Sona, a long series of nerfs for "balance"

only zhule··20 votes·1,300 views

So took the patch note changes on Sona from about when her rework took place, V4.13 up till now. Just encase anyone who doesn't understand why Sona mains complain about her current power level.

V5.5: Power Chord No longer consumed on hitting blue trinket ward or Kalista's Sentinel. Crescendo Cost reduced to 100 at all ranks from 100 / 150 / 200. V5.1:

Stats Movement speed reduced to 325 from 330. Power Chord Hymn of Valor's Staccato damage reduced to 40% from 50%.

V4.21:

Hymn of Valor Should no longer cause game lag on first cast. V4.20:

Hymn of Valor On-hit damage AP ratio reduced to 20% from 25%. Aria of Perseverance Base heal increased to 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 from 25 / 45 / 65 / 85 / 105. Heal modifier per % missing health reduced to 0.5% from 1%. Mana cost increased to 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100 from 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90. V4.17:

Hymn of Valor Fixed a bug where the damage range was 700 instead of the intended 850. V4.13:

General Visual update. Aura radius on each of Sona's abilities reduced to 350 from 1000. Aura duration changed to 3 seconds from indefinite, but increases by 0.5 seconds each time she tags an ally. Texture upgrade to all skins and a texture upgrade to her hair and weapon. Stats Base armor increased to 15 from 12. Base health lowered to 353 from 380. Health per level increased to 77 from 70. Power Chord Hymn of Valor bonus damage reduced to 50% from 100%. Hymn of Valor Active base damage reduced to 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 from 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250. REVISED AURA: Sona and allies touched by the aura will deal 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+ 25% AP) bonus magic damage on their next auto attack within the next 5 seconds. Cooldown increased to 8 seconds from 7. Aria of Perseverance Heal reduced at early ranks to 25 / 45 / 65 / 85 / 105 (+ 20% AP) from 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 (+ 25% AP). Heal is now modified by 1% for each 1% of the target's missing health. NEW AURA: Sona and allies touched by the aura gain a shield that mitigates the next 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 (+ 20% AP) damage for up to 1.5 seconds. Mana cost increased to 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90 from 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80. Cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 7. Song of Celerity REVISED ACTIVE: Sona gains 13 / 14 / 15 / 16 / 17% (+ 7.5% per 100 AP) bonus movement speed. The bonus decays down to the aura bonus over 3 seconds. NEW AURA: Allies touched by the aura gain 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 / 14% (+ 3.5% per 100 AP) bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds. Cooldown increased to 12 seconds from 7. Crescendo NEW PASSIVE: Ranking up Crescendo increases the strength of Sona's auras and Song of Celerity's self buff. Hymn of Valor: + 10 / 20 / 40 extra on-hit magic damage. Aria of Perseverence: + 10 / 20 / 40 extra shield. Song of Celerity: + 2 / 4 / 6% bonus movement speed. Animation updated to clarify that it's a skill shot. Animation updated to clarify the area of the effect.

I know it's been quite a while since the rework, but i honestly want people to look at this and understand why Sona players feel so cheated. Look at the changes in her damage, look at the changes in her ability to heal, heck look at how they managed to make her movement speed buff feel even more of a wasted skill. But most of all look at the changes to her mana costs and the how all her abilities had extra time thrown onto them. All this with out any real bonus for utilizing the way the kit now works.

I look at these changes and it's basically just one nerf after another. The only thing that i see as even remotely buff like is that her ultimate now costs less at higher levels. Since the rework she is now slower, all her spells are on longer cooldowns, her heal (and maybe all of the spells) costs more, her passive's damage output has been cut by 60% (assuming you are using her Q), she lost 650 range on her auras, her one attack spell has lower base damage.

48 Comments

BeatRushVII14 votes

Shes currently balanced around 4 people being near her, and only excels when that condition is met ANd people understand how to play with her. I love sona, but its just easier and more beneficial for climbing to pick nami or janna as things stand

only zhule9 votes

{quoted}

Shes currently balanced around 4 people being near her, and only excels when that condition is met ANd people understand how to play with her. I love sona, but its just easier and more beneficial for climbing to pick nami or janna as things stand

This is basically the problem. A champion designed to need 3-4 allies around to unlock their potential is a horrible idea. You shouldn't need to spend over half the game being weak, just so you can be a bit above average once the game shifts a little more to death ball fights.

Zone of Endless11 votes

Sona is a generalist and Riot doesn't like generalist that doesn't do flashy plays

Aeolian Melodies3 votes

{quoted}

Sona is a generalist and Riot doesn't like generalist that doesn't do flashy plays

Nami

Cindikle2 votes

Q and R require landing. Q isn't hard to land, but isn't easy.

E is limited to AA's

W's first hit is weak for a very high mana cost. If you don't at least get one bounce it's harsh to use.

Everything Sona does outside of her near-instant R is automatic, targeted and/or AoE.

Her problem isn't that she's too much of a generalist, it's that her kit is auto-drive. It's why her kit got changed so much to make it so she had to be more involved with her aura's.

On top of that she overall gives all the buffs.

  • AA enhancer
  • Shield
  • Heal
  • MS
  • Damage reduction(on enemy)
  • Slow
  • Even has burst when built for it on top of all of this.

I think her passive should change to be the aura source. Using 2 spells causes the 3rd to apply an aura.

Q's damage and W's heal can be increased. Either overall or per rank depending on balance. E can grant a short speed boost to nearby allies.

Q's aura grants the current effect, but Sona gain the ability to apply the damage equal to the number of allies she buffs with it. W turns into a heal over time to nearby allies, overhealing turns into a shield(like Bloodthirster). E turns into it's current effect but a slightly longer duration.

Using R automatically resets her passive to apply an aura next cast. Possibly applying bonus effects based on ult rank (Q = 1-3 extra starting stacks for her personal damage, W = 3/6/10% damage reduction to those inside, E = Slow field, cannot dash into the slowfield).

If they could balance this it'd make her require a lot more thought into her auras. Getting a 4 man Q aura could bring her a lot of damage. While a W could save her team. E for mini-Sivir ult.

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

Q and R require landing. Q isn't hard to land, but isn't easy.

E is limited to AA's

W's first hit is weak for a very high mana cost. If you don't at least get one bounce it's harsh to use.

Everything Sona does outside of her near-instant R is automatic, targeted and/or AoE.

Her problem isn't that she's too much of a generalist, it's that her kit is auto-drive. It's why her kit got changed so much to make it so she had to be more involved with her aura's.

On top of that she overall gives all the buffs.

  • AA enhancer
  • Shield
  • Heal
  • MS
  • Damage reduction(on enemy)
  • Slow
  • Even has burst when built for it on top of all of this.

I think her passive should change to be the aura source. Using 2 spells causes the 3rd to apply an aura.

Q's damage and W's heal can be increased. Either overall or per rank depending on balance. E can grant a short speed boost to nearby allies.

Q's aura grants the current effect, but Sona gain the ability to apply the damage equal to the number of allies she buffs with it. W turns into a heal over time to nearby allies, overhealing turns into a shield(like Bloodthirster). E turns into it's current effect but a slightly longer duration.

Using R automatically resets her passive to apply an aura next cast. Possibly applying bonus effects based on ult rank (Q = 1-3 extra starting stacks for her personal damage, W = 3/6/10% damage reduction to those inside, E = Slow field, cannot dash into the slowfield).

If they could balance this it'd make her require a lot more thought into her auras. Getting a 4 man Q aura could bring her a lot of damage. While a W could save her team. E for mini-Sivir ult.

I feel the need to pull this arguement apart a bit. I would love it if she was built to really use and abuse her aura's but she's not. Imagine old sona with her current aura range and timers. Basically a champion who gives 2-4 second windows in which your team is "stronger" then your opponents.

Her buffs are kind of a joke when you compare them to someone like Nami. -AA enhancer: Sona gets a one time use per ally buff it does nothing more then add some magic damage. Nami gives one ally a 3 AA buff that has a lower base but a higher over all damage output in addition her AA buff gives a slow after each hit.

  • Shield: This would be amazing if it didn't fall off so fast. In team fights it's ok i guess but outside of that it rarely stays on long enough to actually block damage. Other characters with a shield effect usually also have a secondary effect to their shield like Janna's AD bonus.

-Healing: This would be amazing if the base value wasn't super lower and it didn't scale so poorly. Having 400 AP only boost your heal by 80 feels pretty unimpressive when you are trying to keep an ally alive.

-Movement speed: Again let's compare this to Nami. I have to spend mana and use up a skill slot for the ability to grant a 10-14% movement bonus for 1 second to my allies. They also have to be close to be to receive this bonus. Nami get's to give her ally a movement speed buff paired with either a heal or a damage modifier.

  • Damage reduction on enemies: This sounds great but is often super hard to pull off in a way that effects the game flow. First you need to have your passive ready, and then make sure the last spell you cast was your heal. Then you need to get within auto attack range on an enemy and hit them. After doing all that you need your allies to really pour on the damage in the 1-2 seconds your target has a mildly reduced damage output.

-Slow: Again on paper this seems great, but then you notice that it means you have to use up your passive and the slow doesn't last long enough to make any really big plays. If they have a escape mechanic they are getting away even if you slow them. If your allies aren't already breathing down the targets neck the slow wont be enough to let them catch up most of the time.

-Burst: This is kind of a false issue. Build like an AP carry on any champion with some AP scaling offensive skills and you have some serious burst. Take Nami for example if you had 400+ AP and a lich bane your going to hit like a truck. Sona just gets singled out because she has to build lots of AP for her kit to be useful.

Cindikle2 votes

-AA enhancer: Sona gets a one time use per ally buff it does nothing more then add some magic damage. Nami gives one ally a 3 AA buff that has a lower base but a higher over all damage output in addition her AA buff gives a slow after each hit.

This buff would make every time she gives the buff to an ally, she gets it too. Overall this will generate more damage than Nami. An overall means she gets 2 hits even if it's just in the bot lane. On top of Q doing damage itself.

  • Shield: This would be amazing if it didn't fall off so fast. In team fights it's ok i guess but outside of that it rarely stays on long enough to actually block damage. Other characters with a shield effect usually also have a secondary effect to their shield like Janna's AD bonus.

Partly why I'd like to see it turned into mini-Janna ult that moves. It wont be as strong. And the shield is just kind of a bonus.

-Healing: This would be amazing if the base value wasn't super lower and it didn't scale so poorly. Having 400 AP only boost your heal by 80 feels pretty unimpressive when you are trying to keep an ally alive.

No one complained about her heal before it got nerfed/changed. It wasn't hit very hard at all. Overall it was even buffed as long as you're not healing max HP people.

-Movement speed: Again let's compare this to Nami. I have to spend mana and use up a skill slot for the ability to grant a 10-14% movement bonus for 1 second to my allies. They also have to be close to be to receive this bonus. Nami get's to give her ally a movement speed buff paired with either a heal or a damage modifier.

You're forgetting her R, which gives 2-6% more. On top of the AP scaling. Later in the game this becomes one of, if not the, best support mobility effect.

  • Damage reduction on enemies: This sounds great but is often super hard to pull off in a way that effects the game flow. First you need to have your passive ready, and then make sure the last spell you cast was your heal. Then you need to get within auto attack range on an enemy and hit them. After doing all that you need your allies to really pour on the damage in the 1-2 seconds your target has a mildly reduced damage output.

A reason I like my idea. Instead of dealing with the enemy, you deal with it as a zone.

-Slow: Again on paper this seems great, but then you notice that it means you have to use up your passive and the slow doesn't last long enough to make any really big plays. If they have a escape mechanic they are getting away even if you slow them. If your allies aren't already breathing down the targets neck the slow wont be enough to let them catch up most of the time.

It's an effective enough slow considering the power her MS buff gets after a while. But I agree, to me it's her weaker passive use of the 3.

-Burst: This is kind of a false issue. Build like an AP carry on any champion with some AP scaling offensive skills and you have some serious burst. Take Nami for example if you had 400+ AP and a lich bane your going to hit like a truck. Sona just gets singled out because she has to build lots of AP for her kit to be useful.

It has more to do with Ludens as well. Nami built AP can be powerful. But Sona can do it her whole burst with just Qaa. Nami requires delays in cast times and landing of abilities. Nami to me has never really felt like she has "burst". Because of this.

only zhule1 votes

no one complained about the heal before the change because it was 10-20 mana less per cast (there is a moment where they bumped it from 60 to 70) also that lovely bonus 1% heal for each 1% your targets are missing, really did a lot to make your heals feel worthwhile. I would say that change they made was a nerf not a buff. +5 base healing does not equal a 50% loss in the passive aspect of the skill.

Aeolian Melodies4 votes

{quoted}

Q and R require landing. Q isn't hard to land, but isn't easy.

E is limited to AA's

W's first hit is weak for a very high mana cost. If you don't at least get one bounce it's harsh to use.

Everything Sona does outside of her near-instant R is automatic, targeted and/or AoE.

Both Sona and Nami have;

A way to speed up teammates A way to empower teammates's AA A way to poke up to 2 people A way to heal up to 2 people AoE hard CC A way to slow enemies

As much as I love Sona to death, Nami;

Has better overall base stats (more starting HP, more mana, more AD, more MS, slightly less starting armor but better armor per level) Has AoE hard CC accessible pre-six, has it twice in her kit, has it more often, and from better range Has a much stronger AA buff (even if you take into account all 5 people on the Sona team properly using the proc, the slow on Nami's still gives her the edge) Her slow is up more often, can be applied 3 times in a row, effectively costs less mana (taking into account that Sona needs 3 spells for Tempo) and can be given to an ally rather than go into AA range yourself Her PASSIVE gives more speed than Sona's skill that costs 65 mana Her heal is inherently better in every aspect and at every point of the game, AND not only does she have the option to max it first without auto losing the lane and her mana pool, maxing W first is actually her default mode (except in a lane where you somehow take almost no damage and your ADC is god tier at using your E)

Literally all that Sona has on Nami:

Crescendo comes off faster than Aqua Prison/Tidal Wave (kind of a void argument if you are using both of them to follow up engages rather than hard engage on your own) Sona hits like a truck in lane

If you want a generalist support on your team, Nami > Sona, unless you are like me and you really, really love Sona.

Cindikle1 votes

Has better overall base stats (more starting HP, more mana, more AD, more MS, slightly less starting armor but better armor per level)

To offset how much easier it is to use Sona's abilities. Nami takes more risk to cast a spell.

Has AoE hard CC accessible pre-six, has it twice in her kit, has it more often, and from better range

Nami has better overall CC, Sona has better overall mobility and freedom in her spells.

Has a much stronger AA buff (even if you take into account all 5 people on the Sona team properly using the proc, the slow on Nami's still gives her the edge)

It takes 3 allies for her passive to be stronger than Nami's. Assuming max rank R. But this is also slightly harder to figure out. Because you also have to factor in her Q damage and passive. But then you also have to factor in the rest of Nami's abilities. I'd say they're near equal.

Her PASSIVE gives more speed than Sona's skill that costs 65 mana

Assuming both have, lets go with 200AP.

Nami's boost is 100, 200 with ult.

Max E and R gives Sona a 27% boost. A 375MS player gains a 101.25MS boost. While Nami can gain more from her ult, Sona's is always AoE. Sona herself gains a 38% MS boost from this. Which can last up to 5 seconds. At max CDR she can keep this up about 80% of the time on herself.

Her heal is inherently better in every aspect and at every point of the game, AND not only does she have the option to max it first without auto losing the lane and her mana pool, maxing W first is actually her default mode (except in a lane where you somehow take almost no damage and your ADC is god tier at using your E)

I'd agree Sona's heal could use some love. But you also have to factor in the shield. Sure it's not the same. But the difference is she can prevent damage and heal it. Although this shield was mostly to replace the armor/mr buff she once gave.

While both are similar. They are still very different. One thing to note is that Sona plays more of a poke mage early game and transitions into more of a support as she gains R ranks. Not saying she weakens as a poke mage either. While what Nami does overall stay the same as the game goes on. Nami has more counterplay as well. As the game goes, you can land every ability. But the enemy will in time get used to you and probably start taking advantage of how you play.

I agree Nami>Sona. But I've always liked playing Nami and find Sona mostly boring. And if I'm playing an ADC I'd rather have a support, not a Nidalee without skill shots. Even if she does become powerful as the game goes on.

only zhule2 votes

I would disagree about Nami being a more risky champion. Your abilities are point and click, not skill shots. It might be a tad easier to cast Sona's abilities, but I would say that Nami isn't at any real risk when she casts hers. Please also remember that your poke will often bounce back and heal you, off setting a good chunk of an enemies attempt to punish you. Sona has to both be in range for the Q and then be in range for the AA to get the full power of her ability.

You are right Sona's AA buff gets stronger if you tag 2 allies. But that's still just a magic damage buff, the slow Nami offers usually offsets that by miles. Also due to passives Nami gives a movement speed buff, along side the damage and slow on the ability. Sona just gives a chunk of damage.

As for the movement speed thing. 2 issues, one if you are level 18 as sona and only have 200 AP something is likely super wrong. That aside, it's more of an issue that Nami gets to gift 1-2 allies with bonus movement speed for free while also either healing them are giving them a damage bonus. Sona get's the chance to AOE movement speed boost her team, but must use up mana, and have maxed her most useless skill and be level 16 to be on par with a passive of another character. Also with the new movement speed items and Sivir becoming a popular pick for teams that want to speed around the map, Sona's movement speed ability just keeps feeling more and more of a waste.

I know someone will try to point out that the movement speed ability can also be used as a slow. But let me point out what you need to have that happen. You need to be within auto attack range of your target, you need to have cast your movement speed ability as your last spell, you need to have your passive up before auto attacking, you need to either have the enemy near death or your team RIGHT behind you to capitalize on the slow. That's a lot of thing that you need to line up for a 1.5-2 second 40% slow. A lot of other champions with slows have their on a basic ability and also have it start at 40% and go up.

As for getting use to the rythem of how a player plays Nami and thus being able to dodge her CC, try playing against someone who gets use to your poke from Sona. It's amazing how easy it is to bait Sona in to over extending to try and land that Q or the empowered AA

Cindikle2 votes

By safer I mean that 3/4 of Nami's abilities have cast times, while Sona is just 1. And not a very long one. There is more counterplay to Nami. Sona's just squishy. But that doesn't mean you'll kill her. Nami takes skill and timing to play. Sona mainly just manages stacks and positioning.

Also, Nami has to use mana for her speed boost as well. While it applies to every ability she uses on an ally. It also means she has less control over it on demand. Her W can bounce to an unfavorable target. Her E could be on cooldown. You must not be in a tight spot if you're using Q for the speed boost.

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

By safer I mean that 3/4 of Nami's abilities have cast times, while Sona is just 1. And not a very long one. There is more counterplay to Nami. Sona's just squishy. But that doesn't mean you'll kill her. Nami takes skill and timing to play. Sona mainly just manages stacks and positioning.

Also, Nami has to use mana for her speed boost as well. While it applies to every ability she uses on an ally. It also means she has less control over it on demand. Her W can bounce to an unfavorable target. Her E could be on cooldown. You must not be in a tight spot if you're using Q for the speed boost.

I feel that this comment implies that Sona doesn't take skill to play.

You have a bit of a point with the passive speed boost, you can't be sure it will hit the ally you want if you are using it off the bounce back of her Q. That said it still does feel kind of shitty when you compare her and Sona. Since in essence Nami's Q has all aspects of Sona's kit (minus ultimate and her passive) in it. damage, healing, and a movement speed buff. While Sona's versions have the chance to effect more allies, it doesn't change the fact that all three of her abilities are tied together in another champion's one ability.

Booriin1 votes

{quoted}

By safer I mean that 3/4 of Nami's abilities have cast times, while Sona is just 1. And not a very long one. There is more counterplay to Nami. Sona's just squishy. But that doesn't mean you'll kill her. Nami takes skill and timing to play. Sona mainly just manages stacks and positioning.

Also, Nami has to use mana for her speed boost as well. While it applies to every ability she uses on an ally. It also means she has less control over it on demand. Her W can bounce to an unfavorable target. Her E could be on cooldown. You must not be in a tight spot if you're using Q for the speed boost.

Sona's passive add 3 more skills that Sona have to manage and use them for right moments while Nami passive apply on every spells she cast, so she can burst ton of utilities at same time.

Sona W need timing and Sona have to put herself in mid fights to buff her whole team, while Nami can stay at backline. Both Sona and Nami are AP support but Nami's Q made her kit don't heavily depend on AP like Sona.

I know that Nami Q take quiet a lot skills to land but If you are Nami main and you have great amount of games with her, you can improve ur skill with her, land her Q more often.

BTW I just tried some normal games with Janna and I found her even more easier and safer to play, I don't have to fear Blitz at all =.=

Cindikle1 votes

As someone who probably plays ARAM too much. Janna can go to a dark place and stay there.

Xonra2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiAtxEfk,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-08-22T02:55:55.804+0000)

Nami

Even Nami is more flashy than Sona is.

Her bubble and her ult at the very least, while they aren't Lee Sin Flashy, they make flashy plays when done right.

Sona at most can "look" flashy ish if she flashes and hits her ult on more than 1 person.

Zone of Endless1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiAtxEfk,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-08-22T02:55:55.804+0000)

Nami

She's not even played in LCS/LCK/LPL or barely picked and the buff to her passve/ult isn't even that game changing.

Aeolian Melodies3 votes

{quoted}

She's not even played in LCS/LCK/LPL or barely picked and the buff to her passve/ult isn't even that game changing.

  1. I didn't mention the most recent buff, I was just mentioning her as she outclasses Sona as a generalist, so Sona doesn't even have the "but I do a bit of everything decently" excuse for being picked over specialists
  2. I've seen her in Chinese games. I have yet to see Sona anywhere.
SEKAI5 votes

She's mute so she can't complain when mistreated and Riot dickishly abuses that.

only zhule3 votes

For all my complaining i do get why the rework was happening. She had a lot of burst potential and coupled with her ability to chain gun her passive it was a lot of damage to deal with from a support type character. That said i think the rework was very poorly done. A character who can chain gun their spells (all of which had the same cooldown) can be trouble some to deal with. So making the spells all have longer cooldowns and not all be on the same timer makes sense. Having a passive that does a fair amount of bonus damage can be hard to deal with, so lowering the amount of bonus damage is a good way to deal with that. However hitting both of this "problem" areas at the same time makes it so that the champion is severely hobbled. Take basically any other champion and remove 50% of their damage/ power from one of their core abilities, that ability is now going to be garbage compared to where it was at.

Lets look at her as a support. Before she could stand at the very edge of combat and provide a lot of invisible power to her allies. I understand why this was a problem, no one likes having their opponent suddenly gain a pile of stats for no apparent reason, and it's hard to keep track of what aura she had up. I understand the idea of lowering the range of the aura's and updating the visuals. I think it's super hard to miss the bright colors around Sona when she has an aura up now. And for the damage bonus you can clearly see the blue glow around the champions hands. But again we have the same basic issue, rather then updating the colors and seeing if that effected the flow of the game, or lowering the aura range. They did both, plus they completely removed the passive stat bonuses and the ability to stack auras. In it's place you know have one time bigger use "bonus" from your auras instead of constant lower power stat bonuses.

dimpure2 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=dimpure

I think my sona stats explain the sona now is okay.

Many people just don't know how to be against those other supp, especially against soraka,

sona can win against soraka, there is a way.

Sona can win thresh,blitz, there is a way.

All you need to do is to find the way.

You can win all other supps with sona, but don't pick sona against leona, that's my advice.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I've played Sona successfully against Leona. It's all a skill matchup in the end.

Edit: sorry, didn't see you were Plat. I retract my statement because I might not know any better at the bronzie level.

only zhule8 votes

{quoted}

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=dimpure

I think my sona stats explain the sona now is okay.

Many people just don't know how to be against those other supp, especially against soraka,

sona can win against soraka, there is a way.

Sona can win thresh,blitz, there is a way.

All you need to do is to find the way.

You can win all other supps with sona, but don't pick sona against leona, that's my advice.

Every champion has some way to win against basically any other champion. There will always be champions who are better counter picks against any one champion. That said, the issue isn't if Sona can win in the right situation, it's that her over all power took a massive hit and Riot refuses to give any of it back.

Aeolian Melodies7 votes

{quoted}

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=dimpure

I think my sona stats explain the sona now is okay.

Many people just don't know how to be against those other supp, especially against soraka,

sona can win against soraka, there is a way.

Sona can win thresh,blitz, there is a way.

All you need to do is to find the way.

You can win all other supps with sona, but don't pick sona against leona, that's my advice.

The "way" is to be a better player than them to the point where the fact that your champion has a natural disadvantage is no longer a factor. That's not what I'd call "fine".

darapier172 votes

i agree, however she is in a bad spot and requires a lot of skill to play as

also i have never lost lane against soraka

Sonasaurous2 votes

Just encase anyone who doesn't understand why Sona mains complain about her current power level.

I'm a Sona main (before and after the rework) and I'm not complaining about her power level.

She changed. She's not the same as she used to be. The people complaining simply don't like/accept/or adapt well to change. It doesn't mean she's worse, it just means she's different.

Edit: also, *in case

only zhule7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiAtxEfk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-21T23:45:31.586+0000)

I'm a Sona main (before and after the rework) and I'm not complaining about her power level.

She changed. She's not the same as she used to be. The people complaining simply don't like/accept/or adapt well to change. It doesn't mean she's worse, it just means she's different.

Edit: also, *in case

different doesn't always mean worse you are correct. That said, i would ask how given the stats above you can say she different but not worse off then where she was.

dimpure1 votes

When it changed for the first time, it was "TOO GOOD" so sona alone can burst damage like ap mid.

Now, sona still can burst damage with power chord and still can dominate bot with appropriate adc.

After several those balance patch, now sona is eventually balanced.

Booriin3 votes

{quoted}

When it changed for the first time, it was "TOO GOOD" so sona alone can burst damage like ap mid.

Now, sona still can burst damage with power chord and still can dominate bot with appropriate adc.

After several those balance patch, now sona is eventually balanced.

Idk how can Sona dominate bot lane with appropriate adc when 8/10 players pick Leona, Blitz, Braum, Sivir, Nautilus,...To counter her. Tank supports can easily zone Sona and her ADC after 2nd recall.

As a Sona main, I won't try to dominate bot lane because that mean she will push her lane and turn her duo into free gold when enemy jungler/mid/top visit bot.

Sonasaurous1 votes

Leona, Blitz, Nautilus and Thresh are a skill matchup when it comes to Sona. I've won countless times in lane as Sona against them. It's simply a matter of who is better: Sona at dodging skillshots or Leona/Blitz/Naut/Thresh at landing engage.

Sivir is like Morgana, in which, sure, they have that one shield, but that thing has a long cooldown afterwards. Most of the time you can fake out, make them use the shield, and then poke when its down.

only zhule5 votes

{quoted}

When it changed for the first time, it was "TOO GOOD" so sona alone can burst damage like ap mid.

Now, sona still can burst damage with power chord and still can dominate bot with appropriate adc.

After several those balance patch, now sona is eventually balanced.

The issue isn't 100% based on her damage. While it would be nice to have some of her old damage back, especially with the meta still favoring character with more base health, armor, and general ability to absorb damage, Back when the fight was something like Janna or Soraka VS. Sona her damage was a real issue. hitting for a bonus 50 damage is a lot more impressive when your enemy has 600 health, compared to many support champions now who would be at the same level in the game and be rocking 1100+ health.

And no i don't think it's a matter of her being good with the right ADC. Before she would be great with champions like Jinx, or Lucian. Champions designed to hit repeatedly and get the most out of that old passive +20 AD/AP. Now what champion really can use and abuse a single use bonus magic damage AA. i think it's a matter of your opponent letting you get your Q, powercord AA combo off on them repeatedly. And then hoping your ADC has the ability to finish off a weakened opponent.

I would be totally happy if they had shifted the power she use to have in her poke to something else. Even if she ended up a tad weaker over all i don't think it would have been as much of a blow as just having basically every part of her kit become less impressive. Her heal is a joke, the trade off that was given was +5 base healing for 50% of the passive on the skill. The amount of mana it costs in the early game is insane you don't even great the 1:1 ratio of health healed vs. mana spent (assuming you heal yourself and your ally). Her movement speed went from a passive you could hit once then shift into more useful skills once the battle started, into this abomination that you need to spam 2-5 times while your entire team is in this super tight death ball.

If you don't count the stat bot play style that some people used before the rework, Sona was basically the lane bully who traded good health and a lot of safety for her ability to chunk enemy champions. Her identity was basically a glass canon. She now often feels like she's only useful in these death ball situations. I personally think it's very subpar design that i have to spend 60% or more of the game being weak, because i'm only able to buff 1-2 character instead of the 4-5 that i'm "balanced" around.

I don't think Sona is balanced. While her damage might be in a semi ok spot (still could probably use a little buff to empowered Q with how the bottom lane currently goes). Her other skills are seriously lacking. For a character who got very firmly slapped back into ONLY being a support, she still needs to build like an AP carry for her utility to have any real effect. If i'm not suppose to be a big damage dealer then why is my heal on a 10 second cooldown, why are my base healing numbers so weak when compared to other champions with a heal? Why is my AP ratio on my heal 20%?

Back when the rework rolled out i said that i though the one time use aura's were a horrible idea. I honestly think and still believe they could have just lowered their range, so that Sona had to play constantly close to her allies to make them stronger. Imagine old Sona but all her aura's have a range of 400. Or if that was still a little to strong make it so that the aura still wear off but they provide a constant boost while up so rather then one and done all her abilities, your allies got small windows of powers to make play more exciting. Hell they could even rework the whole aura's last longer thing that she currently has into something more interesting like the bonus grow stronger the more allies you tag. Like say you tag one ally, they get +10 true damage on all AA and abilities for 3 seconds... But if you tag a second person they get +15. The aura is only up for a brief bit, but it makes tagging additional allies feel more worth the effort. As it stands if i tag all my allies i get +2 seconds on my aura. But all the bonuses they offer can't be reapplied, so who cares. Also it's very rare i find that the plus half a second is enough time to tag an additional ally i would have missed otherwise.

Sonasaurous1 votes

Perhaps, and hear me out, it's a playstyle preference. Old Sona was a passive player who kept a safe distance from the battle while buffing her team with infinite auras, but if an enemy jumped on her face she still did a lot of damage and could get out (unless they literally were Annie or LeBlanc and jumped on her face). And while there was nothing inherently wrong with that playstyle (other than it being kind of cheap, or as forum goers would call it "roll face" or "no skill"), I can see why Riot wanted to change it.

New Sona, in my opinion, is designed to be more inclusive to the fights (I think Riot mentioned, when explaining the Zeke's change, how auras are hard to identify and notice when they're actually working or doing anything, which is something that carried over from their Sona change when they wanted to make her aura range more easily visible). Personally, I like how Sona is now. It makes me feel like I'm actively contributing to my team. I feel like she requires more skill now, especially since even with 40% cdr her abilities still have stupid long cooldowns (compared to her old "lol what cooldowns"), and now she has to make actual decisions on when and what aura to use. And yet she still has that "face roll" "no skill" quality that is easy to pick up and learn.

I'm not saying she's perfect as she is. As previously mentioned all over the forums, her heal sucks early game because Riot purposefully made it so its only effective mid and late game (because only Soraka and Nami are allowed to have an obnoxious sustain lane), which still isn't a bad thing considering how she's made to be a teamfight support (in which the heals and shields do become OP. With AP). Or my personal pet peeve, her base movement speed was nerfed (because how dare she dodge the Blitz grab/Thresh hook/Leona stun/Nautilus anchor easily).

Would it break Sona if they lowered the mana cost of her W? No. Is Riot going to do it anyway? No. If they did would it actually make me max W first? No.

I'm rambling now, but her poke is nothing to laugh at and is another reason why I love playing Sona but hate playing against Sona. Often times, the poke game is so oppressive that the laning phase is spent with the enemy bot hugging their turret (and it's so easy to avoid ganks when you ward the river). And this is against lanes with the tanky touchy-feely supports. If anything, Soraka is my least favorite support to go against because her heal game is stupid strong. Yet I wouldn't trade the new strong poke for stronger early game heal since I often don't need it (maybe I just get lucky with competent adcs, or maybe my lane bullying is too effective, I don't try to know).

So ultimately, I'm saying she's different. I don't think she's "worse" compared to what she used to be, I just think she was redesigned to play a more active part in the game, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

only zhule1 votes

I do like her new play style to be honest. having to be closer to the action makes her feel like she's doing more for the team. That said i do have some issues with it. For a champion that has to be much closer to the front lines to assist her team, she wasn't really given any new abilities to do so. Her base health is still painfully low, her damage output got a downgrade, and her movement speed was lowered ( i also personally feel like she moves SUPER slow with mobility boots but that might just be my imagination).

As i said i don't mind the lower ranges on the auras i just wish they hadn't changed them to be both lower range and single use effects. As for her W, i don't feel that it needs to be strong enough in the early game that it's a viable option to max first (would be nice but not 100% needed). I would just like to not have to drop near 1/5 of my mana pool for a very low powered heal on a fairly long cooldown. Also the heal never really becomes all that amazing, the shield can be pretty strong in the late game when you are tagging all your allies with it, but the heal never has enough base amount to really make it feel super strong, also the AP ratio is pretty low so you have to already be fed as can be to have high value.

The aura rework really just doesn't make sense in a lot of ways. We went from auras could stay on forever and provide low level bonuses, to these short lived one time use things. But what really gets me is the plus half a second your aura stays up for each ally tagged. This idea could be amazing, but with how she currently works it's really kind of sad and useless. Rarely will the bonus time allow you to tag an additional ally that you couldn't get to before, and if you have already tagged all of them at the button press why would you need +2 seconds of the aura being up? I think there are two ways to keep the aura idea the way it is, but make them feel more powerful.

  1. Change the aura's back into base power buffs. Keep them with the low range and the limited timers, but make them pretty strong so that each time they are used you give your team a little window to be extra aggressive/ harder to kill. Keep the bonus time per ally tagged, but make it so that even if you tag all your allies at once the aura still has some use for the bonus time it's up.

  2. Change the aura's into a stacking power-up. Imagine if Sona's aura's gave a bonus, but then gave a +5% bonus for each new champion tagged. So that if you are just using it for your self you get say +80 magic damage on your next attack. Tag an ally and they get +84 magic damage on their attack, if you manage to tag them all the last one tagged gets +96 magic damage on their next attack. Same basic idea with the shield it's ok when tagging one ally, but it's amazing when you tag all five. Also encase someone is wondering, the bonus amount given would ally the highest percentage if multiple allies are tagged. So basically if you tag your entire team with the button press, they all get the 20% bonus on the ability.

Over all the thing that i miss most about old sona was her siege power. When you combined her ability to fast cycle through abilities for quick powercords, along with her bonus AD/AP from Q, she use to be able to really do a lot against towers. Now she's super lack luster in that regard. Sure powercord still does bonus damage to them, but the on hit effect doesn't go off against towers, making her very slow at chipping them down.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I wouldn't mind if Riot would clarify her auras, especially for all of her teammates. Like, if he heal is going to be crap, then would it really be so bad to make it affect all of her allies that are within her aura range. I would even take a slightly lesser heal if it meant I could heal all of my allies at once (so long as they were in her aura). That way, she could still have her crappy expensive heal in bot lane to heal her adc, but she could also be slightly more useful to teamfights with her more AoE crappy heal. Or the same thing with her Q, instead of being a one-hit bonus, the bonus damage should last as long as the aura lasts or as long as the ally is within the aura. And for quality of life, the E bonus movement speed for allies should last as long as they are in the aura and rapidly decrease over time once they leave the aura.

Because if auras are going to be auras, they should act like it. But I don't want them to be stackable or infinite again.

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiAtxEfk,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-23T20:25:31.545+0000)

I wouldn't mind if Riot would clarify her auras, especially for all of her teammates. Like, if he heal is going to be crap, then would it really be so bad to make it affect all of her allies that are within her aura range. I would even take a slightly lesser heal if it meant I could heal all of my allies at once (so long as they were in her aura). That way, she could still have her crappy expensive heal in bot lane to heal her adc, but she could also be slightly more useful to teamfights with her more AoE crappy heal. Or the same thing with her Q, instead of being a one-hit bonus, the bonus damage should last as long as the aura lasts or as long as the ally is within the aura. And for quality of life, the E bonus movement speed for allies should last as long as they are in the aura and rapidly decrease over time once they leave the aura.

Because if auras are going to be auras, they should act like it. But I don't want them to be stackable or infinite again.

Yeah on paper the stacking idea seems super cool, but i can only imagine how much of a pain it would be to balance it. And to be honest, yeah..... the infinite aura was kind of bull.

I will say that i would prefer her not to have a tiny AOE heal. While on paper it seems amazing, trying to balance that would likely make it garbage if you didn't hit at least 3 allies. Like take the current rank 1, 30 health (not factoring in the bonus based off missing health) now imagine that if you could hit everyone, you have a rank 1 heal that does 150 health and provides a shield. Now imagine rank 5 you have a 10 second heal that does a total of 550 healing with a 20% ratio. Even if you only get about 200-250 AP that adds up really quickly.

Sonasaurous1 votes

Well that would partially be the point of the heal, to only really be useful and impactful when Sona is healing most of her team. I feel like that would fit in more with the new role Riot has given her where she must be in the middle of the team fight with her team

Though a ten second aura is too much. I think if the auras would have powerful buffs (say, theoretically, the buffs increase based on her AP or whatever) then her current aura durations should be fine, otherwise it would be overwhelming for the enemy team.

This is why it's hard to buff Sona in the first place: how do you make her effectively useful to her team, relatively fine on her own, but not overwhelming and OP to the enemy team? In which, right now she's okay in all those aspects. A few love buffs wouldn't hurt anyone, but she doesn't desperately need them either.

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiAtxEfk,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T01:06:39.385+0000)

Well that would partially be the point of the heal, to only really be useful and impactful when Sona is healing most of her team. I feel like that would fit in more with the new role Riot has given her where she must be in the middle of the team fight with her team

Though a ten second aura is too much. I think if the auras would have powerful buffs (say, theoretically, the buffs increase based on her AP or whatever) then her current aura durations should be fine, otherwise it would be overwhelming for the enemy team.

This is why it's hard to buff Sona in the first place: how do you make her effectively useful to her team, relatively fine on her own, but not overwhelming and OP to the enemy team? In which, right now she's okay in all those aspects. A few love buffs wouldn't hurt anyone, but she doesn't desperately need them either.

My worry is that would hurt her laning phase even more. Her heal already feels underwhelming during the laning phase (honestly underwhelming to me until i've got max CDR, some decent mana regen, and a chunk of AP built up). I can only imagine what it would be like if they made that spell even weaker during that phase so that it's stronger in the late game.

I don't want 10 second aura's that seems to long a time or they would have to limit the power of the aura to compensate. I'm fine with something like a base 2 second aura that gets plus half a second per ally tagged. With an aura that actually does something "aura like" instead of the current one and done way they work.

I think i've said somewhere before that the heal could probably be "fixed" if they lowered the rank one cost by like 20. But made each additional rank go up by 10 compared to the current 5.

Sonasaurous1 votes

By all means, her heal is shit. There's no nice way to say it, it's just shit. Because if Sona, with her strong poke, is allowed to have a good form of sustain for herself and her ally, then that's unbalanced and toxic to the game. Yet Soraka and Nami are allowed to exist with far better sustain and just as strong poke, and no one bats an eye.

I'm fine with something like a base 2 second aura that gets plus half a second per ally tagged.

This is how her auras currently work.

only zhule2 votes

yes i know that's how they work, but i would hardly call what she does auras anymore. item 3105 this provides an aura. What sona does doesn't really feel like an aura anymore.

Xonra3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiAtxEfk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-21T23:45:31.586+0000)

I'm a Sona main (before and after the rework) and I'm not complaining about her power level.

She changed. She's not the same as she used to be. The people complaining simply don't like/accept/or adapt well to change. It doesn't mean she's worse, it just means she's different.

Edit: also, *in case

Actually she didn't "change" at all. All that was changed is her aura range and the fact her aura time was cut. That isn't a change, that is a nerf. I was also a Sona main, and played her almost entirely in Season 3.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

{quoted}

Actually she didn't "change" at all. All that was changed is her aura range and the fact her aura time was cut. That isn't a change, that is a nerf. I was also a Sona main, and played her almost entirely in Season 3.

She did change - her auras all have different effects. Passively granting AD+AP and passively granting MR+Armor is nowhere near as effective as a tiny AA buff (literally all that it's good for: 1) Sona's own poke 2) Laning with Ezreal) and a small shield with the shortest shield duration of the game. The one that's closest is her E but even that was changed in its application.

darapier174 votes

i have mained sona since after the rework and i have found that she isnt a frontline poker/tank, nor is she a backline healer and dosent fit into any real roles that supports fit into. I have found that her heal is complete bullshit as it does a max of 150-160 health restored (base), whereas nami has a heal that does 230 base health and BOUNCES between allies and enemies doing damage to enemies.

DJ Di02 votes

Forgot how brutal patch 4.17 was.

Booriin2 votes

Thanks for your research and thanks for understand us.

Another day without Sona change on PBE sigh

jjookkeerr1 votes

i didnt liked the rework but imo she was fine after it, but they nerfed her heal, her Q hit effect and now she is worthless.

Lugg1 votes

And despite all of this, she still has a 52% win rate across all tiers. Here's a quarter, call someone who cares.

Booriin1 votes

Just tried 2 more games with Janna and Won them both, holy xit, Janna is so reliable, her Ult is just godly =_=

AWildAPKalista1 votes

Actually, not even the reduction of her ult's cost was a buff. It was just a standardization to what was already granted countless other champs a very long time before that. If anything, it just further proves Rito's blatant unjustified discrimination against Sona.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/3dRQ6g4P-its-now-been-1-year-4-months-and-2-days

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