defense woudl actually be to waveclear faster so she doesnt have to sit around as long.

FantasySniper1 votes

Never rush item 3093

Kitten of Evil1 votes

When I mid, I decide how scared I am of the enemy and what type of damage they are -- if it's a Zed or Yasuo I go summoner 3 item 1029 , most others summoner 14 item 1056 unless very skillshot-focused enemy, where I start item 1001 . After all, in ranked you can usually figure out who you're laning against.

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