Like champions like yi tryndamere and jax really lack skill expression and as a result end up stomping low elo, with lesser results in high elo (Well except for jax bc that shit is broken in high elo too) But i just wish champions that were autobased would show some skill expression rather than -I right click/ I go untargetable/gain tank stats/ become literally unkillable and still 2 shot you. It's just boring to me.
Death by Glamour28 votesjax stomps every elo currently
Alzon3 votesLike Winona’s Tropius
Death by Glamour2 votesI have no fucking bloody idea what that is and knowing these boards I sure as hell aint googling it
xaritscin3 votesPokemon (Ruby,Sapphire, Emerald editions and their remakes)
Death by Glamour2 votessorry didn't know it would be that, usually its some sort of weird hentai
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Velzard of Koz3 votesDon't worry, nobody blames you for being suspicius.
agac42341 votesits a pokemon character. i was ready to take the L tho
Reaper Claws1 votesConfirmed, seen some sick shit on the internet, why the fuck not.
ChaddyFantome12 votesi dont see how/why lower elo stompers are unhealthy for the game. They teach low elo players to get better at the game, and the players who use em will inevitably find they are less effective than other things and move on as they themselves get better at the game.
RainbowIcee5 votesthey're also a lot better to deal with than champions with abusive kits that are "skillful" but in reality are slowly driving the game from simple to stressful/annoying.
Emo Twink2 votesBoth should be dealt with imo.
Syrile7 votesThere are a lot of kits out there that simply should not exist. Not because they are truly op or because they are unbeatable. No, it is because they are not fun and they detract from the fun of the game when those champions are in it. Especially a one-trick or a smurf. The kits are designed to give you as little counterplay as possible against them and have insane safety and damage. It is really a poor idea for the game. Tryndamere is a perfect example of this offensiveness. Same for Master Yi. Jax is just broken from the ground up and needs to be fixed.
kingDeDeDarius3 votesThere are a lot of kits out there that simply should not exist. Not because they are truly op or because they are unbeatable. No, it is because they are not fun and they detract from the fun of the game when those champions are in it. Especially a one-trick or a smurf. The kits are designed to give you as little counterplay as possible against them and have insane safety and damage. It is really a poor idea for the game. Tryndamere is a perfect example of this offensiveness. Same for Master Yi. Jax is just broken from the ground up and needs to be fixed.
Honestly, pure AA based melees are pretty stupid, I personally like the darius/vi/Sion types when balanced, but those AA based champs wouldn't be so busted of not for things like conquerors, essence reaver, and the basic fact that they are hyper scaling champs that delete Squishies and tanks, while barely having any kiting weaknesses and being able to tank more damage than the juggernauts class while having strong escape and gap closers. Before, you could build armor and in most cases at least compete until they were nearly full build with armor pen. Now they are late game scaling gods without true early game weakness anymore.
Syrile1 votesHonestly, pure AA based melees are pretty stupid, I personally like the darius/vi/Sion types when balanced, but those AA based champs wouldn't be so busted of not for things like conquerors, essence reaver, and the basic fact that they are hyper scaling champs that delete Squishies and tanks, while barely having any kiting weaknesses and being able to tank more damage than the juggernauts class while having strong escape and gap closers. Before, you could build armor and in most cases at least compete until they were nearly full build with armor pen. Now they are late game scaling gods without true early game weakness anymore.
Yeah. I like bruisers to be honest. I also like heavy tank types. I like almost every type of character. The problem I have is what you are talking about. Riot has this desire to push a type of gameplay to the point that nothing else is viable (or at least nothing else is fun). And it is really frustrating. Especially with the removal of the need to scale for a lot of the ridiculous champions.
Sasogwa2 votesThere are a lot of kits out there that simply should not exist. Not because they are truly op or because they are unbeatable. No, it is because they are not fun and they detract from the fun of the game when those champions are in it. Especially a one-trick or a smurf. The kits are designed to give you as little counterplay as possible against them and have insane safety and damage. It is really a poor idea for the game. Tryndamere is a perfect example of this offensiveness. Same for Master Yi. Jax is just broken from the ground up and needs to be fixed.
Honestly I don't really understand why people find trynd offensive, his counterplay in and outside of lane is crystal clear, and he's much more kiteable than Yi or Jax.
Syrile1 votesHonestly I don't really understand why people find trynd offensive, his counterplay in and outside of lane is crystal clear, and he's much more kiteable than Yi or Jax.
It is not a direct complaint on him being op or anything like that. It is more of a comment that if you are a melee champion, and wanting to learn a new champion and have to pick second and he gets picked, he can literally stand still, do nothing to actually display any skill and there is no punishment for it even when he makes a horrible play like turret diving because his damage is so high, he has sustain and even unkillability that can only be stopped with Silence, not even other CC. Also, a slow and a dash so it is harder to escape him.
The kit itself is built for extremely simple play with a lot of things that protect you from making bad plays as well.
And Yi and Jax are horrible examples. Jax is flat-out overpowered and Yi is one of the worst examples of a champion in the game (I mentioned both of them actually).
AlienPrimate7 votesIf it lacks skill expression why are there people who main said champions in iron and bronze as well as in challenger?
Succubús GF5 votesThe thing about skill expression is im talking kit wise. A champion's skill expression =/= player's skill
AlienPrimate2 votesThat is exactly what I'm talking about. It has absolutely nothing to do with the champion and everything to do with the player. If someone is stomping with Tryn or Yi they will likely stomp with a "healthier" champion too. This means that there is no such thing as a brain dead champion. The better player wins, not the more brain dead champion.
Zeyphel3 votes[deleted]
AlienPrimate3 votesreduce the micro mistakes that a player can do to none or almost none and let them freely focus on macro alone. Doing this, they also reduce counterplay options and become frustrating to play against.
So because someone doesn't make mistakes they are frustrating to play against. That just sounds like being better than their opponent to me. If you never make a mistake on the champion of your choice, that means you are good at the champion of your choice and deserve to win.
Tarquin963 votesTHe thing he is trying to say is that some champions are harder to make misatkes with than others,if a champion is so easy to play that u cant make mistakes with him,he should be changed in some way
AlienPrimate2 votesThe opposite can also be said. A champion that has a low chance of screwing up on 
also has a very low chance to out play their opponent if they are behind. Champions like 
can easily screw up and get killed but if they fall behind they also have the option to outplay their opponent by making a good move.
kingDeDeDarius5 votesThe opposite can also be said. A champion that has a low chance of screwing up on
False sort of. A zed or Lee who are ahead can easily end the game and very few champs have counterplay against them unless they themselves are reasonably fed. Pretty similar to many champs tho tbh.
Crescent Dusk2 votesFalse sort of. A zed or Lee who are ahead can easily end the game and very few champs have counterplay against them unless they themselves are reasonably fed. Pretty similar to many champs tho tbh.
Pretty much why I pick Garen or Sion/Irelia into Zed. Ain't nobody got time to deal with that WEQ electrocute "IWIN" R that gives immunity frames, stored damage and an escape from retaliation all in one bullshit.
Now, if I could find a similar solution for just as busted LeBlanc.... Zed shadows on a lower cd and a root on top.
MLDzXnRRR1 votes[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hb6UZ8PL,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-19T01:33:14.718+0000)
Pretty much why I pick Garen or Sion/Irelia into Zed. Ain't nobody got time to deal with that WEQ electrocute "IWIN" R that gives immunity frames, stored damage and an escape from retaliation all in one bullshit.
Now, if I could find a similar solution for just as busted LeBlanc.... Zed shadows on a lower cd and a root on top.
Much of Zed's Op-ness is in electrocute and duskblade. It's honestly bs - I remember trading kills with Zed as Fizz, come into lane with cloth armor, instalose half hp from electrocute proc. There was no such thing in season 4 when I remember Zed was considered very fair and high-skilled champ. With the introduction of burst damage in the runes (season 5 - thunderlords decree) and duskblade, he became super annoying and overpowered in the hands on people that play him often. (Zed instalosing the game, if he doesn't finish on time may be changed by giving him better base stats, so he doesn't get 1 shot later by anything, in exchange for more healthy poke patterns)
Crescent Dusk1 votesMuch of Zed's Op-ness is in electrocute and duskblade. It's honestly bs - I remember trading kills with Zed as Fizz, come into lane with cloth armor, instalose half hp from electrocute proc. There was no such thing in season 4 when I remember Zed was considered very fair and high-skilled champ. With the introduction of burst damage in the runes (season 5 - thunderlords decree) and duskblade, he became super annoying and overpowered in the hands on people that play him often. (Zed instalosing the game, if he doesn't finish on time may be changed by giving him better base stats, so he doesn't get 1 shot later by anything, in exchange for more healthy poke patterns)
Zed is also one of the best scaling assassins alongside Akali. It says something about his tuning when he can R, land a single E and Q (no deouble shurikens or triple) and that will pretty much guarantee a kill even on someone with tabis and no further armor items.
Hell, he can kill most mages and assassins with just a WEQ combo by late game, the ult is often just overkill or a gap closer.
Meanwhile Talon falls off HARD and Katarina for some reason does as well despite being as mechanically complex if not moreso than Zed.
Fizz outscales Zed but since unlike Zed most assassins suck in laning phase, they rarely get to make it out.
Zed also has the distinct advantage over every single other assassin in that he doesn't have to kamikaze into melee to do his damage with no outs, unlike Talon or Fizz or even a Katarina who has used her gap closer. Zed ults in, hits 3 skills, shadows out and his target is dead, or in the worst case scenario he WEQ's and seriously harms most nontank targets.
MankeyMadness2 votesPut me on Wukong or Voli and I can tear up my elo. Doesn't mean I can play Elise, she's too micro intensive.
Yi, Annie, Nunu, and Garen etc., have almost no room for mechanical issues or decision making. They do the exact same thing in every situation.
Theres almost no "If, then" statements to think about, no combos to set up or timing windows to worry about bar Ult cooldowns (and Volis W) Winning on those champs is game skill and takes little to zero knowledge of the champion itself. Another word is "Binary".
Does Annie have her stun up? Either she does and can burst + stun you and walk away with a kill or she doesn't and she's vulnerable until Q resets or E casts are available to stack. If Yi runs at you, either you CC him and stay out of Alpha range or he slices your entire team to ribbons.
Wukong either can EaaQR you and burst you down/run away in stealth... or he cant go in/goes in and dies.
Contrast say, LB who uses her waveclear to escape or dash on you, but gets to choose lock down with RE, mobility with RW, or burst with RQ. On top of that, where she Ws to and how she uses chains effects her damage. Not to mention minions can block them. You CANT make mistakes on Annie and Yi micro wise. They hover the cursor on a target press 3 buttons and collect kills
Zerenza2 votesYour wrong, the lower ELO you go the less needed Macro gameplay is. The easier a champion is to play the better your Micro game is and the higher your likelihood of winning becomes, to add to this the easier a champion is to understand the more you can focus on Macro once you've mastered them. Riven player's, Yasuo player's, Lee Sin player's, the list goes on and on and on have a lot of mains in low ELO but their winrates are usually abysmal because the champions require too much from the player in order to fulfill their goal. As their experience with the champion increases their ability to use the correct combos in the correct situation will increase but in comparison to champions like Jax, Tryndamere and Master Yi the time it takes to master the champion is substantially lower.
Wild Geese3 votesRiot's favoritism towards Tryndamere and Master Yi for instance, they get buffs constantly whenever an item is nerfed - since they are just item carrier hypercarries all in all.
Even though they have never been viable anyway.
Tryndamere especially deserved a rework like, 2 years ago at least. Worse design than Aatrox, impossible to kill in lane impossible to duel late game. Not fun.
Ragnaveil2 votesAgreed. When I heard the reasoning of Aatrox's kit being changed other than opening him up to more players, was also "too carbon copy and stat check heavy" I wondered what loopy land I landed in afterward as Tryndamere ended up becoming worse than what Old Aatrox could achieve at his pinnacle through sheer stat check alone.
solopolo33 votesHonestly, no. 1v5ing your way out of low elo doesn't need to be made any more hellish than it already is.
SanKakU1 votesBut what if the champs that let you win despite poor odds were team-oriented? Is that even possible? Janna used to be super strong, and then the rune rework happened.
solopolo31 votesBut what if the champs that let you win despite poor odds were team-oriented? Is that even possible? Janna used to be super strong, and then the rune rework happened.
You're gonna play team-orientated champs to climb out of an elo that either doesn't know or doesn't want to play as a team, and expect to climb? Fat chance.
MasterDClone3 votesbut a lot of people play those champions because they are so brainless, hell it's why i play yas because i don't have to think i can just farm really easily and then clap em at the end
omegaheals2 votesAgreed, and I would also include Vayne in the list.
agac42342 votesto be honest you can play master yi in high elo too i mean cowsep does(i dont know how to spell his name) and there is also foggenftw that plays tryn in high elo its just that ppl dont know how to play these champions in high elo rather then "they dont work in high elo"
WyvernEgg2 votesPeople forget that league isn't only about actually playing the game. Half the battle is in champ select.
Doge20201 votesFunny enough I had two games where I made the enemy jax complain about the champ I was playing. The first one was Garen where I was absolutely stomping him. and the other was Quinn where I was still snowballing hard, but not as hard as the garen game.
ThisName1sDumb1 votesYeah Garen vs Jax is a fun matchup for garen if the jax isn't the best, I haven't had trouble with jax as Garen for a long time
Crescent Dusk1 votesYeah Garen vs Jax is a fun matchup for garen if the jax isn't the best, I haven't had trouble with jax as Garen for a long time
Block Garen's Q with Jax, proceed to beat up Garen with conqueror Jax.
ThisName1sDumb1 votes[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hb6UZ8PL,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-01-19T01:30:26.257+0000)
Block Garen's Q with Jax, proceed to beat up Garen with conqueror Jax.
Unless it's late game, Garen just has to try to stop him from building up his passive, e when he e's, and w the stun and it's really no big deal. A good Jax will obviously be able to beat up a bad Garen, but in my recent experience Jax is not too bad for Garen in lane. Sure Jax can block Garen's Q with his E, but Garen's Q is on a much lower cooldown than Jax's E, so the general idea would be to bait out the E with a Q then go in when it's up again, or just don't lead with Q. Either works as long as the Jax isn't ahead. If he is ahead, then yeah, you're probably in some trouble
Glaricion1 votesI think that there's way too much to do about 'skill expression' in the League Community. With the hatred for simpler champions and point-and-click abilities I constantly wonder why there aren't slews of threads on why AA's should be made into skillshots a-la Battlerite or Smite.
Do not 'decision making' champions have a place in the game? For their simplicity they usually have multiple tools taken away from them etc... Hell, one of the hardest champions in this game is Singed. Despite his simple kit he requires a high amount of game knowledge and sense to properly pull off.
Simple champions also help with accessibility issues, reliability vs power levers during balance + champ select, etc...
As for Yi, Trynd, and Jax...
Yi - I think that his slow immunity, resets, and true damage should be removed from his kit and he abuses the new Rageblade way too hard, but skill expression?
A good Yi will wait out important spells and then enter a fight dodging key spells using his alphastrike. Sources of damage can be mitigated using meditate, for how long he meditates is a risk/reward on losing his target versus dealing more damage.
Tryndamere - iirc during a podcast Marc Merrill himself stated that Trynd was an outdated and bad design even when on release.
Jax - Essence Flare is really broken, he shouldn't have aoe reduction on his counterstrike, and why can he autoattack during it?. That being said, I think his main problem is how strong he is early on w/ how well he scales whilst still being a good duelist in lane.
Syrile2 votesI think that there's way too much to do about 'skill expression' in the League Community. With the hatred for simpler champions and point-and-click abilities I constantly wonder why there aren't slews of threads on why AA's should be made into skillshots a-la Battlerite or Smite.
Do not 'decision making' champions have a place in the game? For their simplicity they usually have multiple tools taken away from them etc... Hell, one of the hardest champions in this game is Singed. Despite his simple kit he requires a high amount of game knowledge and sense to properly pull off.
Simple champions also help with accessibility issues, reliability vs power levers during balance + champ select, etc...
As for Yi, Trynd, and Jax...
Yi - I think that his slow immunity, resets, and true damage should be removed from his kit and he abuses the new Rageblade way too hard, but skill expression?
A good Yi will wait out important spells and then enter a fight dodging key spells using his alphastrike. Sources of damage can be mitigated using meditate, for how long he meditates is a risk/reward on losing his target versus dealing more damage.
Tryndamere - iirc during a podcast Marc Merrill himself stated that Trynd was an outdated and bad design even when on release.
Jax - Essence Flare is really broken, he shouldn't have aoe reduction on his counterstrike, and why can he autoattack during it?. That being said, I think his main problem is how strong he is early on w/ how well he scales whilst still being a good duelist in lane.
While I am not so sure on some of this, I do really think that the focus on mobility and burst is what causes the problems. The highly mechanical champions being favored over decision-based champions, ones that require strategy and tactics are being destroyed for those that you can click buttons on and kill everyone.
Worse though with all the buffs is that even the difficulty goes down so much that it is easy to do even as a beginning. First time I picked up Zed I completely messed up pressing buttons and still killed the person. And that was before the new damage-focused meta.
Who Fed Ru1 votesmeanwhile riot:
nasus q extra stacks buff
Jerry SeinfeId1 votesThat's like saying ganondorf should be more like shulk in smash. not every champ has to exist out of 50 minigames to allow you to play the damned game. and you'd still not be happy if they got reworked.
If either of them does get reworked they'll still be aa reliant, we saw the aatrox backlash. And it's not that many other champs are that hard. Lux or ezreal have a 90% skillshot reliant kit and yet are considered easy. Ezreal still gets the same shit thrown at him that the aa adc get thrown at them.
stop pretending you're some kinda mechanical god because you landed a skillshot, hell if yi/trynd is in range to do his damage you have to actually try to miss him if you want to miss him.
skillshots aren't hard.
FéliXXX1 votesyou can stomp with every champ in low elo so...
SeaWeaboo1 votesI feel like mechanically speaking some champs should be easy to play so newer, and bad players have something they can try and learn game knowledge. I do not feel like champs as simple as Garen, Yi, and Tryndamere should not exist. These champs if shut down are useless and if fed are monsters. They have no counterplay in their kits and only rely on positioning and awareness. I feel all champs like this should be reworked to at least be able to outplay without using flash rather than just being a counter to other champs. I feel like there are many champs that are "braindead" and they are all frustrating to play against whether you win or not unless they are feeding. (just to name a few others I feel like Teemo and some adc's like Ashe, and MF to fall into this category as well)
Wild Geese1 votesAll things considered there are at least 10 low elo pubstompers at the moment, simply can't ban them all. Maybe half will get banned. Kha'Zix, Yasuo, Tryndamere, Master Yi I consider the worst and most popular. Zix is rarely banned.
But then there's Le Blanc, Jax, Udyr, Pyke, Karthus, Veigar, Blitzcrank, Nasus, Twitch, Kayle - you can't cover all the bases. Just a lot of cheesy champs atm.