Bruiser Yasuo has no weaknesses tbh - and I blame Fervor.

HateDaddy··141 votes·8,557 views

Yasuo already beats everything early game, which is the nature of his kit. There's not much you can do to weaken his early game minus making his HP pool or shield weaker because he has no resources and low cooldowns.

But champions that generally beat Yasuo don't beat bruiser Yasuo. You can pick it into counter match ups and still win because you're able to stave off attack speed slows with Q/trinity procs and literally just be hard as fuck to kill. This isn't healthy, I do agree with many on here that these bruiser off builds aren't good for the game and they shouldn't be working. Sure, if you get ahead and snowball, it's whatever. But a champion like Yasuo who is designed to function off of crit isn't even building crit and is electing to go with bruiser builds, you've made damage too accessible in other areas while you can still cash in on durability from high HP items like Frozen Mallet and Steraks.

Once again, I mostly blame keystones for this. Keystones are giving these offbuilds better scaling, which bruiser builds as off builds as a generalization fall off pretty hard. But because of shit like Fervor, TLD and even Grasp (which does decent damage too, especially with HP stacking), you're seeing all sorts of champions and champions with off-builds outputting amounts of damage they simply shouldn't be outputting.

You guys seriously need to look into adjusting keystones because they offer too much power. They have made this game a nightmare to balance on so many levels.

180 Comments

Ralanr24 votes

We may need to cut down the total power in the game and do a massive shift in where this power should be (Masteries, items, or base stats).

And by we, I mean Riot.

It all honestly feels like WoW before that stat squish of Warlords, way too many big numbers.

HateDaddy14 votes

{quoted}

We may need to cut down the total power in the game and do a massive shift in where this power should be (Masteries, items, or base stats).

And by we, I mean Riot.

It all honestly feels like WoW before that stat squish of Warlords, way too many big numbers.

I don't think fervor is a very interesting mastery either. Damage for doing damage, sick concept riot.

Ralanr5 votes

At least it isn't as abusable as TLD.

I still dislike how they didn't nerf it. "We want it to be the baseline of how powerful these masteries are"

If they keep nerfing other masteries we'll get league of thunderlords again.

HateDaddy11 votes

{quoted}

At least it isn't as abusable as TLD.

I still dislike how they didn't nerf it. "We want it to be the baseline of how powerful these masteries are"

If they keep nerfing other masteries we'll get league of thunderlords again.

honestly, it's still not uncommon to see 2-3 TLD keystones on one team.

Ralanr4 votes

Because it's so goddamn useful for anyone and doesn't have a downside.

A cooldown? Doesn't really matter because of how universally useful it is.

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

honestly, it's still not uncommon to see 2-3 TLD keystones on one team.

It sadly isn't. Even if there are better options. Seeing people take TLD on Fiddledicks makes me sicks.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

{quoted}

It sadly isn't. Even if there are better options. Seeing people take TLD on Fiddledicks makes me sicks.

I am yet to understand why most people take TLD on Thresh

As well as on champions like Renekton or Teemo

When all of those three would do better with Bond of Stone, Fervor of Battle, and Deathfire Touch respectively

Poske3 votes

TLD is ultra over rated

Take it from a high elo player to another

YumaS2Astral6 votes

{quoted}

honestly, it's still not uncommon to see 2-3 TLD keystones on one team.

I've just had a game where the only player to not take Thunderlord's Decree on the enemy team was the top laner. It was a Nunu using Deathfire Touch. Considering the fact that he was not building full AP, he would ironically do better by taking Thunderlord's Decree.

venomous frost16 votes

Why is it that fervor is only broken on bruiser yasuo? Maybe the reasoning is in his kit

like his really low cooldown Q that applies fervor And the knockup that comes with it for free every, like what, 5 seconds?

Why not make his Q only apply crit, and no other onhit effects

HateDaddy37 votes

[{quoted}](name=venomous frost,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IKYi2qd7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-18T18:42:20.177+0000)

Why is it that fervor is only broken on bruiser yasuo? Maybe the reasoning is in his kit

like his really low cooldown Q that applies fervor And the knockup that comes with it for free every, like what, 5 seconds?

Why not make his Q only apply crit, and no other onhit effects

Because Yasuo isn't the only abusing this.

NightmareAmazoX4 votes

{quoted}

Because Yasuo isn't the only abusing this.

His Q is an empowered basic attack, A simple, Empowered Basic attack. Geez. Thing is Fervor stacks twice as fast for Melee Champs. Each basic attack gives you 2 stacks. While ranged champions get one stack per hit

HateDaddy21 votes

{quoted}

His Q is an empowered basic attack, A simple, Empowered Basic attack. Geez. Thing is Fervor stacks twice as fast for Melee Champs. Each basic attack gives you 2 stacks. While ranged champions get one stack per hit

Again, yasuo isn't the only one abusing this

Blue Socialist14 votes

And you certainly don't need a map to find another champion with a Q as an empowered basic attack.

crippler3816 votes

who needs a map?

DeusVult10 votes

Ya Aatrox literally Ezreal no Fiora other Gnar champs Graves can Irelia run Jax fervor MasterYi of Shyvana battle, Udyr build MonkeyKing tanky XinZhao and Yasuo win...

YumaS2Astral10 votes

Fizz Ekko Trundle

YumScrumptious961 votes

Knockup comes every 7 or 8 seconds early game. Plus it has a cast time so that's even more time to react.

venomous frost2 votes

you can't react to it when he EQ you, and he can hold it for so long he just zones you off cs the entire time.

Startz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=venomous frost,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IKYi2qd7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-18T18:42:20.177+0000)

Why is it that fervor is only broken on bruiser yasuo? Maybe the reasoning is in his kit

like his really low cooldown Q that applies fervor And the knockup that comes with it for free every, like what, 5 seconds?

Why not make his Q only apply crit, and no other onhit effects

Well fervor is not an onhit, abilities themselves proc fervor, something like triforce isn't unhealthy on Yasuo. And he wasn't that bad before all these bruiser and mastery changes. I personally don't see the need for a nerf to his kit but damage on some of these items and masteries to be tuned down.

sortitus3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MRV DayDream,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IKYi2qd7,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-08-19T02:21:41.527+0000)

Well fervor is not an onhit, abilities themselves proc fervor, something like triforce isn't unhealthy on Yasuo. And he wasn't that bad before all these bruiser and mastery changes. I personally don't see the need for a nerf to his kit but damage on some of these items and masteries to be tuned down.

Fervor IS an on-hit. Abilities do not proc Fervor, they increase stacks which are used to calculate the bonus on-hit damage for your next basic attack. Read the in-game, client, or wiki description. They all are very clear about it being an on-hit effect.

If Fervor applied on abilities, you can bet it would be THE mastery to take for any AD champion. Darius bleeding targets for an additional 112 damage per second for 5 seconds even at a single stack sounds just a LITTLE bit overpowered (it's coded as a spell effect, which can be confirmed by building Rylai's on him if you want to check for yourself).

I wear Givenchy14 votes

Im so sick of hearing about this champion.. Please just fucking delete him.

Warlord Zudane9 votes

Fix Yas: make his abilities use energy.

Abandon8 votes

I agree to an extent that keystone masteries have lead to an array of balancing problems and just downright unhealthy gameplay/powercreep but I think in Yasuo's case, it's more of a combination of him just synergising too well with just about everything. When Warlords was released and even after it got nerfed, we blamed the keystone moreso than Yasuo's ability to abuse it, Fervor was nerfed but even now we're going to attack it again just to get back at Yasuo.

While I'd rather play the game without masteries like all the season previous to this one, I think the real culprit for Yasuo's unending dilemma is Yasuo himself.

Keevalroy6 votes

You guys seriously need to look into adjusting keystones because they offer too much power.

OR, they could remove them and revert back to the mastery system that worked. That'd be much better for game health and balance.

Truly Prideful5 votes

I'm in the boat that wants keystones gone next season, I don't see how they can get them to a point where they are balanced. Were the old masteries boring? Sure, but they didn't break the game like the keystones do. At least then they won't feel the need to destroy a champion just because a keystone is breaking them.

MunchCrunchLunch5 votes

frevor is too strong on everyone.

i had a full tank warwick. with not even a finished cinderhulk. do about 300 damage to me just from the mastery itself. which was about 1/3rd of the total damage that killed me.

frevor op nerf frevor right now

it was already considered op when they buffed it by reducing the stacks and increasing the on hit per stack.

ff4sk5 votes

Forget items and masteries, people need to stop excusing this overloaded mess of a champion every time he starts abusing a new build.

Maybe it isn't the items that are the issue, maybe it's the champion itself.

Riot needs to either rework him and give him an actual fucking weakness instead of leaving him as overloaded as he is now or remove him from the game.

Bisaknosp2 votes

not maybe its the champ for sure

DunkinNoobs4 votes

I'm still not really convinced. Bruiser Yasuo still sees basically no pro play, even though Gnar is extremely popular in the pro scene right now. If he were really that strong, why are the pros still picking Irelia over him?

HateDaddy18 votes

{quoted}

I'm still not really convinced. Bruiser Yasuo still sees basically no pro play, even though Gnar is extremely popular in the pro scene right now. If he were really that strong, why are the pros still picking Irelia over him?

Because irelia is easier to play and spikes harder with Trinity

I also don't think bruiser yasuo would be good competitively.

And I don't mind normal yasuo, just this solo queue bruiser off build that doesn't lose to anything.

DunkinNoobs5 votes

Honestly, it's not even Yasuo, but the items he uses. His core is item 3078 item 3022. Both of those items are fairly overtuned right now. Mallet gives too much tankiness and Triforce is too cheap. Resolve those issues and Bruiser Yasuo will sort itself out. Fervors damage mid and late game could stand to be trimmed a bit as well: 112 damage on hit at lvl 18 is kinda ridiculous. I called that one being nerfed from the moment those numbers hit the pbe and I'm amazed they've lasted this long.

HateDaddy8 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, it's not even Yasuo, but the items he uses. His core is item 3078 item 3022. Both of those items are fairly overtuned right now. Mallet gives too much tankiness and Triforce is too cheap. Resolve those issues and Bruiser Yasuo will sort itself out. Fervors damage mid and late game could stand to be trimmed a bit as well: 112 damage on hit at lvl 18 is kinda ridiculous. I called that one being nerfed from the moment those numbers hit the pbe and I'm amazed they've lasted this long.

yeah I agree, it's a combination of things. Trinity didn't need any changes tbh. Frozen Mallet is only good conditionally but in this case, it's abusive as hell because of all the on-hit yasuo's Q provides and his general stickiness. But I still hold fervor to be more responsible than anything.

ProfDrDeath7 votes

As much as I like item 3022 as an item (ah, fond S2 memories of Fratma's with FoN...), it has no real place in the game anymore.

Samflash33 votes

What about Rylais?

Mandang01 votes

Lol yep... Entire threads dedicated to complaining about Rylai's being OP, and yet the majority of players still think Mallet sucks.

YumaS2Astral5 votes

It is not that Mallet sucks. The problem is that most champions cannot take proper advantage of it.

ADCs could take serious advantage of it due to their range, despite the fact that the slow is slighty weaker if you are ranged. However, they need to buy many other items first (attack speed items, crit items, armor pen items, lifesteal items) they simply don't have time to buy Frozen Mallet most of time.

Melee carries cannot take proper advantage of it because they are unsafe. Examples include Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Fiora. And just like ADCs, they need other items first.

Most bruisers do not auto-attack that much or they don't have a lot of mobility, so they are better off not purchasing Frozen Mallet.

Yasuo is one of the very few champions which can afford to build Frozen Mallet early. He doesn't really need other items first (except Trinity Force) and has a lot of stickiness, and with his kit, he can overcome the fact that he is melee.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

I'm still not really convinced. Bruiser Yasuo still sees basically no pro play, even though Gnar is extremely popular in the pro scene right now. If he were really that strong, why are the pros still picking Irelia over him?

Tbh I kind of agree.

I mean, the build is certainly good, but I've not really seen or experienced anything that would convince me that it's so powerful.

If Yasuo really beat everyone early game (lol'd at that, he doesn't), and also became a champion with no weaknesses when built bruiser, why is he not a staple of pro play? He'd be easily the best top laner in the game.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

Tbh I kind of agree.

I mean, the build is certainly good, but I've not really seen or experienced anything that would convince me that it's so powerful.

If Yasuo really beat everyone early game (lol'd at that, he doesn't), and also became a champion with no weaknesses when built bruiser, why is he not a staple of pro play? He'd be easily the best top laner in the game.

There aren't a lot of champions who actually beat him early game. Most bruisers actually lose to him early and then once they hit mid game with a durability+damage build, they can basically burst yasuo. Bruiser yasuo pretty much prevents him from being bursted. It takes a few items to get to that point (namely Trinity and FM) but once he does, he simply doesn't lose duels.

dominusx3 votes

totally agree everytime i go even in lane as yasuo i switch to bruiser and stomp. Fervor adds WAY too much dmg if you add the arpen from R + they wont ever escape you with frozen mallet slow it needs to go you can even beat Darius post 2 items with it. and i dont think any champ can 1v1 darius except Illaoi Gnar(kite) Vayne(kite) Olaf and Trundle maybe Kayle can work too or a godlike shen W

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

totally agree everytime i go even in lane as yasuo i switch to bruiser and stomp. Fervor adds WAY too much dmg if you add the arpen from R + they wont ever escape you with frozen mallet slow it needs to go you can even beat Darius post 2 items with it. and i dont think any champ can 1v1 darius except Illaoi Gnar(kite) Vayne(kite) Olaf and Trundle maybe Kayle can work too or a godlike shen W

Jax and farmed Nasus can

dominusx1 votes

Forgot Jax existed but still gonna be really close if darius has randuins Nasus i dunno.... maybe if he has perfect stacks but still darius can outsustain with a bunch of Q's

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

Forgot Jax existed but still gonna be really close if darius has randuins Nasus i dunno.... maybe if he has perfect stacks but still darius can outsustain with a bunch of Q's

With wither, Nasus can permanently stay inside of Darius' Q and never give him a heal.

Jax will beat him no matter what Darius builds as long as he picks up Trinity/gunblade

LXII4 votes

{quoted}

totally agree everytime i go even in lane as yasuo i switch to bruiser and stomp. Fervor adds WAY too much dmg if you add the arpen from R + they wont ever escape you with frozen mallet slow it needs to go you can even beat Darius post 2 items with it. and i dont think any champ can 1v1 darius except Illaoi Gnar(kite) Vayne(kite) Olaf and Trundle maybe Kayle can work too or a godlike shen W

"Nobody can beat Darius!! ....except like these 15 people. But Yasuo shouldn't be able to!"

cocacolalips3 votes

You can't be serious, Yasuo gets trashed in lane by every single bruiser and other melee champion, that's why he is played mid and not top, so he gets to fight mages.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

You can't be serious, Yasuo gets trashed in lane by every single bruiser and other melee champion, that's why he is played mid and not top, so he gets to fight mages.

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo

He's played more often as a top laner, and has been better as one for a while.

cocacolalips1 votes

That just means he gets trashed even harder by some popular mages, Azir and Viktor come to mind.

If you look at your link, you'll see he has 45% winrate against every single bruiser, while he has 50-55% win rate against mages and tanks.

Do you even read what you post?

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

That just means he gets trashed even harder by some popular mages, Azir and Viktor come to mind.

Considering that Azir is fucking dog shit I doubt it.

Top lane Yasuo is good.

Tobias Brackner2 votes

He has Yasuo weaknesses

The weaknesses Yasuo has

Use those

Insanity Song4 votes

Read that in kronk voice

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