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I asked Riot Game if i could Break the Meta, Here is the Reply

Ahristocats··115 votes·11,542 views

Month or Months ago i was a mere Diamond player that had the idea of playing Darius in the botlane role. Starting from just being autofilled botlane, i realised that ADC Darius was actually legit, i started to DuoQ with a support and played it a lot

https://i.gyazo.com/3e13668217391cbe92e48ef91d304ad3.png And the result continued to be good, i climbed and we carried uncarryable games, and destroyed people https://i.gyazo.com/c5158e0c81215ce68b8021ce456e7a15.jpg

Now today since i achieved Master and was close to challenger (250 lp) i have this urge to make ADC Darius popular like Challenger players did with Ziggs in NA, ONCE riot fixes the game right now because Darius doesn't work if there aren't any CC in his team , and CC is a rare thing when mages are dominating the support role, and tanks are not seeing any plays except 2 or 3 picks, and Darius can't work if lethality ADC are going to damage him from 1500 range, and further more he can't work if he gets 2 shoted by assassins/lethality users.

But, the Thing is no matter what you do you will get flamed for that pick, and people will report you at the end of the game even if you did good while they gave food to the enemy team. I had once my toplane picking vayne because "we need an adc" then went 0/10 against yorick because he got camped and i got reported while we dominated botlane

So i asked directly the support what would happen if i get reported by players

https://i.gyazo.com/8472bd774c801fb0b370a8af10bb5f3f.png

https://i.gyazo.com/c979ccaefd97c345073b7b931d6da61d.png

And here we go friends, because i only understood one thing from this reply: i won't get banned for playing adc darius and this is a good thing because i will post this screenshot in every single damn selection so people chill out about reporting me at the end of the game

Now, i'm still trying to understand what he said. "state clearly to your team what you are about to do" this sentence is bringing me right into the darkness because i'm really not understanding i queued botlane, i picked darius. what do you want me to state? Do you in every game state to your team that you're going midlane viktor despite queuing mid and picking viktor? it doesn't make any sens

"and how it will work", how exactly am i supposed to do this? What do you mean by "it"? ADC is a role where someone deals damage for his team and carry, ADC Darius is a pick that deals massive damage, what the hell should i explain to my team? "Here is how it will work: ADC Darius deals tons of damage"? Why do i even have to explain how it will work? I also main jhin and i don't get why i don't explain how it will work for jhin, while i have to explain how it will work with darius. But even if i found somewhat an explination, do you think my allies will listen to me?

https://youtu.be/HfwuqCkq9ao?t=203

THIS IS how a selection goes when i pick adc darius. It's not "dude how adc darius can work?" it's allies raging immediatly at my pick and at this moment i'm nothing but a troll for them. like try to do the experience yourself, it just won't work. I tried once and my support told me that darius has no range, and when i asked how it matters he said "mutted"

And the last point is: let's suppose my allies want to listen to my explinations Explaining ADC Darius will take essays my entire guide on it was too long, and it will prevent them from thinking about the picks/bans. It will result in an endless debate on whether it's good or not, WHICH IS NOT THE POINT OF A RANKED SELECTION. It's like if you want to pick morde and then someone starts to argue about not picking morde (yeah malicious you know it's true) it's the same thing with adc darius

TLDR: why should you lose so much time, why should you do so much pointless talking when you play off-meta? i don't understand But it is riot, it is their rules and i will follow them to not get banned while being able to play what i want

edit:

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Id1ZctUp,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-03-01T16:09:37.080+0000)

Again something that i don't understand, because if i play jhin idon't need to do that, which doesn't make any sens at all and i did it like 2 or 3 times and then people banned/picked(in toplane) Darius, so i want to play the gmae without people preventing me to play the game and i find it a good reason to not declare Darius by selecting him

{quoted}

Umm, can you report for that?

https://i.gyazo.com/4bf7d7711970791d9ee5da5cda358326.png

217 Comments

Ambient Snow35 votes

The issue is the community that's really it 100% it has nothing to do with riot except the final verdict.

The problem is We play in NA

NA is very VERY VERY!!!! cookie cutter based religion,

YOU do ANY THING

and I mean ANY THING

out of the cookie cutter, BAM you get reported for trolling you are already seen in a negative light people already start raging about you in champion select.

That's really it. ITs been like this since season 2. honestly its kind of surprising to see this only now being seen in the lime light but yea. If you pick a champion in any role that people don't see it commonly expect to get reported for trolling by players raging.

The issue now is This reporting system will auto ban you after so many negative reports, then you have to go through the trouble of fighting it with customer support (which some times is good some times its bad) and as a defined situation like they say in their email .. " IF you don't act or do any thing toxic / negative then it won't be a issue"

Basically saying

" yes you can try out new stuff in the game, BUT! if you do any thing toxic or negative. then you will get punished for trying some thing new" in a sense

you trying some thing new is on the edge of being toxic, they will over look it if you try to be positive and supportive to your team. but you give them any reason to see it as negative and they will not hesitate to punish you

Ahristocats31 votes

they should start to ban people reporting you for picking an off meta champ then we will be good

ModAcademy Kayn14 votes

I mean, if they're harassing ya for picking off meta, and threatening to report ya for doing so, I hope they enjoy that ban :)

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Id1ZctUp,comment-id=001000000001,timestamp=2017-03-01T22:36:16.800+0000)

I mean, if they're harassing ya for picking off meta, and threatening to report ya for doing so, I hope they enjoy that ban :)

So you support a system that encourages players to do this?

You support a system that encourages toxicity because you're that much in love with being able to select a role?

Sheez...

Clueless.

ModAcademy Kayn19 votes

Jay, why must you put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say that.

I simply said, that if someone is giving you a hard time for playing off-meta, and is asking for others to report you, that is indeed reportable. This has nothing to do with roles, it has to do with people being jerks getting reported for being jerks.

Honestly dude.

RainbowIcee4 votes

That won't happen and the problem as mentioned is that people will report you for anything. The nunu player got banned because riot received sufficient reports to feel like they had to step in, it doesn't matter if they say you won't get banned for playing darius ADC all people have to do is argue against you enough times and you will get banned. They just need a common ground to do so. Apparently "not communicating with team" is very vague and it leaves a open can of ass wooping to report any one for anything for not convincing them that you had a legit or good idea. No matter what you do, " You did not convince me that what you did was a good idea and it annoyed me. " < - this will always be a fair argument based on evidence. We will argue forever on the nunu situation and it will come down to he left the adc alone to do other things. Which pretty much says "you didn't play like i feel comfortable you playing." The idea is that this is a strategy game so all of these things are viable options and fair and just play in fact they should be encouraged because it's the only way to win. If everyone mimic's you'll have a stale game until there's a mistake but ingenious strategies are the best way for victory, but if you take someone else's spotlight they can report you and come up with a personal viable report as to why you hurt their feelings and should not be playing the game.

It makes me sad because like you, i too have a viable strategy in the game that has work wonderfully for me. But when it doesn't work or people just get salty about it I most likely get reported about it. Though so far i haven't seen it not work.

statelesskiller8 votes

just yesterday i got bitched out for picking the bowser top lane against quinn. and since the jungler was graves i just got a full armor rune page. start cloth armor. laughed at how quinn hurt herself more then me. unfortunately the 4 man premade on my team bitched at me questioning the intelligence of this BUUUUUUT funny enough not only was i able to keep quinn shoved 24/7 because sunfire cape and thornmail eats minion waves alive. the few times she did roam ended with her getting kills no matter how far in advance i pinged mia. i even died to get our midlane azir a quadra kill. at 10 minutes. and he still couldnt carry

guess who they where blaming for losing?

SilverSlayer4258 votes

The really, really sad part is that Rammus isn't even really going off-meta by being played top, especially when it is triple physical. It honestly baffles me that people wouldn't think that, especially in that situation, Rammus wouldn't at least be "Okay".

RainbowIcee2 votes

I played rammus top like 3 years ago and have done so since every now and then. At first people saw it as trolling.. well now that it's becoming popular and accepted i know fear for nerfs. Sad times.. either take reports or nerfs.

Edge of Daybreak31 votes

You also forgot to include in your question that you were going to leave your lane and go jungle making your case different than the nunu one. Playing an off meta pick is not the same as playing an off meta pick queueing for a role then going to play a different role. I get where you are coming from but it's not the same.

Ahristocats20 votes

{quoted}

I get where you are coming from but it's not the same.

where the hell did i say it's the same? you mean in my question to the player support? i was just asking if i could get the same treatment but this thread isn't about support nunu, it's about myself playing adc darius and having to argue with allies over a pick because riot said i had to explain to them how it will work

Maddened King 6 votes

You shouldn't have to explain it. What is there to tell anyways? You are Darius Bottom. Bottom is not specific to ADC.

Anidan7 votes

It sounds like he's just taking DotA dynamism to League by playing a melee carry in a carry position. Morde didn't need to be made into a 'specialized melee carry' because that's how you bust something. A melee carry just needs some advantage to consider over a ranged carry, and in DotA2 that tends to be the combination of survivability with their damage. Anti-Mage, Bristleback, Chaos Knight, Sven, Spectre.. they all become very durable and with high damage output when they go a carry route. Darius is basically cut from the same cloth: build him with a bit of damage and a bit of durability and he'll be very survivable while outputting a lot of damage.

Angrychickén12 votes

I hate to agree with you, seeing as we differ on so many things, but I agree on the stupidity of having to argue with teammates over picks.

HudnofskiBleh4 votes

But it is the same. The player wanted to do something off meta (basically two junglers. No denying it's basically just another jungler.) But the strategy is getting hated because it doesn't go along with the 1 top 1mid 2bot meta. The argument I hear is that this style of play is bad for the ADC. How? Is the ADC literally a brain dead child that can't figure out that all he has to do is play more passively? Farm under tower, which will allow you to stay safe, have all of the CS you want without worrying about support taking it, and it's easier to get ganks from your TWO junglers since you are sitting under tower! I literally can't think of any good arguments as to why this guy deserves to be banned. He's also figured out a way to allow a typically bad champion to be usable! Players are always complaining about how the meta only allows a player to select a handful of champions if you want to climb, but get mad when this guy figures out how to make non meta picks viable.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Eh you have never played bot lane 1v2 against even slightly aggressive people if you think playing a little more passive so,CDs the problem. It soesnt. 1v2 bot is horrible.

Maximum Morde18 votes

Guarantee you that if you do it long enough they will go ahead and ban you for it though.

Ahristocats9 votes

If it happens i just can't understand why, i did nothing but played the game in an efficient way that carried me to diamond 1, and because i can't win with it in 100% of the time i get blamed in games for things i didn't do and get reported

blueberrypancake1 votes

How often do you get questioned about it in champ select?

Or do you just link your op.gg?

Ahristocats4 votes

my op.gg can't say that i play adc darius except when i'm on a winning streak on it, and yes i used to when i was duoing with scott mescudi

what i do most of the time is that i link the video i did, it doesn't change anything but i try to show them that i'm not trolling

arghilost17 votes

I tried once and my support told me that darius has no range, and when i asked how it matters he said "mutted"

lol mutted. Thats probably my favorite type of player in league, the ones that start shit talking and then say muted like you were bothering them or something

Ahristocats16 votes

best part is that they don't mute you

TheIronRevenant19 votes

"muted"

"what a dong"

"stfu dude"

jaymc113013 votes

Sigh...

If you are allowed to do this then riot has fucked up so completely with Take the Draw and this whole situation that I don't even know what to say.

How can they ban a player and then a few days later tell another they are allowed to do the same thing and not ban them...

Unban Take the Draw already, issue a public statement of apology, tell everyone exactly how wrong you were and why you were. Nothing else is acceptable at this point Riot, y'all have fucked up so badly here that it's legitimately unfathomable.

@DSxR well done with this, you've proven unequivocally that Riot has completely overstepped their bounds and violated the trust of all players. I applaud your efforts, good job mate.

Ahristocats9 votes

i mean i still don't understand why i should explain adc darius to allies

but i'll take it over not being able to play it

jaymc11309 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Id1ZctUp,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2017-03-01T20:35:57.360+0000)

i mean i still don't understand why i should explain adc darius to allies

but i'll take it over not being able to play it

No one can make heads or tails of it.

Riot just fucked up royally and now no one knows anything. Riot officially turned everyone into John Snow.

Elikain2 votes

I don't think you understand that being inflexible 100% of the time is clearly a sign of you not being a team player. That's negative attitude right here that creates negative gameplay experience.

jaymc11303 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand that being inflexible 100% of the time is clearly a sign of you not being a team player. That's negative attitude right here that creates negative gameplay experience.

So you also support the position of "all one tricks should be banned for one tricking".

Really really really stupid argument mate.

Like, really stupid.

Elikain3 votes

So you also support the position of "all one tricks should be banned for one tricking".

No, i don't support it. This was never discussed, by the way.

But there's no such thing as diehard one-tricking. The game simply isn't suited for one champion to fill all the positions in one team and be viable. Even Heisendong (who plays Heimer), sometimes has different picks for different situations.

Or maybe i should be using Tobias Fate as an example since i never saw him play anyone other than GP. But on what positions does he exclusively play GP and does he even play support/jungle with him?

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

No, i don't support it. This was never discussed, by the way.

But there's no such thing as diehard one-tricking. The game simply isn't suited for one champion to fill all the positions in one team and be viable. Even Heisendong (who plays Heimer), sometimes has different picks for different situations.

Or maybe i should be using Tobias Fate as an example since i never saw him play anyone other than GP. But on what positions does he exclusively play GP and does he even play support/jungle with him?

You can't have the cake and eat it to.

You either support the ToS as written and agree that players are allowed freedom to expirment and play what they like, exclusively, as protected by the ToS.

Or you don't and you support banning players who don't conform to the general accepted doctrines.

You CANNOT ban one player using stance 2, then flip it around and say you support stance one when this stance protects the player from stance 2.

Still invalid argument because illogical.

Please use a logical argument.

Elikain3 votes

The rules aren't black and while because people will always find a way to surf in the gray area. That way, you're still breaking the rules but technically you aren't crossing the line. Although i don't support the theory that one tricks should be banned, i can't agree that one-tricking a healthy way of playing this game.

One champion is not good in every position and since in League, you can't guarantee to be getting only the positions you want to be playing, you have to take this into the account as well. Sometimes, the team lets you play what you want and sometimes, you help them round up the team comp they need to win. If you're telling me "I don't want to adapt because there's nowhere it says that i HAVE TO", what kind of an attitude is that?

Or are you telling me that your attitude is not important in a competitive game and that as long as you're trying to win, you can do whatever you want? Because that's exactly what Riot has said "winning the game is not end-all-be-all requirement". You don't have to be all buddy-buddy with random people but you don't also have to be an asshole.

jaymc11305 votes

{quoted}

The rules aren't black and while because people will always find a way to surf in the gray area. That way, you're still breaking the rules but technically you aren't crossing the line. Although i don't support the theory that one tricks should be banned, i can't agree that one-tricking a healthy way of playing this game.

One champion is not good in every position and since in League, you can't guarantee to be getting only the positions you want to be playing, you have to take this into the account as well. Sometimes, the team lets you play what you want and sometimes, you help them round up the team comp they need to win. If you're telling me "I don't want to adapt because there's nowhere it says that i HAVE TO", what kind of an attitude is that?

Or are you telling me that your attitude is not important in a competitive game and that as long as you're trying to win, you can do whatever you want? Because that's exactly what Riot has said "winning the game is not end-all-be-all requirement". You don't have to be all buddy-buddy with random people but you don't also have to be an asshole.

Neither is what I'm saying.

I'm saying that the burden isn't on one person to learn to adapt and play with everyone else. It's on EVERYBODY to learn to adapt and play with everyone. That means all his teammates need to EQUALLY respect his rights as a player and play with his style if that's what he wants to do and HE needs to adapt his style to each team and game to play in a positive fashion towards a win.

It's clear that Take the Draw was doing this, doing what was in the best interest of the team.

But his teammates were not, flamed him, falsely reported him, and had him banned for their poor attitudes and rigid, inflexible, playstyle.

Which isn't right and threatens the health of the game negatively in a way that is orders of magnitude greater.

Aptest3 votes

to be fair, some of his in game comments are snide passive aggressive bullshit...

...not ban worthy though.

Leetri5 votes

It's not the same thing. If he'd queue ADC, pick Darius, then instead go counter jungling the entire game no matter what his team said THEN we'd have the same case. Take the Draw wouldn't have been banned if he'd pick Nunu support with smite and played in the bot lane. Tons of people play champions in uncommon positions and don't get punished at all, but they at least play the position they queued up for.

jaymc11305 votes

{quoted}

It's not the same thing. If he'd queue ADC, pick Darius, then instead go counter jungling the entire game no matter what his team said THEN we'd have the same case. Take the Draw wouldn't have been banned if he'd pick Nunu support with smite and played in the bot lane. Tons of people play champions in uncommon positions and don't get punished at all, but they at least play the position they queued up for.

No.

Jeez you people have no brains.

It's the exact same thing.

THE RULES OF THE TOS EXPLICITLY STATE THAT THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF WHAT A PLAYER SHOULD BE DOING OR EVEN THAT A ROLE OR FUNCTION IS REQUIRED IN ANY GAME THAT WILL EVER BE PLAYED.

It is up to the players to work together for the good of the team, that is the ONLY rule regarding what players can do in game. If a player thinks counterjungling will give his team a better chance to win then it is his right to make that choice, regardless of the position being played.

You people have got to start using your brains, you're wrong every time you spout this nonsense and it's been proven time and again the last few days. Furthermore the overwhelming majority of the community despises you trying to force your definition of how the game should be played upon everyone, more than 80% of us disapprove of you trying to do so.

Stop posting nonsense. Your entire stance is invalid, the rules say so, and the community says so.

GayFluffyUnicorn7 votes

80% of the hivemind boards maybe, not the community. Forcing their definition on you? You mean like nunu guy forces his playstyle onto his teammates?

jama65511 votes

we will see you on boards again in about 3 months talking about ur unjust ban.

Skias8 votes

I've taken Master Yi bot before with Exhaust. It was all crying and whining until I was on my 2nd Quadra.

Around999People4 votes

Rofl

Reminded me of when I went Yi jg and was 0/7 and was flamed to hell. End game was 16/8 XD

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

Hey when the guy says to declare your pick, it means to "declare" Darius by selecting him in the lobby before the bans start.

They don't want you to have it blank then change to Darius at the last second when you lock in.

Ahristocats15 votes

{quoted}

They don't want you to have it blank then change to Darius at the last second when you lock in.

Again something that i don't understand, because if i play jhin idon't need to do that, which doesn't make any sens at all and i did it like 2 or 3 times and then people banned/picked(in toplane) Darius, so i want to play the gmae without people preventing me to play the game and i find it a good reason to not declare Darius by selecting him

Ralanr3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Id1ZctUp,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-03-01T16:09:37.080+0000)

Again something that i don't understand, because if i play jhin idon't need to do that, which doesn't make any sens at all and i did it like 2 or 3 times and then people banned/picked(in toplane) Darius, so i want to play the gmae without people preventing me to play the game and i find it a good reason to not declare Darius by selecting him

If you ignore how the majority of people perceive champions and their roles, then yeah it doesn't make sense.

Ahristocats12 votes

You think that the majority that never ever had the idea of adc darius going through their mind, knows better than me when: -they never tried it, i tried it and A LOT OF TIME -they never thought about it, and i thought about it with tons of theorycraft

it's NOT EVEN THE MAJORITY WTF, it's just one fucking dude

Ralanr2 votes

Do they know better than you? That's up to interpretation.

Do they think they know better than you? Yes. That's obvious whenever someone points out to someone that they are doing things differently.

Now yes, they have never tried it and probably never seen it. So you're basically asking someone to trust in a total stranger to accomplish a cheese strategy when it's already hard enough to trust in a total stranger to accomplish a regular strategy.

You can say that you're an expert (giving an example) on the subject but that's not going to stop people from eyeing you suspiciously if your ideas are different from the norm. In fact, that's usually the expected reaction whenever a new invention, scientific theory, or any "crazy" idea is brought up.

Because in the end, people are not comfortable with change (as showcased with every goddamn preseason) and are usually going to be against it unless they are the ones to propose it.

Ahristocats6 votes

{quoted}

Do they know better than you? That's up to interpretation.

I don't see how, there are no logical arguments for ADC Darius to not work, and if you don't believe me it wouldn't have made me winning that much games

{quoted}

Do they think they know better than you? Yes. That's obvious whenever someone points out to someone that they are doing things differently.

this makes sens

{quoted}

Now yes, they have never tried it and probably never seen it. So you're basically asking someone to trust in a total stranger to accomplish a cheese strategy when it's already hard enough to trust in a total stranger to accomplish a regular strategy.

And there is nothing wrong with that, that is how solo queue worked since 2011

{quoted}

Because in the end, people are not comfortable with change (as showcased with every goddamn preseason) and are usually going to be against it unless they are the ones to propose it.

in the end, you didn't provide and argument against me to pick ADC Darius despite my team telling me to not pick it you didn't provide an argument on why it's legit for them to ban/pick darius and not let me play the game

Ralanr3 votes

Whoever said I was arguing against you picking adc Darius or why it's ok for them to ban him?

Ahristocats2 votes

what are we arguing for? i said to tyrek that i don't declare darius because they will ban or pick it and that we can't blame me for not declaring darius because i want to play the game

Ralanr2 votes

My original question was how you would change things so this problem didn't occur and you just gave me a result, not an idea of how to do it.

What I pointed out in this part of the thread was that you seem to be overvaluing your own viewpoint that you're alienating the viewpoint of the people you're playing with. That's how I was seeing it anyway and the motivation for my dip into basic psychology in my previous explanation.

Ahristocats5 votes

{quoted}

My original question was how you would change things so this problem didn't occur and you just gave me a result, not an idea of how to do it.

by making it popular, how else? it's the only thing that made support malzahar adc ziggs and other stuff not bannable

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