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It feels like some people from every ELO are good.

Ok sure but why··14 votes·9,509 views

I've just been watching some of the Higher-ELO players (Which I'll keep unnamed to deter any "LOL they're not good" arguments), and they're in games like, Diamond, and Masters, and stuff. One game was with a Kai'sa. One instance, he uses his W on a half-health enemy, ults in, and gets a kill. Woo hoo. A few minutes later, in a teamfight, the enemy Singed ults and starts B-lining it for Kai'sa. She does everything she can to avoid him, but he inevitably catches up, flings her into a bad position, and she dies. And it makes me wonder.

Doesn't that exact same stuff happen in Silver? I sure as hell see that all the time. When people talk about how majestic players in Diamond+ are, I would always wonder what they would do differently in certain scenarios. If you've already blown your flash the last time Singed B-lined for you, and your team doesn't manage to lock Singed down to keep you away from an immanent demise, what's the difference in options between what a Silver player would do and a Diamond? Possibly use your ult to blink an extra two feet away to buy you an extra second of time? Dive in, let him fling you right off the bat before ulting onto the outside again, praying the enemy doesn't nuke you in the 0.75 seconds you're unable to perform actions in and praying that Singed's crystal scepter doesn't leave you slowed as he catches back up to you afterwards?

Here's what I think. Thanks for the mediocre skill-ceiling of some champions, it's hard to be anything other than a "good" player or a "bad" player. Farming, last-hitting, freezing waves, knowing your kill-potential and limits on when to do things, map-awareness --- those are all knowledgeable traits a person either "does have" or "does not have." Being "good" just means you're at the very least knowledgeable of what on earth you're actually doing in-game.

So, what do the different tiers represent? Well, it seems they just represent the percentage of good players. And in each diving upwards you go, that percentage rises, as all the absolute tossers stay trolling down below. There will be a few horrid players in Diamond+, because a few people got boosted up there, or because a Diamond player just got out of the hospital after receiving brain surgery and decided to unwind with a couple Ranked games. Silver is gonna have a whole lot more bad players, because Riot allows level 30 accounts into this ELO, and these people have absolutely no idea what they're doing half the time.

TL;DR: Please put the feeding, brain-dead miscreants on the enemy team, Riot. Please. It's been 7 games in a row. Stop it.

35 Comments

DW Diana7 votes

A lot of Diamond + players have found problems with smurfs in Silver. Unless you can hard carry 60%+ games you're got getting out, and that's just the way of it. A lot of silver players should be a higher then they are, but then a lot should also be LOWER then they are. The problem in silver is you just have little actual control over whether you win or lose because whether you've been playing a while, have macro and your can play your champion into any matchup, it's more about how many people on your team have reached 30 for the first time, fed in all their placements, and still ended up S3. Sadly the more games you carry, the more you are facilitating a higher ranking in those that are out of their depth.

I can honestly say I have friends who should be plat minimum, but have only just managed to get out of silver now having played over 400 games and starting the season S2, while I've played less then 200 games and climbed from B1 to S2. It's the "higher end" of silver that is hardest because of the new player/account placements.

I won't say which rank I believe I belong because I rarely play ranked (especially with the current meta) and don't want to seem disingenuous, but can say I've played with a lot of Plat-Diamond players who are worse then myself and some of my other friends, and are only ranking so high because they STARTED in high gold/low plat (they admit as much).

Ok sure but why5 votes

I can agree entirely. I was Gold 2 last year, and going 8/2 in my new-years placements shot me down to Silver 3, and I've been struggling to escape this hell-hole a second time. I didn't get worse! All the knowledge and experience I've accumulated over these years didn't magically poof away! I have a ton of Silver friends who I could solemnly vouch are really, really good, and I have a ton of Gold friends who actually sacrifice their MMR just to duo with me because they know I can hold my own well enough to not burden my team. But when I get three games in a row of 0/11/2 trundle supports, it just completely shatters any hopes I can possibly have of climbing my way out of here. Sometimes it feels like I'm just cursed.

DW Diana2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IBbVqEE1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T19:31:43.916+0000)

I can agree entirely. I was Gold 2 last year, and going 8/2 in my new-years placements shot me down to Silver 3, and I've been struggling to escape this hell-hole a second time. I didn't get worse! All the knowledge and experience I've accumulated over these years didn't magically poof away! I have a ton of Silver friends who I could solemnly vouch are really, really good, and I have a ton of Gold friends who actually sacrifice their MMR just to duo with me because they know I can hold my own well enough to not burden my team. But when I get three games in a row of 0/11/2 trundle supports, it just completely shatters any hopes I can possibly have of climbing my way out of here. Sometimes it feels like I'm just cursed.

It's a very common story for anyone in Silver mate, and you're not the only one. I tend not to play ranked because in normals I get Gold and Plat players, while in silver I get rubbish.

Ok sure but why1 votes

Yeah, it's kinda funny, because sometimes I play norms, and then I get added by the platinum players in my team because I managed to carry them that game. Sad times.

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IBbVqEE1,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T20:17:31.302+0000)

Yeah, it's kinda funny, because sometimes I play norms, and then I get added by the platinum players in my team because I managed to carry them that game. Sad times.

It comes from having different MMR's between ranked and normals. As I said I have friends who are Plat + who I play with and can easily hold my own against other plat/diamonds, so my normals MMR is much higher then my ranked one where I either manage to carry 3 out of 4 other players or lose MMR. That's not to say it doesn't swing both ways, we've all had those games where every lane won and we've just stomped the enemy team, but I do feel the current system aids those that consistently perform badly while hindering those that consistently perform well (Key word: Consistently!)

PyroLux4 votes

You have 1252 games in silver with a negative winrate. Do you really believe that you haven't gotten worse?

Skycrowx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IBbVqEE1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-28T19:26:16.487+0000)

A lot of Diamond + players have found problems with smurfs in Silver. Unless you can hard carry 60%+ games you're got getting out, and that's just the way of it. A lot of silver players should be a higher then they are, but then a lot should also be LOWER then they are. The problem in silver is you just have little actual control over whether you win or lose because whether you've been playing a while, have macro and your can play your champion into any matchup, it's more about how many people on your team have reached 30 for the first time, fed in all their placements, and still ended up S3. Sadly the more games you carry, the more you are facilitating a higher ranking in those that are out of their depth.

I can honestly say I have friends who should be plat minimum, but have only just managed to get out of silver now having played over 400 games and starting the season S2, while I've played less then 200 games and climbed from B1 to S2. It's the "higher end" of silver that is hardest because of the new player/account placements.

I won't say which rank I believe I belong because I rarely play ranked (especially with the current meta) and don't want to seem disingenuous, but can say I've played with a lot of Plat-Diamond players who are worse then myself and some of my other friends, and are only ranking so high because they STARTED in high gold/low plat (they admit as much).

"plat minimum" and had to play "400" games in Silver. I'm sorry but they are not "plat" minimum. One of the main reason why it is so easy to climb out of low elo is that the enemys consistently overstay on lane when there is a "killwindow" placed on them. (they tend to stay with 70% of their health and no pot at midlane for example, while u have ignite) a player who would be anywhere close to a Plat level of gameknowledge would simply kill over and over his lane enemy and easely climb out fo Silver. That is the honest truth about this. Stop talking like it's hard to carry low elo, when all u have to do is being a little good at mechanics and understanding how much your all in potential is. Your friends aren't on a plat level and i don't care if u believe so. They just aren't. a Platinum player can not stuck in Silver, we are talking about 2 tiers difference. There is no way.

Rins Thigh Socks6 votes

Rank positively correlates with the amount of mistakes made in games. High elo players make few mistakes that can be capitalized on but high elo players also recognize the mistakes more readily. This means games look roughly the same no matter what elo you go to but they're using openings to make these plays that low elos would never consider.

High elo also means you can make decisions more quickly and more confidently. That line about good players knowing what's going on in the game is completely and utterly untrue. That's not what determines a good player. A player's working knowledge and ability to shift the game tempo based on this knowledge is what makes him good. Decision-making is a skill, meaning it's not , "you either know it or you don't".

It's true you can force your way into D5 by using cheesy strategies and snowballing off that but that almost exclusively applies to one tricks who are only good at one aspect of the game (their strat + their champion). Also boosted players. That being said they are not the majority of players and should not be used as evidence high elo players aren't THAT good.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

Completely agree. I know it annoys people, but I love to compare to sports.

High school basketball and the NBA look similar to the untrained eye. That doesn't mean that high school players are on Lebron James's level. It's exactly what you're describing; even though many of the tactics are the same, they are executed at a different level, with a different level of precision.

Another good analogue here is soccer, because positioning is so important in that sport (or so I here from my friends that actually play). It may be that once a Singed is B-lining for you, your options are limited whether you are in Diamond or Silver. But hte Diamond player knows that and thus tries to avoid scenarios where Singed can successfully do that. There is still skill involved.

Rins Thigh Socks4 votes

{quoted}

Completely agree. I know it annoys people, but I love to compare to sports.

High school basketball and the NBA look similar to the untrained eye. That doesn't mean that high school players are on Lebron James's level. It's exactly what you're describing; even though many of the tactics are the same, they are executed at a different level, with a different level of precision.

Another good analogue here is soccer, because positioning is so important in that sport (or so I here from my friends that actually play). It may be that once a Singed is B-lining for you, your options are limited whether you are in Diamond or Silver. But hte Diamond player knows that and thus tries to avoid scenarios where Singed can successfully do that. There is still skill involved.

Yup.

People think the skill is in the ability to make outplays when the real skill is knowing how to not be in the position to be potentially outplayed in the first place.

Dryditch2 votes

This is the single hardest thing for people to realize, and it wasn't until very recently that I started recognizing it myself.

Not saying I'm a good player, but my play has drastically improved since I started to actually understand what higher ELO players mean when they talk about "high percentage plays."

Ok sure but why1 votes

There's still a problem with comparing League to real-world scenarios. Lebron James can train his mind, as well as League players can. But real people can train their bodies as well. Lebron can practice, work out and train day after day, and he'll be a strong, muscly man, capable of doing extraordinary things.

That can't be applied to the game. If you're playing Ashe, and an enemy Warwick leaps up at you and completely stomps you into the ground, you can't tell yourself, "Well, maybe if I practice Ashe enough, she'll gain enough bicep muscle to push Warwick off of her," or, "If I practice kiting enough, maybe Ashe will stop temporarily rooting herself every single time I want to use an auto attack or Volley." You can't do that, because each champion is gated behind the limitations of only four abilities, alongside their respective cooldowns. The only thing you can think in that situation is, "Ah. What a shame I already used my flash, ult, and QSS on the Malzahar that flashed for me thirty seconds ago. I guess this is just where I'm supposed to die, now."

Plus, if there was a scenario where your team starts a fight away from your tower, and you're given the choice of abandoning your team to a losing 4v5 or putting yourself in the large risk of Singed chasing you down, what would you do? Use your elite skill of not fighting and let your team die, since you have no control over their actions?

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

That can't be applied to the game.

Roughly 80% disagree. You can train your reflexes and practice your combos in this game just like you do in any other sport.

Plus, if there was a scenario where your team starts a fight away from your tower, and you're given the choice of abandoning your team to a losing 4v5 or putting yourself in the large risk of Singed chasing you down, what would you do?

You ping them back if you're good, because you understand that starting that fight is a no-win situation. This is exactly what I was trying to point out before; the mere assumption that a situation like that plays out the same in Silver and Diamond is flawed. You don't have to be in that situation at all, and that's how Diamond players can express their skill compared to Silvers.

You can't control your team. Even imaqtpie can't carry an all-bronze squad against a pro team; there are limits. But to act like there isn't a clear skill difference is folly. There is, and you do climb when you get better, because that's 20% of your team that you can control.

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

Roughly 80% disagree. You can train your reflexes and practice your combos in this game just like you do in any other sport.

You ping them back if you're good, because you understand that starting that fight is a no-win situation. This is exactly what I was trying to point out before; the mere assumption that a situation like that plays out the same in Silver and Diamond is flawed. You don't have to be in that situation at all, and that's how Diamond players can express their skill compared to Silvers.

You can't control your team. Even imaqtpie can't carry an all-bronze squad against a pro team; there are limits. But to act like there isn't a clear skill difference is folly. There is, and you do climb when you get better, because that's 20% of your team that you can control.

yeah you can train your reflexs.. but at the end of the day, after u have played for 2 years.. your reflex arn't going to get any better.

you can be a player like myself who has very bad click accuracy, but is VERY good at predicting enemy players and landing skillshot.

one of the reasons i play league over games like SC2 is i can only control 1 char at a time, i cant do multiple things at once.

[tangent] i actually came to league FROM a SC2 custom game called "hero attack" which was in the top 3 custom g.ames for wings of liberty and the early half of heart of the swarm.. and once the original map creator left and someone else took over the making of the game i was one of the people to help on the design and balance team for Hero attack 3X. until he two left and the game died. (and i then went to league in 2013) [/tangent]

there is no more "improving" i can do my mechanical skill, it hasn't gotten any better since season 4.. its why i can never played adc.. because i cant stutter step to save my life, (or anyone on my team's).

i am "silver" becuase i dont play ranked. and i dont play ranked becuase i am tried of me and a ranomd peopl spending 50 min in a extremely hardfought victory, to barely scrap by with a win only to have the next game decided in 6 min becuase top lane feeds 0/12 by 8 min and then afks

about 70 % of games are decided in champ select or before.

sure i can make a difference in the games i actaully MATTER in.

but i dont play champs that can 1v5,

if im playing nidalee

it donest matter if i am full build lvl 18 and the enemies are lvl 13

if they group as five.. and my teammates dome come to help.. i cant stop them from taking the tower. that's just how it works.

i dont play any champs that can 1v5 hard carry unless they decide to run at me one at a time.

and sure.. i get random wins for no reason as well, but those don't make be feel good. and losing games becuase of the same reason is damn near enraging.

so i stopped playing ranked.. it's not fun.

when i play with my plat friends, i actually have a higher winrate, and BETTER kda, than i do in my silver games.

i know my actaully skill lvl is easily gold and probaly plat.

i easily have the game knowledge or a diamond or even a master, but since i have horrible mechanics i would never deserve such a rank.

i have known for over 2 years i would be a much better coach than a player.. because my mechanical skill frankly sucks and I'm not getting any younger.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

Completely agree. I know it annoys people, but I love to compare to sports.

High school basketball and the NBA look similar to the untrained eye. That doesn't mean that high school players are on Lebron James's level. It's exactly what you're describing; even though many of the tactics are the same, they are executed at a different level, with a different level of precision.

Another good analogue here is soccer, because positioning is so important in that sport (or so I here from my friends that actually play). It may be that once a Singed is B-lining for you, your options are limited whether you are in Diamond or Silver. But hte Diamond player knows that and thus tries to avoid scenarios where Singed can successfully do that. There is still skill involved.

Completely missed the point of the argument, he meant some people in silver feel like that should be higher and some feel like they should be lower. I mean i can pull up diamond players who feed their ass off and silver players who hardly die.

Theres a lot of difference not mentioned here and very surprised a herald of all things didnt touch on it. One of the big things is the macro play is better in higher elos.

Another problem with silver in particular is that its the default elo. Meaning if u get placed there you will be there with a mix of people of varying experience including new people. Bronze is a joke because everyone there is either new or bad. Silver is mixed with: New, Bad, Good, and smurfs.

DW Diana2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IBbVqEE1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-28T19:40:22.827+0000)

Rank positively correlates with the amount of mistakes made in games. High elo players make few mistakes that can be capitalized on but high elo players also recognize the mistakes more readily. This means games look roughly the same no matter what elo you go to but they're using openings to make these plays that low elos would never consider.

High elo also means you can make decisions more quickly and more confidently. That line about good players knowing what's going on in the game is completely and utterly untrue. That's not what determines a good player. A player's working knowledge and ability to shift the game tempo based on this knowledge is what makes him good. Decision-making is a skill, meaning it's not , "you either know it or you don't".

It's true you can force your way into D5 by using cheesy strategies and snowballing off that but that almost exclusively applies to one tricks who are only good at one aspect of the game (their strat + their champion). Also boosted players. That being said they are not the majority of players and should not be used as evidence high elo players aren't THAT good.

I actually agree entirely with what you said here, but I feel you may have missed the point a little (no offence intended!)

If I got high Plat in season 6, then my placements in Season 7 I will likely also be placed Plat. This means the other people I am playing with have either reached the same point as me the previous season or have ground their asses off to get there. This means that maintaining my rank is much easier/fairer then if I was suddenly surrounded by teammates who were gold 5 or Silver 1 the previous season. This will then happen again the next season and so on for as long as I can maintain a 50% winrate with people of equal skill.

HOWEVER, if I finished low Silver or Gold season 6, then I will find myself placed in Bronze or Silver in season 7, surrounded by anything from others from gold who did well in their placements but got a rank below (G5) or people who have been playing the game for only a few weeks and reached level 30. This means the difference in skill level ranges from complete noob who has only SEEN maybe 1/5 of the champions in the game let alone know what they all DO, to someone who has been playing for 2 seasons, has learnt macro, knows most if not all the champions and their abilities, and has a skill level of Gold +.

A perfect example of this is my friend Yanick (RL Name to avoid Boards rules/abuse at him). He finished G1 last season after only playing about 150 games and starting at G5. This season he has JUST managed to get out of Silver having lost only 2 of his placements and being placed S1. He played more that 500 games to get there! That's 1 rank that was in his own words 10x harder to do then the 5 he did last season. "Maybe the meta was better for him last season?" NO. His best champions have been Meta most of the Season! He just hasn't been able to consistently 1v9. Meanwhile a Plat Yorick main was on the boards a month ago bragging about being Plat when he STARTED plat this season and has a 48% winrate, lower CS average then bronze players, and less then 2 KDA. The truth is the only reason that guy was still plat was because he STARTED there, and the same is true for so many.

That's my two cents anyway.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IBbVqEE1,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-06-28T20:12:37.170+0000)

I actually agree entirely with what you said here, but I feel you may have missed the point a little (no offence intended!)

If I got high Plat in season 6, then my placements in Season 7 I will likely also be placed Plat. This means the other people I am playing with have either reached the same point as me the previous season or have ground their asses off to get there. This means that maintaining my rank is much easier/fairer then if I was suddenly surrounded by teammates who were gold 5 or Silver 1 the previous season. This will then happen again the next season and so on for as long as I can maintain a 50% winrate with people of equal skill.

HOWEVER, if I finished low Silver or Gold season 6, then I will find myself placed in Bronze or Silver in season 7, surrounded by anything from others from gold who did well in their placements but got a rank below (G5) or people who have been playing the game for only a few weeks and reached level 30. This means the difference in skill level ranges from complete noob who has only SEEN maybe 1/5 of the champions in the game let alone know what they all DO, to someone who has been playing for 2 seasons, has learnt macro, knows most if not all the champions and their abilities, and has a skill level of Gold +.

A perfect example of this is my friend Yanick (RL Name to avoid Boards rules/abuse at him). He finished G1 last season after only playing about 150 games and starting at G5. This season he has JUST managed to get out of Silver having lost only 2 of his placements and being placed S1. He played more that 500 games to get there! That's 1 rank that was in his own words 10x harder to do then the 5 he did last season. "Maybe the meta was better for him last season?" NO. His best champions have been Meta most of the Season! He just hasn't been able to consistently 1v9. Meanwhile a Plat Yorick main was on the boards a month ago bragging about being Plat when he STARTED plat this season and has a 48% winrate, lower CS average then bronze players, and less then 2 KDA. The truth is the only reason that guy was still plat was because he STARTED there, and the same is true for so many.

That's my two cents anyway.

You're describing a very common fact of statistical analysis.

Fair systems aren't fair because they're perfectly equal, in the same way a coin flip isn't 50/50 because every time you flip it it'll alternate between heads and tails. They're fair because as the attempts get more numerous, the true value becomes more apparent.

Fact is sometimes people get knocked down a little farther than they should, some people get placed a little higher than they should. Anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove the elo system because all statistical systems are fundamentally flawed, they're just trying to decrease the variance as much as possible.

Also, when it comes to skill caps, lets measure it in mistakes per minute. Lets assume Challenger players make 5 mistakes per minute. They're not big mistakes, they're things like walking the wrong way around the minions, not landing perfect skillshots, or making small, almost negligible, albeit bad trades. As you go down the tiers, the amount of mistakes increases exponentially. In Silver and Gold, you're making like 25-40 mistakes per minute in terms of movements. If it only takes 1 punished mistake to get a decisive lead, and the person tilts, that number of mistakes increases.

Maybe he got complacent and he did get worse over time since he assumed he wouldn't have to work as hard to do as well. Maybe his opponents got better, but the difference between Silver and Gold is so small that it's easy to think you should be Gold when you're struggling with Silver.

Lastly, I would like to point out that, unless you were P3+ it's not likely you'll stay in Plat after a rank reset unless you win 6+ of your provisional games. So do keep that in mind when thinking about how Plat players are still in Plat. They could also be worse players than they were last season but their drop just wasn't as pronounced.

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IBbVqEE1,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-06-28T20:56:33.990+0000)

You're describing a very common fact of statistical analysis.

Fair systems aren't fair because they're perfectly equal, in the same way a coin flip isn't 50/50 because every time you flip it it'll alternate between heads and tails. They're fair because as the attempts get more numerous, the true value becomes more apparent.

Fact is sometimes people get knocked down a little farther than they should, some people get placed a little higher than they should. Anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove the elo system because all statistical systems are fundamentally flawed, they're just trying to decrease the variance as much as possible.

Also, when it comes to skill caps, lets measure it in mistakes per minute. Lets assume Challenger players make 5 mistakes per minute. They're not big mistakes, they're things like walking the wrong way around the minions, not landing perfect skillshots, or making small, almost negligible, albeit bad trades. As you go down the tiers, the amount of mistakes increases exponentially. In Silver and Gold, you're making like 25-40 mistakes per minute in terms of movements. If it only takes 1 punished mistake to get a decisive lead, and the person tilts, that number of mistakes increases.

Maybe he got complacent and he did get worse over time since he assumed he wouldn't have to work as hard to do as well. Maybe his opponents got better, but the difference between Silver and Gold is so small that it's easy to think you should be Gold when you're struggling with Silver.

Lastly, I would like to point out that, unless you were P3+ it's not likely you'll stay in Plat after a rank reset unless you win 6+ of your provisional games. So do keep that in mind when thinking about how Plat players are still in Plat. They could also be worse players than they were last season but their drop just wasn't as pronounced.

The point I was making is the current system grants you a continuous benefit of the doubt each season without it being proven accurate as long as you are in a high gold plus finishing point. In contrast high silver is given a continuous handicap everytime a new player starts playing ranked games (as the game gets more popular etc). In short the currrent system has an inherent bias towards those who performed well in previous seasons, whether they perform well in the curren season or not, while the opposite is true for those that finish in G3 or lower.

There are solutions to this that have been suggested by members of the boards, pro players/streams, and by riot themselves, but none have yet gone live. With the amount of data on hand regarding each role and the attributes that show a good performance vs a poor one, the current "win or lose" system is far to linear to be considered fair, while expanding this beyond "Win or Lose" would need to be counterbalanced correctly to ensure a more positive and fair system. An example of this would be KDA: This is a great stats to show the performance of most positions, but when you consider the 2/9 Yorick in top lane who single handedly went on a split push that took 2 top towers, and inhib, killed the enemy jungler that came to stop him leading to a baron and won the team the game in about 3 minutes, you would need to counter balance KDA by considering other factors such as damage, healing, turrets taken, cs etc.

The current system is simple, which is why it is still there, but simple is very rarely analytically accurate as it ignores most of the data, and when you cannot really be accurate regarding a players ability/skill level then you can't really assign a rank to that person accurately either. Thus the current system is fundamentally flawed even before the aforementioned inherent bias assigned to those of a high enough rank to avoid high silver, but new players, being in their team.

Sasogwa5 votes

Very high elo players are extremely potent at exploiting mistakes. Where a good mechanic silver player would do a good teamfight, a solid/decent CSing ; a master-tier level player would just completely dumpster his opponents if he has any occasion, you give him a finger, he takes the whole arm, if you know what I mean, he will snowball as hard as possible on any borderline insignificant mistake you make and punish everything. And since silvers do minor mistakes all the time, it's extremely likely a master smurf will carry games on his own. Some games will be hard, some games can be unwinnable due to sheer feeding, but the average winrate of a high elo smurf easily exceeds 70-80%

Skycrowx1 votes

{quoted}

Very high elo players are extremely potent at exploiting mistakes. Where a good mechanic silver player would do a good teamfight, a solid/decent CSing ; a master-tier level player would just completely dumpster his opponents if he has any occasion, you give him a finger, he takes the whole arm, if you know what I mean, he will snowball as hard as possible on any borderline insignificant mistake you make and punish everything. And since silvers do minor mistakes all the time, it's extremely likely a master smurf will carry games on his own. Some games will be hard, some games can be unwinnable due to sheer feeding, but the average winrate of a high elo smurf easily exceeds 70-80%

That is correct. On my main account i'm hovering between d3-d4 elo sometimes higher sometimes lower, and i absolutely faceroll in Silver/gold elo. It starts to become more harder in Platinum Elo. Silver/gold players are reacting to late to the danger that already has buildet up. usually they tend to give you 2-3 kills very easely, and after that it's just game over for the entire team. i think i reached with a 80% winrate to around platinum 4 then i started to duo with a buddy and learned him the game. Still have around 57% wr and i'm close to platinum 1. But that account was never meant to climb into diamond or smth. i just practice sometimes here and there

Kurt Hyzan1 votes

Because past diamond 2, people are either boosted or just lucky xd

hi ìm groot1 votes

My interpretations of the elos after a lot of smurfing.

Bronze - This is where I have the least amount of experience, but as far as I can tell they are not gamers, but play league because its popular. They're either distracted while playing, have technical issues, or have trouble processing what they're seeing fast enough for this game. It impossible any way that I know of to legitimately have a bronze smurf without account sharing, but I got placed there with just a few months of experience with league during season 5, after being mid silver most season 4, and it was a cake walk to carry games playing shit I didn't even have much experience with.

Silver - This is where inexperience and attitude is a HUGE issue. Large mixture of difference skill levels combined with the frustration this causes makes for some extremely troll games, but its still a fairly easy elo to 1v5 in so it's not to big a deal if you're not dumb enough to be playing a champ that requires ANYTHING from your teammates.

Low gold- Same as silver but alot more people feel they've transcended because they're no longer technically silver and become really annoying and impossible to talk to.

mid gold- This is where league starts to actually be fun, games can actually be more even and go into mid game without to much fiesta, as people start to have enough mechanics to at least not get trashed in lane, and have a concept of rotations. This is where league starts to look like league imo.

High gold/low plat- Much better mechanics typically than their gold counterparts, but still close to no knowledge or care about macro play. Games are frustrating due to the mix of capp'd out plat 5's that gave up on aspirations of going higher so they're playing 4fun shit, while vs'ing people with decent mechanics.

High plat/low diamond - Depends on which side got the most D5's. The team with the most D5's lose. This is a slight exaggeration, but holy fk you're playing with a ton of smurfs since they stick around this elo longer than in any other on their way to high elo, combined with the people who got D5 and are done. It makes games legit basically luck based and is why there's such a large jump in the number of games u see from people in low diamond vs mid/high. They spend alot of time here.

LegitBusinessman1 votes

First game of the day my Talon goes 0/2 in 5 minutes and ragequits. The next game my Nasus, who has clearly purchased his account, sits under tower just Eing random stuff, stands next to cannon minions not taking them let alone Qing them. He ends the game with 84 stacks in a 32 minute game.

So when people I deserve my elo, yeah... you know. This stuff happens.

Ifneth1 votes

Silver is just too big in terms of player count. While the difference between a Silver V and a Silver I player might be laughable to a Platinum or Diamond player, so would their absolute skill. The difference, as a fraction of their abilities, is therefore surprisingly large.

Cheesy aggression that always works in Bronze only sometimes works in Silver, inconsistently punishing and rewarding players for it. This inconsistent environment can impede the progress of players in the tier.

Danjeng1 votes

I've climbed steadily throughout the years, each year going up by one division , and I'm nearing Diamond now. I don't think my mechanix has improved much in this course of time. In fact, my reflexes probably slowed down since I began.

I can say that the biggest thing which separates a low elo player from a high elo player (Yeah ikik low diamond isn't high elo for you rank elitists, I'm speaking relative to my previous ranks), is decision making. Just knowing when to NOT go in will prevent you from losing trades or even dying. This is an incredibly useful asset to have. Their jungler is MIA? Enemy malz has flash and ult up? Back the fuck up before you get jumped.

That's just one of the small decisions you make. You also have to decide whether you want to risk getting poked for CS. Decide what items to buy in game. Decide what objectives to get, and so on. Mechanics don't mean shit if you decide to go in at the wrong time and end up dying.

Conclusion: Decision making is really important.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

I've climbed steadily throughout the years, each year going up by one division , and I'm nearing Diamond now. I don't think my mechanix has improved much in this course of time. In fact, my reflexes probably slowed down since I began.

I can say that the biggest thing which separates a low elo player from a high elo player (Yeah ikik low diamond isn't high elo for you rank elitists, I'm speaking relative to my previous ranks), is decision making. Just knowing when to NOT go in will prevent you from losing trades or even dying. This is an incredibly useful asset to have. Their jungler is MIA? Enemy malz has flash and ult up? Back the fuck up before you get jumped.

That's just one of the small decisions you make. You also have to decide whether you want to risk getting poked for CS. Decide what items to buy in game. Decide what objectives to get, and so on. Mechanics don't mean shit if you decide to go in at the wrong time and end up dying.

Conclusion: Decision making is really important.

Thats the thing about silver though, Decision making is mixed form game to game, theres no consistency with the teammates/enemies you get. Heck, even bronze is more consistent and its a clownfest.

TempName548461 votes

this is how players are distributed into ranks (you will see some misfits on the ladder because they haven't reached their elo yet):

horrible players, usually coinflip with little regard to rotations, matchups, builds or powerspikes, these end up in gold and bellow with the main difference being mechanical skill

pussy players, these players play passively as fuck and wait for their opponents to present you a massive opportunity which to take advantage of, these usually end up in plat to low dia with the main difference being their rotations

and then there are the good players that actually push the limits of the champions and know how to abuse small advantages, it might take em a while but they end up in mid dia+

Glory971 votes

I disagree. I'm not high elo just gold 2 or something but I know how far skill level goes upwards. I used to think the same way as you.

But the crucial part is that the genius of what high elo players do can't really be recognised by someone with low-elo. I couldn't see it either. Until I subscribed to skillcap on youtube which analyses and breaks down what high-elo players do when they play and I have to admit that I so far away from that level of play. And if I were to face any of these players that are analysed there I'd be utterly destroyed by them in laning phase. Imo this is the best league related content on youtube highly recommended for anybody https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFl1mGlf5j0Qno1Kxnyv6FA

Sure there are some situations like kiting singed or something where high elo isn't much different than low elo, but this doesn't apply onto laning phase. Those high elo players are right when they say that low-elo players are just bad (relativly to them). Because we are so bad that we can't even see how much worse we are.

Andrey03451 votes

I think it's the skill cap of the game which fell down recently. It used to be way more strategical and gave a lot more room for decisions. Now it's basically "grab scuttle", "gank, kill laner and get free tower" etc. I think the real difference between high elo player and low elo player is that they are good at everything: farming, micro, macro, calls, vision, mechanics (if we are talking about masters/challengers).

FrozenFrostFyre1 votes

I'm not exactly high elo myself in p2 currently but the biggest difference I see isn't usually mechanically. Sure the higher you go the better mechanics you see but I've seen lower tier players do really well mechanically. The problem here is that's only 1/4th of the game. There are many other things that are just as important such as 1) mapawareness, 2)powerspike knowledge/matchup knowledge 3) objective control/strategy.4) roaming potential. I see so many lower tier players consistently messing a majority of this stuff up and what is what will make the difference. You can QQ in all chat as much as you want about "win lane lose game", but at the end of the day people are usually we're they are for a reason. If you are having trouble climbing this would suggest you are not specializing in a role on a few specific champions and or you are not a well rounded player aka: good mechanics but really bad objective control or roaming.

GodlyBane1 votes

The players in low masters to silver 3 have practically no skill difference, just microplay difference (cs, wards, landing abilities, split pushing, map pressure etc)

Saezio1 votes

You can get out of silver with macro alone if you are really good at it. The thing is if you check the CS numbers and numbers of mistakes in lane the diamond players do are very different to those of silvers.

nm10101 votes

Ok sure but why is Kai'sa in position to be fighting Singed? Where is her team, what are they fighting over, is it worth it to be fighting, does your team comp even want to fight? The difference between silver and diamond isn't just how the fight goes, it is everything around the fight. Then again I've seen people hit diamond 5 with as low as a 46% win rate this season so who really gives a fuck about rank lol.

Galiö1 votes

Well in silver singed would be afk in a lane and backing every two seconds to shop/heal. Have a crappy build path and get no follow up to his fling and get murdered by the enemy team 40 minutes into the game when he finally tries to help the team but it's too late.

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