"Phantom-Hit" passive may just be too hard to balance.

JavelinJoe··4 votes·1,726 views

It is just too easy to abuse damaging passive on-hits to compensate for not building full damage builds. Basically treat it like vayne where you only care about how frequent you can attack rather than how hard you hit. Quantity over quality and such. But having that type of passive synergizes with too many unique and different champions and is compleatly worthless on others. This is a tricky problem where finding a balance may infact be impossible and just nerfing it might make it not worth purchasing at all because it can't cover other damage sources in terms of offensive power.

Back when the passive was on devourer, it synergised too easily with the attack speed you gained from devourer and other items which also had on-hit effects such as rageblade and bork. But with the passive moved onto rageblade now, you actually might have just cut out the middle man and made the "brokenness" of "sated rageblade" become easily acquirable on a single item without having to take smite. While this may or may not be game breaking, it certainly is not a step in the right direction, at least in my opinion. In addition, with the added bloodrazor passive of 3% max health as physical damage on-hit effect, I feel that the power was actually increased instead of rebalanced, and at a cost of only a few extra pieces gold more.

It is a bit concerning that the very item synergies that "broke" many champions such as Master Yi and Xin Zhao, have been made easier to acquire and even possibly boosted in power from its original state. To me this does not seem like balancing at all and more like buffing the champs since even though they are abused in lower elo ranks, they rarely see competitive play because of their basically straightforward build paths and limited kits to play around outplays and team fights. For example, if you see a Yi you already assume he will have sated devourer as the jungle item, and then get rageblade or bork or some other good on-hit item and then go on a semi-tanky/bruiser like build path. And I feel it contradicts the recent Yi changes which were meant to force him to get an additional offensive item to have good damage output. Since the 3% max health is very nice when paired with phantom-hit, he already has good damage right there.

I would rather see phantom-hit retired or at least disabled for further testing around how to balance it. It is a cool passive but I feel that it may just be too hard to balance effectivly.

EDIT: So were all clear, this is not a post about rageblade. It is only looking at the phantom hit passive, which now just happens to be on rageblade. I used rageblade as an example to show synergies commonly used with the phantom-hit passive and because it is what the passive is now on. The focus still being the passive not the item as a whole.

12 Comments

xxxDogmanxxx3 votes

You do realize that Rageblade got extremely NERFED, right? 1 less AD, 16% less attack speed, takes 2 extra attacks longer to stack, no more AoE damage, no more AD or AP scaling on the on-hit, less base damage on the on-hit, and on top of all that, it's also 800 gold more expensive. Devourer's replacement Bloodrazor is also inferior to Devourer, in that Devourer gave you 60 on-hit magic damage for 2450 gold, while Bloodrazor works out to around 40 on-hit physical damage for 2625 gold. Most champions have far less MR than Armor, so that 40 physical damage is also further reduced compared to the 60 magic damage.

JavelinJoe1 votes

But the passive is what I was talking about, not rageblade's stats. I am not concerned with those, I only was speaking about the concept of a double proc of on-hit effects.

xxxDogmanxxx1 votes

It's not "easier to acquire" nor "boosted in power" as you said in your post. It's the exact opposite, actually. It's much harder to acquire now (3600 gold as opposed to 2450 to get the double proc passive, which you also can't have access to until after 7 auto-attacks now instead of immediately when in the mid game) and I've already shown that the combo Devourer-Rageblade got nerfed really hard stat-wise. What exactly is your problem here? Help me understand, because the numbers tell a different story.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Easier to acquire because it doesn't require 30 stacks to get it, you can just buy it. Also it is more open to anyone now since you do not need to take smite to get the item.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Read the changes to Rageblade again, because you didn't understand them.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Double proc of on-hits every other attack. Pretty sure I get it.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

The problem with the sated Rageblade combo was the AoE, not the phantom hit. That AoE is being removed from the item

JavelinJoe1 votes

but the problem was that it was a double hit when comboed with sated every hit. yes they toned it down a bit but this isn't about rageblade as an item, it is about phantom-hit and how possible (or impossible) it is to balanced it.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Last season, aside from the brief ranged problem, the item was completely fine. It didn't become a game-wide problem (as in outside of the lowest teirs) until this preseason.

Woook3r1 votes

but thats not because it became more effective this preseason, now is it?

its because it was always a problem and the meta shifted to reveal that it was a problem. OR people gradually became aware that it was viable and even optimal on some champions and it CAUSED a shift.

The burst dmg it provides via a single item slot on some tanks is just absurd. The problem is that the phantom hit is available from the second strike and every other strike thereafter. That was always broken. Its going to be broken again when the new rageblade comes out because kog has no problem building it.

The "ranged problem" is back again and you will be seeing sated tank kog maw. He doesnt need any more dmg than this one item provides. You think i have shit ideas, but you cant even anticipate that kog will be permaban in a few weeks whenever this comes to live? Like the op said, its not about rage blade, or kog, or yi, or shyvanna, or fizz, or teemo. Its about phantom hit. Its not healthy.

Sneakyy XD1 votes

{quoted}

synergizes with too many unique and different champions and is compleatly worthless on others

That's good. Items and champions should be complex enough that different champions build different items. You don't balance an item around every champion. You balance an item around champions who would use it, and relative to other items they would use.

GenghisEmo1 votes

You are right.

Ppl too busy not reading.

The passive needs to be removed. Like DFG, too hard to balance around it, so best to get rid of it.

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