@Riot, can we please revert that Talon buff on PBE and fix the following?

Wukong Airlines·Feb 6, 2018·28 votes·4,503 views

Shadow Assault (R) bonus AD ratio increased from 80% to 85% Damage increased from 90/135/180 to 90/165/240

Seriously? You think would be fixed by having +5 AD for every 100 AD + the base damage ?

Talon's problem is not his "R"!

Games are being decided by 10-15 minutes mark, but you're focusing on giving him an extra 60-90 AD tops?

This will definitely not help Talon at all, and I'm 100% sure this will be reverted for further testing.

So here's my suggestion:-

main issue, MAIN issue, is his W. its slow, easily dodged, and unsatisfying I would sacrifice the second W's 1 second slow for a 0.5 slow on his first W, and both Rakes "W" should deal the same amount of damage!
I mean, why does even the first part of his W deal less damage and DOESNT even slow? pre-rework Talon's W was fast, both parts of it dealt the same amount of damage and both parts slowed for 2 seconds!

You see how much power Talon lost after rework?

My second suggestion would be:

Allow Talon's Q crit to scaled with level. at all levels it deals 150% extra damage that is counted as a crit. Pre-rework Not only his Q worked as a AA reset ability that WAS so useful in split pushing, but it allowed you to apply 200% crit and could be enhanced with

Make it scale to 150% / 165% / 180% / 190% / 200% at it's 5 levels.

deserves more QoL buffs than numbers tbh. but those buffs would at least make his kit more interactive and easier to manage.

48 Comments

GGLineaRFeb 7, 201813 votes

I respectfully disagree. I don't think Talon needs buffs. I think all he really needs is the slow on his W to be at the start, and not the end.

Let me explain why by walking through his kit.

Talon's passive needs him to land three abilities, and then an auto. Then they bleed for 75 - 175 damage + 200% of your bonus AD over 2 seconds. He is an assassin. He is going to build full AD, with mabye an item 3031 . 3 abilities and an auto for that much damage is a bargain.

His Q while father than 170 units from the target is a targeted dash. It's got 110% ad on it for some reason, not counting the 65 - 165 base damage.

175 is Garen's Auto range, for reference.

His Q while closer than 170, in adition to dealing the same base damage, also has a free 150% crit damage, +50 with item 3031 , making it 200%, and 165% of his bonus AD on top of that. All for just being in range to autoattack.

And if you kill anything with it, you also get healed, and 50% of it's CD refunded.

His Q doesn't need buffs. It's already strong and versitile.

Talon's W deals 50 - 90 damage the first time, and 70 - 170 damage the second time, in addition to 40% and 60% of his bonus AD respectively.

The 0.75 second linger is there for counterplay, but the slow should be on the first pass, not the second.

Because If you just make it faster, there's no escaping it, and then Talon can just all in someone for very little effort, having the 1 second slow be on the start, rather than the end, makes the W easier to land, but still dodgable with a blink, dash, or flash.

His E is a passive parkour move.

Nothing of note, really, but if you sped up his W, he could hop a wall, W you, Q and auto you to kill you instantly unless you're a tank.

Just saying.

His ult is his ult. That buff was really worthless, but all it really is, is another source of damage.

TL;DR: Making Talon's W faster is a one way ticket to him spiking up to an 80% ban rate like when lethality was first released, because it'll make his combo and damage unavoidable, and effortless.

And if that happens, neither of us will be happy.

Just make his W's slow activate on the first pass, and not the second, then a good Talon can still deal all their damage, but it won't make it effortless. Keeping his play fluid, but his ban rate low.

SõnaFeb 7, 20182 votes

The ideas that op has mentioned are so broken and unreasonable. If Talon has changed as he wished, and became so broken as fearful one-shot killing machine, He won't be here anymore to discuss how to fix, and abuse the hell out of Talon. Talon has a fearful level2 power spike, and supposedly to be a snowballing assassin if he succeed in his lane.

SleepyŹoeFeb 7, 20183 votes

in the current meta where i have to deal with adc's instakilling everyone i would rather deal with a broken talon at this point

Velzard of KozFeb 7, 20181 votes

Yes, let's create powercreep, that's always fun.

Steel BlossomFeb 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I respectfully disagree. I don't think Talon needs buffs. I think all he really needs is the slow on his W to be at the start, and not the end.

Let me explain why by walking through his kit.

Talon's passive needs him to land three abilities, and then an auto. Then they bleed for 75 - 175 damage + 200% of your bonus AD over 2 seconds. He is an assassin. He is going to build full AD, with mabye an . 3 abilities and an auto for that much damage is a bargain.

His Q while father than 170 units from the target is a targeted dash. It's got 110% ad on it for some reason, not counting the 65 - 165 base damage.

175 is Garen's Auto range, for reference.

His Q while closer than 170, in adition to dealing the same base damage, also has a free 150% crit damage, +50 with , making it 200%, and 165% of his bonus AD on top of that. All for just being in range to autoattack.

And if you kill anything with it, you also get healed, and 50% of it's CD refunded.

His Q doesn't need buffs. It's already strong and versitile.

Talon's W deals 50 - 90 damage the first time, and 70 - 170 damage the second time, in addition to 40% and 60% of his bonus AD respectively.

The 0.75 second linger is there for counterplay, but the slow should be on the first pass, not the second.

Because If you just make it faster, there's no escaping it, and then Talon can just all in someone for very little effort, having the 1 second slow be on the start, rather than the end, makes the W easier to land, but still dodgable with a blink, dash, or flash.

His E is a passive parkour move.

Nothing of note, really, but if you sped up his W, he could hop a wall, W you, Q and auto you to kill you instantly unless you're a tank.

Just saying.

His ult is his ult. That buff was really worthless, but all it really is, is another source of damage.

TL;DR: Making Talon's W faster is a one way ticket to him spiking up to an 80% ban rate like when lethality was first released, because it'll make his combo and damage unavoidable, and effortless.

And if that happens, neither of us will be happy.

Just make his W's slow activate on the first pass, and not the second, then a good Talon can still deal all thier damage, but it won't make it effortless. Keeping his play fluid, but his ban rate low.

I wish all of you could get it through your heads that some things SHOULDN'T BE AVOIDABLE. There are champions you beat with rotations around the map, with vision, and with denying gold. That was why it took like three seasons of nerfing everyone else for old Talon to be worth anything, because winning the macro game is a legitimate counterplay. This isn't fucking Blade and Soul, not everything has to be about making mechanical outplays like Faker. This is a fucking strategy game, and counterplaying a champion with strategy should be promoted.

GGLineaRFeb 7, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Steel Blossom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I3Ep76oX,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2018-02-07T16:52:09.161+0000)

I wish all of you could get it through your heads that some things SHOULDN'T BE AVOIDABLE. There are champions you beat with rotations around the map, with vision, and with denying gold. That was why it took like three seasons of nerfing everyone else for old Talon to be worth anything, because winning the macro game is a legitimate counterplay. This isn't fucking Blade and Soul, not everything has to be about making mechanical outplays like Faker. This is a fucking strategy game, and counterplaying a champion with strategy should be promoted.

Having better macro isn't counterplay. That is just playing the game.

You said not everything has to be about mechanical outplays, then say counterplaying a champion should be promoted...?

People take Talon midlane when he's viable. If you are an assassin in the midlane, EVERYTHING YOU DO HAS TO HAVE COUNTERPLAY. Otherwise, you are overpowered, and will be nerfed into worthlessness by Riot.

If he was a jungle assassin, it'd be a different story. But unless you want Talon to be another Zoe you need to accept that dealing 410% of your AD with 0 counterplay is a problem.

Steel BlossomFeb 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Having better macro isn't counterplay. That is jsut playing the game.

You said not everything has to be about mechanical outplays, then say counterplaying a champion should be promoted...?

People take Talon midlane when he's viable. If you are an assassin in the midlane, EVERYTHING YOU DO HAS TO HAVE COUNTERPLAY. Otherwise, you are overpowered, and will be nerfed into worthlessness by Riot.

If he was a jungle assassin, it'd be a different story. But unless you want Talon to be another you need to accept that dealing 410% of your AD with 0 counterplay is a problem.

Do you have eyes? I assume you don't. Because you clearly couldn't read "counterplaying with strategy". And, no. So long as mages have point and click CC-- Annie Ryze Fiddlesticks Lissandra Malzahar --I will never accept that dealing my damage without you having a say is problematic. Like I said, it took YEARS of everyone else being nerfed for Talon to become remotely problematic. So, clearly, having mechanical answers is not a must for winning games against assassins.

GGLineaRFeb 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Steel Blossom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I3Ep76oX,comment-id=0007000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T18:25:42.500+0000)

Do you have eyes? I assume you don't. Because you clearly couldn't read "counterplaying with strategy". And, no. So long as mages have point and click CC-- --I will never accept that dealing my damage without you having a say is problematic. Like I said, it took YEARS of everyone else being nerfed for Talon to become remotely problematic. So, clearly, having mechanical answers is not a must for winning games against assassins.

Are you capable of responding without insulting someone with a different opinion?

There is no strategy in mindlessly pressing all your abilites and autoing someone for 410% of your AD. Or autoing people to death in a milisecond like what ADC's do. Or mindlessly tanking damage.

There really isn't a whole lot of strategy in League right now, other than "Can I oneshot this person, or should I go oneshot the other person?"

Annie needs a rework anyway, that's like if I used Tryndamere as an example as for why AS and crit stackers need nerfs.
Ryze is dogshit unless you're Diamond 3+, and then he's op beyond that. He still needs to be up your ass to do his whole rotation.
Fiddlesticks? Really? You're gonna bring him up to help your argument? LOL
Lissandra's ult hardly does anything to begin with unless she uses it on herself, and her W requires her to be RIGHT NEXT TO YOU. If you want to complain about her, you should be complaining about her get out of jail free card of an E.
For Malz, see Annie.

Just because Talon isn't a problem doesn't mean he deserves any buffs. If you buff him, HE WILL BE A PROBLEM.

I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this.

Talon's AD scaling on his passive and abilities are so high, that if you make him even slightly better, he will become a problem.

Point and click =/= mechanics, btw.

Steel BlossomFeb 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Are you capable of responding without insulting someone with a different opinion?

There is no strategy in mindlessly pressing all your abilites and autoing someone for 410% of your AD. Or autoing people to death in a milisecond like what ADC's do. Or mindlessly tanking damage.

There really isn't a whole lot of strategy in League right now, other than "Can I oneshot this person, or should I go oneshot the other person?"

Annie needs a rework anyway, that's like if I used Tryndamere as an example as for why AS and crit stackers need nerfs.

Ryze is dogshit unless you're Diamond 3+, and then he's op beyond that. He still needs to be up your ass to do his whole rotation.

Fiddlesticks? Really? You're gonna bring him up to help your argument? LOL

Lissandra's ult hardly does anything to begin with unless she uses it on herself, and her W requires her to be RIGHT NEXT TO YOU. If you want to complain about her, you should be complaining about her get out of jail free card of an E.

For Malz, see Annie.

Just because Talon isn't a problem doesn't mean he deserves any buffs. If you buff him, HE WILL BE A PROBLEM.

I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this.

Talon's AD scaling on his passive and abilities are so high, that if you make him even slightly better, he will become a problem.

Point and click =/= mechanics, btw.

First of all I gotta say that I meant that last reply to be a tsundere kind of angry...suffice to say that didn't work out, so just know that I'm not actually yelling at you lol. I've always known that I should stick to sounding like a text book, but it does become enticing to break from that once in a while, despite the regularly unpleasant results.

Regarding Talon--my point is not that any of the particular champions mentioned above is in need of balance changes, or that Talon himself is either too weak or too strong at the moment. My thought is much more general, the concept many people cannot bring themselves to understand--the fact that "mechanical counterplay" is not mandatory for any champion to have weakness. Perhaps it does become tiring and unpleasant to play against champions that cannot be beaten solely by micro, but that unpleasantry is FAR from game-breaking. Let me bring up again the fact that old Talon, with silence and with a 4000 gold core instead of the 6000-ish today, was not at all problematic until severe nerfs to every other competitive champion in the game. A champion who is linear and reliable in completing his task may very well be "antifun" and such, but I do not believe that such a champion has obtained unfair advantages by his linear nature.

GGLineaRFeb 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Steel Blossom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I3Ep76oX,comment-id=000700010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-08T06:01:18.649+0000)

First of all I gotta say that I meant that last reply to be a tsundere kind of angry...suffice to say that didn't work out, so just know that I'm not actually yelling at you lol. I've always known that I should stick to sounding like a text book, but it does become enticing to break from that once in a while, despite the regularly unpleasant results.

Regarding Talon--my point is not that any of the particular champions mentioned above is in need of balance changes, or that Talon himself is either too weak or too strong at the moment. My thought is much more general, the concept many people cannot bring themselves to understand--the fact that "mechanical counterplay" is not mandatory for any champion to have weakness. Perhaps it does become tiring and unpleasant to play against champions that cannot be beaten solely by micro, but that unpleasantry is FAR from game-breaking. Let me bring up again the fact that old Talon, with silence and with a 4000 gold core instead of the 6000-ish today, was not at all problematic until severe nerfs to every other competitive champion in the game. A champion who is linear and reliable in completing his task may very well be "antifun" and such, but I do not believe that such a champion has obtained unfair advantages by his linear nature.

It's next to impossible to tell when people are joking through text, I gave up on trying to spice up posts a while ago.

I only went on about the champs because you equated point and click CC, to dealing damage for free, with no counterplay, and used champs who are garbage ( Fiddlesticks )

Champs who need entire vgus anyway because they are so old and outdated. ( Annie , Malzahar ) Also, it's worth noting that these two are the only ones who could even equate to free damage, because their kit is so old it just DOES that.

And then champs who need to be so close to do it, that in itself is it's counterplay. ( Ryze , Lissandra )

I would agree with you normally, but even though Talon is an assassin, he is played in the midlane when he is played. Sometimes top.

Having undodgable, unavoidable, and unstoppable damage for free on ANYONE who is played in lane is NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME'S HEALTH.

This isn't just towards talon, but also the ADCs as a group, the Maokais, the Teemos, shit like that.

It doesn't NEED to be gamebreaking to be worth getting rid of. 410% of your AD with 3 abilities and an auto is not healthy for the game already, making that unavoidable is a stupid idea.

Look at Zed for example. A lot of his damage is avoidable, and a lot of it isn't, depending on your positioning. But he has to WORK for that damage. He has to outplay you to delete you.

Talon just has to hit you with his W, q and auto you, and you'll either die instantly, or take 90% of your health in damage and have to back while he gets to crash the wave into your tower, get free turret damage, roam, and then come back to lane, rinse and repeat.

Literally the only thing in his kit that is avoidable already is his W.

I'm not saying turn him into Ezreal, I'm not saying that everything needs mechanical counterplay, I'm saying that unless he receives nerfs to his AD ratios, he will not and should not ever recieve ANY qol changes or buffs.

Because so much of his kit already does his job for him.

Someone who has a kit who does all their work for them, Talon , Fizz , Yasuo , Katarina , Akali , Camille or someone who has a kit that is literally made to be annoying, Teemo , Gnar , Kennen , Jayce And someone who is just too fucking old, Annie , Pantheon , Jax , Malzahar , DrMundo

will NEVER be fun to fight. They will always be anti-fun.

And that's worse than being overpowered. Because someone who just prevents you from having fun isn't even worth a ban. You just have to deal with it.

You can disagree all you want, but it's a good thing Talon isn't meta with that 410% of bonus AD in a 1 second rotation, and 2 second bleed.

Steel BlossomFeb 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's next to impossible to tell when people are joking through text, I gave up on trying to spice up posts a while ago.

I only went on about the champs because you equated point and click CC, to dealing damage for free, with no counterplay, and used champs who are garbage ( )

Champs who need entire vgus anyway because they are so old and outdated. ( , ) Also, it's worth noting that these two are the only ones who could even equate to free damage, because their kit is so old it just DOES that.

And then champs who need to be so close to do it, that in itself is it's counterplay. ( , )

I would agree with you normally, but even though Talon is an assassin, he is played in the midlane when he is played. Sometimes top.

Having undodgable, unavoidable, and unstoppable damage for free on ANYONE who is played in lane is NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME'S HEALTH.

This isn't just towards talon, but also the ADCs as a group, the Maokais, the Teemos, shit like that.

It doesn't NEED to be gamebreaking to be worth getting rid of. 410% of your AD with 3 abilities and an auto is not healthy for the game already, making that unavoidable is a stupid idea.

Look at Zed for example. A lot of his damage is avoidable, and a lot of it isn't, depending on your positioning. But he has to WORK for that damage. He has to outplay you to delete you.

Talon just has to hit you with his W, q and auto you, and you'll either die instantly, or take 90% of your health in damage and have to back while he gets to crash the wave into your tower, get free turret damage, roam, and then come back to lane, rinse and repeat.

Literally the only thing in his kit that is avoidable already is his W.

I'm not saying turn him into Ezreal, I'm not saying that everything needs mechanical counterplay, I'm saying that unless he receives nerfs to his AD ratios, he will not and should not ever recieve ANY qol changes or buffs.

Because so much of his kit already does his job for him.

Someone who has a kit who does all their work for them, , , , , , or someone who has a kit that is literally made to be annoying, , , , And someone who is just too fucking old, , , , ,

will NEVER be fun to fight. They will always be anti-fun.

And that's worse than being overpowered. Because someone who just prevents you from having fun isn't even worth a ban. You just have to deal with it.

You can disagree all you want, but it's a good thing Talon isn't meta with that 410% of bonus AD in a 1 second rotation, and 2 second bleed.

It's all opinions at this point, but to me, "fun" should never be something that one considers when tuning a competitive game's balance. At least, it should not be put above actual balance. Everybody has a champion that they just cannot stand, for example Ahri Alistar Janna for me. To people who enjoy having any action happen in their games, these hard peel/insanely slippery champions are completely antifun. I have to work 3 times as hard for a fight to even break out, and even then the whole fight is more a game of tag than actual combat. These champions play in a way that's solely about surviving until the enemies kill themselves, and that's not enjoyable gameplay at all. Like, why even turn on your computer for a video game, if the game is just going to be 90% sitting around? We could just sit around without the computer, lol. Would even save a small bit of electricity that way.

However, none of what I just said means that any of them deserves actual nerfs, though. Just like how Talon's reliable damage is gated by the fact that he can't nearly as much distance as Zed's WWR, and how he isn't nearly as good at surviving. Again, not being fun to play against is not having an unfair advantage.

saltranFeb 7, 20182 votes

I don't care if everyone call us (adc mains) crybabies because it's half true at least.

But in other hand I swear that Assasins mains want Assasins to be unhealthy for everyone that's not another Assasin.

ReportermanMay 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't care if everyone call us (adc mains) crybabies because it's half true at least.

But in other hand I swear that Assasins mains want Assasins to be unhealthy for everyone that's not another Assasin.

its funny u still call talon an assassin with his (100 seconds combo) while zed can one shot an adc with W Q E and talon need to land everything to MAYBE KILL.... MAYBE kill an adc

Velzard of KozFeb 7, 20183 votes

Because If you just make it faster, there's no escaping it, and then Talon can just all in someone for very little effort, having the 1 second slow be on the start, rather than the end, makes the W easier to land, but still dodgable with a blink, dash, or flash.

Which means that he's uncounterable for immobile enemies without dash and they have absolutely no interaction with him other than "pray that you had chance of counterpicking him with something with universe-size range to never get him onto yourself". Mages have sometimes bigger delays on smaller areas and can work. They added the skill expression specifically because the point of W delay is that you have a chance of dodging it. If it slows the first time, the delay is pointless (except once every 5 minutes).

GGLineaRFeb 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I3Ep76oX,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2018-02-07T18:56:21.125+0000)

Which means that he's uncounterable for immobile enemies without dash and they have absolutely no interaction with him other than "pray that you had chance of counterpicking him with something with universe-size range to never get him onto yourself". Mages have sometimes bigger delays on smaller areas and can work. They added the skill expression specifically because the point of W delay is that you have a chance of dodging it. If it slows the first time, the delay is pointless (except once every 5 minutes).

I agree, but It's not worth pretending Talon isn't bad rn.

He really needs a brand new passive, Q and W, but Riot will probably just make the situation worse for everyone involved.

Evil YasuoFeb 7, 20186 votes

Riot we really need some rengar style treatment. He needs his burst speed in the game if the stopwatch is going to exist. I mean fuck, all this new ap items are already going to shove assassins out.

NineTailedMysticFeb 7, 20182 votes

no.

Evil YasuoFeb 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

no.

Get lost, rat.

NineTailedMysticFeb 7, 20182 votes

I don't understand your problem, bro.

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 7, 20186 votes

Talon's problem is not his "R"!

i agree

main issue, MAIN issue, is his W. its slow, easily dodged, and unsatisfying I would sacrifice the second W's 1 second slow for a 0.5 slow on his first W, and both Rakes "W" should deal the same amount of damage! I mean, why does even the first part of his W deal less damage and DOESNT even slow? pre-rework Talon's W was fast, both parts of it dealt the same amount of damage and both parts slowed for 2 seconds!

I disagree. Imo talon issue isn't from him. Its more related to other sh*t (stopwatch, shield...)

NamituFeb 7, 20185 votes

fix the e bug where you go back sometimes lul

no to toxicFeb 7, 20184 votes

Nah returning his W either requires that he only gets 1 stack from it. Otherwise he gets his old trade pattern of smashing his head against the keyboard when the enemy is in his E range

341123545652Feb 7, 201813 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I3Ep76oX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-07T00:04:41.534+0000)

Nah returning his W either requires that he only gets 1 stack from it. Otherwise he gets his old trade pattern of smashing his head against the keyboard when the enemy is in his E range

Wtf are you even talking about? do you know what talons E does after the rework lmfao?

Although im sure you know all about slamming heads on the keyboard as you main adc hypercarries and MF.

Velzard of KozFeb 7, 20183 votes

He means his old E. As in Talon had play pattern of smashing head into keyboard whenever enemy was in E range and he thinks this would re-introduce the play pattern, even without using the new E.

As in jump on enemy with Q, quickly rake them as fast as his old W and this gives all three stacks for Passive proc whenever you are in his Q range (as before in his E range), which means all he needs is you to step to his Q range to press QW AA in quick succession for big burst lacking skill expression.

Why does he think OP wants the same speed as old rake? I dunno. OP does mentoin it as just comparsion, I personally didn't get the feeling OP wanted the speed of old rake back, contrary, OP suggested how to make it more satisfying while keeping the current speed, but this is what he meant.

KennysDreamGirlFeb 7, 20181 votes

you got thee q mixed with the e

SpecterVonBarenFeb 7, 20184 votes

"I mean, why does even the first part of his W deal less damage and DOESNT even slow? pre-rework Talon's W was fast, both parts of it dealt the same amount of damage and both parts slowed for 2 seconds! "

Counterplay?

ViscâFeb 7, 20183 votes

I think Talons' problem is Q it has too short range riot should increase range like 600-650 also they should increase Q dash speed.W delay not big problem.He needs 350 Movement Speed again.Also Stopwatch should be able to use after 10min because 6min stopwatch stopping all assasins powerspike. (I prefer OLD TALON in this meta.Season 8 hard to kill somebody ADCs have thousands shields,stopwatches,ninjas tabi,powerfull items and runes they are like Range assasin.We have to back season 3 assasins we need blink on Talon or really fast Q dash).

General Esdeath Feb 7, 20183 votes

slow moving skills that "do 2x damage on return" as just noob traps unless it's in a teamfight or on a champ with CC.

MooooooooreDakkaFeb 7, 20183 votes

I don't think Talon needs more damage under optimum circumstances. What might be better would be making w delay scale down with level so he doesn't become too oppressive in lane but can be more reliable mid-late game. Also bugfixes and improvements to queueing up an auto after q or if they're feeling generous make his ranged q blink behind the target like his old e.

LeaphyDragonFeb 8, 20181 votes

I like that idea, his ranged q blinking behind them, and the W speed scaling.

Steel BlossomFeb 7, 20183 votes

Best way to fix Talon is to revert the rework. The game doesn't need yet another champion that can give the finger to walls. It needs reliable and instant damage to counter all the stupid strengths ADCs have amassed.

EinarUlfarFeb 7, 20182 votes

Why don't they tone down the overbearing champions and address any major issues with the game health instead of tacking on more damage?

AmazoXFeb 7, 20182 votes

#The buffs talon needs:

Talon deserves a slow on the first part of his Rake.
R should not be cancelled or reveal Talon when he uses his E after using R.

Those QoL buffs are the only buffs he needs, not MR or damage.

KanzlerFeb 7, 20182 votes

Personally, I never thought talon was weak.

On the other hand, I also thought zed was on the strong side, but he is getting buffs so apparently i know nothing.

LeaphyDragonFeb 8, 20181 votes

He (Talon) has been falling behind lately.

NevrankroatonFeb 7, 20181 votes

He gained 10 MR, which is massive already to have better trade in lane, and the biggest buff in his ult is having a whole 60 dmg (it is a big up) at lvl 16 and 30 dmg at lvl 11.

They want to avoid Talon to have too much damage early because he is the god of roaming and his damage is fine by itself. Rake deal enough damage as it is, and having it being reliable for slowing would mean he would proc his Q very easily, which mean his pattern would become very obnoxious.

Edit: Oh, it is cloud walker? It explain something.

DragonSheaFeb 7, 20181 votes

people don't realise that he also has 42 base MR. That is a shitload of MR for a assassin man, he has as much raw Magic resist as Kassadin at lv18

GGLineaRFeb 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

people don't realise that he also has 42 base MR. That is a shitload of MR for a assassin man, he has as much raw Magic resist as at lv18

Well, he is literally MADE to counter mages. He loses really hard to AD, and even some other mages.

DragonSheaFeb 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well, he is literally MADE to counter mages. He loses really hard to AD, and even some other mages.

That is because he doesn't have melee MR scaling as well as his passive discouraging anyong from getting items like item 3102 on him.

GGLineaRFeb 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is because he doesn't have melee MR scaling as well as his passive discouraging anyong from getting items like on him.

I just thought it was worth defending Kass anyway. He's old and needs a vgu.

He's really good against a few people, but he's really "meh" right now.

ReportermanMay 10, 20181 votes

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people don't realise that he also has 42 base MR. That is a shitload of MR for a assassin man, he has as much raw Magic resist as at lv18

whats the point of MR if u keep taking dmg without doing dmg back.... its not useful not at all...if the dude cant even jump on someone without getting his *** raped by a full combo from somone because of his Stupid Q range/speed

T ºKP BillyFeb 7, 20181 votes

better reverse what damages each w deals. his first w should deal the more damage and his second w should slow and deal less. bcs as he is now, he cant even poke with his w. it deals no dmg, no slow, high cd, high mana, and u cant hit your 2nd w anyways to even try to go in and make a trade/combo.

LeaphyDragonFeb 8, 20181 votes

Having his ult damage scale better is actually pretty good if you can find ways to land his W than don't play him [slayer-jinx-unamused] . My point is: Get creative! Be smart. Don't throw out your W and expect it to land right away If you want to make it hard to dodge then Q, W so they almost always get hit by his W, and with the slow just walk up to them and auto to proc his passive. [galio-happy]

Right now I think the Ult buff is great, especially if you can prock it on an enemy champ.

Buffs I would suggest is when you use the ranged Q I blinks behind them like his old E, and have his W speed scale. [sg-jinx]

ReportermanMay 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Having his ult damage scale better is actually pretty good if you can find ways to land his W than don't play him [slayer-jinx-unamused] . My point is: Get creative! Be smart. Don't throw out your W and expect it to land right away If you want to make it hard to dodge then Q, W so they almost always get hit by his W, and with the slow just walk up to them and auto to proc his passive. [galio-happy]

Right now I think the Ult buff is great, especially if you can prock it on an enemy champ.

Buffs I would suggest is when you use the ranged Q I blinks behind them like his old E, and have his W speed scale. [sg-jinx]

man i got creative, i played him many different ways u can imagine,1 played him as a fighter on top lane which was good until the armor nerf(notice hes an assassin and i played him like that because he was more efficient), 2 played him full lethality which was the worse because if u mss one spell u are useless and it doesn't work in team fights since everyone now has both speed/dash/heal/armor, 3 full burst, high speed, full cdr but less dmg (trinity,duskblade,yummi,mobility boots,infinity and static she) which is the best one currently but weakest vs AD assasins on lane that's why i play him top always with the third build.... still i woundlt call that an assassin because this build yes it makes the highest burst but doesn't kill someone like kai sa without the guy playing her is not predicting ur attack.

dune32Feb 10, 20181 votes

I as a talon main 160k mastery points. I will agree you are buffing the wrong part of talon. Talons ultimate was never under powered. I however see other problems 1 he can not take towers even after killing his laner multiple times he is just to slow to push, if you look at my match history it will clearly show it's not about me not wanting to push but rather his auto's being to slow with even when fed! This used to not be a problem given ghost blades old passive. His w cost to much Mana. I am always running out of manna against AP match ups after first back even if ahead in farm and a kill up because they naturally have AP built into their build paths where as talon Mana hungry has to be super careful casting to many W's so champs like malz, ziggs, Ori,tf, Tali, ekko, garen,Cho,Yorick,any tank can just push talon out of lane even if they lost lane makes it almost miserable to play against. I hope to see these buff reversed and an auto speed update. I also would like to see talon a little healthier as levels progress maybe a small buff of like 50+ per level after level for better sustain mid 8-18 levels where he falls off the hardest. I don't want damage I just wanna be able to take some towers after going 17/1 :(

R3dRidingH0odFeb 15, 20181 votes

I played Talon quite a lot and TBH, he doesnt do his job as well as other assassins. The reason why Talon doesnt do his job well is because of his abilities. Think about it, landing 3 ability and an auto-attack as a finisher is quite a lot to do because missing one of these means you fail to assassinate your target since Talon REALLY rely on his PASSIVE. If you do not use your passive as Talon then the enemy carry has a 85% chance of still being alive. It just that there a few thing wrong with Talon that even the pros like Faker have a hard time with and the number one reason is because of his passive.

Passive is pretty much useless without ult. Cant do much with just W and Q and since W is easy predictably/avoided, your just left with 2 marking on your target in most case.

I just want them to speed up the second wave for W so Talon can use his passive, and to balance it just increase Talon passive Cooldown to 10-15 sec. Also, buff W damage would be great or am I the only one that find Talon damage for his W peanut damage? Hmmm, might be because I never landed the second wave of W since it's easily dodged. Eh, forget the damage! I just want my W speed back more.