I really don't understand how Zac doesn't have a 55%+ win rate.

option paralysis·Feb 15, 2018·21 votes·2,677 views

Champ has 3 types of cc. Same sht as sejuani. Unkillable tank with a slow, 2 knockup, displacement and fuckin' 2k range jump. OK lol Every game he's in, he's a fuckin' pain to deal with. Even if I countergank, he has cc up the ass and I can't move, as my team. Like what am I supposed to do ? Camp every lane in hope he will jump somewhere from the fog of war ? I'm really done man. Just got demoted to diamond 2 with unwinnable games and I literally don't know what am I doing wrong ? Is my mistake playing udyr ? like what the hell.

44 Comments

Stand Alone WolfFeb 15, 201811 votes

It's because he requires team-work. He's a team-work based champ, and if the team doesn't work together (In a team-made game) he super falls apart. Tanking, engaging for the team, and no one follows up, leaving you to die. Going in to save someone from dying, and end up getting left to take his place. Just dumb things that make the match ridiculously hard for Zac. Illaoi used to be that way, but worse. You could do great with the hentai queen, but if your team's falling apart, and you're the only one doing something, it feels like a 3v5 (Illaoi vs the enemies.)

A Dizzy LuluFeb 15, 20185 votes

champ needs nerfs really badly.

dom bitched about it and he was 100% correct.

Chembaron YamadaFeb 15, 20185 votes

He is actually performing weakly. 48% winrate, 55% for mains. That is low, no matter how you look at it.

Pandemic PunchFeb 15, 20183 votes

His early clear is TERRIBLE

option paralysisFeb 15, 201825 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUKxVZAm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-15T09:07:35.478+0000)

His early clear is TERRIBLE

yeah, it's so terrible he always ganks lvl 3 with both buffs mid or top at 3 mins. no different than other junglers.

AhristocatsFeb 15, 20186 votes

except he takes 2 more min than them to get lvl 3

H00KIEFeb 15, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUKxVZAm,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T10:58:18.274+0000)

except he takes 2 more min than them to get lvl 3

No he doesn't? He can get level 3 by 2:30.

Z3SleeperFeb 15, 20187 votes

W8 since when? His clear to level 3 is just as fast as anyone else.

H00KIEFeb 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=d5 is my legacy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUKxVZAm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T09:11:28.218+0000)

yeah, it's so terrible he always ganks lvl 3 with both buffs mid or top at 3 mins. no different than other junglers.

So true lol. Zac can clear raptors then kite red by Q'ing onto the big krug, then smite the big krug and clear that; can get level 3 pretty quick.

RexxieeFeb 15, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=d5 is my legacy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUKxVZAm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T09:11:28.218+0000)

yeah, it's so terrible he always ganks lvl 3 with both buffs mid or top at 3 mins. no different than other junglers.

The jungle is a joke in terms of difficulty.

I can play jungle jayce and be top at 2:45 with double buffs and lvl 3 with full health, then im able to full combo 100-0 the poor enemy lvl 2 top laner.

They need to make it much harder so this shit stops, camps should actually do damage early game.

EmpressOfBeautyFeb 15, 20182 votes

Not everyone is as good as you, and some champions who are squish squishes like Nidalee get ravaged by camps early on and it sets them behind for farming and having to recall and heal.

Z3SleeperFeb 16, 20183 votes

I don't think fighting AI monsters takes skill...

Pandemic PunchFeb 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=d5 is my legacy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUKxVZAm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T09:11:28.218+0000)

yeah, it's so terrible he always ganks lvl 3 with both buffs mid or top at 3 mins. no different than other junglers.

Watch what happens to him in every pro match. He struggles to clear his own jungle because every other jungler in the game, can just walk in and take his camps with no risk. That isn't exclusive to the pro scene. It also takes him significantly longer to clear camps in the early game on top of it. Him being "healthy" is not the only factor of what makes an early clear, "good".

It isn't good if it takes him 5 minutes to get a full clear. His clear isn't that fast until he completes his jungle item. That takes a loooong time. If you are vs any jungler with a good clear speed while playing as Zac, you will see what I mean after a few games. Just pray that your team doesn't die to ganks and pray that you don't get invaded early. Zac struggles to counter gank as well since he can't really duel anyone. So if the enemy gets a few ganks off, you can't respond to it. It forces you to the opposite side of the map OR to farm more with your slow clear before you can respond properly. By then, the enemy jungler will have already cleared several more camps and will be ready to gank again. Then you are still useless because your 2v2 is so weak.

BestPudgeNAFeb 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=d5 is my legacy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUKxVZAm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T09:11:28.218+0000)

yeah, it's so terrible he always ganks lvl 3 with both buffs mid or top at 3 mins. no different than other junglers.

Zac gets super low in his first clear, with the double buff clear u suggested he legit can't even clear both buffs and wolves with above 400 hp. If he starts blue he will get below 100hp on red for most clears. His Level 3 E range is super short, as is the damage he does compared to something like XinZhao Evelynn so his early ganks are pretty weak imo.

Itemization is also rough for Zac imo. He was HP/CDR and MR/armor. That said there really isn't a good first/second items for Armor with CDR.

He also is a team fight champ and solo Q is a clown fiesta most of the time. I gave up playing him for that reason.

DurzakaFeb 15, 20183 votes

Long story short, he requires a team in order to win.

You can be the best fucking Zac player in the world. But if your team doesnt capitalize on the disruption that you cause, youre still going to lose. He isnt like Maokai who can dive, disrupt, AND kill the ADC or Midlaner, and then have his team follow up.

Also, Udyr should be dumpstering on Zac. Show up at his second buff and there is literally nothing Zac can ever do to stop you. Keep repeating that the entire game, because Zac cant fight worth shit by himself in the jungle.

Timethief49Feb 15, 20182 votes

Hes highly reliant on Levels and items. Heiß lv1 e Range is terrible which is why I personally do füll clear for lv4 and 2 Levels in e. He gets really Low on his First clear and can easily be killed.

KoKobotoFeb 15, 20182 votes

Just dodge the E? He's good but not THAT good man

H00KIEFeb 15, 20182 votes

I honestly don't know how you're Diamond if you think Zac is OP.

RookPusherFeb 15, 20182 votes

He's not at a 55% win rate because his skins are terrible and no one wants to play him

PoskeFeb 15, 20182 votes

He has weak clear spead

and unlike rammus he isnt hard counter to specifics

Rammus for example is trash tier but atleast he is consistent great pick vs full ad teams

Pandemic PunchFeb 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He has weak clear spead

and unlike rammus he isnt hard counter to specifics

Rammus for example is trash tier but atleast he is consistent great pick vs full ad teams

Careful. I just got down voted into oblivion for saying the same thing. ;-)

RendrexFeb 15, 20182 votes

Honestly, i have no idea what even was the point of his rework. He was reduced to a shitty CC bot that can't even duel a teemo, i really miss the good days when Zac had my back toplane. [sg-soraka]

Hairy3000Feb 16, 20181 votes

I miss ma boi Zac he used to be my second guy that I would pick after Rengar but then Rengar got reworked and Zac became the only champ I would play then lethality items got changed peaking my interest back into Rengar and Zac got reworked. Now I practically only play Rengar anymore and I haven't enjoyed Zac in months. He went from being so fun to being so boring and annoying to play as :(

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Feb 16, 20182 votes

Because every tank in the game is busted and riot is enver gonna nerf them

BlåbæretFeb 15, 20181 votes

The champion is busted beyond belief. The only reason he doesn't have a ridculous win rate is because he somewhat team reliant, but the champion in itself is broken without question, and that should be enough to warrant nerfs imho.

Iffy JarlFeb 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The champion is busted beyond belief. The only reason he doesn't have a ridculous win rate is because he somewhat team reliant, but the champion in itself is broken without question, and that should be enough to warrant nerfs imho.

what makes him broken?

SanKakUFeb 15, 20181 votes

His scaling is awful. Most real tanks have tank scalings. Ornn, Malphite, Rammus, Braum. Of course, sometimes it's just a little scaling here or there, but at least they have it. Zac just has AP as if he's a mage.

Humble AatroxFeb 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

His scaling is awful. Most real tanks have tank scalings. Ornn, Malphite, Rammus, Braum. Of course, sometimes it's just a little scaling here or there, but at least they have it. Zac just has AP as if he's a mage.

his Q Scales off his maximum health

DurzakaFeb 15, 20184 votes

Yes, and it also has 70 base damage at rank 5.

Meanwhile Maokai's Q has half the cooldown, roughly, and has base damage of 225 (plus AP scaling, if Maokai decides he wants something like a roa in his game).

Zac's Q can hit twice. So, assuming he gets off both instances of damage, he needs roughly 2000 HP in order to break even with Maokai's Q. Meanwhile Maokai uses his Q twice while Zac uses his once. Which will skew the damage even more heavily for Maokai.

Zac pays for his CC with his damage. A LOT of damage.

His fucking W has a base damage of 15. And is magic damage. So the max hp damage that it deals is reduced to a pittance against anyone with a drop of MR.

His E has decent damage. But it is also on a 12 second cooldown at max rank.

And lets not even talk about the pathetic damage on his ult.

PurgëFeb 15, 20181 votes

lel pepole throwing some random shit , the reaason why his winrate is low is because not many pepole play him ,that's all

DurzakaFeb 15, 20181 votes

He is the 6th most popular jungler in plat+ in korea.

So yeah, plenty of people are playing him.

AyzevFeb 15, 20181 votes

That's not how it works. If a champion has a small playerbase, it means most of said playerbase are mains/one-tricks, which would raise the champion's win rate. If a champion is being played mostly by people maining them and the win rate still remains low, that means the champion is underpowered.

LUXANNA HOSHIDOFeb 15, 20181 votes

he does 0 damage, extremely reliant on your team following up imo

Sex With AnnieFeb 15, 20181 votes

Yeah feels great dodging his engage And then he just Q's a minion and right clicks me for a displacement AND a slow.

Jerry SeinfeIdFeb 15, 20181 votes

Is my mistake playing udyr ?

honestly?

CowseedFeb 15, 20181 votes

Is my mistake playing udyr ?

/thread

The DeckownerFeb 15, 20181 votes

Udyr is a very strong early gamechampion, you should be able to abuse Zac's garbage early game with constant invades. He gets low in his first clear and he can't 1v1 at all.

SchenixFeb 15, 20181 votes

He doesn't have a 10-20% max hp passive like Sej to finish off champions or layer on targeted cc that way attached. Zacs overall damage is pretty bad. I think Zac is a great example of what a tank should be, less damage but great CC and initiation so the team based game lets you play if your team or even just you, are actually better or realize the weaknesses and strengths of a champion. Regrettably, most other champions deal much more damage than him even if they build none of it.

So you as the player against him, can do things if his team isn't on the same page; or he got overconfident; but with Sej if you were low compared to Zac, Sej kills you or deters you from fighting or believing you can turn. Also Sej's ultimate is lower risk high reward to Zac requiring to get in the middle himself. You can throw Sej's ult from range even if they Flash you, but Flashing a Zac initiation is more useful.

Sire HippingtonFeb 15, 20181 votes

And i really don't understand how Azir, Zoe and GP are not 60%+, but well...

Troll for TrumpFeb 16, 20181 votes

The only real strong tanks right now are those that function as the ADC's peelslave. Zac does a poor job of it.

Meep ManFeb 16, 20181 votes

His E is interrupted by CC (even during the dash) and is a pretty slow dash, even if it is VERY long range. His Q is also kind of clunky against certain people like Teemo and Jax. There are just better options and he suffers because of it.

BârdFeb 17, 20181 votes

Zac is all set up. He needs his team to back him up.

Champions who rely heavily on teamwork generally suffer in solo queue.