Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to give up a game easily. But sometimes when you AND your team know that there is absolutely no coming back, we want to move on to the next game. Nobody wants to waste time with pointless fighting or risk getting banned for AFK.
It is a team decision, not one person ranting and whining about wanting to end it quick.
Master Van Tachi32 votesShould be able to surrender anytime you want with only 3 votes. If 3 people are not having fun, they should have the right to leave without being held hostage.
NeX Daark12 votes[{quoted}](name=Master Van Tachi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IR600Vrq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-28T03:52:10.405+0000)
Should be able to surrender anytime you want with only 3 votes. If 3 people are not having fun, they should have the right to leave without being held hostage.
100% this, an 0/10 bot duo or one random idiot should not be able to waste everyone else's time.
CppL8 votes[{quoted}](name=Master Van Tachi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IR600Vrq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-28T03:52:10.405+0000)
Should be able to surrender anytime you want with only 3 votes. If 3 people are not having fun, they should have the right to leave without being held hostage.
Hell no.It better be like from 0-10 min you need 5/5 votes.10-15min 4/5 votes.20min+ 3/5.That would be nice.
SirWittOfGreen1 votesSir I agree with you.
OP Garen Support1 votesBoards is full of never give up assholes who feed all game then refuse to surrender. I'm suprised you are not downvoted to hell.
Kiskil Lyra28 votesgame is turning into mobile legends lol
Masala Chai3 votesat this point, moonton could probably sue Riot Games for copying them xd
BALDG1VEN BOOMER19 votesDon’t think most people are down to wait a adequate queue to play a minute ten game, Riot clearly isn’t going to change their snowball philosophy and is playing a double edged sword trying to balance live and competitive.
What they need to do is make the early surrender passable with 4/1 vote split, so that one guy who fed doesn’t hold the game hostage.
Trias0002 votes[{quoted}](name=Thę Weeknd XO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IR600Vrq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-28T03:49:34.801+0000)
Don’t think most people are down to wait a adequate queue to play a minute ten game
Well, the queue times would also drop if games lasted only 10 minutes. Unless people get fed up with constant bullshit snowballs and just quit the game altogether.
Lakega4 votes[{quoted}](name=Thę Weeknd XO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IR600Vrq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-28T03:49:34.801+0000)
Don’t think most people are down to wait a adequate queue to play a minute ten game, Riot clearly isn’t going to change their snowball philosophy and is playing a double edged sword trying to balance live and competitive.
What they need to do is make the early surrender passable with 4/1 vote split, so that one guy who fed doesn’t hold the game hostage.
I don't get this whole mentality that you have to balance around both competetive and non competetive.. You don't see other games doing this.. I don't think Dota does either, though I barely play that game and don't pay attention to the updates.
If Riot just balances the game to be less abusive at mid range elo, more balanced over all due to it, and stop favoring champs and meta's. The pro's will adapt, and the pro play will be far more interesting to watch because of the inexhaustible possibilities for team comps.
WomboWoeWombo4 votesYes yes yes! This is what I'm screaming! This is the aspect of LOL that I feel is hurting it the most. They should balance it as suggested here and leave the realm of possibility open. I for one would love to see competitive team comps that allow the pros to be more creative in their picks/bans. I feel like this would lead to more variety in competitive game play and allow for a more enjoyable competition experience for those playing as well as the spectators.
Zero Shingetsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Thę Weeknd XO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IR600Vrq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-28T03:49:34.801+0000)
Don’t think most people are down to wait a adequate queue to play a minute ten game, Riot clearly isn’t going to change their snowball philosophy and is playing a double edged sword trying to balance live and competitive.
What they need to do is make the early surrender passable with 4/1 vote split, so that one guy who fed doesn’t hold the game hostage.
... Wait, for ten minutes? I can't think of anything meaningful I could do with ten minutes, apart from heat a frozen dinner. Why not just spend that time brushing up on your mechanics or trying wild new strategies, if you know the game's doomed to a surrender at 20?
Risen297 votesAt average elo, people are both too stupid to make the right decision about when to continue OR when to quit.
That's why you can't allow 3/5 surrender vote. Too many games have been won and turned around when 3/5 were trying to give up early.
On the other hand, you also have stupid people that can't discern that being 2/20 by the 10 minute mark constitutes a game not worth continuing under any circumstances.
Their lack of game knowledge prevents them from knowing when to quit but also prevents them from knowing when to continue. I don't think there's much that can be done about that either way. You can't empower the situation one way or another without causing a problem. if you force 5/5 surrender votes, stupid people will never let it end. If you force 3/5 surrender votes, stupid people will give up 50% of the games they could have won without even realizing it, and never learn how to even play mid/late game properly because everyone is surrendering as soon as the first tower is lost.
saltran4 votesNo, please god don't make ff at 10 a thing, majority of the playerbase is below Plat and in those elos literally every game can be thrown because the enemy team is as bad as yours. But adding ff at 10 will just make ppl even more tilted and spamming it since 10 min and a lot of them going afk if your team doesn't surrender.
Inari Fox Orrion2 votesDon't they already do that?
FlameadoDeKoorvo9 votesFrom my experience: when a player or a couple of players are tired from a match they just inting and "open mid/bot/top" making the mathc "unwwineable", so at least this add of "ff 10min" could save my time.
Tactical Barrels3 votesNonsense, there's always a dickhead that refuses it.
RainXBlade3 votesWhy not FF at 5 since Riot really wants those snowbally, stompy games?
Supreme Senpai692 votesSadly there's not really a point. Even at 15 minutes, the dude who went 0/11/0 always votes no. It's hard enough to ff at 20. People really really hate surrendering in normals for some reason. In ranked, this shouldn't really be a thing either, cuz you shouldn't be giving up that quickly even if it's hopeless. For example, if you're playing as a good team comp with a weak laning phase, and everyone is losing even though mid game hasn't come yet. They start the vote and if you vote no, they're gonna troll and get pissed off or AFK. But you could've won!
The vote should stay at 15. That's when the mid game usually happens and people start grouping. You can usually tell, if you're losing teamfights, that you can't win. But even if every lane is 0/3/0, there isn't a way to tell if you can win until you group. What if they have a Teemo? Or are all 5 AD? And you have a Malphite and Yasuo? With a Kalista bonded to the Malphite? And an Orianna? And a Sona? Like, you're gonna win even if a little behind tbh
NocturnalKernal3 votesyou are highly overestimating the average elo and totally ruling out people who are trolling from the start of the game. also what if one team has smurf(s)? if the non-smurf team is behind because the enemy later is simply a better player, then no amount of champion synergy is going to outweigh the lack of game knowledge. just because a comp is good does not mean the individuals will suddenly become "good" when it team fights. and of course the troll that fed not because hes "bad" or "countered" but actually because he is TROLLING and feeding on purpose just hold the other 4 in limbo. i.e. team - "we can't win man and we all give up plz just forfeit" troll player - "come on just one more team fight I will do better I promise!" team - "Fine whatever ok lets go" troll player goes out and immediately dies then types "lol" in all chat.
ff @ 10 need 5/5 since all agree no issues, but can only be 1 voting attempt until 15 ff @ 15 need 4/5 .. free the hostages please!, also only be 1 voting attempt until 20 ff @ 20 same but now you can spam it..!(kinda) hehe .. maybe 2 min between vote attempts.
note on 4/5 votes. if one person says no because he truly believes the game can be won but fails to exhibit any real evidence of his/her claim then this person truly is trolling. ie "Trust me man I will hard carry", 2 minutes, 4 teammate deaths and 3 downed turrets later, "broooo imma gonna carry dis shit cmon bros trust meh". the next 5 - 10 minutes will be a living hell if you are forced to stay in it riot should give a chance to avoid this without penalty.
A LOT of the reason the game is not as fun as it used to be is because people are being forced into bad situations with no way out but to suffer. When I first started playing this I can guarantee that I was extremely less skilled and knowledgeable about it than compared to now. However it fells like the chance I have to make a "comeback", REGARDLESS OF ELO, is like 10x harder than what it used to be 2-3 years ago. With greater "snowballiness" must come less punishment while not being the one who is snowballing. if someone has been making mistakes for the past 10-15 min straight do you really believe they will suddenly snap out of it become rank one challenger and carry like no one has carried before? I would consider that a miracle and it wouldn't really matter to that person if they got a loss because they will simply get like 10 wins in a row afterwards providing they don't revert to monkey mode. people do not simply transform mid game... it takes many, many games and part of learning the game is learning when to move on to the next. if 1 person is really going to carry 4 people after the 15 min mark then they should have already been carrying them from the 2 min mark and giving them hope to 'carry on'. pun intended. @riot hope you take some of this feedback into consideration.
Supreme Senpai692 votesyou are highly overestimating the average elo and totally ruling out people who are trolling from the start of the game. also what if one team has smurf(s)? if the non-smurf team is behind because the enemy later is simply a better player, then no amount of champion synergy is going to outweigh the lack of game knowledge. just because a comp is good does not mean the individuals will suddenly become "good" when it team fights. and of course the troll that fed not because hes "bad" or "countered" but actually because he is TROLLING and feeding on purpose just hold the other 4 in limbo. i.e. team - "we can't win man and we all give up plz just forfeit" troll player - "come on just one more team fight I will do better I promise!" team - "Fine whatever ok lets go" troll player goes out and immediately dies then types "lol" in all chat.
ff @ 10 need 5/5 since all agree no issues, but can only be 1 voting attempt until 15 ff @ 15 need 4/5 .. free the hostages please!, also only be 1 voting attempt until 20 ff @ 20 same but now you can spam it..!(kinda) hehe .. maybe 2 min between vote attempts.
note on 4/5 votes. if one person says no because he truly believes the game can be won but fails to exhibit any real evidence of his/her claim then this person truly is trolling. ie "Trust me man I will hard carry", 2 minutes, 4 teammate deaths and 3 downed turrets later, "broooo imma gonna carry dis shit cmon bros trust meh". the next 5 - 10 minutes will be a living hell if you are forced to stay in it riot should give a chance to avoid this without penalty.
A LOT of the reason the game is not as fun as it used to be is because people are being forced into bad situations with no way out but to suffer. When I first started playing this I can guarantee that I was extremely less skilled and knowledgeable about it than compared to now. However it fells like the chance I have to make a "comeback", REGARDLESS OF ELO, is like 10x harder than what it used to be 2-3 years ago. With greater "snowballiness" must come less punishment while not being the one who is snowballing. if someone has been making mistakes for the past 10-15 min straight do you really believe they will suddenly snap out of it become rank one challenger and carry like no one has carried before? I would consider that a miracle and it wouldn't really matter to that person if they got a loss because they will simply get like 10 wins in a row afterwards providing they don't revert to monkey mode. people do not simply transform mid game... it takes many, many games and part of learning the game is learning when to move on to the next. if 1 person is really going to carry 4 people after the 15 min mark then they should have already been carrying them from the 2 min mark and giving them hope to 'carry on'. pun intended. @riot hope you take some of this feedback into consideration.
Trolls are an unfortunately inevitability. I wouldn't make changes such as these based on them though, honestly. There's always gonna be trolls. Trolls make me want to ff at 3 minutes when they steal my red and my raptors, or when they give first blood, TP back in, and die right after. Trolls don't usually let you surrender anyway so you're stuck until 20. It really sucks, but changing it to ten minutes wouldn't change that. I completely agree with how frustrating a losing game can be and I absolutely LOATHE when a premade bot lane feeds and holds you hostage. Especially in normals. It's like bruh. I wanna play for fun. This aint fun. Let's move on.
Strictly speaking, I am talking about the ten minute mark not being a good place to surrender. 15 minutes? Totally for that. And yeah, honestly should need 4/5 and not 5/5. But ten minutes, for reasons already stated in my post, I do not believe would be a good time for allowing surrender.
Risen292 votes[{quoted}](name=Supreme Senpai69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IR600Vrq,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-03-28T09:22:47.190+0000)
Sadly there's not really a point. Even at 15 minutes, the dude who went 0/11/0 always votes no. It's hard enough to ff at 20. People really really hate surrendering in normals for some reason. In ranked, this shouldn't really be a thing either, cuz you shouldn't be giving up that quickly even if it's hopeless. For example, if you're playing as a good team comp with a weak laning phase, and everyone is losing even though mid game hasn't come yet. They start the vote and if you vote no, they're gonna troll and get pissed off or AFK. But you could've won!
The vote should stay at 15. That's when the mid game usually happens and people start grouping. You can usually tell, if you're losing teamfights, that you can't win. But even if every lane is 0/3/0, there isn't a way to tell if you can win until you group. What if they have a Teemo? Or are all 5 AD? And you have a Malphite and Yasuo? With a Kalista bonded to the Malphite? And an Orianna? And a Sona? Like, you're gonna win even if a little behind tbh
Although in theory it sounds good to never give up in ranked - You have to understand that even the pros in Dota 2, during "the international" with millions on the line, would surrender games early even though to the casual observer it didn't look that hopeless.
The reason? It keeps your mind fresher and prevents you from tilting. Plus, as pros, facing pros who don't make mistakes, they had the experience to be a good judge of when it was better to throw in the towel than continue to get pummeled for no reason.
Getting beat up for an hour in a pointless prolonged agony of struggle that you knew was really over from the 15 minute mark is very bad for team morale, is tiring, and reduces the chance that you will do well in the next game against the same opponents. It's not worth doing that to yourself for the 1% chance you'll be able to turn it around and capitalize on a major mistake - especially when this was only the first match in a 3 out of 5 competition.
I've noticed the same thing in ranked play. I'm really far better off if I just wash my hands of a complete crap fest of a game at 15 minutes and start over fresh, rather than tease it out for 30 minutes into a frustrating prolonged stalling of the inevitable. The later leaves you more tilted and more mentally tired for the next round, more likely to lose.
Supreme Senpai691 votesAlthough in theory it sounds good to never give up in ranked - You have to understand that even the pros in Dota 2, during "the international" with millions on the line, would surrender games early even though to the casual observer it didn't look that hopeless.
The reason? It keeps your mind fresher and prevents you from tilting. Plus, as pros, facing pros who don't make mistakes, they knew were a good judge of when it was better to throw in the towel than continue to get pummeled for no reason.
Getting beat up for an hour in a pointless prolonged agony of struggle that you knew was really over from the 15 minute mark is very bad for team morale, is tiring, and reduces the chance that you will do well in the next game against the same opponents.
I've noticed the same thing in ranked play. I'm really far better off if I just wash my hands of a complete crap fest of a game at 15 minutes and start over fresh, rather than tease it out for 30 minutes into a frustrating prolonged stalling of the inevitable. The later leaves you more tilted and more mentally tired for the next round, more likely to lose.
You're totally right. I feel like the 15 minute mark is a good place for the surrender vote. There is little point in playing out a game you know you're gonna lose. I just do not believe moving that up to a 10 minute threshold like OP suggests is a good idea, because at ten minutes no team fighting has occurred and you cannot possibly know who will win. At 15 minutes, you tend to have a better idea.
Nea1041 votesAt least in Aram, since you can't fix that mode AT ALL. :)
Pika Fox1 votesIf youre going to FF@10, you really shouldnt be playing ranked seriously. The only time you should FF is when the enemy is in your base, and everyone is dead and wont be up to stop them. 10 mins isnt enough time to judge who will win, it just means you lack the skill to actually turn the tables.
big boi edri1 votesYeah idk about 10 minutes, but I’d much rather the surrender vote be 4/5 at 15 and 3/5 at 20.
I just don’t agree with 10 because the majority of us are low elo. The game is almost never over at 10 minutes, there are too many players down here who know how to do well in lane then leave lane and do nothing for their team.
That and I’d rather not hav the surrender window pop up every chance from 10 because that douche bag won’t stop flaming and saying the game is over every time anyone makes any mistake.
Ztoka1 votesI think that would be great. I would be against requiring a 5 out of 5 vote because some people don't even pay attention to the surrender box. FF at 10 requires a 4 out of 5 vote.. FF at 20 3 of 5 vote..
Circuitry1 votesYeah... I vote for a 10 min. 3/5 surrender vote. I mean, not sure about ya'll but where I live majority rules. Obviously, some games that are surrendered early could have been won but tbh.. who gives a shit? Why would anyone act like its a big deal to loose a game when there was some slight possibility that it could have been won? Its a game, bout time it gets treated like one.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesDoesn't matter much when we can never get all five people to agree to a surrender anyway.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesWould be useless... plat monkeys dont even ff at 15 when the game is obviously lost since age.
