https://clips.twitch.tv/HungryBigPuppyLeeroyJenkins
I really don't, it makes just zero sense for a champion like Sona to keep its toxic mechanics for 8 years straight just because Riot want no hands players to have a champion to play.
5or6stores4 votesDisagree, but even so, this game has SO many champions that require no mechanical skill it doesn't even matter.
Are 
better than 
? Lulu and Janna both have actual Q skillshots, and Lulu has actual decision making with her abilities, unlike a champ like Jax, who's just going to jump on you and spam his abilties.
While I'm not a huge fan on Sona, the counterplay to her is that she's so squishy and has no real peel until 6. If you get on her, land a hook on her, etc, she's dead. Same goes for her adc.
D357R0Y3R1 votesand are those champions an example of design to follow?
hell the fuck no, who likes here to fight Jax toplane?
nobody
do you think an adc main enjoys to play against Core Sona? It's not even Sona taric at this point ITS SONA ALONE being a garbage outdated design while taric got his rework, pros are picking her without taric now.
but the boards don't say anything why? because "diversity lol"
Critmaster Garen3 votesi wouldnt generalize but some specific abilities are just fucking stupid.
polymorph and r. like how do you ever play around that?
w aswell. id question her q aswell, since a point blank q to interrupt is almost always guaranteed with the instant cast and the large hitbox. her whole kit has very little room for error. misusing her ult, and her e is almost impossible.
one of the best enchanters design wise in the game is 
imo. all of her abilities kindof feel like you can play around them while they have a big impact when used correctly.
if i pick 
and im up against a nami, it really feels like a question of: can i outplay her abilities or can she outplay me?
while with lulu or janna, its like. ok, i guess im not participating in teamfights. good luck boys.
Boltonator1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-15T18:05:03.257+0000)
i wouldnt generalize but some specific abilities are just fucking stupid.
one of the best enchanters design wise in the game is
if i pick
while with lulu or janna, its like. ok, i guess im not participating in teamfights.
Lulu’s W is on a lengthy cooldown early, plus she can only use it to boost her ally or cc enemy. It had a short duration early and I tend to max her Q first for maximum poke.
Janna has insanely high mana costs for her Q early, plus she has to charge it to gain the full benefit of the tornado. You can usually tell when she’s casting it because she’ll briefly go into the brush to hide it if it isn’t warded. Her E scaling has been nerfed numerous times plus the shield decays so you just wait until it expires on its own, or take it out with a single auto attack if you’re the adc. Her R isn’t as easy to position as you may think and, if she channels the entire duration, leaves her most vulnerable.
The fact that you think Nami is less oppressive than Lulu or Janna tells me you haven’t ever faced a competent Nami main. Yes, there is counterplay to Nami but she has many more methods to peel for her ADC than either Lulu or Janna, has hard CC on a much shorter cooldown than Lulu’s and isn’t telegraphed as loudly as Janna’s.
Critmaster Garen2 votesshe can only use it to boost her ally or cc enemy.
like thats even a choice. you usually only need to sit on it to cc whoever outpositioned you.
you can sit here and argue about cooldowns and whatever you want, but their kits are still extremely reliable to the point where you cant play around some of their high impact abilities and they can just shut certain champions out of a fight for free.
Boltonator2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T18:35:45.513+0000)
like thats even a choice. you usually only need to sit on it to cc whoever outpositioned you.
you can sit here and argue about cooldowns and whatever you want, but their kits are still extremely reliable to the point where you cant play around some of their high impact abilities and they can just shut certain champions out of a fight for free.
Actually it is a rather BIG choice. CC an enemy or boost my ally. I can’t do both. I feel I boost my ally I have no cc if a gank is coming. If I CC an enemy I risk having my adc miss out on a kill because they aren’t able to pursue a low-health enemy. What about if I need to use it to speed my ally away from danger? Myself from danger? Who do I cc? The adc closing in or the jungle gank coming from the river or tribush? You may think it’s easy playing Lulu but when push comes to shove ever decision she makes must be the right one. She sacrifices one benefit for the benefit of the other.
Beerstein1 votesDoesn't matter. Better JG wins.
The thigh guy1 votesI mean. Assassins have no counterplay either sooooo.
Polaris I2 votesNobody: Mages exist:
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Polaris I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-15T18:01:14.309+0000)
Nobody: Mages exist:
Atleast most mage shit is actually dodgeable.
Polaris I1 votesLaughs in Syndra
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Polaris I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T19:18:40.319+0000)
Laughs in Syndra
And pray tell. How is syndra’s viability looking? Here I’ll do the leg work for you
Play rate 1.28% fair to say mostly played by her mains.
Win rate. 47.06%. One of the lowest winrates in mid. Placed 38/42 actually.
Polaris I1 votesI don’t care about stats, she’s fun to play and tilts the enemy when I miss everything i can
PimpStickNasus1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T18:33:46.490+0000)
Atleast most mage shit is actually dodgeable.
The number one thing i see you complain about day in and day out is Zed who’s entirely dodgeable
The thigh guy1 votesThe number one thing i see you complain about day in and day out is Zed who’s entirely dodgeable
Oh yeah. His r-e-auto-ignite isn’t dodgeable without flash. Totally fair and counterable gameplay right there.
D357R0Y3R2 votesyea
do you see assassins picked in LCK? don't think so
when a piece of shit of design like Sona is picked in pro constantly, and giving enemies no chance to survive while they're the best in the game I think it should ring a fucking alaram
The thigh guy2 votesyea
do you see assassins picked in LCK? don't think so
when a piece of shit of design like Sona is picked in pro constantly, and giving enemies no chance to survive while they're the best in the game I think it should ring a fucking alaram
Pro play is not the same as average play. They are playing a COMPLETELY different game.
I am not a pro. You are not a pro No one on these boards is a pro Pro play is irrelevant.
D357R0Y3R1 votesPro play is irrelevant.
how is it irrelevant? if they're the best players in the world and they can't deal with Sona HOW THE FUCK IS IT IRRELEVANT?
The thigh guy2 voteshow is it irrelevant? if they're the best players in the world and they can't deal with Sona HOW THE FUCK IS IT IRRELEVANT?
Because. They are playing her to near perfect degrees. Are you saying you are playing against sona players who are playing near PERFECTLY?
D357R0Y3R2 votesYe, the sona mechanics ARE DAMN strong indeed
Are you saying you are playing against sona players who are playing near PERFECTLY?
this champion is made for trash people, you don't have to do anything near perfection, she has 54% win rate which is one of the highest in the game, requieres no skill to poke, and DOESNT EVEN FARM while stacking gold with klepto and support item. Then you have to deal with an assassin that has team wide utility
this really is the example of a good balanced champion
The thigh guy2 votesYe, the sona mechanics ARE DAMN strong indeed
this champion is made for trash people, you don't have to do anything near perfection, she has 54% win rate which is one of the highest in the game, requieres no skill to poke, and DOESNT EVEN FARM while stacking gold with klepto and support item. Then you have to deal with an assassin that has team wide utility
this really is the example of a good balanced champion
She has a 53% winrate with a 4% pick rate. Maybe if she was had a higher actual pick rate she might be overpowered but no. It’s people who actually play her inflating her.
And okay. By the logic you’ve just put down. Garen is op by default because he is stupid easy and has a decent winrate.
Every champion who is “easy” is op. Because you can’t figure out how to outplay them.
D357R0Y3R1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T19:51:37.768+0000)
She has a 53% winrate with a 4% pick rate. Maybe if she was had a higher actual pick rate she might be overpowered but no. It’s people who actually play her inflating her.
https://u.gg/lol/champions/sona/build she actually has 53% win rate and 6% pick rate let's take those stats, but if you think that 6% pick rate is not a large sample then no need to argue further
And okay. By the logic you’ve just put down. Garen is op by default because he is stupid easy and has a decent winrate.
Garen doesn't give troubles to the best players in the game Garen doesn't have 54% win rate Garen is shit
and if Garen was ever allowed to dominate the best playerrs in the game he would be instantly hammered because of the lack of counterplay he has
The thigh guy2 voteshttps://u.gg/lol/champions/sona/build she actually has 53% win rate and 6% pick rate let's take those stats, but if you think that 6% pick rate is not a large sample then no need to argue further
Garen doesn't give troubles to the best players in the game Garen doesn't have 54% win rate Garen is shit
and if Garen was ever allowed to dominate the best playerrs in the game he would be instantly hammered because of the lack of counterplay he has
Garen has a 53.25% winrate. :/ he’s the 7th highest winrate.
D357R0Y3R1 voteshttps://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/build
ye ye ok dude
The thigh guy2 voteshttps://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/build
ye ye ok dude
https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/
But im sure you’ll just say “not my source so it doesn’t count” while you fish for stats that match what you want to push.
The thigh guy2 votesYe, the sona mechanics ARE DAMN strong indeed
this champion is made for trash people, you don't have to do anything near perfection, she has 54% win rate which is one of the highest in the game, requieres no skill to poke, and DOESNT EVEN FARM while stacking gold with klepto and support item. Then you have to deal with an assassin that has team wide utility
this really is the example of a good balanced champion
Her win rate is 53%. With a 4% pick rate.
So the logic you are laying down. Every easy champion is op.
Going by what you’ve just stated. Volibear is overpowered.
Garen. Is overpowered
Zilean. Is overpowered.
Fucking Annie. Annie. ANNIE is overpowered if we use the metric that you’ve just layed out.
spicymonki1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyFiPN5z,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T19:40:39.664+0000)
Because. They are playing her to near perfect degrees. Are you saying you are playing against sona players who are playing near PERFECTLY?
Okay Mr. Smartass, do you know why League is popular and relevant all over the world? It's not because of the biweekly patch cycles, nor the fan service champs. It's from people watching pros play at their best vs teams from different regions of the world. It's a legitimate sport, like football, baseball, or soccer. If Riot didn't cater to the people who are the best at what they do, which certainly isn't you, then the game would've turned dogshit years ago. Hell, why do you think Akali was nerfed AGAIN? It's because she has a steep learning curve with a high skill cap. Do you know who can master Akali? The pros. Do you know why they nerf Shen? It's because normie idiots don't know game-sense and teamplay enough to use his ult properly. Do you know who can play Shen well? The pros. I can't seem to make it any more simple for you than that. You want to feature broke-ass champs then have pros abuse them in a competitive scene? Good luck with a dead game, because you just ruined League.
The thigh guy2 votesOkay Mr. Smartass, do you know why League is popular and relevant all over the world? It's not because of the biweekly patch cycles, nor the fan service champs. It's from people watching pros play at their best vs teams from different regions of the world. It's a legitimate sport, like football, baseball, or soccer. If Riot didn't cater to the people who are the best at what they do, which certainly isn't you, then the game would've turned dogshit years ago. Hell, why do you think Akali was nerfed AGAIN? It's because she has a steep learning curve with a high skill cap. Do you know who can master Akali? The pros. Do you know why they nerf Shen? It's because normie idiots don't know game-sense and teamplay enough to use his ult properly. Do you know who can play Shen well? The pros. I can't seem to make it any more simple for you than that. You want to feature broke-ass champs then have pros abuse them in a competitive scene? Good luck with a dead game, because you just ruined League.
Nice b8 m8
I love how salty you people get when you’re told you aren’t a fucking pro.
Boltonator1 voteshow is it irrelevant? if they're the best players in the world and they can't deal with Sona HOW THE FUCK IS IT IRRELEVANT?
It is irrelevant because there’s always going to be a pool of champions the pros pick, regardless of appearances or kit difficulty. Professional players always pick champions that give them the best chances at winning, banning champions who counter their playstyle. Many champions end up getting nerfed due to seeing professional play. Sona has been nerfed more than any other support and is one of the easiest champions to gank pre-level 6. If your jungler isn’t trying to constantly go botlane when the enemy team has a Sona Support then that’s having a poor jungler.
D357R0Y3R1 votesI can't fucking control my jungler
Meanwhile in pro they can, and even while they're coordinated Sona is the 3rd most picked adc and has 69 fucking % win rate when those people are the strongest in the world, and still have no idea how to deal with Sona
Boltonator1 votesI can't fucking control my jungler
Meanwhile in pro they can, and even while they're coordinated Sona is the 3rd most picked adc and has 69 fucking % win rate when those people are the strongest in the world, and still have no idea how to deal with Sona
Then either ban her in select or learn how to counter her. I see your reasoning and only see someone too lazy to learn her and, at the same time, lacking the intelligence to ban a champion they struggle against.
spicymonki1 votesYour argument makes it sound like only 1 champion can be a direct counter to another which isn't realistic. Take the time to see different arguments and maybe you'll gain some respectability from him.
TyrekGoldenspear1 votesI don't think he wants respectability from him, js.
Boltonator1 votesI don't think he wants respectability from him, js.
Correct. I was simply stating my honest opinion on the matter. I guess I went out of line though, since my post was removed. [sg-lulu]
TyrekGoldenspear1 votesYour core thesis is wrong, enchanters absolutely have counterplay. It's called heavy engage and burst.
Supports like Leo and Thresh love enchanters because they're easy to bully in lane and if they make one mistake they're dead in seconds.
Maybe the game's changed in the last few months since I played seriously but I'm going to assume this still works.
Daedric Etwahl1 votesSona
No counterplay
Oh, you poor, poor child...