Remember when junglers would actually get punished for camping a lane for too long?

Rexxiee··108 votes·6,075 views

Remember when junglers only had 1 combat summoner spell to make up for the fact they influence every lane?

Remember when junglers actually had to play around green purchable wards and had to buy a 400g elixir if they wanted sweep the vision for easy ganks (and they would have to buy it again if they died, so it had a risk)?

Remember when junglers could actually fall behind from ganking too much?

Remember when the game wasant decided by which team has the better jungler 9 out of 10 games?

Good times.

Now we just have to play against lees that can buy a 1 min CD exhaust that gives him true damage, that can sit on a laner and just gank you over and over and keep up with solo lanes regardless if hes getting kills or not, and the only thing the lane can do is hope they have a jungler aswell as trying to ward and playing safe is completely worthless as all you can do is place a 1 minute ward that will just get red sweept/pink warded and now you have over 2 minute downtime of "hope hes not here", before you can place yet another slightly over 1 min ward lmao, you cant even buy green wards anymore to allow you to not die over and over to a camping jungler, its bullshit.

The jungle needs major changes, early game they should be more farming than ganking and ganking needs to have a risk to them, catchup gold/exp mechanic neeeds to be removed as it is absolutely garbage for the game, junglers that are ganking and failling ganks shouldnt get rewarded ffs, like imagine if the game gave passively more gold and exp to someone whos feeding? It would feel awful to win a lane wouldnt it?

78 Comments

Ahristocats16 votes

fire fearless 2017

Essychu33 votes

id rather fire everyone that worked on the jungle in the past 1.5 years tbh.

disgusting.

because of these idiots there are multiple high elo players that were boosted by maining jungle and are now hardstuck ruining games for others.

Jungle is now easier than solo laning because there are systems in place put together so you WILL always be relevant regardless of how TERRIBLE you are.

top/mid?

get ganked once and die/lose flash.

good bye to your lane.

exp? no

cs? no

gold? no

junglers however!!!!

Nameless Drifter16 votes

You have no idea how jungle works. If you get behind as a jungler, its really hard to get back in the game and if you are playing a champ with short initiation only becomes harder.

Theres a thing called farm under the tower? You know a lot of toplaners and other laners do when they dont know where tge jungler is or expect a gank and they dont complain. They get the same amount of gold and experience. You can also buy wards and no they wont be sweep every single time...in fact no enemy jungler will gank a lane if the lane is pushed under the enemy tower.

GelsominoKiller9 votes

Why talk some sense into a salty laner rant thread about getting ganked?

Nameless Drifter6 votes

Yeah I know...people here in the boards complain about the most silly things...and expect everything to be how they want or else the game needs "fixing"

Cr3ator2 votes

I just got out of a game earlier where this actually happened. I'm a whopping S3, and we were going against a mid lane / Jg combo, that was 36-4 in the past 40 games (both of them).

I don't have a solution, cause it's hard to catch boosters. Winning 36 games out of 40 in solo /duo is an obvious boosting, ruining others games. So his post does have some merit, just unfortunate/unlucky.

Essychu4 votes

one guy is a soraka 1 trick the other is a ww 1 trick.

hmmmmmmmm :))

did i mention both diamond 5 trying to act as if they know what they are talking about :)

Nameless Drifter7 votes

If you are talking about me. I can play any role and I have mains in every role :)

I play support because its easier to climb, I have fun in it and I want to improve my shot calling and game knowledge with it .

Im counter argumenting his argument. Thats all. Your comment on the other hand brought nothing to the table and just shows your arrogance and kinda naive. Such a shame.

Essychu4 votes

im not saying its because ur a soraka main that u dont know shit, im saying its because u play support mostly that u dont know shit .

Nameless Drifter11 votes

So Supports are braindead people? Okay mate that makes no sense at all. Every role demands game knowledge, you know. I could list a lot of factors and variables that a support MUST know in order to succed but I doubt you will even acknowledge that.

Again like I said, I play every role and I have mains in every role and Im always trying to increase my champion pool!

Essychu2 votes

again its not that u main support, its that u dont play jungle or a solo lane thats affected by jungle . (as a main role)

if u main top/mid u will have different opinions guaranteed.

Nameless Drifter6 votes

But I do play Mid and Top. If I dont know where the enemy jungler is I wont play aggressive thats Laning phase 101. Until then I can easily farm, do some poking and look to other lanes to see if I can Roam. If you look at Diamond-Challenger and Pro players they all follow this pattern.

Essychu1 votes

they also get fucked just as hard by junglers lol.

wards can be cleared and champs can be dove.

the jungle role needs a rework.

Nameless Drifter6 votes

Yeah because they make mistakes or someone outplays them. Thats normal, we are humans after all.

Wards can be set up again and you can call for help.

No one wants the jungler role to get back to the Devour stacking days, where junglers would stay in the jungle farming most of the early-mid game. Apparently thats what you want....0 ganks and just farm. Really interesting gameplay!

AirKingNeo1 votes

What about the entire balance team? They've helped stir the mess for a long time, and ignoring player feedback.

Ahristocats3 votes

idk, the balance team still has its merit

fearless job was shit from the begining to the end list me one good thing he brought

he removed sona from competition while saying he doesn't care if she sees plays in competition or not which is just a fuck you to all high elo players and then this jungle rework lmao

AirKingNeo1 votes

Except the balance team needs replacing. There is no excuse why after almost a year, Caitlyn and Fiora are overpowered.

Nuparu1 votes

Fiora is good because tanks are good, that'll pretty much never change as long as tanks keep being shoved top lane as she's a natural counter. Her nature as a skirmisher also gives her avenue against normal carries as well. She's basically like Riven but functional against tanks in her nature of being able to control the lane.

Caitlyn is just the good old classic "zone you from 1000 meters way" fun trap stuff that they gave her.

Real fun.

AirKingNeo2 votes

But Fiora beats every fighter too. So that kind of point is false, because tanks are mostly weak right now and Fiora is beating every champion top lane but Pantheon.

Nuparu1 votes

Since when does Fiora beat most fighters?

It's almost always a skill match up or unfavorable for her against fighters unless it's someone like Diana who's just not good.

Also, I'm pretty assured that she doesn't beat Jayce or Kennen.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Jayce and Kennen aren't fighters. Shockingly.

And she does beat most fighters.

TóxicoChicoGuapo16 votes

catchup exp is the biggest issue. i recall a game where I killed the enemy jungler twice in his own jungle early and had like 50 cs on him late game. he got a couple kills off my teammates along the way? same level as me. absurdity.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Played jungle the other day. Doing my first camp (red). The support lux had snuck in and hit me with a Q. Ended up dying to the camp because I took that gamble of one more hit each and me or this camp is going down because I wanted smite for the next camp. Needless to say I was still level 1 when their amumu hit 4. But after I managed a full clear I was caught right back up with him.

RealČernochHours1 votes

Well well,

Which Champ did you play? Many champs clear faster than Amumu, but he should have used his lead and gank or counterjungle while you weren't able to. Maybe it's because he is so Ult reliant to do shit (although he should've taken atleast your blue and maybe even gromp while you were dead) but imagine if the enemies had something like a Shaco , Pantheon or Elise. They would've probably ganked atleast 2 lanes, killed you in your jungle again and took the rest of it.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

I was Galio so without my second ability and a leash my first camp was absolutely horrible. Went to get Scuttle and he showed up there forcing me to run delaying me further.

Kyunsei5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lucian Loves U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HH7RFE7R,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-12T10:41:16.654+0000)

catchup exp is the biggest issue. i recall a game where I killed the enemy jungler twice in his own jungle early and had like 50 cs on him late game. he got a couple kills off my teammates along the way? same level as me. absurdity.

Catch-up exp was meant for support role, but definitely created absurdity for jungler, pushing more aggressive jungler even forward.

Maszii2 votes

This absolutely this. It's utter bs.

lilpokfluf1 votes

Yup, I duo with a jungler and he's been questioning whether it's even worth bothering invading constantly cause the enemy jungler is always are the same level no matter how hard you shut them down. Give them 5 mins alone and they'll be back to your level

AmonTheFallen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lucian Loves U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HH7RFE7R,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-12T10:41:16.654+0000)

catchup exp is the biggest issue. i recall a game where I killed the enemy jungler twice in his own jungle early and had like 50 cs on him late game. he got a couple kills off my teammates along the way? same level as me. absurdity.

BTW now a year later I was 0 4 0 Taliyah who lost 2x Red buff and lost both rift scuttlers to lee sin but still was lvl 17 when he was lvl 15. Its insane how literally now you cant deny enemy jungler for long. Every death means only like 2 min of being weaker but if you dont do anything after those 2 min there is a chance you are outlvld :D Its so stupid.

nice table10 votes

the problem is that the meta junglers are way too healthy and fast when it comes to clearing, if you go and play "off meta" junglers all the things you mentioned that have apparently been left into the past are still very much a thing.

Senpai Negro9 votes

I couldnt agree more. I shouldnt have to fear potentially losing lane at 3 minutes in.

korg0232 votes

Why Riot never used logic "dont fix it if its not broken" we had perfectly fine jungle at the end of season 5 (correct me if i mixed up) ,why they had to ruin it? Why change things just for the sake of change! FOCUS ON NEW CHAMPIONS AND REWORKS DONT WASTE TIME CHANGING THINGS THAT ALREADY WORK AND ARE BALANCED RITO!

ZaneShadow1 votes

Umm. While you do have a point, the jungle wasn't totally okay. It was a total dredge to try and be jungler back then, according to reviews I've read and people I've asked. This helps people actually want to play jungle. Heck, it's STILL, an unloved position by players, ranking only above support in popularity. Not much competition there. So yes, a jungler can break a game. As a mid/support main, I know I have to buy a boatload of control wards or I'm in trouble. But honestly it doesn't bother me. It's part of the game I've played since starting and in my mind just another factor to consider.

Watch the mini map. Ward when possible. Don't overextend unless you have eyes on their jungler. This is Higher level league of legends.

RealČernochHours1 votes

Man I remember those times where your sup/adc denied your lvl2 because they were close to the camp while it died. Also only Redbuff giving health when smited (even though the other bonuses where cool too but made it quite hard for weak early clearers). Or where only item 1041 as a starting item existed.

Maszii2 votes

I got level 2 ganked by an Evelynn today, then she went to clear the jungle and came to me again at level 4. At that point my lane and the game was over :).

RealČernochHours2 votes

I don't even know, you can't really get a pink at the start of the game (maybe as sup) and to ward against her you need to ward her camps which needs you to push the wave in so you don't loose too much cs/xp/turret hp but that leaves you vulnerable to her.

Nameless Drifter8 votes

You have no idea how jungle works. If you try to gank top and sit there for more than 15 seconds... You are losing gold and experience and getting behind of the enemy jungler that can be preparing a gank bot or taking your jungle.

If you feel you are getting camped, just play safe, farm under the tower and try to TP bot to make plays happen. And no a enemy jungler wont be sweeping your wards or even come top if you are hugging the tower.

The jungler gets nothing other than getting behind of a failed gank attempt, stop making up lies to fit your opinion.

Maszii3 votes

You can so easy towerdive a "camped" laner. Hugging turret makes you gain no exp/cs esspecially if the other laner knows how to freeze and set up the tower dive when the wave would crash in your turret. You will be 2 levels down from exp deny and you will die.

Nameless Drifter1 votes

You just have to freeze the lane where like for an example a Nasus player would so he can safely stack. A bit forward from the turret. Its okay to lose 1 or 2 cs. And you will be like 50-100 gold behind maybe, not more than that and xp should be close.

Yes they can freeze the lane, and if they do just ask for your jungler help OR leave your lane and make a play happen somewhere around the map. Thats why you pick Teleport Top and even sometimes Mid.

Maszii4 votes

Have you ever played toplane like is described? Im just curious. Cus if you will ever walk up for CS then that semi fed laner will just bully your ass. Sure you can roam thats a fair point, but eventually you have to go back to your turret, if its still there.

Nameless Drifter1 votes

Semi fed laner? Why is he semi fed?

Look, in champion select theres 3 options: •You dont know what champion your lane opponent will pick after you already picked yours; •You know what your lane opponent picked so you pick a counter pick; •You know what your lane opponent picked but you decide to go for what champion you play better;

In the Loading screen, you have to think if you can win lane or not and if the enemy jungler is aggressive and can gank easily and what is his jungle path.

After that when you get in game, if you think you can win lane just set up a ward in the entrance of the Rift Heard and a control ward on the tribush. I can garantee you no one will sweep it the rift hearald one. Also you can ask for your jungler depending on each side you are, to destroy the blast cone.

If you think you will lose lane, just play passively, and let him push, then ask for your jungler help and get a kill or a flash! And if the opportunity occurs, TP bot. You can maybe get a First Tower blood and Drake! You may lose your Tier 1 Top tower but thats fine.

I dont think its this hard...this is a teamwork game may you like it or not. I know its frustrating getting camped but you need to understand that 1 Fed guy cant kill a organized team.

The Whamboozler8 votes

I see your point... TO a point. The ward changes were to make high level play less of a snooze-fest of everyone warding everything and no one taking risks. And it's still quite possible to punish a jungler for camping non-stop.

If the enemy lee sin is camping... say top... then the correct response it to either camp the hell out of bot or mid in response... to counter-jungle his shit... or to rally your midlaner top with you and 3v2 them, then take tower. If you outscale Lee you can even just keep farming towards your lategame where you can carry.

In my experience the most common way camping costs a team the game isn't because of the enemy jungler... but because of the reaction of the person being camped. You would be SHOCKED how often the person being camped... let's still say top... will just keep playing as they would if they were winning lane. Building mostly damage. Playing away from tower. Pushing lane out. Not buying wards or building tanky. Nothing. Now, some champs can't help this... (A camped adc kinda still has to build damage) but plenty of others can modify their strats to endure the camping and do their best to keep their CS up and to die as little as possible despite the camping. Knowing where the enemy jungler is on the map is always a huge advantage to savvy teams, so if the enemy jungler has pitched a tent near your lane, your jungler should be able to put in some work elsewhere to keep the gold even or even put you ahead.

Maszii2 votes

Let's sya i play Panth top and i get camped. Well i can build tank, but than im nothing more than a stun bot and people will often ignore me. Or i can build some damage to be somewhat relevant. If the enemy laner knows how to freeze you won't get much farm under turret and when it hit the turret you will just get dove again, well if they are really camping :).

The Whamboozler1 votes

As a panth player, I feel ya. But that's what happens when you play a hardcore lane bully who falls off. The jungler is SMART to want to curb your aggression early, leaving you to fall off a cliff late and be useless. If you're not cool with this, you might not wanna pick panth.

What you're complaining about is people playing in smart ways. If you pick panth top... ASSUME the enemy will camp you to shut you down. Go aggro when you see the jungler ganking elsewhere, and if he doesn't and sits top all game, tell your team to camp other lanes while you try not to die. Hell, you're Pantheon. Gank mid with your ult. Your kills don't have to come from your lane, after all. If they're sitting on you so that you can't 1v1 your opponent, go dive into other lanes and play like a second jungler... ganking for your team and snowballing them.

No offense man, but it sounds like you're not really playing very well if you can't think of ANY way to play the game besides "sit in lane and try to 1v1 the enemy". If all you wanna do is go stupid aggro all the time in the hopes of snowballing, might I suggest playing top Riven with summoner 14 ? Might be a better fit for you. Or pick someone that can 1v1 but doesn't fall off so hard, like Olaf or Darius .

Thilmer7 votes

Jungler is an overpowered role when it comes to carrying the game.

DoktorKaiser5 votes

Counterjungling needs to have some fucking effect again. Remember season 2? Remember what the punishment was for constantly ganking early game? Your jungle got stolen and you had nothing to farm so you were behind unless you did some actually good ganks. That is the reason why they used to drop behind, at least the main one.

Nowadays you can always find something to farm, the jungle camps spawn non-stop and give plenty of gold. I cant recall how many times I lost a buff early game to something like Ivern and was just "uhmmm well what can you do" and went on to farm and gank. I remember what my reaction used to be in season 2 : "oh fuck now I am so behind I will get fucked all game long" . This is what made jungle even more fun besides the ganking part, that pressure to control your jungle and that thrilling moment when you get invaded and there is a smite war, I was ready to fight to death for that buff. Now I hardly give a fuck any more and wouldnt dare risking my life for one lousy camp when I can farm something at any given moment.

Imo they ruined jungle the day they decided it should have the same gold income as the other laners rather than having the same (a little bit higher) gold income than support which is how it used to be long time ago.

OMGSoAnnoying2 votes

Counter jungling still has some solid effect. However, it's evolved beyond "just steal their buff if you catch it up once."

I had a game a few days ago, I saw the enemy team was setting up to steal my blue to start. My response? Fine. You get my blue and then your laners retreat, so you'll go clear your red side because you're afraid of being caught.

I stole his whole damn blue side jg -- blue buff, gromp and wolves. I then went to gank top (got FB), then cleared the rest of my jg. Even without the FB, I would have been about 300 gold and a full level ahead by the time that clear was done. I still had my wolves and gromp. Gank opportunities were low (my lanes were pushed up and I wasn't playing a diving jg) so I kept counter jungling and stealing whatever camps I could. I also had full control of all dragons and rift herald because HE kept trying to gank the pushed up lanes... and failed. By the time they surrendered I'd killed more monsters in his jg than he did, and even though my KP and KDA were not so good, I was 2k gold and 2 levels up on my counterpart. If it came to him catching me in his jg, I could have simply killed him had I wished. At that point he's lost relevancy, and I didn't have but two opportunities to gank during laning all game. Both my ganks worked (FB top, and split kills bot -- I got the adc, my adc got their support).

With the spawn timers extended on jg camps, that's why ganks are now so prevalent. If you're clearing well enough there's literally no farming to do. But if someone's camping one of your laners, you punish them by either counter ganking or making a play/invade elsewhere. If I see your jg top, that dragon is mine or your red side is. If I see him bot, woops I just soloed Rift Herald, ganked top, took his top side jg or more than one of the three.

IMO it's actually worth more to steal the smaller camps now than the buffs. Chickens is the top exp camp, krugs gives the most gold. They also spawn in half the time the buffs do.

Shadòw5 votes

with the current state of the jungle i'm actually looking forward to the annual preseason jungle update this time.

Lirik2 votes

this post in a nutshell : remember when league used to be a good game ... yeah i do .. sigh then riot destroyed it.

Magical Zoe4 votes

{quoted}

this post in a nutshell : remember when league used to be a good game ... yeah i do .. sigh then Tencent destroyed it.

ftfy

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