30 Comments
Meep Man10 votesOnly if Tanks get a modified 
please and thank you.
OtterlyLost5 votesIt'd be awful on jhin. You think he's fast now. He wouldn't even be allowed with this.
D357R0Y3R4 votesah yea the broken champ that apparently doesn't need nerfs will ruin it
damn, feelsbadman
Jerry SeinfeId2 votesit's not like he's abusing items as much as 
.... oh wait.
Meep Man2 votesAt least he's abusing ADC items only, which hardly makes it abusing. It's more like Riot forgets Jhin exists whenever they make a new item and don't do pre-emptive nerfs although its clear how insane the item is on him.
"An item that grants attack damage and attack speed? And it multiplies your attack damage while also giving tons of attack speed? Nah, couldn't be really good on anyone in particular..."
"An item that gives a free crit and movement speed if you don't attack for a while? Do we have any ADCs that specifically attack infrequently and benefit a ton from guaranteed crits? No?"
Jerry SeinfeId3 votesand ezreal "abuses" stuff meant for casters or everyone. but we all gotta give him shit for it right? There's barely been a meta where jhin didn't appear in at some point, yet we bitch about every adc but this one, just cuz he has to reload.
Riot get's accused of favouritism, but then there's the fact that boards freak out about a yi skin while he has 1 for every year he's been released while jhin got his 4th one in 2 years since release and noone cares.
I don't even dislike the champ, he's fun. But fuck this is the first time there's actually complaints about him and he has to abuse both a rune AND an item. As soon as ezreal uses an item he's abusing it.
It Hertz When IP1 votesOne difference is the core issues that lead to abuse. Jhin is designed less as a traditional AA marksman and more as a ranged AD caster. If you treat his AAs as more like a fifth ability that doesn't use mana, he makes a lot more sense. It's also easier to see the difficulty in balance issues for him with regard to items. IMHO Jhin's only real problem is that he needs the "bonus AD from AS" ratios on his passive tweaked. That and fuck .
Ezreal, meanwhile, has Q, IMO the main and possibly ONLY major issue in his kit, albeit one that is glaringly horrific in nature. Every single instance of him breaking an item or effect stems from his ability to apply on-hit effects via a long-range spammy skillshot. I believe if his Q was entirely removed or at least reworked, a lot of the balance nightmare for him would go away. Unfortunately, since it'd also change a lot of his playstyle, IDK if they'll do it.
Jerry SeinfeId1 votesIF jhin's auto's are abilities then ezreal's Q is an auto attack that can be missed and costs mana.
Ezreal's Q is literally what keeps him viable, what allows him to be an adc.
Jhin is designed less as a traditional AA marksman and more as a ranged AD caster.
Ezreal is straight up an AD mage, he does more casting than jhin. Why is it an excuse that jhin uses abilities for about 40% of his damage when Ezreal has about 80% pumped into abilities?
Jhin makes up for his reload/as by dealing around double the damage regular adc do.
There's no way ezreal is a problem champ if jhin isn't.
Meep Man1 votesEzreal abuses every new item that comes out that his Q can interact with, whether it's meant for someone like him or not. Usually when someone says "abusing an item", it's usually meant to mean that said character shouldn't be building that item and is performing well with it. Jhin using Stormrazer and Hail of Blades make 100% complete sense even if he wasn't considered powerful with them, it's just Riot forgets that Jhin exists and doesn't nerf him, so he ends up being given these insane new items that synergize with him so well that he breaks. Ezreal, on the other hand, will somehow take an item meant for Tanks or Assassins and turn it into a busted new item for him. He will take a random new item in the Jungle and turn it into an Ezreal item just because his Q can use it. The issue with Ezreal is that his Q applies both on-hit and spell effects, so any on-hit and spell effects that are "consumed" and not continuous effects like Liandry's just become broken on him... and even then sometimes those items are used by Ezreal like when he made Spirit of the Elder Lizard busted on him.
Jerry SeinfeId2 votesan ad liandry's torment that deals true damage, who woulda thought an ad poke champion would be able to use it well. It wasn't meant for him because "it's a botlane adc using the item" while ezreal is far from a classic marksman.
Him proccing both spell and onhit was only recently added.
Every item i can think of that ezreal "abused" is as obvious as jhin using stormrazor.
Heart of gold did what klepto now does for him, Runeglaive is a sheen item, IBG is a sheen item, wriggles looked like it was good on anyone bot.
how are most of those not obvious? Runeglaive the least because it was a jungle item used mid, but that was the biggest surprise about it.
MrHaZeYo2 votesThat and DFG.
Big Tiddy Fox GF1 votesThat and DFG.
Remember when they removed DFG?
Remember when Riot removed the look-alike DFG on 
's E and simply put it back this season?
DFG would just be insane on most champion, especially in this meta where everyone eats your HP bar, and would just abuse it, making her simply op.
MrHaZeYo1 votesLol, well when nostalgia plays affect to your decisions, you tend to bias drown out things like that. Ahri has always been my favorite champion, specially back then. Lets be real though, Syndra, Annie, Eve, LB, Fizz, Kat, would all benefit, not just Ahri and yes it would prolly make them all, along with a lot more mages, but it doesn't mean I miss the DFG any less :).
Also if we're speaking Ahri's kiss of death, people tend to forget that her weakest Season came in S4, the only year she had that ability. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't guttered, but she wasn't near her average power level that she has been pretty well kept at since S5. Right now she's doing above average, so yes a DFG revival would push her over the edge, it'd still be fun :).
Big Tiddy Fox GF1 votesShe's doing above average, if not more above, due to the change that she just had recently.
They simply put a free DFG back on her E, and they increased her charm's duration while she was already good enough, giving less escape window. Syndra, Annie, Eve, LB, Fizz, Katarina, and probably almost every single mage would abuse of it, but Ahri would abuse more of it, being near OP. LB already eats pretty much everyone's HP bar with just two-three spells. Syndra would one shot everyone just by stacking balls and press R on someone. Annie is already annoying with her combo, but you still can survive from it if you can right now. DFG would just give a free kill for her.
I think only Kat is fine right now.
With just a few exemple, the return of DFG would simply be unhealthly for the game, and right now, Riot is "trying" to reduce damag. So no, it isn't a good idea to put it back just for the name of "Nostalgia".
Also, don't forget that they would nerf her to the ground while DFG would be the problem.
MrHaZeYo1 votesHer Kiss of Death and DFG co-existed before, like I said during S4. Although a lot of the last two generations runes have more then made up for the damage we lost after DFG.
I'd also like to point out that I don't disagree that it shouldn't come back, I just miss it lol.
Big Tiddy Fox GF1 votesThe fact that you just miss it doesn't mean that they should add DFG back in the game.
If you just don't want to face why it was deleted and that you just want it back for the name of nostalgia, then I shouldn't waste my time explaining why. Especially that I said some example above.
MrHaZeYo1 votesYou must of missed where I said I don't disagree that it shouldn't be brought back.
If you'd really like to dive into it though, Ludans was it's replacement, and it's the item that most mages rush now, it offers 40 less AP, 10% more CDR, and AoE damage/burst.
Then if we look at the last two generations of runes that came out after it's removal, between the extra AP, %Damage, and Keystones, DFG essentially is still here. So if it was brought back (like I said I didn't disagree with you in what you said, that it'd be broken), it would really just put mages back in a spot of relevancy in a world of Ad Assassins and Bruisers. Specially since they could change the numbers of the item. 15% Max HP active that increases 10% damage that you do to that target with 80 AP and 10% CDR wouldn't hurt the game as much as you'd expect, It'd basically become a AP version of Duskblade.
Supports are also more meaningful now then they were back then, back then they were just walking ward bots, now they're pretty close to the same level as everyone else, and also have a fun new stat called Shield/Heal power to go with a Aery shield. It's a lot easier to save allys now from burst mages. Tank Supports just get Locket and Knight's and again the same thing, somewhat canceling out what burst mages can do.
AD Assassins can get Maw and or GA which both help vs Burst Mages, plus Null orb in runes is a thing. Aren't you tired of Talon, Zed, Wukong (granted he got nerfed), and Yas running around doing McDonalds numbers just by looking at people? Sure LB and Fizz do a metric crap load as AP champions, even if they built DFG, that damage wouldn't be amped by much because they have to get rid of a item in their build that's already useful. And then DFG would also help against bruisers who get that 1 MR item and just stop AP assassins and Burst Mages from tickling them while they beat your face off and there's nothing you can do.
If AD champions get a item that just blows you up in Duskblade, might as well give the AP champions theirs back, the season has already been defined by raw damage and deleting your target.
But again I said it once and I'll say it again, I never once disagreed with your statement.
I'd also like to point out, since DFG's removal we've seen nothing but nerfs to our items, even the reworks on most items nerfed them. Then when they reworked them, if they were actually good items, they got nerfed again lol. Ap champions have no QSS variant which is also shitty, cause we like AD champions also at times really need it.
Big Tiddy Fox GF1 votesYou must of missed where I said I don't disagree that it shouldn't be brought back.
But you still want it back because you miss it.
Then if we look at the last two generations of runes that came out after it's removal, between the extra AP, %Damage, and Keystones, DFG essentially is still here. So if it was brought back (like I said I didn't disagree with you in what you said, that it'd be broken), it would really just put mages back in a spot of relevancy in a world of Ad Assassins and Bruisers.
We're already trying to make Riot nerf damages on the game, the idea of adding DFG back would add another problems in the tons of problems the game actually has right now.
Specially since they could change the numbers of the item. 15% Max HP active that increases 10% damage that you do to that target with 80 AP and 10% CDR wouldn't hurt the game as much as you'd expect, It'd basically become a AP version of Duskblade.
And here's another reason why it shouldn't be in the game. If it's just to get a AP version of Duskblade, no thanks. Also, Duskblade should be completely removed from the game for the same reason than DFG. This item is simply impossible to balance.
Supports are also more meaningful now then they were back then, back then they were just walking ward bots, now they're pretty close to the same level as everyone else, and also have a fun new stat called Shield/Heal power to go with a Aery shield. It's a lot easier to save allys now from burst mages.
No. No it is not easier. If it would be easier to save allies from burst mages, it would be also easier against assassins. Right now, for both burst mages and assassins, even if there's Aery, it isn't easier to save them.
Leblanc is a good example.
Tank Supports just get Locket and Knight's and again the same thing, somewhat canceling out what burst mages can do.
Except Thresh or Braum, I don't see who.
AD Assassins can get Maw and or GA which both help vs Burst Mages, plus Null orb in runes is a thing.
And here we're talking about defense stats. If AP assassins/mages had the exact AP version of Maw and could use GA, it would be exactly the same. Null Orb is a thing that everyone can use it, not only ADs. Also, mages has Zhonya, if used well.
Aren't you tired of Talon, Zed, Wukong (granted he got nerfed), and Yas running around doing McDonalds numbers just by looking at people?
Yasuo is another case, since that he only uses crits. Talon and Zed are ruling over midlane for a while, this isn't a surprise. Wukong has been nerfed because of items that he actually uses, which is Stormrazor and, of course, Duskblade. Before that, he was fine.
Sure LB and Fizz do a metric crap load as AP champions, even if they built DFG, that damage wouldn't be amped by much because they have to get rid of a item in their build that's already useful.
Remember that DFG got removed because it was used to delete everyone.
And then DFG would also help against bruisers who get that 1 MR item and just stop AP assassins and Burst Mages from tickling them while they beat your face off and there's nothing you can do.
It was originally used against Bruiser and Tank, so that AP assassins/mages could deal more damage to them. But again, squishies were more affected.
If AD champions get a item that just blows you up in Duskblade, might as well give the AP champions theirs back, the season has already been defined by raw damage and deleting your target.
I'll say it again: Duskblade is like DFG: a big failure that is unhealthy. Duskblade is the one of the reasons why assassins are oneshotting everyone, and should be removed from the game.
I'd also like to point out, since DFG's removal we've seen nothing but nerfs to our items, even the reworks on most items nerfed them. Then when they reworked them, if they were actually good items, they got nerfed again lol. Ap champions have no QSS variant which is also shitty, cause we like AD champions also at times really need it.
Yeah, mages and AP assassins aren't in a good spot due to item nerf cough 
cough
MrHaZeYo1 votesBut you still want it back because you miss it.
Wanting something back doesn't mean I think it should be back lol. It's like wanting a ex gf back, but you know you should never get back with her.
We're already trying to make Riot nerf damages on the game, the idea of adding DFG back would add another problems in the tons of problems the game actually has right now.
I'll believe it when I see it. People will always complain, you can't please everyone. Personally I enjoy the ADC/Tank/Mage metas, but I'm also not complaining about the damage/assassin meta either.
No. No it is not easier. If it would be easier to save allies from burst mages, it would be also easier against assassins. Right now, for both burst mages and assassins, even if there's Aery, it isn't easier to save them.
Leblanc is a good example.
Actually, yes it is far easier now then it was back in S4 and before, because supports actually have better itemization and gold income. We don't see Enchaters much because for most the year Marksman didn't even have a home on the rift.
It's really not that hard to save teammates vs LB either, Deathballing makes it harder for her to get single target and like I said Shields, Locket, Knights, Redemption all help protect your carry.
Except Thresh or Braum, I don't see who.
All can easily build Locket and Knights.
And here we're talking about defense stats. If AP assassins/mages had the exact AP version of Maw and could use GA, it would be exactly the same. Null Orb is a thing that everyone can use it, not only ADs. Also, mages has Zhonya, if used well.
As far as Maw and Null Orb, Mages need the same thing but flipped. Physical damage shields.
Zhonyas and GA are similar and different. I'm fine with Mages not having GA, as we have Zhonyas.
Yasuo is another case, since that he only uses crits. Talon and Zed are ruling over midlane for a while, this isn't a surprise. Wukong has been nerfed because of items that he actually uses, which is Stormrazor and, of course, Duskblade. Before that, he was fine.
LB and Ahri really just took a spot in the top T3 champions. Talon has lived at the #1 spot of T1 mid and top all year, while Zed and Yas have spent a good portion of their time in the top 3 T3 spots. A lot of Ahri and LB's power came from the damage and CD reduction of Elec, they want to do trades early until they have the power to all. Talon wants to all in you at Lv2, fair.
Wukong's Leth build has been running rampant for a couple years and has been stupid annoying, it really just became stupid popular this year.
Remember that DFG got removed because it was used to delete everyone.
It again got removed in a era where it was the solo laners who ruled the game, all 5 roles have all evolved a lot since then and the Solo Laners are on more even footing with the others, and again, supports have more resources to help cancel out the burst.
People still get deleted off the map, it wasn't just DFG.
It was originally used against Bruiser and Tank, so that AP assassins/mages could deal more damage to them. But again, squishies were more affected.
So was Crit.
I'll say it again: Duskblade is like DFG: a big failure that is unhealthy. Duskblade is the one of the reasons why assassins are oneshotting everyone, and should be removed from the game.
I wouldn't mind seeing it removed, but I doubt it'll happen in the near future.
Yeah, mages and AP assassins aren't in a good spot due to item nerf cough
Fizz was overbuffed. LB was actually doing average up until this patch. Ahri is primarily a Mage with assassin tenancies. Similar to how Vayne or Twitch are Marksman with assassin tenancies.
Again. The point of this was a item that I personally would like to see back or miss, whatever. I don't expect and am not going to really advocate it's return.
As far as Ahri? I'd gladly revert her to her season 3 kit. (Pre Kiss of Death, when her Fox Fire didn't have that stupid damage reduction built in).
Ranmaru1 votesLol, well when nostalgia plays affect to your decisions, you tend to bias drown out things like that. Ahri has always been my favorite champion, specially back then. Lets be real though, Syndra, Annie, Eve, LB, Fizz, Kat, would all benefit, not just Ahri and yes it would prolly make them all, along with a lot more mages, but it doesn't mean I miss the DFG any less :).
Also if we're speaking Ahri's kiss of death, people tend to forget that her weakest Season came in S4, the only year she had that ability. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't guttered, but she wasn't near her average power level that she has been pretty well kept at since S5. Right now she's doing above average, so yes a DFG revival would push her over the edge, it'd still be fun :).
Except syndra was actually terrible on release because they kept building dfg... And annie with dfg would suck she would have no survivability and ahri is already op
MrHaZeYo1 votesI disagree, I'm not saying DFG was optimal on either Syn or Annie, but it was always a fun item to build, never rush it or anything but 2nd or 3rd item it and it was a lot of fun. I rarely build RoA on Annie either, I generally still build straight into Ludens, specially since back then most mages didn't go Liandyrs/Morello 2nd (Mage Pen) like they do now.
As far as Ahri, there's a fine line between OP and Strong, I think she gravitates to strong and not OP.
Ranmaru1 votesI disagree, I'm not saying DFG was optimal on either Syn or Annie, but it was always a fun item to build, never rush it or anything but 2nd or 3rd item it and it was a lot of fun. I rarely build RoA on Annie either, I generally still build straight into Ludens, specially since back then most mages didn't go Liandyrs/Morello 2nd (Mage Pen) like they do now.
As far as Ahri, there's a fine line between OP and Strong, I think she gravitates to strong and not OP.
52.17% 11.95% on op.gg and leaugeofgraphs has her at 13.0% 53.5% Im pretty sure that gravitates to OP but since its ahri she cant be op... right???
Daddy Ants1 votesRemember when they removed DFG? Remember when Riot removed the look-alike DFG on
That's why he wants DFG back.
He's an Ahri main...
Big Tiddy Fox GF1 votesI'm a Ahri main as well, I just think that putting DFG back on League is insanely dumb. Ahri is good where she is, if not too good. Her E is too powerful now, with the mini-DFG in it and the charm duration buff, it's simply ridiculous.
But he want DFG back just for the name of nostalgia.
Daddy Ants1 votesI'm a Ahri main as well, I just think that putting DFG back on League is insanely dumb. Ahri is good where she is, if not too good. Her E is too powerful now, with the mini-DFG in it and the charm duration buff, it's simply ridiculous.
But he want DFG back just for the name of nostalgia.
Ahri is a little too good right now.
Daddy Ants1 votesThat and DFG.
DFG shouldn't come anywhere near Summoner's rift.
Fízz v22 votesand tricksters glass PogChamp
deadlychuck2 votesIt was really the only effective way to negate really hard CC champions tbh.
Overall they need more tenacity and it would help
7thHeaven2 votes
+ 
. No thx
Arcanine191 votesYes. I wanna play udyr with this item again
More from Gameplay
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes
More by D357R0Y3R
Riot's philosophy finally turned the game into dogshit after so much years
Gameplay256 comments
357
votes
on PBE right now a full Ornn combo deals 73% max hp damage
Gameplay199 comments
141
votes
Warmog passive should not be disabled by minions
Gameplay49 comments
127
votes
Ahri 54.5% win rate now
Gameplay214 comments
124
votes
PLEASE NERF JHIN
Gameplay106 comments
122
votes
I love it when Maple Nectar talks about Kai'sa
Gameplay236 comments
116
votes