I really don't understand nerfs like these...

option paralysis·Mar 18, 2017·97 votes·5,159 views

Quinn ultimate AD ratio decreased from 100% to 40%. I don't even play Quinn and I agree she needs some nerfs but why would you nerf the one thing nobody complained about. I never said 'oh fuck that ult aoe dmg is too strong, that's why we lost'. No, you lost because she 2-3 shots you with EQAA. And then you see the nerf on her AD ult ratio, which already didn't do that much. There were a lot of this kind of nerfs, where they want to make a champ clunky so it won't be picked as much. I don't get it.

60 Comments

Chembaron YamadaMar 18, 201755 votes

They actually decreased the damage of the assassination pattern you described here with that change. Mostly Quinn is going in with her ult active. Then she uses EQAA. When she is jumping on a target with E and therefore cancels her ult, the damage is triggered. Right now the damage was equal 100% of her AD.

If she does the exact same combo now, she will do less burst damage, because the ratio got lowered from 100% to 40%. If she was going in with her ult, that damage will always hit you when she jumps on you with E. So in fact, the burst is lower than before.

KhadaverMar 18, 20171 votes

Yea, i thought her ult was part of the burst but i wasn't sure, i rarely see a Quinn do nearly as much dmg without it.

Chembaron YamadaMar 18, 201717 votes

By the way on top of that: It seems Riot tries to shift Quinn from lethality to crit builds with that change, too. The nerf is harder for lethality builds, since the ult damage is increased with that stat but not with crit. And crit builds (which are more suited for sustained damage) get a compensating buff with the increased attack speed from the W.

Sir FuzziMar 20, 20171 votes

The issue is that the 60% AD will probably look to the tune of 180 damage. If that's all it takes to stop Quinn's roll... she was probably only winning on enemy misplays.

I've never understood Riot's balance terribly well (4 base AD removed from Vayne, it's balanced! 4 base AD removed from Ekko, it's balanced!) but I'm assured it works. Nonetheless, it seems that OP's complaint is that this was never a substantial source of her damage; it adds up for certain, but chunking it isn't going to remove her capacity for damage as much as it's going to gently nudge her considerations for what a sure engage will be.

In other words, people will still be dying to the same patterns from Quinn; the bad Quinn players will just get punished more. That's a good thing, but probably not why people are fussed with her in the first place.

Asayake 5150glowMar 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They actually decreased the damage of the assassination pattern you described here with that change. Mostly Quinn is going in with her ult active. Then she uses EQAA. When she is jumping on a target with E and therefore cancels her ult, the damage is triggered. Right now the damage was equal 100% of her AD.

If she does the exact same combo now, she will do less burst damage, because the ratio got lowered from 100% to 40%. If she was going in with her ult, that damage will always hit you when she jumps on you with E. So in fact, the burst is lower than before.

Sadly, that's not the actual combo, just the one that's been used because it works.

The actual combo is auto+instantly E (it does not cancel your auto attack)+auto+Q+auto.

SpookyNeedleMar 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

They actually decreased the damage of the assassination pattern you described here with that change. Mostly Quinn is going in with her ult active. Then she uses EQAA. When she is jumping on a target with E and therefore cancels her ult, the damage is triggered. Right now the damage was equal 100% of her AD.

If she does the exact same combo now, she will do less burst damage, because the ratio got lowered from 100% to 40%. If she was going in with her ult, that damage will always hit you when she jumps on you with E. So in fact, the burst is lower than before.

You missed 1 (maybe 2 AA's depending where n the situation) with that combo

Chembaron YamadaMar 19, 20172 votes

I am aware that the actual combo is more complex, I just copied what OP said because it isn't relevant.

Quinn mostly goes in with her ult and so the damage always triggers, unrelated to the following combo. It is still a nerf for her burst.

SkyBlade79Mar 19, 20172 votes

Yeah, that makes perfect sense with obvious logic, but what are the boards going to complain about now?

The DeckownerMar 18, 201710 votes

This is the typical rito way of balance: A champion has abcd 4 strengths, and a is what made the champion broken beyond believe, Rito decided instead of nerfing a which is op, they will nerf b first, then c, then d. The champion became super unsatisfying to play due to it having a as the only strength and everything else in the kit got nerfed, but still op due to a just being so strong. Rito finally nerfs a, and the champion is left in the guttedville.

RavenMagusMar 18, 201722 votes

Not always. Sometimes nerfing B or C actually does work.

And it's a preferred method of balancing. If you always nerf A, then you eventually have a pool of champions that are pretty mediocre at everything. If you nerf Bs and Cs instead, then you let a champion keep their strengths while highlighting their weaknesses more, making them much more interesting.

Beacon AcademyMar 18, 20173 votes

Malzahar That worked out real well didn't it?

ElikainMar 19, 20171 votes

Don't understand this Malzahar problem. Play him on mid and he does exactly the same thing he does on bot. If he's ridiculously valued as a bot laner thanks to his CC and 0 damage (because he isn't buying any major AP items), what's exactly worse for him when playing him mid with an access to mage levels of AP? It's a pretty sheepish attitude to have "Malzahar is bad because everyone says so and because he's now a support". People took him there, Riot didn't force him. And if he was played as a mid laner and not bot, his Voidlings wouldn't have even been nerfed in the first place.

Now let's talk about dual roles for champions: You can't have a mage with high base damage ratios switch from a mid laner to a bot laner and Riot not nerfing them. Because that strength (to scale without items) naturally pushes the Supports out of the lane. And equally, you can't have a good AP ratio + utility support that can become a competitor to a default mid mage. This dual role for champions has to respect the natural order of things. If tanks and Juggernauts are the usual top laners (for example), AD/AP carries can't overtake that lane and push out every other beefy champion that no longer has no place to go.

Beacon AcademyMar 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UUxTqEgF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-17T22:53:11.114+0000)

TBH, there was always a possibility of Malzahar being a support... Even before the rework.

HOWEVER, the reason why he wasn't a support pre-rework was due to the fact that:

He had high base damage (Q-300/E-320/R-550 in Flat Damage)

He had high AP Ratios (QE-80%/W-1% Per 100 AP/R-130% AP Scaling)

Voidlings were actually tanky and scaled with 100% Bonus AD & Bonus Armor Pen

As a mage, he depended on his spells, which meant exp was one of if not the most important resource for him to get. Because he needed exp, being in a duo lane was inefficient. That is why Malzahar was typically played mid, top, or occasionally jungle.

Being immobile wasn't as much of a hindrance to old Malzahar because due to his high base damage and ratios, he had to power to shove lanes and fight back during ganks... Especially when he had an adult or frenzied Voidling out.

The way that Voidlings also scaled, allowed you to build either AP or AD without being overpowered because you were only focusing your funding into either your spells or into your Voidlings.

Finally because of the point and click nature of his CC, Nether Grasp, he was able to counter the mainstream mobile champs that filled the mid lane roster.

Target beats Mobility (Because point and click) Mobility beats Range (Because skill shots have to be aimed) Range beats Target (Because skill shots are typically longer in range than target abilities)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Malzahar before the rework, who had only been given a single minor nerf during a 5 or so year period, was pretty much as balanced as he was gonna get.

This new Malzahar on the other hand, made it easy for the masses who didn't play Malzahar before to play him, mainly due to the shield that forgave positioning mistakes.

When Malzahar was shown to be oppressive in the jungle due to his Voidlings being able to tank dragons and baron, the Voidlings got nerfed repeatedly.

When Malzahar was shown to be oppressive in the top lane due to being ranged, he had his auto attack range reduced and his movement speed reduced by five as well.

When Malzahar was shown to be oppressive in general because the shield was too strong, they double nerfed the shield without giving any compensation buffs.

Even before the rework came out, base damage and ratios were lowered for Q and E while entirely removing the flat damage from his R, which was the main reason assassins were weary of his level 6 in lane.

Basically this current Malzahar has little reason to lane by himself when he lacks power and can instead allow another champion with more up front damage to take mid lane while being a support who has an ADC to cover up for his lack of kill damage.

TL;DR If you want Malzahar back mid, move damage back to his actual spells or revert him

From another thread but I thought it'd apply here.

ElikainMar 19, 20171 votes

OK, so here is Malzahar's damage and ratios:

##Q: Call of the Void

MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 70% AP)

#W: Void Swarm

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 (+ 40% bonus AD) BONUS MAGIC DAMAGE: 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 (+ 20% AP)

##E: Malefic Visions

TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 (+ 70% AP)

##R: Nether Grasp

TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE: 25 / 35 / 45% (+ 7.5% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health

Let's compare him to Syndra (a staple mid laner):

##Q: Dark Sphere

MAGIC DAMAGE: 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+ 75% AP)

##W: Force of Will

MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 70% AP)

##E: Scatter the Weak

MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 50% AP)

##R: Unleashed Power

MAGIC DAMAGE PER SPHERE: 90 / 135 / 180 (+ 20% AP)

Well, someone's really BSing on these boards because it looks to me like Malzahar does damage and has excellent AP ratios. So i don't really know where this "he's a shit mid laner now" came from at all. People simply stopped playing him there and that doesn't mean because he was weak.

Beacon AcademyMar 20, 20174 votes

I feel as if you didn't read what I put up there.

I was saying Malzahar's up front damage, which is what allowed him to deal with lane opponents, was lowered. The biggest one being the flat damage being removed from his ult due to being combined with Null Zone. If Malzahar can't kill as quickly as before, it allows the enemy laner to counter. This is especially true if they happen to get a QSS. The old ult allowed the flat damage to continue through since QSS only negated hard CC's. The new ult, once QSS'd, can just be walked off of. Even if they don't get QSS, with the ult's damage being purely DoT, each tick of damage will get mitigated by any MR they have.

This is why people have opted to take Malzahar bot lane as support:

To allow champions with more "burst" to occupy the mid lane.
To cover for the lack of kill damage by having an ADC there.
The community commonly believed Malzahar is just a "suppression," therefore lv 6 is all that matters for him due to the fact that his Ult will last 2.5 seconds max at any rank.

Anything can be played anywhere, But...

Just because something works, doesn't mean it works well.

For the record, lets compare:

Malzahar's Q:

300 (80% AP) Magic Damage / 3 Second Silence [Able to double hit if target is hit right]

230 (70% AP) Magic Damage / 2 Second Silence [Vision granted on casted area decreased to a sliver]

Malzahar's E:

320 (80% AP) Magic Damage / 4 Second Duration [Bouncing restored 10-26 flat mana depending on rank]

220 (70% AP) Magic Damage / 4 Second Duration [Can Reset timer via Q and/or R] [Bouncing restores 2% of max mana at any rank]

Just these two skills alone:

620 (160% AP) Raw Magic Damage

450 (140% AP) Raw Magic Damage

I don't know about you, but thats a pretty big difference.

Malzahar's W:

6% + (1% per 100 AP) Enemy Max HP Magic Damage / 5 Seconds

9% + (1.5% per 100 AP) Enemy Max HP Magic Damage / 5 Seconds [Moved to Ult]

Malzahar's R:

550 (130% AP) Magic Damage / 2.5 Second Suppression

0 Damage / 2.5 Second Suppression

Lets compare this combo shall we? Lets Assume you have 500 AP

On a 2000 Health Target:

(550 + 650) + (2000 x 0.55) = 2300 Raw Magic Damage

0 + (2000 x 0.825) = 1650 Raw Magic Damage

. . . . . .

Obviously The second will begin doing more damage based on how high the Enemy's Health is, however that is hardly the case in reality due to the fact that most people walk off of the pool after the suppression is over, which is why the flat damage is valuable as it is a guaranteed portion of damage going through.

As for the Voidlings... while the older ones did a lot of damage in their frenzied state, the newer Voidlings probably have more damage due to being able to multiply.

However, passive-wise you could also say the old Voidlings definitely did more damage over a 21 second period than Malzahar's current passive.

Not to mention old Voidlings were useful outside of farming CS or Killing players as they were able to tank 3-4 tower shots when in adult form due to the 50% increase in armor after 7 seconds of life. That alone allowed Malzahar to push towers more effectively than new Malzahar who's Voidlings die in one hit to towers and wouldn't last long enough after clearing a minion wave to even hit the tower.

(i.e. Timing the end of the Voidling's adult period to the beginning of it's frenzied period to go in on a tower right after the tower begins targeting a cannon minion... resulting in massive damage for the tower)

[Frenzied Voidlings: +50% Physical Damage / +50% Armor / +100% Attack Speed]

Bottom line is:

Malzahar's burst has decreased Malzahar's DoT is mitigated by MR per tick Malzahar's Power Budget is in a pet that requires him to be nearby as a squishy mage His minion push is around the same, but his tower pushing is lacking severely The number of mobile champions are increasing The amount of MR increased this season Experience isn't as important to him now, because he is more about his Ult than about actual damage

He doesn't have the fire power to fight back unless he blantantly sets it up, which doesn't mean shit for the mobile or far ranged champions that occupy mid lane.

That is why people are bringing him to bot lane.

Edit: You also compared his DoT damage to Syndra... An actual burst mage that does the damage faster. Bruh... ._.

YumaS2AstralMar 19, 20175 votes

But it almost always doesn't work.

They did that with post-rework Kassadin. They nerfed everything on his kit except his ult, which was the reason why he was a beast in LCS. When Riot finally nerfed his ult by decreasing its range, Kassadin became essentially gutted. It took several buffs to allow Kassadin to be viable again (but not broken). Even after all those buffs though, Kassadin never became a really strong champion again.

They did that with Malzahar too. It was the passive that was making him a broken mid laner. However, Riot nerfed all of his kit but the passive until they finally nerfed the passive then Malzahar was left in a state where he was really unsatisfying to play at mid lane. However he was still balanced until for some reason Riot decided it was a good idea to rework his voidlings and this made Malzahar not only viable, but broken as a support.

They are essentially doing that with Shen now. He is strong in LCS due to his ult. But for some reason Riot keeps nerfing other things on his kit. When they finally realize that his ult is the problem, they will nerf it and they will probably not revert previous nerfs, leaving Shen gutted.

SwiftKitten88Mar 19, 20173 votes

{quoted}

But it almost always doesn't work.

They did that with post-rework Kassadin. They nerfed everything on his kit except his ult, which was the reason why he was a beast in LCS. When Riot finally nerfed his ult by decreasing its range, Kassadin became essentially gutted. It took several buffs to allow Kassadin to be viable again (but not broken). Even after all those buffs though, Kassadin never became a really strong champion again.

They did that with Malzahar too. It was the passive that was making him a broken mid laner. However, Riot nerfed all of his kit but the passive until they finally nerfed the passive then Malzahar was left in a state where he was really unsatisfying to play at mid lane. However he was still balanced until for some reason Riot decided it was a good idea to rework his voidlings and this made Malzahar not only viable, but broken as a support.

They are essentially doing that with Shen now. He is strong in LCS due to his ult. But for some reason Riot keeps nerfing other things on his kit. When they finally realize that his ult is the problem, they will nerf it and they will probably not revert previous nerfs, leaving Shen gutted.

this hits the nail on the coffin.. riot needs to stop trying to nerf thing that affect the issue and nerf the issue itself...

PeponiPoroMar 19, 20171 votes

^^^^ I agree with this. Sometimes, they should have tried D or E before B or C, but I like that they don't usually resort to A first.

ForeverLaxxMar 19, 20172 votes

All you've done is parrot Riot's idiotic balancing paradigm. It doesn't matter if the weakness is "highlighted" when said weaknesses are never allowed to be leveraged in an average game. What ends up happening is that the unbalanced problem skill eventually gets hit, and then the champion becomes useless.

Ran into this early on with Vlad. Nerf after nerf to him even after the Q-range nerf (which was honestly justified, even as a Vlad main). It took them forever to realize that Spell Vamp stacking was the actual problem, and once that was removed, Vlad was left in his unusable state until his most recent rework.

This is how Riot goes about doing things. Pull the wrong levers until they're forced to finally pull the right one, but then never push the wrong levers back to where they were until it's time to hit the Reset button.

WingsofGulgazorMar 18, 20178 votes

you don't have to nerf what people complain about to lower how strong she is. Taking away 60% scaling on anything on any champion will lower there power or how well they can snowball or take a lead.

General Esdeath Mar 18, 20174 votes

She uses her ult for literally nothing but roaming/chasing. It could do zero damage and Quinn wouldn't notice.

RottedApplesMar 18, 20175 votes

i just want to play old quinn again.

VelasanMar 18, 20175 votes

Isn't it obvious? They nerfed her burst damage but made it easier to stick to people for sustained damage.

In other words, harder to zoom in and instantly destroy someone, but easier to run in and kite them down a lane so they die.

69469238DEL1Mar 18, 20173 votes

Its because RIOT thinks she only slightly needs to be toned down.

FluffySoxOfDoomMar 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Primordial Hydra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IVnThB34,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-18T16:18:53.088+0000)

Its because RIOT thinks she only slightly needs to be toned down.

She isn't broken anymore. To be honest she wasn't that broken before they just made lethality op again which in turn buffed her. It was lethality that was the problem imo not her.

agbudarMar 18, 20173 votes

i think this is more of a carefull way of nerfing her then anything else. wont really touch her combo but removes some of the overkill damage.

personally i dont think this will affect her in the least as the ult damage was only ever usefull in team fights which is not something she (should) excel at

Guy Fox TeemoMar 19, 20173 votes

THose nerfs are to just shave off unneeded power, which is what the ult is; Unneeded power on her kit.

It doesn't make her clunky; It shaves off some of her power.

Arsenic SulfurMar 18, 20172 votes

Simple answer is power budgeting. Riot could like her strengths but not the amount of them. So they lower or remove a strength.

BlåbæretMar 19, 20172 votes

Quinn doesn't need any nerfs. Lethality is what broke her and all the other lethality abusers.

sobi999Mar 19, 20172 votes

That's why riot has currently the best balancing team ever in existence. #NOT

6SfoolMar 20, 20172 votes

They hurt her drive-by potential, and gave more conditional power in the form of attack speed on her w. Don't call them nerfs when they are actually just changes. I don't think it will be quite enough to give her actual counterplay (vault into blind is absurd), but it's a start.

PaffWasTakenMar 20, 20172 votes

One word: Ego If the community complains about Something, riot will ignore it for the longest period of time they can, and when they'll finally fix it because they are receiving some serious complains, they'll change it in a way the players didn't thought/wanted just to claim "they fixed it because of their godly judgement so them and only them has the last word and they are the one who makes the best décisions"

example: - Kindred got their W passive massively nerfed just to lower their general strenght, instead of changing their base damage like the community wanted - Vladimir 's mage rework was entirely based on his basic capacities and didn't touch his ult, while everyone was saying his ult should've get some change - Mordekaiser was really expected from the community to be changed in a way he'll fit more in the role he already was. Riot put him in an entirely different role - Malzahar was a mage that was really fine before his rework, he was solid in his role and his unique gameplay was balanced. Riot got triggered by this and wanted to prove the opposite, so after he'll be "more in his control-mage thematic" - Aatrox was the community's #1 request for FULL rework for yeaaaaaaars. Riot didn't want to admit it so it's been already about 10 reworks they push back this idea

Yaśuo MainMar 20, 20172 votes

LeeSin got his ultimate nerfed which no one complained about too much ( RQQ in general was just stupid, they never made the attempt to make Lee Sin combo reliant ), then never did anything about his Q literally being able to deal more damage than his R at rank 1, and kept his E a damageless CC instead of shifting power around.

DaNinadMar 18, 20171 votes

They want to make quinn less of an assassin and more of an adc cause the top laners complained

zaire90Mar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They want to make quinn less of an assassin and more of an adc cause the top laners complained

didnt they say they wanted to keep assassin quinn

FriusMar 18, 20171 votes

i always thought it deals horrid damage ,extremly low.

Whut Thuh Mar 19, 20171 votes

imo, quin isnt that good. she just cheeses the hell out of her usually melee laner, and when they are starved of farm and have a negative kda she roams all over at the speed of fukin sound. now with comms its not such a big deal since you can, as a team, discern her movements and relative position. but in solo q she just rampages all over.

yes i understand her combo is annoying, but its only deadly when shes way ahead. (which is often i know) my theory is that they should increase the sight range of her q blindness and increase its cooldown

again all of this is just imo

The DegenerateMar 19, 20171 votes

I mean yeah her ult is trivial first of all I don't even think it deals that much base damage, but nerfing the scale on an early game champion is dangerous ... like nerf by 20% max but wtf 60% ? LeBlanc anyone ?

Kimmy KMar 19, 20171 votes

Ult isn't the BIGGEST problem but it does contribute a bit when she zooms in and dive-bombs you. Damage from E should be removed and it should be purely utility and Q base damage and scaling could be tweaked a little imo. The attack speed changes they have planned for her W are good and they should buff or change her passive so that she becomes more auto-attack reliant. She's a marksman but gets played like an assassin. That's a problem. Lethality is good on ad assassins because they're melee champions that need to get into a fight, take down a priority target quickly and then get out before jumping back in and moving onto the next. When a ranged champion is building it (Varus and Quinn for example), it quickly becomes a HUGE problem because counterplay is just eliminated. Varus was able to just Q you over and over again from 1000+ range. Quinn can just fly in and dive bomb you, Jhin and MF could ult and one shot you, etc.

Asayake 5150glowMar 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kimmy K,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IVnThB34,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-03-19T04:55:14.560+0000)

Ult isn't the BIGGEST problem but it does contribute a bit when she zooms in and dive-bombs you. Damage from E should be removed and it should be purely utility and Q base damage and scaling could be tweaked a little imo. The attack speed changes they have planned for her W are good and they should buff or change her passive so that she becomes more auto-attack reliant. She's a marksman but gets played like an assassin. That's a problem. Lethality is good on ad assassins because they're melee champions that need to get into a fight, take down a priority target quickly and then get out before jumping back in and moving onto the next. When a ranged champion is building it (Varus and Quinn for example), it quickly becomes a HUGE problem because counterplay is just eliminated. Varus was able to just Q you over and over again from 1000+ range. Quinn can just fly in and dive bomb you, Jhin and MF could ult and one shot you, etc.

Yeah, except Quinn is a primary marksman secondary assassin. Lethality is a perfectly respectable build on her.

Also, Quinn's already hella auto attack reliant, most of her damage comes from those actually.

Lethality is good for any AD damage dealer, not just assassins. However, it's intended for assassins. Luckily, Quinn is one!

"Quinn can just fly in and dive bomb you" Oh, is that not what an assassin is supposed to do? It's not like it doesn't work if you've any form of defensive peel or damage around you?

Kimmy KMar 19, 20171 votes

You must've not watched the Dong Huap video lmao. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c32lXp4O5a4

Asayake 5150glowMar 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kimmy K,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IVnThB34,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2017-03-19T17:21:10.104+0000)

You must've not watched the Dong Huap video lmao. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c32lXp4O5a4

I am unable to, and haven't. Also, who the hell is Dong Huap? Heard of him a few times, but that's it.

What is your point?

ZT XperimentorMar 19, 20171 votes

Seems like riot is being spiteful . . . again.

BlakiepugMar 19, 20171 votes

R.I.P. Azir W. Removed from the champ when Q damage was the issue. Then Q damage nerfed next patch anyways.

Asayake 5150glowMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

R.I.P. W. Removed from the champ when Q damage was the issue. Then Q damage nerfed next patch anyways.

Q cooldown is the real issue, if I outplay you by baiting out your soldiers too far up and then jump on you, you shouldn't be able to Q me again only a few seconds later.

Azir shouldn't use his Q for anything except repositioning and burst. Right now, he Q's you instantly no matter what, because it's cooldown is low enough that it doesn't matter if he can't reposition his damage for a few seconds - by the time you get out of it's range and become a threat, it's up again.

BlakiepugMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Q cooldown is the real issue, if I outplay you by baiting out your soldiers too far up and then jump on you, you shouldn't be able to Q me again only a few seconds later.

Azir shouldn't use his Q for anything except repositioning and burst. Right now, he Q's you instantly no matter what, because it's cooldown is low enough that it doesn't matter if he can't reposition his damage for a few seconds - by the time you get out of it's range and become a threat, it's up again.

In his current state he kind of needs that though. He had too much removed from his kit for him to be nerfed again at this point tbh.

Asayake 5150glowMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In his current state he kind of needs that though. He had too much removed from his kit for him to be nerfed again at this point tbh.

Honestly it's not a good meta for Azir. Even if he were moderately strong, he'd still be weak because he is DPS based. That cooldown makes him really hard to play around and leaves him with very few weaknesses when he's strong, and when he's weak it does nothing because he'll lose anyway. Fixing it is a good start to fixing Azir, because with that, he keeps his 'identity' as a mage who does everything.

Jeanne fan clubMar 19, 20171 votes

Probably to reduce her ult roaming e initiation roam burst, and her waveclear.

ShrîkeMar 24, 20171 votes

I wish they would just outright remove Skystrike at this point. Literally worthless now. The only thing it is good for now is procing TLD, you can't rely on it clearing waves anymore. Remove skystrike and add power else where.