Boards›Gameplay

I think now that Sterak's Gage is in the game it's time to look at certain champ's AD ratios

FalconPawwwwnch··63 votes·14,568 views

Typically Base AD doesn't affect skills because for the longest time you couldn't get Base AD from items, only Bonus AD.

Now that you can access Base AD from items, it skews its usefullness really hard towards champions that have total AD ratios. There's a lot of champions who would love to build Sterak's Gage but since its AD doesn't benefit abilities they're less inclined to

Darius's Q and W scale with total AD, so he still gets ability damage for building Sterak's, Olaf has a total AD ratio on E, Mordekaiser has total AD ratios on his abilities, etc

I think you should tweak certain skills to scale with total AD instead of bonus AD but reduce the base damage for obvious reasons:

Examples of what I mean: Changing Jax Leap Strike damage from 70/110/150/190/230 + 1.0 bonus AD to 20/45/70/95/120 + 1.0 Total AD

Changing Aatrox Q damage from 70/115/160/205/250 + .6 Bonus AD to 30/70/110/150/190 + .6 Total AD

Base damage ends up being roughly the same but now it makes it so Sterak's AD benefits the skill.

I don't think EVERY champ should have their ratios changed, but bruisers who rely on building tanky/damage probably should

69 Comments

RiotMeddler30 votes

Base AD being significantly more appealing on some types of champion than others is something we're trying out as a lever for better item design. Something we've struggled with in the past is creating items to help out some classes or positions because of the way other classes/positions would take better advantage of them (a pain some junglers for example probably recall well, given some past uses of jungle items by laners before the need to at least take Smite to do so). In this particular case base AD/total AD ratios are things we're looking to focus on juggernauts much more than mobile melee.

FalconPawwwwnch9 votes

But there already are mobile melee with total ad ratios: Irelia and Riven

Total ad works similarly to bonus ad on abilities, I figured that giving total ad ratios to Champs that are currently underperforming like Jax and Aatrox would modernize them now that sterak's exists

RiotMeddler20 votes

If items like Sterak's become problems on characters like Irelia and Riven we'll look at whether we can shift them to bonus scaling instead of total, rather than necessarily having to nerf the items in question. Bonus versus total AD is a tool we're looking to use as a way to distinguish different classes somewhat, rather than an old way versus new way thing.

Phoenix Kotori 7 votes

He's kinda of wrong meddler Irelia & Riven only has a total ratios on their Qs everything else depends on bonus, so neither of them really build the item ever.

Meanwhile changing Jax's would be a huge shift his power curve since total AD means it scales even on the levels where you aren't ranking and greatly reduces the reward for ranking the skill this could have large impact on his balance and power level since this tends to be maxed second.

While Aatrox Q depends to maxed last so rank 1 would probably need to be bit weaker than that to keep him balanced, otherwise the spell ends up more powerful 5-13 range without any AD items even.

Sire Hippington4 votes

Rivens passive also is total ad, and her Q+passive-AAs is ~90% of her damage... Irelia only has her ult not scaleing with it, but draws alot power from trinity which scales of base-ad, so both champs actually profit alot from base ad.

The point most people miss is that steraks really doesn't offer alot offense no matter who you built it on, it's ~25-30 ad, so not really more than a pick axe. The main point is the 30%hp shield, which obviously scales witha ditional tanks stats, which makes it more apealing on champs that usually go more tanky + you need to recive 1800damage in 5 sec, which is usually exactly what you try to avoid with the likes of riven and irelia. If you dive in head first, steraks alone won't save you, if you don't, you probably won't proc the shield and with that aditional damage...

Champion Skin1 votes

Actually for Irelia it would probably add around 75-90 (25-30 + 50-60 from the sheen effect of Trinity force.. since I don't really see her not building Trinity force)

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Yeah, it's pretty good for more damage on Irelia. But for the most part you're already a hyper damage source and just wanna build full tank from there. With all the % health damage flying about, going for health/armor or health/mr is typically better than sterak's health/ad.

But it's still a great buy against burst champs to negate a ton of damage (30% of your health?!) and great against teams with little to no % health damage.

Sexy Lilly1 votes

Wouldn't it just be more logical for the item to give bonus ad instead of base AD? It saves a whole lot of hastle

Downfall12 votes

with Base AD it scales very well with items with the spellblade passive, introducing more item build diversity. It's not supposed to be simple :P

toxıc sIut4 votes

In addition to this, it also makes it bad on bruisers with high bonus AD scaling, like Jarvan or Lee sin who would LOVE to use this if they could put use to the AD it gives. And imo that's a good thing.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Huh, now that you mention it I really think J4 should have total AD scaling. He's been dwindling between Assassin and Bruiser for a long time. Never have I ever considered J4 a tank, because no matter how tanky you are you still have only your measly E armor and rather small shield as defensive tools--to which even most bruisers have better defensive abilities. Shifting him towards Total AD and nerfing early n buffing late base damages would allow him to have more freedom to build full tank.

And with Steraks + Trinity now a thing, he can benefit from it if he needs to build a damage item or 2 to act as a bruiser instead.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

I'm pretty sure They said that J4 is one of the reasons this item doesn't give bonus AD in the patch notes sterak's was introduced in.

Besides, from I've seen, he's really happy with some of the other new items like titanic hydra, so he isn't without new toys to play with

Frius1 votes

JARVAN HAS NO ARMOR ON E ,since nerf

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Oh shit... I thought it was just the aura that was gone. Wtf, why'd they nerf tank J4 and force him into assassin J4?

He's literally only a bruiser if you build him tank and even then he's still less of a bruiser than a bruiser and way less of a tank than any bruiser. You can't even compare him to tanks cuz he's so lackluster in tanking.

IMO it's a waste of a really cool ultimate: trapping someone in an arena with you. Something that would suit a tank but is instead on this squishy assassin wannabe bruiser.

Frius1 votes

all you saw with warrior was jarvan / lee now lee sin is better with recent buffs then was vi and reksai jarvan has no good shield or healing to survive jungle

Meeks0111 votes

omg rito pls nerf LeeSin i waz playing ad Anivia jg an he kiled me

Another thought, is the AD granted from Dragon Slayer counted towards bonus AD? Does it multiply with bonus AD increases like Warlord or Zed's W passive? If it favors champions with total AD ratios then that's something to take into account as well.

GastonBarnacles1 votes

Riven with Sterak's has a permanent shield.

jeffeypop1 votes

seems like this is heavily steering in the direction of some wildly obscure book keeping that i thought riot was trying to do away with.

sounds like a pain to understand for me, but for new players this will be incomprehensible.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

So why did you name this item Steak's Garage?

Declined1 votes

I've purposely NOT used Steraks because I can't figure out which champions benefit from this item AT ALL!!!!

Looking at it from an objective perspective, I would say that the ad ratio is pretty low so can you give us a list champion skills using base ad ratios and items.

Would it be possible to change the skill description of champions?

Or better yet, change the item description for Sterak to match the champion that you're curretly using, or if viewed on the scoreboard to match the champion currently using that item.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

Base AD being significantly more appealing on some types of champion than others is something we're trying out as a lever for better item design. Something we've struggled with in the past is creating items to help out some classes or positions because of the way other classes/positions would take better advantage of them (a pain some junglers for example probably recall well, given some past uses of jungle items by laners before the need to at least take Smite to do so). In this particular case base AD/total AD ratios are things we're looking to focus on juggernauts much more than mobile melee.

Irelias don't get her damage so much from anything besides triforce and her kit these days and much of that is from the procs which in turn are based on the champs base AD. And if you simply nerf Irelia's base AD to make Irelia Players less interested in Trifroce and Sterak's there will be little reason to play Irelia. Yes you tried making triforce suck and it worked wonders in making Irelia overall weak. #Season3NeverForget.

Also Irelia's only ability that benifites from the base AD boost of Sterak's is bladesurge. Her ult gets no damage boost from Sterak's making it hardly a win win situation in getting a Sterak's and more would be gotten from something like either hydra.

Back in season 2 however there was a second damage item that Irelia players tended to get a lot in Wit's end, some would even rush it a lot. This was back when it had a cost around 2150 for 42 on hit magic damage and 40% attack speed but did not steal enemy MR just gave the owner of the item more MR (20 MR maxing out at 45 MR after 5 auto attacks and today would be fine with 25 MR maxing out at 45 given the changes to MR since then).

It however is not cost efficient enough to justify getting wits these days in most cases since triforce is not as all around good as it was in season 2. Triforce is now more of an offensive item then an it was back then (150% base AD on hit then vs 200% Base AD on hit now now and also 300 health then VS 250 health now) meaning it is more ideal to get a defensive item instead.

Sterak's is not really an ideal time for Irelia overall and Triforce would need some kind of nerf to make Sterak's become somethign to realyl justify. But that would likely jsut kill off Irelia.

So while I am not fully against some changes to Irelia it would be nice if you at least made there be some good offensive options besides just trifroce if you are going to be nerfing her triforce power spike. And FYI BotRK is not an ideal weapon for Irelia in most cases. She will be taking hits and Wit's end allowed for better tanking some hits while also doing some damage that is also not auto countered by stacking armor. Her kit is that of an assassin that does not use stealth or blinks but is resistant to most forms of CC and being tanky enough to not get instantly killed.

I know you plane to rework Irelia at some point but until that actually happens don't make her trash just because marksmen and sona players complain about any assassin that is able to assassinate them.

Sincarnation3 votes

:( I literally made a thread about Sterak's yesterday, on this same board, and im fairly certain it was ignored entirely.

They should also give people a way to tell which abilities scale off of total AD in game

Rustling Bush2 votes

i agree but i don't understand what you are talking about, someone explain ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

FalconPawwwwnch11 votes

Base AD is what Sterak's Gage gives, not Bonus AD.

For example take a champ with 120 Base AD at level 18, Sterak's gives them 30 AD.

However, this is not the same type of AD that 3 long swords give, as that AD is bonus AD.

Typically, most champions with AD ratios on abilities have BONUS ad ratios, not base ad ratios, so they get no benefit on their abilities from building Sterak's.

However, champions like Darius/Morde/Olaf/Irelia DO have total AD ratios, meaning steraks buffs their abilities too.

The OP suggests to rework other bruisers' AD ratios to scale with total AD. the Base damage ends up being similar, but they gain benefits from steraks

Rustling Bush1 votes

does this apply to jax to? i often see pro builds with sterak in them so i'm assuming that jax's abilities scale sterak

FalconPawwwwnch5 votes

No, Jax doesn't have any total AD ratios

However, Jax builds trinity force, which scales off of base AD.

Jax has about 120 Base AD at level 18, so his triforce procs do 240 damage Sterak's increases base AD by 25% so to 150, so his new triforce prods do 300 damage

Cerbearus2 votes

Trinity force scales off Base AD, not total

Messaiga1 votes

Also worth noting, when the passive on Sterak's Gage activates it grants an additional +25% base AD. Assuming level 18 Jax, this makes Trinity Force procs deal a total of about 360 physical damage.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

Base AD is what Sterak's Gage gives, not Bonus AD.

For example take a champ with 120 Base AD at level 18, Sterak's gives them 30 AD.

However, this is not the same type of AD that 3 long swords give, as that AD is bonus AD.

Typically, most champions with AD ratios on abilities have BONUS ad ratios, not base ad ratios, so they get no benefit on their abilities from building Sterak's.

However, champions like Darius/Morde/Olaf/Irelia DO have total AD ratios, meaning steraks buffs their abilities too.

The OP suggests to rework other bruisers' AD ratios to scale with total AD. the Base damage ends up being similar, but they gain benefits from steraks

I like the idea however I doubt jax should build it regardless

FalconPawwwwnch6 votes

He builds triforce

Sterak's is perfect with triforce since it gives him like 60 more damage on the proc

Nothing wrong with him buying it

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

He builds triforce

Sterak's is perfect with triforce since it gives him like 60 more damage on the proc

Nothing wrong with him buying it

Oh you are right ...

But then again Trinity>Gunblade (Seriously 2x times better then botrk) > Warmog is my way to go i guess i can fit in sterak xd

Any hp items are generaly good for jax (Since he already has armor/ressist from R) I just though it would be outclassed by warmogs but how nooby of me I forgot about the trinity force synergy guess you can build both

Verxint3 votes

There's also the anti-burst passive effect - that shield synergizes well with the resistances from his ultimate.

Dessem1 votes

So does that mean Sterak's Gage is really good when you have Triforce, since it boosts your Triforce damage? (On Irelia, for example?)

EDIT: Oh I see the answer a few posts below. I never realised Sterak's worked that way, I thought it gave bonus AD equal to 25% of base AD.

RyzeRework1 votes

{quoted}

Base AD is what Sterak's Gage gives, not Bonus AD.

For example take a champ with 120 Base AD at level 18, Sterak's gives them 30 AD.

However, this is not the same type of AD that 3 long swords give, as that AD is bonus AD.

Typically, most champions with AD ratios on abilities have BONUS ad ratios, not base ad ratios, so they get no benefit on their abilities from building Sterak's.

However, champions like Darius/Morde/Olaf/Irelia DO have total AD ratios, meaning steraks buffs their abilities too.

The OP suggests to rework other bruisers' AD ratios to scale with total AD. the Base damage ends up being similar, but they gain benefits from steraks

Lol try it on blitz bet it'd be op :p

Melledoneus2 votes

This post has been removed due to the graphic nature of its stupidity.

Viewer discretion is advised.

FalconPawwwwnch5 votes

Do you read

Melledoneus5 votes

Crap.

Please downvote the original post. I just derped out and wrote something utterly stupid without context. I deserve the barrage of downvotes.

Hyrum Graff3 votes

{quoted}

Crap.

Please downvote the original post. I just derped out and wrote something utterly stupid without context. I deserve the barrage of downvotes.

Or just add on an edit to your original comment saying you were wrong and don't worry about it :P

TotalJerk2 votes

Sterak's is specifically meant to be built on champions that don't buy lots of AD. In addition, Sterak's was also specifcally designed so that it isn't build on champions that scale with bonus AD, make this good on Bonus AD bruisers, and you'll witness the return of the "Vi, Jarvan, or Lee Sin" jungle meta.

Ser Garland2 votes

They even said on the patch notes the reason why Steraks is Base and not total is because of JarvanIV

Frius1 votes

jarvan too ,has 120% bonus Q and 150% bonus R ,he can be good with new items ,but make his q like 150+150% total ad ,his flag deal dmg from ad and his ult idk basically ,sterak+ trinity op base dmg benefits total ad ratios ,while bonus ad (from runes/masteries/items) benefit bonus ad ratios

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

J4 is exactly the kind of champion they didn't make it for.

Xeynid1 votes

It's at times like these I start to think that maybe the talent system HotS has is just objectively better.

KatCraft1 votes

Except it's clearly not.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

I wouldn't say it's "clearly not" but it is definitely different and probably wouldn't work too well in this game

Narzghal1 votes

So you're suggesting a nerf on multiple champion's abilities? And they'll only get that equivalent power, or sometimes more, if they build a specific item? So if they don't want that item, or it doesn't fit in what they should build based on the match up, they bow are weaker than before. While in theory it sounds appealing, I don't think it's necessary to follow this suggestion just so that an item benefits more abilities. Just accept that it gives you a bit more base AD

KaisadiIIa2 votes

That wouldn't be a nerf, let's take Jax's Q as an example:

70/110/150/190/230 + 1.0 bonus AD to 20/45/70/95/120 + 1.0 Total AD

His base attack damage at level 1 is 62 (+3.375 growth), that means that, at level 1, his damage would be 82 +1.0 bonus AD (vs. 70 +1.0 bonus AD), that grows up to 98 +1.0 bonus AD at level 7 (considering that you'll rank it up at levels X, 8, 10, 12, 13. Then it's damage would be:

  • Level 8: 126 +1.0 bonus AD (vs. 110 +1.0 bonus AD)
  • Level 10: 158 +1.0 bonus AD (vs. 150 +1.0 bonus AD)
  • Level 12: 190 +1.0 bonus AD (vs. 190 +1.0 bonus AD)
  • Level 13: 219 +1.0 bonus AD (vs. 230 +1.0 bonus AD)
  • Level 18: 239 +1.0 bonus AD (vs. 230 +1.0 bonus AD)

They're not taking away damage so you need Sterak to compensate, they're just adjusting base/ratio damages to be roughly the same as now, but benefit from Sterak's.

Jason the other1 votes

So what ur saying is we show change about 50 champions because of 1 item

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

It's not worth it just because of Steraks. Most champions have 100 max AD, so item 3053 only grants 25 base AD. This is excluding juggernauts, who have really high base AD.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by FalconPawwwwnch

Instead of an ! icon for when an enemy Rengar ults just open up the shop automatically
Gameplay135 comments
315
votes
Can we change Veteran's Scars back to 3% max HP instead of the useless 45 HP
Gameplay142 comments
302
votes
The flat true damage on Vayne's W should be removed
Gameplay157 comments
275
votes
Graves is a better drain tank than Aatrox, Olaf, and Warwick
Gameplay128 comments
230
votes
If Nidalee and Elise got their melee bonus resists removed, Jayce doesn't need them either
Gameplay188 comments
215
votes
So over the last few years, Riot has been trying to give counterplay to all new champs and reworks
Gameplay179 comments
200
votes