@Meddler @Ghostcrawler (Pls don't shoot), what are your thoughts on Nasus?

HateDaddy·Apr 13, 2015·4 votes·7,667 views

I read on rog of which champions are on the radar for being updated and Nasus wasn't on the list. This isn't me begging or demanding a rework for him, I'm quite happy with his playstyle and design as an avid Nasus main. However I realize as an older design, at some point or another, Nasus will likely get looked into. The question is if and/or when.

There are people who claim he's really unfun to play against and while I say that sort of statement is really misrepresented, it isn't an uncommon opinion either. So I wonder, is Nasus on your radar soon? What are your thoughts on his design and if he has good gameplay, etc

36 Comments

RiotMeddlerApr 14, 201519 votes

We're pretty happy with him overall. Does he scale into enormous amounts of damage? Yup. But he does so as an extremely immobile champion, who, even with an incredibly stacked Q can be kited by a team with at least a bit of crowd control. That creates a bunch of interesting play around shutting him down, versus, as Nasus/his allies, trying to find ways to get him face time on a target. It also means that, unlike some other immobile fighters, he's got a clear purpose late game. If you can get him onto a tower, or a squishy target, it'll pay dividends, so is well worth coordinating around.

Possible we might tweak a couple of things at some point (ranges or passive amount for example), no immediate plans to do so. It's also worth noting the current meta should be pretty favorable to Nasus (longer fights, some other top laners that also want to farm a lot) which probably gives him a bit of a boost right now.

KingsgraveApr 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're pretty happy with him overall. Does he scale into enormous amounts of damage? Yup. But he does so as an extremely immobile champion, who, even with an incredibly stacked Q can be kited by a team with at least a bit of crowd control. That creates a bunch of interesting play around shutting him down, versus, as Nasus/his allies, trying to find ways to get him face time on a target. It also means that, unlike some other immobile fighters, he's got a clear purpose late game. If you can get him onto a tower, or a squishy target, it'll pay dividends, so is well worth coordinating around.

Possible we might tweak a couple of things at some point (ranges or passive amount for example), no immediate plans to do so. It's also worth noting the current meta should be pretty favorable to Nasus (longer fights, some other top laners that also want to farm a lot) which probably gives him a bit of a boost right now.

Why does he have the Bonus AD on his Ultimate? Why does his Ultimate do %Health damage instead of just flat magic damage like Renekton's? Why does his E reduce Armor by such a large amount?

I think Nasus is fine but most of the random things on him are a bit much.

HateDaddyApr 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Why does he have the Bonus AD on his Ultimate? Why does his Ultimate do %Health damage instead of just flat magic damage like Renekton's? Why does his E reduce Armor by such a large amount?

I think Nasus is fine but most of the random things on him are a bit much.

Because people have this idea set in that Nasus is a defensive juggernaut when in reality, he isn't. Every single skill he has, while having some defensive power (his ults flat health gain, wither as an escape tool [weak as it may be]) is pretty offensive oriented.

The % damage on ult is designed to reward an immobile melee champion for being in the middle of a team and fighting, same with the bonus AD. Renekton doesn't have this because Renekton isn't immobile, Renekton has 3 abilities that scale with AD and Renektons power is focused on early game, not late. These also give him more versatility overall as hes immobile so there are some teams he simply can't do much against in terms of damage, so at least he can offer some form of utility and front lining power. Asking why he has this is a bit silly, every champion has power invested in their kits in some manner similar to this.

@Meddler, given the tank meta, Nasus is decent for lane phase. There aren't really many tanks who can shut him down in lane. But they make his life a living hell in teamfights, etc. So id say his split pushing and farming power might be stronger but with beefy front liners ccing him forever, there's still a lot of potential to shut him down in fights. I'm not asking for buffs, I'm happy with him currently. I was just curious on your stance, thanks for the reply.

DEmperor95Apr 14, 20152 votes

I honestly think that the window of opportunity to shut down a Nasus in the early game is quite limited, and should be expanded. His early game weaknesses are almost completely mitigated very early on; he has immense sustain with his passive, and he becomes a lot stronger/tankier after his first back and getting level 6, allowing him to do whatever he wants.

CuixApr 14, 20157 votes

I think the main problem with Nasus right now is that his positional counterplay is very limited. He can be kited and held back, yes, but once he's on someone his victim has very little real outplay potential. This could be somewhat mitigated if, say, his Q was a skillshot, separating the good Nasi from the great Nasi.

AbyssphereApr 15, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I think the main problem with Nasus right now is that his positional counterplay is very limited. He can be kited and held back, yes, but once he's on someone his victim has very little real outplay potential. This could be somewhat mitigated if, say, his Q was a skillshot, separating the good Nasi from the great Nasi.

I'm not really sure how you'd go about making his Q a skillshot. I mean it's an empowered auto, and it affects towers. So you'd need to find some way to make what is currently (obviously) a melee ability into a ranged skillshot (unless it's possible for an ability to be a melee skillshot, I can't think of any?). And you'd also need to find a way to make it a ranged skillshot that affects towers.

Personally I don't like the idea of Nasus shredding carries and towers from range, nor farming from range. And I can't quite think of a way to make something a skillshot while also being melee. Closest I think think of is Nidalee's Swipe but that's still pretty impossible to miss and AOE to boot.

I mean there are just so many problems here. Nasus is a melee fighter, he fights at point blank range. At point blank range I don't think it's actively possible to miss a skillshot, so there's basically zero chance of a Q missing regardless :/ Am I missing something? Probably a joke.

CuixApr 15, 20152 votes

Oh my god. Dude. Such a joke. Suuuuuch a joke. Skillshot Qs are a current (and likely highly temporary) pain point in terms of reworks/updates, and the "separate the good X from the great X" is a longstanding LoL meme. I didn't want to just outright put "Kappa" at the end of the post because that just feels stupid and condescending, but maybe I should edit one in lmao.

AbyssphereApr 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Oh my god. Dude. Such a joke. Suuuuuch a joke. Skillshot Qs are a current (and likely highly temporary) pain point in terms of reworks/updates, and the "separate the good X from the great X" is a longstanding LoL meme. I didn't want to just outright put "Kappa" at the end of the post because that just feels stupid and condescending, but maybe I should edit one in lmao.

Lmao I'm sorry. My only defense is that I can imagine some people actually supporting the idea of a skillshot Nasus Q just because of the "skillshots for everyone" trend XD And your post looked so serious...

ShinjusukeApr 15, 20155 votes

+1 for falling for joke without going on ragefest

ProvengreilApr 18, 20153 votes

to answer you melee skillshot question, see yasuo. He has one.

Teridax68Apr 14, 20155 votes

How do you feel about Nasus's gameplay in lane? On one hand, there's a tremendous amount of strategic play revolving around denying him farm early on, whether it be through precise zoning and lane control or heavy ganking, but there are also occasions where his laning pattern feels pretty low on direct interaction, since he's incentivized to actively ignore his opponent and power through with his healing on minions. How would you go about encouraging Nasus to fight his opponents early on?

RiotMeddlerApr 15, 20157 votes

Agreed, his laning can be a bit passive at times. I don't think it's inherently a problem if the onus to be aggressive is consistently on one champion (not Nasus in this case). Where I think we do see issues is where aggressive action's just not rewarding, in large part because of the Lifesteal from his passive. Could see an argument for nerfing that (and potentially shifting the power elsewhere if appropriate) if we conclude at some point he needs a clearer early weakness. It does currently allow him to function in a range of lanes he'd otherwise really struggle in however, so not personally seeing a need to change it right now.

HellioningApr 15, 20152 votes

On a kinda-related, kinda-not topic, what do you feel about flask? I don't have a problem with it for certain champs (such as Fizz or Kass using it to get through their terrible early levels) but when you get it on a champ that already has a bit of sustain, like Nasus, it can be really frustrating.

SantanaTheSlick Apr 15, 20151 votes

Trick2meddler opening the gates?

Karthus Pushed RApr 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Agreed, his laning can be a bit passive at times. I don't think it's inherently a problem if the onus to be aggressive is consistently on one champion (not Nasus in this case). Where I think we do see issues is where aggressive action's just not rewarding, in large part because of the Lifesteal from his passive. Could see an argument for nerfing that (and potentially shifting the power elsewhere if appropriate) if we conclude at some point he needs a clearer early weakness. It does currently allow him to function in a range of lanes he'd otherwise really struggle in however, so not personally seeing a need to change it right now.

The problem I feel with changing Nasus so he has to fight more is well, he can't. Right? Like, his whole focus is going to be spending the CD of his Q trying to farm. His E? Costs too much mana. It's insane on the mana cost, especially since it's weak as fuck. Then his W is his bread and butter (even more so than his Q) which allows him to even function as a melee threat.

There's no room in his kit to reward being aggressive as Nasus, and just outright nerfing him on his passive is silly since that would be cherry picking. It would be like throwing a dart at a board and saying "c'ya Nasus until a season+ from now where we give you help, if even!"

The champion is designed around passive play, and while some could call that toxic, I could just as easily say hyper aggressive top laners like Riven or Lissandra or Darius are even more "toxic". It'd rather lane vs a Nasus than a Riven or Lissandra any day of the year. I think having champions that do different things is fine. And in Nasus's case, he tries to farm, and has a passive that tries to assist in that.

Nerfing the mana cost on his E might be something that is explored, but again, it's not a good ability. It's pretty crap, actually, and if you remove part or all of his passive then dump something on his E to make it an actual ability, you're probably just going to create a whole 'nother problem.

I think on the list of 'champions that need change/nerfs' though, Nasus is very, VERY far at the bottom of that list. The fact he's brought up over many other problematic or neglected champions (to me) shows you aren't paying attention to the game. Sorry to throw you under the bus there. Personally, I play him a bit (not tons) but I've played as and against him enough to warrant he's (frankly) not that bad. I also feel even when ahead, if his team falls slightly behind, he struggles to really carry and is easily just CCed and killed. So, for that reason, I wouldn't even consider him that amazing of a soloq pick. I don't think he's weak, mind you. He has his place, but it has never crossed my mind he's too strong. This is the first time in almost a year where the meta is FINALLY in his favour. That doesn't mean you need to instantly cut him down again. Once you guys tone down the tank meta a bit, I assure you he'll be back into the darkness without even needing a nerf.

What about top laners building jungle items? Sejuani? Evelynn? Warwick? Poppy (who you plan on turning into a tank LOL), Mundo?, Malzahar, Quinn, Shen, Singed, Trundle, Yorick, Bard, Jayce, Gangplank, Miss Fortune, Elise, Aniva, Kennen, Darius?

These are all champions that either need buffs, nerfs, changes, complete reworks all way more than Nasus. I think if you work through every single one of these champions, then it may be time to bring Nasus on the plate, but until then, get to work.

DashzApr 14, 20152 votes

Coul you make in a future a "Thoughs on Zed"?

See you.

ItemsGuyApr 14, 20153 votes

Hmm, main problems I could see him creating for the games he's in over the long haul are the fact that, while yes, part of what makes him unique is the ability to infinitely scale his Q, this tends to encourage Nasus players to remove themselves from the game and avoid participation with their allies until they feel their Q is stacked "enough", which tends to not be until much later in the game.

The problem here, since it is not one shared by Veigar, Thresh, or Sion (who all share infinite scaling), is mostly created by the circumstance of Nasus's character as a low-mobility, top-lane fighter. While Veigar wants to last-hit with his Q as much as possible, he does so in the middle lane where the entire enemy team has fairly quick access to him and can attempt to shut him down if he's ahead, while the effectiveness of Thresh's souls tapers past a certain point, and Sion doesn't need to do anything in particular to farm up health/scales infinitely in a defensive way (it exists more as a bonus than "I must do this, this is my entire character")/has a kit that revolves around interaction with enemies rather than self-preservation.

Nasus, on the other hand, scales offensively with his Q (so Nasus players who are not steamrolling are likely to feel that they haven't farmed "enough"), lives in the isolated top lane which requires the entire enemy team to go far out of their way to stop him from farming (which isn't easy, considering he has a lot of tools to prevent people from killing him), and due to the nature of his kit, benefits more from having enemies come to him than chasing after them and thus has no real reason to pursue interaction with enemies until the game's almost done. While you might say "Well, a good Nasus would know not to farm forever and would interact with his team when they need him," you need to keep in mind that kits communicate with players, by outlining the behaviors their mechanics encourage, enable, and reward--so this interaction is a result of a good player, not good design.

However, Nasus's patient "last-hit with Q as much as possible" gameplay in lane is pretty interesting in the context of matchups, so I think eventually, a good way to adjust his gameplay while maintaining his flavor would be to turn that Q stacking minigame into something with much more frequent decisions and rewards that also allows the player to feel like they're playing Nasus "right" while interacting with the rest of their team and the enemy team as early as the laning phase, while still rewarding enemies for keeping him away from his farm.

ModIts Yuu and MiApr 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We're pretty happy with him overall. Does he scale into enormous amounts of damage? Yup. But he does so as an extremely immobile champion, who, even with an incredibly stacked Q can be kited by a team with at least a bit of crowd control. That creates a bunch of interesting play around shutting him down, versus, as Nasus/his allies, trying to find ways to get him face time on a target. It also means that, unlike some other immobile fighters, he's got a clear purpose late game. If you can get him onto a tower, or a squishy target, it'll pay dividends, so is well worth coordinating around.

Possible we might tweak a couple of things at some point (ranges or passive amount for example), no immediate plans to do so. It's also worth noting the current meta should be pretty favorable to Nasus (longer fights, some other top laners that also want to farm a lot) which probably gives him a bit of a boost right now.

Hi Meddler.

4NoxiousHoursApr 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're pretty happy with him overall. Does he scale into enormous amounts of damage? Yup. But he does so as an extremely immobile champion, who, even with an incredibly stacked Q can be kited by a team with at least a bit of crowd control. That creates a bunch of interesting play around shutting him down, versus, as Nasus/his allies, trying to find ways to get him face time on a target. It also means that, unlike some other immobile fighters, he's got a clear purpose late game. If you can get him onto a tower, or a squishy target, it'll pay dividends, so is well worth coordinating around.

Possible we might tweak a couple of things at some point (ranges or passive amount for example), no immediate plans to do so. It's also worth noting the current meta should be pretty favorable to Nasus (longer fights, some other top laners that also want to farm a lot) which probably gives him a bit of a boost right now.

Nasus shouldn't stack from turrets. js.

Also him one shotting an ADC/support/mage and have an infinite HARD slow movements on enemies isn't fair. He can't get kited off if he slows you down that last for too much of a long time.

HateDaddyApr 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Nasus shouldn't stack from turrets. js.

Also him one shotting an ADC/support/mage and have an infinite HARD slow movements on enemies isn't fair. He can't get kited off if he slows you down that last for too much of a long time.

In a 1v1 situation late game? No, not many champions can kite him. Not many champions can kite a lot of champions whether it be through low CD gap closers or cc, I'm not sure why people are so worked up over this being the case for Nasus.

As a team, he is incredibly easy to kite out. You don't even have to use hard CC, just slows and less powerful CC is enough as a team as you kite him and re-engage on him and his team once he's low/dead. That's literally why he isn't played at all competitively and it's why as a top Laner in the last 3 years, he's had an abysmal time, 3-11 in LCS/worlds since season 3 as a top laner.

SilvenApr 14, 20157 votes

Every time I play against a Nasus, the gameplay is utterly boring. He farms himself up, ignores his team completely until, at 40 minutes and with a single damage item, he just strolls up to any objective of my team, presses Q twice and it crumbles. Usually takes three people to shut him down 1v3, and even then, two people die in the process. And while we're busy dealing with the one-dog-apocalypse, the enemy team is pretty free to do what they please. Kiting him is easier said than done considering his monster slow and ridiculous tankiness.

Bottom line, whenever there's a Nasus in the game, I just feel like it's a question of time, because he will inevitably single-handedly win the game for his teammates...

Krys StarApr 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

We're pretty happy with him overall. Does he scale into enormous amounts of damage? Yup. But he does so as an extremely immobile champion, who, even with an incredibly stacked Q can be kited by a team with at least a bit of crowd control. That creates a bunch of interesting play around shutting him down, versus, as Nasus/his allies, trying to find ways to get him face time on a target. It also means that, unlike some other immobile fighters, he's got a clear purpose late game. If you can get him onto a tower, or a squishy target, it'll pay dividends, so is well worth coordinating around.

Possible we might tweak a couple of things at some point (ranges or passive amount for example), no immediate plans to do so. It's also worth noting the current meta should be pretty favorable to Nasus (longer fights, some other top laners that also want to farm a lot) which probably gives him a bit of a boost right now.

Do you consider it fair and balanced that Nasus can Siphon Strike structures, but Rengar's and Sejuani's ability to do so was considered a bug and 'fixed'? Do you also think it is fair this his Wither lasts over a whopping FIVE seconds with a short cooldown when you take into consideration how often Nasus stacks cooldown reduction?

There's, without a doubt, that Wither is the most crippling soft-cc that practically disables a champion for the duration of five seconds, especially physical-based carries.

RiotMeddlerApr 15, 20158 votes

I do feel it's fair that Siphoning Strike affects tower, whilst Rengar Q and Sejuani W don't. Building destruction is one of Nasus' core strengths, in part so that he's always at least a moderate threat even if your team can stay away from him forever. It's something he needs to function. Rengar by contrast's there to kill a dude a bunch (and then either get out or kill more dudes), bringing mobility and stronger (over a short duration) lockdown. Sejuani's got a lot of CC, most of it AOE and she's there to lock down and control team fights. Neither of them needs to be strong at destroying structures to be useful members of a team.

kayakninjaApr 15, 20151 votes

I've always wondered, why does Rammus get to do that on his ult? It feels really out of place on him, particularly since he's the only champ that gets to structure kill with abilities other than Azir.

Photos of GhostsJun 24, 20151 votes

And Alistar.

FantasySniperApr 15, 20151 votes

Can there be a better shut-down system to him?

Just waiting to kite out his huge threatening presence can be hard to do - especially with an unsuiting team comp - while his team can still initiate and then you're just plain stuck between a rock and a hard place that really, really hurts.

HateDaddyApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Can there be a better shut-down system to him?

Just waiting to kite out his huge threatening presence can be hard to do - especially with an unsuiting team comp - while his team can still initiate and then you're just plain stuck between a rock and a hard place that really, really hurts.

To be honest, CC is so prevalent in this game that it's really hard to have a comp that can't kite out Nasus as a team. And if the issue is a bad team comp in general, Nasus isn't the problem, the team comp is.

FantasySniperApr 15, 20151 votes

It's not just about having CC. A Maokai or Nautilus could desperately CC him for peel, but if no one has the ranged damage to take him out safely, there's no stopping him. Any "required team comp just to counter" usually means there's a flaw in the champion's balance. Requiring a certain counter-pick to have a chance against is unhealthy enough, but a whole team designed to be able to deal with one champion?

I'm ok with Nasus getting ahead and being harder to kill when ahead, but as he is now he is next to impossible to shut down because he becomes so hard to kill due to him building tank, yet still dealing crazy damage that sustains him.

NateKillerApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We're pretty happy with him overall.

Yes! Thanks for that Meddler :-)

Many of us love Nasus as a champion and would be sad to see his play-style drastically altered. It's good to know his niche is secure.

TheorcheroApr 14, 20158 votes

inb4 wither skillshot

qetzelApr 14, 20153 votes

Nah... They only do that to Q

HateDaddyApr 13, 20152 votes

SalidfingersApr 14, 20151 votes

I remember killing a full build nasus 3 times.

Zil Ult + GA are such a pain in the ass, but i killed that raid boss with massive sustain

Sergeant StephenApr 14, 20151 votes

I had a mid-lane AP Nasus carry vs. a Katarina the other day. It was funny xD although it would not have worked at all if it was played more, worked because of the unexpectedness.

CHEAT ENGINE ssdApr 16, 20151 votes

I'm a guy who's not a Nasus main, but I do like playing him.

I've done well on him (i got 1000 stacks one time was 8-1 vs mundo!!!), but I've also done bad on him. You have very poor wave clear, so if the enemy is able to establish a lane freeze you are so vulnerable to the gank that their jungler is just waiting for. Everyone knows you have to punish Nasus all the time, you have to out play him mentally. Obviously Nasus players aren't foolish either, but you need to find way to make him have low stacks early. I know for me, I always like to shoot for 350 minimum preferably 450 stacks by 20 minutes. If someone is able to deny me hard and I'm at like 200, I feel like I've failed already. Whether I will cost the game or not, the other guy got inside my head and f'd me.

FastAsHeckApr 19, 20151 votes

only thing i hate is his passive, which makes pushing and harrasing him under tower impossible. his w is a real pain but not the end of the world, and the rest i can deal with.