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"adcs are too op/hard to kill too many shields/heals/etc please nerf them"

Rexxiee··3 votes·846 views

(by the way this has been the case for a few months, but it has finally reached its peak with the multiple buffs to multiple support items across multiple recent patches)

Hmmm, adcs are hard to kill because item 3504 item 3190 item 3107 item 3109 item 3222 item 3401 item 3174 summoner 3 summoner 7 item 3046 item 3812 insert windspeakers icon here + Janna Lulu ThreshSona Nami Braum Ivern kits are too effective huh?

So adcs are the class that needs nerfs here, right? RIGHT? Literally the only thing here item wise adc related PD and DD (and ga to a smaller extent, but 30 armor alone doesnt make an adc tanky, its just the revive which is on a long CD and has been in the game for a long time and wasant a problem BEFORE riot overloded those supp items), and the only ad that uses DD is draven and hes overpowered regardless what he builds (he does the same thing with BT), and pd isnt that bad by itself but when coupled to the op support items giving you multiple hp bars you can see why it could get troublesome with the % damage reduction.

Hell im an adc main but i dont only play adc, i also play riven top (also play mid but that doesnt come to the case here), i like to duo with a friend of mine and he mains supp and just plays stuff like lulu to help/set me up and just dump everything on me, we can easily wipe out teams 2v5 simply because i cant be bursted through all of that, and no that is not riven being overpowered as that can be done with any melee slayer/carry (like yasuo or fiora or even master yi).

Oh yeah i forgot supports can literally never be overpowered, oops my bad its totally not supports having like 5 to 6 different broken items that allows them + their kits to make adcs too hard to kill, adcs that arent draven/lucian still die 1v1 to about any solo laner that isnt 0-10 even if they are ahead, go ahead try playing jinx and try team fighting without peel or 1v1ing someone, even late game.

If you want adcs to be more killable again then the support item needs nerfs across the board (along with GA and possibly PD), its just the truth (no being delusional here supp mains), i think their kits are mostly fine (other than thresh whos ridiculously overpowered atm and his stats clearly reflect that) but the items are just way too out of line, they just got buffed way past the "too much" point.

11 Comments

SEKAI3 votes

ADC are problem because Riot constantly makes changed that can all be conveniently catered to and abused by ADC in some way, whether it is the ADCs themselves or their lane buddies that they usually have, and doesn't get around fixing them.

Many of the problems can be easily fixed by simply adding more melee and ranged distinctions to items, especially those originally made for assassins and skirmishers, but Riot doesn't want that for some reason.

There are also some ADCs who are just fundamentally iffy, such as Twitch. A ranged and stealth carry with team-shred really just isn't healthy.

And speaking of GA, it's completely revamped so that it's now a #2 or 3 rush item for ADCs, as if high priority targets also need high priority treatments and clearly having risks and drawbacks is overrated, great.

............

If only Riot doesn't completely dominate the balance in that there HAS to be a ADC and "Supp" at bot lane. As long as they don't move away from this kind of nonsense balancing in the bot lane, ADC and some supp champs will never be balanced.

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

ADC are problem because Riot constantly makes changed that can all be conveniently catered to and abused by ADC in some way, whether it is the ADCs themselves or their lane buddies that they usually have, and doesn't get around fixing them.

Many of the problems can be easily fixed by simply adding more melee and ranged distinctions to items, especially those originally made for assassins and skirmishers, but Riot doesn't want that for some reason.

And speaking of GA, it's completely revamped so that it's now a #2 or 3 rush item for ADCs, great.

No adcs build ga before the 3rd item, unless you're playing in bronze.

40 ad by itself doesnt make adcs do tons of damage, they need IE + zeal item + lifesteal before thinking about building it (sure you could go as 3rd after IE + zeal item because supports can give you so much sustain but as you see the problem goes back to the supports, not the adcs).

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

No adcs build ga before the 3rd item, unless you're playing in bronze.

40 ad by itself doesnt make adcs do tons of damage, they need IE + zeal item + lifesteal before thinking about building it (sure you could go as 3rd after IE + zeal item because supports can give you so much sustain but as you see the problem goes back to the supports, not the adcs).

It is both.

I expanded it on my original post.

Basically, the problem is both in ADC and Supp because Riot is desperately trying to make this the "right comp" of bot lane. I focus more on ADCs because I feel the root of that notion ultimately lies in trying to make ADCs mandatory, just not to the full extent of the horrors of S3; they just strategically places some of that power into Supp now to try and mask that goal.

This is also why many comp or champs that isn't "ADC" or "Supp" have all been moved out of bot lane in one way or the other, with only a couple exceptions such as Morde who's only moved out of there because his new kit was just a complete mistake. Even then, his new kit was designed in a way that he was supposedly meant to be this "melee marksmen", and obviously it doesn't work (because marksmen is in such an elevated position above other classes by this point, a melee champ literally needs to be bat-shit OP or unfathomably frustrating to play against to combat them in lane; this same problem also made Yasuo's stupidly annoying kit, as he too was originally made for bot lane); but still you can see where Riot is going with this, they want bot = ADC+Supp.

And that's where the problem really is.

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

It is both.

I expanded it on my original post.

Basically, the problem is both in ADC and Supp because Riot is desperately trying to make this the "right comp" of bot lane. I focus more on ADCs because I feel the root of that notion ultimately lies in trying to make ADCs mandatory, just not to the full extent of the horrors of S3; they just strategically places some of that power into Supp now to try and mask that goal.

This is also why many comp or champs that isn't "ADC" or "Supp" have all been moved out of bot lane in one way or the other, with only a couple exceptions such as Morde who's only moved out of there because his new kit was just a complete mistake. Even then, his new kit was designed in a way that he was supposedly meant to be this "melee marksmen", and obviously it doesn't work (because marksmen is in such an elevated position above other classes by this point, a melee champ literally needs to be bat-shit OP or unfathomably frustrating to play against to combat them in lane; this same problem also made Yasuo's stupidly annoying kit, as he too was originally made for bot lane); but still you can see where Riot is going with this, they want bot = ADC+Supp.

And that's where the problem really is.

The thing is, Adcs and supports are by definition only viable bot lane for most part, so it is natural they are the main picks for the role, there really isnt any problem with that.

I dont want supports to cease to exist, or adcs (duh i play the role), but the balance atm has gone too poor due to the outcry of lower rated players about them having no impact on the game as adc/sup and riot has buffed and buffed them both 50000 times and of course it has reached the point of too much like 6 patches ago.

Yes adcs were trash a bit ago and they needed some of those buffs you cannot deny that but they went overboard with GA, ga was fine as as item and it was balanced, it did not need that change honestly but i still think the problems with adcs are far less than the problems with supports atm, supports really havent been weak been atleast 2 years but im not against new items, but creating locket + redemption was a huge mistake and instead of trying to balance the 2 items (or just remove them and replace with something more balanceable) they went ahead and buffed every support item to their level of ridiculousless, then ppl wonder why squishies suddenly are "tanks" with 3 hp bars that seeminly cant die.

So yeah im not asking for them to remove peel or supports from the game, but all of their items (atleast most of them) need a serious rebalance atm, along with GA and DD on the AD side (crit items are fine atm), and possibly PD, i just dont think PD is a good designed item.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, Adcs and supports are by definition only viable bot lane for most part, so it is natural they are the main picks for the role, there really isnt any problem with that.

No they aren't. It is so now because they've been balanced in that way for the past 5+ years if not more. But it isn't by 'definition'. There is no rule that dictate who should go where, we made those arbitrary rules, which is okay as every game has a meta (which may evolve and change over time), but in the case of League it is literally "this meta or gtfo" due to Riot's actively skewed balancing. Thankfully that only really happens in bot (comparatively speaking), but it is still incredibly unhealthy.

I dont want supports to cease to exist, or adcs (duh i play the role), but the balance atm has gone too poor due to the outcry of lower rated players about them having no impact on the game as adc/sup and riot has buffed and buffed them both 50000 times and of course it has reached the point of too much like 6 patches ago.

Yes adcs were trash a bit ago and they needed some of those buffs you cannot deny that but they went overboard with GA, ga was fine as as item and it was balanced, it did not need that change honestly but i still think the problems with adcs are far less than the problems with supports atm, supports really havent been weak been atleast 2 years but im not against new items, but creating locket + redemption was a huge mistake and instead of trying to balance the 2 items (or just remove them and replace with something more balanceable) they went ahead and buffed every support item to their level of ridiculousless, then ppl wonder why squishies suddenly are "tanks" with 3 hp bars that seeminly cant die.

So yeah im not asking for them to remove peel or supports from the game, but all of their items (atleast most of them) need a serious rebalance atm, along with GA and DD on the AD side (crit items are fine atm), and possibly PD, i just dont think PD is a good designed item.

I can get behind this, actually. Both ADC and Supp itemisations have some of those overloading and overtuning issues, true (since Riot is trying to make this combo the OTP of bot after all).

fuffychan2 votes

Its like melee players dont even realize how stupid they sound.

"ADCs are so OP, theyre the only class that gets a support to help them!"

Because theyre so useless on their own, they literally need another champion there to protect them from all the broken af tanks and bruisers in this game.

Im surprised this only has -2.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Its like melee players dont even realize how stupid they sound.

"ADCs are so OP, theyre the only class that gets a support to help them!"

Because theyre so useless on their own, they literally need another champion there to protect them from all the broken af tanks and bruisers in this game.

Im surprised this only has -2.

Idk, I think you missed OP's point a bit.

You also do realise ADCs can solo lane right? I mean you know that it's actually quite popular to send ADCs onto top lane where most of the bruisers and tanks are being played, for the sole purpose of bullying them right? The notion that ADCs actually need a babysitter is so 2012, it really isn't the case anymore; in fact it was never really the case, Support role was devised on the basis of helping ADCs to get to late-game with higher consistency, and not to make a somehow useless role functioning like some may be suggesting. Because if that is really the case, they wouldn't even appear in the meta, where only the fittest survive.

ADCs, and subsequently Supports, are overtuned atm. I am pretty sure no one is really disputing that at this stage, even OP who has an opinion believing that most of the problems lie with support, also acknowledge that ADCs also have overtuning issues of their own.

meowwow71 votes

ok they haven't changed item 3504 item 3222 or item 3109 they nerfed plain item 3107 without all the extra heal increase items and if you are going to post about item 3190 also post about it's synergy with item 3193

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

ok they haven't changed item 3504 item 3222 or item 3109 they nerfed plain item 3107 without all the extra heal increase items and if you are going to post about item 3190 also post about it's synergy with item 3193

They literally just gave huge buffs to both censer and knight vow (multiple patches of buffs for the last one), do you not read patch notes? Censer has been a god tier item been a couple of months, its on the same level as locket and redemption, and both locket and redemption are better now not worse, their values get absurd late game in trade for a small nerf early game.

The only item that i posted that isnt actually op is item 3222 but it does make adcs harder to kill so it serves the context of the thread.

meowwow71 votes

the only thing they buffed for knights is the cdr that i have seen and if you are using ardent you are mostly going to be a squishy enchanter or a stray taric so if they take out said healer/shielder they can take the team down quite easily and just think this didn't come up until buffs to dd ga getting some ad to it and adc's still building ninja tabi from the luladc2k17 stuff

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

the only thing they buffed for knights is the cdr that i have seen and if you are using ardent you are mostly going to be a squishy enchanter or a stray taric so if they take out said healer/shielder they can take the team down quite easily and just think this didn't come up until buffs to dd ga getting some ad to it and adc's still building ninja tabi from the luladc2k17 stuff

tabi is sitll too strong yes, but on every single class not just adcs, thats not a problem exclusive to adcs.

assassins build tabi, supports often build tabi aswell, adcs build tabi, bruisers build tabi, tanks bruild tabi, even mages build tabi, every class builds tabi atm.

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