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Hey Riot, please explain your balance philosophy to me.

Niyumi··1 votes·373 views

I just really don't understand it.

ADC: 3 seconds of AA spam (no thought or effort whatsoever) -- 8000 damage.

Mage: 3 seconds of full rotation with no CDs (tons of thought, micromanaging and aiming) -- maybe 3000?

Assassin: 3 seconds of full rotation with no CDs (less thought than a mage but more than an ADC, lots of micromanagement) -- maybe 5000.

Super high skillcap champion vs. zero skill champion, even mathematically, the harder champion loses. How is that fair? Shouldn't the champion that puts in 15x the effort get a greater reward out of all of it? Shouldn't the braindead champ be penalized for being so easy? If no, why?

Do you even have a balance team? Because honestly I imagine them just sitting around a table figuring out how to make the most money off of skin sales by tweaking champions and forcing meta shifts and FOTM champions -- not actually giving a damn about the state of the game or its balance.

I just do not understand how this game is "fair" or "balanced" in any way, shape or form, unless we live on a planet where it's always opposite day. (And no, I'm not talking about just preseason. This has been something I've noticed since I began playing this game in mid-June)

9 Comments

Jamaree1 votes

First off your numbers are wrong, second you aren't factoring in a lot of things, third, don't strawman argument when it comes to comparing things.

Balance isn't that black and white, nor is it that easy, and a lot of things that you as well as I don't see come into balancing and not money, if it was money, Syndra, Bard, and Azir wouldn't be getting snowdown skins.

Yes, ADCs get a lot of DPS in turn, they are the squishest, have the least ways to survive people diving them, and do rather mediorce damage early in compared to other classes.

Mages generally get hard burst, which means yeah, in an overall DPS, ADC is higher, but when you do that "3 k" in a second while having the opponent stun, that DPS over time don't mean shit.

Niyumi1 votes

{quoted}

First off your numbers are wrong, second you aren't factoring in a lot of things, third, don't strawman argument when it comes to comparing things.

Well they're not real numbers, they're just generalized guesses to show where each class sits at.

Balance isn't that black and white, nor is it that easy, and a lot of things that you as well as I don't see come into balancing and not money, if it was money, Syndra, Bard, and Azir wouldn't be getting snowdown skins.

I'm aware that balance isn't black and white, but I'm also aware that effort/reward is a factor that apparently doesn't exist at Riot. The easiest champs in the game are, by far, the strongest. Just look at a Yi against a team with little hard CC -- they do not stand a chance.

As for money... just look at Lee, Riot's poster boy. Crowds at LC$ love him, so he will never be weak.

Yes, ADCs get a lot of DPS in turn, they are the squishest, have the least ways to survive people diving them, and do rather mediorce damage early in compared to other classes.

Yeah, I don't really buy the whole squishy part, or the mediocre early damage part.

  • A) I was Illaoi, and I had ~320 AD, with a Triforce (so, a LOT of damage, right?) I pulled a spirit out of the enemy Ashe, had a tentacle sitting nearby already, and ulted her AND her entire team. So I had 7 tentacles. Wd Ashe three times (Triforce, plus W's damage, plus 7 tentacles)... each tentacle does ~550 damage, my W did ~450 damage per hit... but yet, she lived with only a BT to sustain her. Then she killed me, and went on to kill two more people before dying. So, please, don't tell me they're squishy. As for ways to survive, let's look at any myriad number of ADCs with a long range movement ability, a dash, MS boosts, stealth, or CC. They have PLENTY of tools to get away and survive.

  • B) Whenever I play support, the ADC can AA me for ~1/5th of my HP (As Tahm, I take 80/700 HP in one auto, so 10 autos (which isn't hard to do) and I'm more than dead). Today, playing Illaoi mid, Quinn would take me to 1/4 HP at LEVEL 2 with her Q+Vault combo and a few AAs. But yeah, low early damage for sure.

Mages generally get hard burst, which means yeah, in an overall DPS, ADC is higher, but when you do that "3 k" in a second while having the opponent stun, that DPS over time don't mean shit.

Mages burst once, and then they're done. ADCs burst harder, and never stop bursting so long as you're within their massive range. If you have an ADC and a mage see who killed a squishy target faster, the ADC would win 9/10 times, and would only ever lose because they didn't get that one lucky crit.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

I'm aware that balance isn't black and white, but I'm also aware that effort/reward is a factor that apparently doesn't exist at Riot. The easiest champs in the game are, by far, the strongest. Just look at a Yi against a team with little hard CC -- they do not stand a chance.

And in turn, if you DO have hard CC, you make him more or less useless, it is why he never sees tourney play or any real high elo play, because you hit him with a stun, then blow him up. If he was the strongest, he would get played every game, but in a game focused around teamplay, he is a pubstomper, pure and simple.

As for money... just look at Lee, Riot's poster boy. Crowds at LC$ love him, so he will never be weak.

You mean the champion that has consistently sat at a below 50% win rate? He isn't even all that strong, he gets lots of utility, but unless fed, he doesn't really do much.

Yeah, I don't really buy the whole squishy part, or the mediocre early damage part.

  • A) I was Illaoi, and I had ~320 AD, with a Triforce (so, a LOT of damage, right?) I pulled a spirit out of the enemy Ashe, had a tentacle sitting nearby already, and ulted her AND her entire team. So I had 7 tentacles. Wd Ashe three times (Triforce, plus W's damage, plus 7 tentacles)... each tentacle does ~550 damage, my W did ~450 damage per hit... but yet, she lived with only a BT to sustain her. Then she killed me, and went on to kill two more people before dying. So, please, don't tell me they're squishy. As for ways to survive, let's look at any myriad number of ADCs with a long range movement ability, a dash, MS boosts, stealth, or CC. They have PLENTY of tools to get away and survive.
  • B) Whenever I play support, the ADC can AA me for ~1/5th of my HP (As Tahm, I take 80/700 HP in one auto, so 10 autos (which isn't hard to do) and I'm more than dead). Today, playing Illaoi mid, Quinn would take me to 1/4 HP at LEVEL 2 with her Q+Vault combo and a few AAs. But yeah, low early damage for sure.

I don't believe that, and even more so because the one game you have with Illaoi, you played against Quinn and didn't buy armor...at all until your last item it seemed. Yes, a champion who builds full damage is going to do a lot of damage, if you don't buy defenses against them, what do you expect for them to tickle you?

And no, no they can't. Unless you are playing Sona or have no armor period, no ADC at level one is going to hit you for a fifth of your life.

Mages burst once, and then they're done. ADCs burst harder, and never stop bursting so long as you're within their massive range. If you have an ADC and a mage see who killed a squishy target faster, the ADC would win 9/10 times, and would only ever lose because they didn't get that one lucky crit.

That isn't how burst works, and no, no they don't.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

all i did was read the "yi vs a team with little hard cc - they do not stand a chance"

without items, yi isnt very strong so if you dont put any effort into playing the game and he suddenly comes out of the jungle with fullbuild vs your 1 item + normal boots, i guess he is pretty strong.

Paroe1 votes

100% crit with IE, 200AD and 1.25ASP does more damage in ten seconds than a ziggs with 1000AP.

League of legends is not a game which rewards skillful play. It is a game which rewards who can do the highest amount of effective burst; the reason why lifesteal is SO powerful on crit champions is because of that exact reason... it reduces the effective damage an ADC takes to MUCH less than they would naturally.

Armor itemization is also intrinsically broken due to the fact riot cannot balance resistances and damage without creating an exponential wall... Your attacks will either do so little that the tank youre fighting does damage, or kills you, through sheer tenacity or you shred a 5000HP 200armor 200MR tank in under 5 seconds. There is no middleman of balance, and armor is ALWAYS weaker than crits because if a crit champ stalls the game, armor becomes useless. Its actually better, if the game goes on long enough, to swap from tank to bruiser/full offense because youre just going to die and do no damage.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

there is no "super high skillcap" champion in the game. cat puts on sunglasses

WoonStruck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=AyRe CoNteMpT,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HbWeiwpX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-03T09:08:24.409+0000)

there is no "super high skillcap" champion in the game. cat puts on sunglasses

I agree. This game isn't hard. The only people that talk about champs that require 'skill' are people trying to stroke their own ego.

Most of the complexities come from your global decision-making, not mechanics.

Niyumi1 votes

While I agree that no champ is hard (though Bard and Syndra definitely come close), I'm talking relative to other champs.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

yeah, me too. the hardest champs in the game are probably the ones you would think of last, like garen, shyvana etc. all those which have only one button and rightclick.

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