So....what's happening with Aatrox?

Śhunpo·May 27, 2019·14 votes·9,247 views

I get it, he's fun now. However, that's no excuse for him being so naturally tanky and being an absolute monster in terms of damage. He hits you once and it's like you got hit with a freight train running at 260km/h.

At first I thought he was semi-balanced, but that was only when playing him. On the flip side it just feels like the champ is too good all round and overperforms not just in his niche, but the entirety of the juggernaut archetype.

Grevious Wounds seem to do nothing to him since he heals for at least 400 from passive at one item THROUGH Grevious Wounds, and to top it all off that passive just hurts hella hard. Then you have his base stats which are actually pretty solid right now compared to Aatrox 3.0. He just feels beefy even when he's not healing, as if my damage doesn't really seem to hurt him what-so-ever. Seriously, I've played Rengar, Fiora, Camille, Yorick, Darius, Olaf, Kennen, Akali, Kat, Voli, Udyr, Irelia and Gragas into him, and yet I just don't seem to hurt him. Even if I do all it takes is for him to get level 6 and Black Cleaver, and oh, what's this? He's back to being uncanny levels of beefy.

I wouldn't be complaining.....except for the fact that even Silver Aatrox players are beating players much higher than they are, simply due to the champion. If that doesn't imply that the champ is broken right now I don't know what does.

With all that said, he's close to being balanced, just tone down his base stats, tone down his passive's damage+healing, slightly reduce Q's AD scaling and slightly reduce the % healing amp on his ult.

35 Comments

XJ99999999999999May 27, 201914 votes

so lets nerf everything about him? lol

the only thing they should do is make his ult only increase heals from aatrox, not other sources (soraka heals).

Teriyaki BukkakeMay 27, 20194 votes

I've caught him healing for 460 damage off his q, when he had a spirit visage and a deaths dance.

If you can heal that much from one ability, which you can land three times, then yeah, there is an issue.

The buffs put him in a good spot, but they've enabled him to heal for pretty stupid amounts and doesn't really have a penalty as he gets cdr from his core items, he gets tankiness super easily with his build + R, he heals more than every other champ in the game for one damage ability hit, no mana costs.

Like hes a monster yeah, and thats good, but the healing factor is a huge issue, and makes the kit way too overbearing.

NyarlathοtepMay 27, 20195 votes

f you can heal that much from one ability, which you can land three times, then yeah, there is an issue.

If you cant avoid them then its your fault. Unless you are cced you shouldnt get hit by all 3 of them.

he heals more than every other champ in the game for one damage ability hit

Vlad would like to know your location. And unlike vlad, you can deny aatrox's heal by not getting hit by it.

Like hes a monster yeah, and thats good, but the healing factor is a huge issue, and makes the kit way too overbearing.

Just teamfight. Aatrox's kit doesnt function that well in teamfights. His biggest asset in teamfights is his reset. If he doesnt get a single one he is literally worthless.

Probably HumanMay 27, 20191 votes

So your suggestion is... Group into the large aoe damage that Aatrox's E healing isn't reduced by? As an aatrox player with his new update I can say I PREFER to teamfight than skirmish now. Your suggestion is based off the fact that aatrox can't play their champ. Which if they can then they will hit those Qs which will heal and will do insane damage.

Teriyaki BukkakeMay 27, 20191 votes

"If you cant avoid them then its your fault. Unless you are cced you shouldnt get hit by all 3 of them.

That's as dumb as the "just CC [X] champion to counter them"

"Vlad would like to know your location. And unlike vlad, you can deny aatrox's heal by not getting hit by it."

okay thats a good point

"Just teamfight. Aatrox's kit doesnt function that well in teamfights. His biggest asset in teamfights is his reset. If he doesnt get a single one he is literally worthless."

Your perception of aatrox being easy to kill atm is pretty worrying, but I understand your points

NyarlathοtepMay 27, 20193 votes

That's as dumb as the "just CC [X] champion to counter them"

How is it dumb? Stuff that are avoidable have the counterplay of evading them to negate them. Its like calling xerath's counterplay dumb. You evade when possible.

Your perception of aatrox being easy to kill atm is pretty worrying, but I understand your points

If he gets focused he dies. If a tank that has a lot of resistances can fall, so will someone that has less resistances. His healing wont matter as long as he doesnt reach squishy targets.

Teriyaki BukkakeMay 27, 20191 votes

"How is it dumb? Stuff that are avoidable have the counterplay of evading them to negate them. Its like calling xerath's counterplay dumb. You evade when possible. Because some champs have to get into melee range to do anything?... Because his q is a huge AoE strike?... Of course there is counterplay in the form of dodging it, but that doesnt just mean all of a sudden that there are no problems with the champion. Applying your logic lux should have a 0% winrate because bro, you can just dodge all of her abilities, it's all gucci dude just dodge it. The issue isn't that there's no counter play, the issue is that the champ heals too much when he hits his abilities. And saying "just dodge it" doesn't mean aatrox isn't too strong right now, nor does it justify the position hes in.

"If he gets focused he dies. If a tank that has a lot of resistances can fall, so will someone that has less resistances. His healing wont matter as long as he doesnt reach squishy targets." But thats how... that's exactly how hes winning fights.... this is the exact reason this conversation is taking place... He builds a deaths dance and a spirit visage and he heals nearly 500 on each q... so in just about 2 seconds he can regain potentially 1400 hp... So when you focus him and don't kill him because he heals so much off your front line then their team melts your tanks because they cant heal 1500hp in 2 seconds and you lose the fight. Thats the issue. He heals way too much and he wins team fights off his healing. A little bit dumbfounded right now by you trying to say that this is all very simple.

Like no offence but everything you're saying is very basic and naive. You're just saying the whole situation is just 1+1=2 when it's much more complicated than that.

Like do you see how your reasoning doesn't mean anything? It's basically just "You lost the game? Well win next time." You aren't addressing anything that I said in my original comment, and you're replying to everything else with "just do x and you beat him" which isn't even the case.

NyarlathοtepMay 27, 20192 votes

Because some champs have to get into melee range to do anything?... Because his q is a huge AoE strike?...

Almost all melee's nowadays have either a dash and/or blink or survivability and/or speedboosts to reach their targets.

The issue isn't that there's no counter play, the issue is that the champ heals too much when he hits his abilities

I mean thats his niche. Drain tank. And considering how telegraphed his q is, its only appropriete that the damage and heal are equally strong.

He builds a deaths dance and a spirit visage and he heals nearly 500 on each q... so in just about 2 seconds he can regain potentially 1400 hp

Thats weird. I tried playing aatrox a while ago (with the recent change) but guess what. I didnt heal for that much despite building lifesteal stuff. And the times that i did heal for shittons, it was when the game was already decided. Or when i was hitting low armour targets. When i was dealing with stuff that have armour i healed for extremely less.

Teriyaki BukkakeMay 28, 20191 votes

"Almost all melee's nowadays have either a dash and/or blink or survivability and/or speedboosts to reach their targets." Again, your logic is X doesnt matter because x. Which is false

"I mean thats his niche. Drain tank. And considering how telegraphed his q is, its only appropriete that the damage and heal are equally strong." That's not how balancing works kiddo I know you live in this land of hypotheticals, but that doesn't translate to in game, or even reality for that matter

"Thats weird. I tried playing aatrox a while ago (with the recent change) but guess what. I didnt heal for that much despite building lifesteal stuff. And the times that i did heal for shittons, it was when the game was already decided." Why would you build lifesteal on aatrox - a caster based melee bruiser.. But that's the issue oh my god you just do not get it. You are literally incapable of getting it. I can't be bothered trying to explain to you why and how his healing is too strong because you literally trying to ignore any small amount of basic logic here.

Hopefully you never get put on the balance team, because you've got some CertainlyT inspired reasoning and it's worrying

adios

NyarlathοtepMay 28, 2019

Again, your logic is X doesnt matter because x. Which is false

But it is correct. You are saying that its unfair that his q1 is ranged (or something along the lines of "Because some champs have to get into melee range to do anything"), and im saying to you that being ranged means close to nothing when everybody has tools to bypass it (especially when that range is only present at q1, besides that he is a melee champ).

That's not how balancing works kiddo

Well apparently thats how it is. Just look at yasuo. He is a living nightmare because of his e and w. Yet there he stands still with these tools. Besides i repeat, CONSIDERING HOW TELEGRAPHED HIS Q IS ITS ONLY NATURAL TO HAVE HIGH DAMAGE. Its a shitty philosophy , dont get me wrong but it is what it is (a skillshot so slow that you could eat meal and it would still need time to land, but it can 1 shot you should it touch you).

Why would you build lifesteal on aatrox - a caster based melee bruiser..

facepalm. Lifesteal isnt restricted to auto attacking. It counts as lifestealing when you cast abilities. You are healing through damage.

Hopefully you never get put on the balance team, because you've got some CertainlyT inspired reasoning

Did i insult you? No. I didnt. Why did you insult me? Dont make me report it. Oke im just joking but seriously now i hate CT with burning passion. I mean my most banned champ is literally yasuo.

But while we are on the topic of the balance team and while i would love to start arguing whether you or me would be better for balance team i gotta ask, how would you balance aatrox.

Teriyaki BukkakeMay 29, 20191 votes

Reading over your comment shows you aren't even talking about what im talking about here The healing is the problem, not the damage. The damage is justified within his kit. life steal does NOT APPLY on abilities: I am talking about his self healing mixed with spirit visage and deaths dance - a mixture of vamp and natural ability healing - not lifesteal, which comes close to 100% spell vamp which is just straight up overtuned.

Also, no, it isn't correct at all. Fizz at one point was way too safe a pick because his r latched on regardless of if it hit or not. Now, you can buy a sash, you can even buy zhoniyas, or try to counter pick - and fizz has some incredibly strong counterpicking potential. Those are all valid forms of counterplay. But guess what, the ulti got changed because it was too overbearingly strong: just like how aatroxs heal is right now. Counterplay =/= balance Trying to justify somethings strength because "you can dodge it" is again, logical fallacy. The majority of things in the game are in fact, dodge-able. That's not how you balance things at all. Using yasuo as an example also proves my point, because his kit IS overbearing, it IS overpowered, and the overwhelming majority of the playerbase acknowledges that his kit is overtuned, and needs reworking or nerfing, whatever that may be. Saying that because riot doesn't balance something means its balanced is also false. There are hundreds of examples of riot being wrong on balance in the past year, and plenty more example of Riots inaction on specific things, from essence reaver being completely ruined for patches on end, to the entire ADC item rework. People know that the buffs for aatrox are good, im not disputing that his buffs are good for him; I think they put him in a great spot balance wise, but his heals are too strong.

How I would balance aatrox? Well currently he achieves 100% vamp from basically his e passive, spirit visage, and deaths dance (both which are pretty core items, apart from visage) With 70% healing at rank 16 which quite frankly is just stupid. After the 25% increase from ravenous hunter, and the 30% boost on all healing from spirit, he heals for 100% of his damage dealt. That just isn't okay. There needs to be a way to gut his healing without drastically gutting his core focus of being in the middle of a fight. if he's always going to build deaths dance as a core item, maybe take away some of his passive healing. I Can only suggest things that MIGHT work, but again, I don't playtest for riot, nor do I have the time or resources to figure out a healthier amount of healing, but I reckon the best bet to reel back his healing would be lower his % healing from damage on his R, and slightly lower his E passive healing. Take it down by 5% on his E passive so he only gets 25% natural healing instead of 30% at max rank, and then lower his R passive healing by 0/5%/10%, leaving him with 40%/50%/60% healing at ranks 6/11/16.

There are many ways to go about nerfing his healing, but I don't want his damage to take a hit from that because hes in a pretty perfect spot at the moment damage wise.

Oh and dw, id rather have you on the balance team over CertainlyT anyday LMAO Keep those yasuo bans goin, we need soldiers like you

NyarlathοtepMay 29, 20191 votes

life steal does NOT APPLY on abilities

Well shit. I thought the meaning of lifesteal had changed since the removal of spell vamp.

to 100% spell vamp which is just straight up overtuned.

Well technically its not spell vamp. Its omnivamp. Since he heals off from both aa and spells for both ap and ad damage.

Using yasuo as an example also proves my point, because his kit IS overbearing, it IS overpowered, and the overwhelming majority of the playerbase acknowledges that his kit is overtuned, and needs reworking or nerfing, whatever that may be. Saying that because riot doesn't balance something means its balanced is also false.

Well true. I just used him just because riot doesnt do anything. Well all know he is in need of a big change. Yet riot doesnt do anything. One can only guess that that is riot's new philosophy. Dont nerf the unique aspects of a champ even if they are problematic because of it. Like akali and her toxic ass shroud. I mean if riot is going to nerf aatrox's high sustain because its obnoxious, then i demand to do it on akali, yasuo, riven and jax too.

After the 25% increase from ravenous hunter

Im not following you there. Ravenous hunter at max stacks grants 14%.

Take it down by 5% on his E passive so he only gets 25% natural healing instead of 30% at max rank, and then lower his R passive healing by 0/5%/10%, leaving him with 40%/50%/60% healing at ranks 6/11/16.

Thats actually a fairly good suggestion. Although wont this affect him a little? I mean is this going to be enough to tone him down from overbearing to managable?

Keep those yasuo bans goin,

You bet i will. Unless riot straight up makes him less obnoxious to face, he will still remain in my perma ban list. Although whenever i want to play aatrox i feel i have to ban either fiora or riven because they are so damn strong vs him. Im so titled by them that for the first time in my life i went to watch high elo game of aatrox vs riven/fiora. The 2 i found where extremely similar. Both riven and irelia were a bit weird. Irelia started with e and was extremely passive for the most time (compared to my experience where they are ultra aggressive) and riven had fleetwork (and was passive too).

Teriyaki BukkakeMay 30, 20191 votes

"Im not following you there. Ravenous hunter at max stacks grants 14%." Oh crap, that's a change I never paid attention to...

"Although wont this affect him a little?" I mean yeah, it is a small change, but I don't know how else to target his healing potential. And like I wouldn't want to gut aatrox too much, because hes been useless for years on end, so I kind of want him to have a use.

Do you just not think his healing is too much? Or do you think hes perfect in the spot hes in right now

NyarlathοtepMay 30, 2019

To be completely honest i havent faced too much aatrox to eactly know how from the opponent's prespective is. And the 2 times that i did one we lost but couldnt really see aatrox healing that much, and the other we won and aatrox couldnt do shit. However based on what i have seen through playing him i believe he is in a perfect spot. Although i would prefer if he could someway to increase the animations of his q (late game). Or change the healing from how much damage he deals to missing hp or something. It feels awful to have to build damage to lifesteal and be melee. Since you have to target squishy targets to heal a lot. Aatrox cant really bypass the frontline so he is stuck with attacking armoured targets. Other juggernauts heal based on hp. Illaoi, darius, udyr, volibear, new morde, nasus, mundo, trundle, yorick and lastly urgot (although he doesnt have heal, he relies on a shield).

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

so lets nerf everything about him? lol

the only thing they should do is make his ult only increase heals from aatrox, not other sources (soraka heals).

SLIGHTLY nerf everything, so that he's in line with other juggernauts/drain tanks. Don't gut him, just adjust his numbers some more to be more reasonable.

RagnaveilMay 27, 20192 votes

But hes the only drain tank that kinda exists. Vlad's an abomination, and shall be named so. If you slightly nerf everything, then every fighter and their mother will be better than him INSTANTLY. The heal amp can simply work on his healing, and that is it.

AnaphielMay 27, 20193 votes

History repeats itself with Aatrox.

Old Aatrox was an unkillable draintanking monster when his numbers were even slightly high, so they iceboxed the poor dude.

New Aatrox looks to be going the same way. RIP

NyarlathοtepMay 27, 20192 votes

However, that's no excuse for him being so naturally tanky and being an absolute monster in terms of damage

Just like darius. And voli. And yorick. And illaoi.

Grevious Wounds seem to do nothing to him since he heals for at least 400 from passive at one item THROUGH Grevious Wounds

Thats impossible. 400 with his passive? Was he hitting a training dummy or something? In order for his passive to heal that much his target must have 1) high hp 2) no armour at all and 3) aatrox to have lethality.

and to top it all off that passive just hurts hella hard.

12%? Excuse me? I mean if you are a beefy target with no armour whatsoever it will hit hard but otherwise it wont. At best this hits for 10% give or take because of the resistances.

Seriously, I've played Rengar, Fiora, Camille, Yorick, Darius, Olaf, Kennen, Akali, Kat, Voli, Udyr, Irelia and Gragas into him, and yet I just don't seem to hurt him

Rengar shits on aatrox at the first couple levels. If he managed to get a kill off aatrox he will snowball hard.
Fiora bends aatrox hard. Aatrox has no tools whatsoever to deal with her. She can heal, dash, deal high damage (true btw) and parry his only source of damage and stun.
Camille can stand up just fine to him. Her mobility just screws aatrox q so damn hard. Her true damage makes sure that aatrox will die to her.
Darius is a volatile match. If aatrox gets ahead darius is screwed. If darius gets ahead aatrox is screwed. Olaf shits on aatrox. Aatrox's kit just cant faced tank an olaf. He lifesteals a lot more during the laning phase because of the atk speed he gets.
Akali SHOULDNT be able to hurt him btw. Assassins should lose vs juggernauts. Same deal with kata. Udyr is a jungler. No wonder he cant lane vs aatrox. Irelia vs aatrox is a skill match with a small advantage to irelia thanks to her mobility and w.

With all that said, he's close to being balanced, just tone down his base stats, tone down his passive's damage+healing, slightly reduce Q's AD scaling and slightly reduce the % healing amp on his ult.

Oh basically gut him once again. GREAT. Are you crazy? He needs base stats because, well he has to win early on because when teamfights roll he will get stunlocked to death.

You cant nerf his passive because he already pays it with one of the lowest hp regen in the game (0.6 hp per sec).

Reduce ratio? What the actual fuck. That shit needs to hit hard because of how telegraphed it is. You have 0.7 or so to react.

As for the healing amp just make it that it works on his own heal. No need to destroy his most fun part.

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Just like darius. And voli. And yorick. And illaoi.

Thats impossible. 400 with his passive? Was he hitting a training dummy or something? In order for his passive to heal that much his target must have 1) high hp 2) no armour at all and 3) aatrox to have lethality.

12%? Excuse me? I mean if you are a beefy target with no armour whatsoever it will hit hard but otherwise it wont. At best this hits for 10% give or take because of the resistances.

Rengar shits on aatrox at the first couple levels. If he managed to get a kill off aatrox he will snowball hard.
Fiora bends aatrox hard. Aatrox has no tools whatsoever to deal with her. She can heal, dash, deal high damage (true btw) and parry his only source of damage and stun.
Camille can stand up just fine to him. Her mobility just screws aatrox q so damn hard. Her true damage makes sure that aatrox will die to her.
Darius is a volatile match. If aatrox gets ahead darius is screwed. If darius gets ahead aatrox is screwed. Olaf shits on aatrox. Aatrox's kit just cant faced tank an olaf. He lifesteals a lot more during the laning phase because of the atk speed he gets.
Akali SHOULDNT be able to hurt him btw. Assassins should lose vs juggernauts. Same deal with kata. Udyr is a jungler. No wonder he cant lane vs aatrox. Irelia vs aatrox is a skill match with a small advantage to irelia thanks to her mobility and w.

Oh basically gut him once again. GREAT. Are you crazy? He needs base stats because, well he has to win early on because when teamfights roll he will get stunlocked to death.

You cant nerf his passive because he already pays it with one of the lowest hp regen in the game (0.6 hp per sec).

Reduce ratio? What the actual fuck. That shit needs to hit hard because of how telegraphed it is. You have 0.7 or so to react.

As for the healing amp just make it that it works on his own heal. No need to destroy his most fun part.

Just like darius. And voli. And yorick. And illaoi.

Darius isn't a champion I'm defending. Volibear is just a mess of a champion right. Yorick is just Conqueror the champion. Illaoi is the same as Darius, I'm not defending her in any way.

My point being, they're horrible comparisons.

Thats impossible. 400 with his passive? Was he hitting a training dummy or something? In order for his passive to heal that much his target must have 1) high hp 2) no armour at all and 3) aatrox to have lethality.

Conqueror+Taste of Blood+Ravenous Hunter+D.blade+Vamp Scepter should be enough for it to heal for 400. Oh, and then his ult healing amp as well. Now that I think about it there's far too many accessible options for bonus healing from runes, yet another example of the new runes being obnoxious.

12%? Excuse me? I mean if you are a beefy target with no armour whatsoever it will hit hard but otherwise it wont. At best this hits for 10% give or take because of the resistances.

That's a lot of damage lmao. Oh, and that passive is usually up 2-3 times a fight, so yes, it adds up.

Rengar shits on aatrox at the first couple levels. If he managed to get a kill off aatrox he will snowball hard. Fiora bends aatrox hard. Aatrox has no tools whatsoever to deal with her. She can heal, dash, deal high damage (true btw) and parry his only source of damage and stun. Camille can stand up just fine to him. Her mobility just screws aatrox q so damn hard. Her true damage makes sure that aatrox will die to her. Darius is a volatile match. If aatrox gets ahead darius is screwed. If darius gets ahead aatrox is screwed. Olaf shits on aatrox. Aatrox's kit just cant faced tank an olaf. He lifesteals a lot more during the laning phase because of the atk speed he gets. Akali SHOULDNT be able to hurt him btw. Assassins should lose vs juggernauts. Same deal with kata. Udyr is a jungler. No wonder he cant lane vs aatrox. Irelia vs aatrox is a skill match with a small advantage to irelia thanks to her mobility and w.

Rengar I can agree with, but you lose outside of lane SUPER hard.

I've tried Fiora into Aatrox just recently and it just seems like Aatrox beats her by abusing passive and just ignoring Parry entirely since it does nothing as Aatrox has 3 Qs, not just a single Q like most champs.

Camille I can sort of agree with, but again, similar to Rengar, you lose outside of lane SUPER hard.

Darius just gets boned by Aatrox since the jungler almost always gets involved and dumpsters Darius.

Olaf loses in lane if the Aatrox even has half a brain. He wins outside of laning though.

Assassins should lose vs juggernauts? I can't disagree, but still, there should be more interactivity. Right now Aatrox just doesn't take any damage from either of them due to his natural beefiness. Although in this case I suppose that's fine?

Udyr is not just a jungler, he's also a top laner.

I used to think Irelia beat Aatrox, but now it just feels like Aatrox wins so long as he doesn't screw up at levels 1-2 and level 6. That said, Irelia is close to the best champ to beat Aatrox with (Kennen being the single best).

Oh basically gut him once again. GREAT. Are you crazy? He needs base stats because, well he has to win early on because when teamfights roll he will get stunlocked to death.

That's not gutting him, a slight tone down to his base HP and armour wouldn't make him useless.

You cant nerf his passive because he already pays it with one of the lowest hp regen in the game (0.6 hp per sec).

Which you can work around by running ANY or all of the available healing options in runes. Oh, and D.shield if you really want to.

Reduce ratio? What the actual fuck. That shit needs to hit hard because of how telegraphed it is. You have 0.7 or so to react.

He has his E for repositioning and a W that is guaranteed when even a single Q hits, it'd be fine if his Qs did just a lil less damage.

As for the healing amp just make it that it works on his own heal. No need to destroy his most fun part.

Just make his heal amp 40%/50%/60% respectively for his ult. 55% and 70% is just overkill. Also yeah, make it only amplify his own healing, I'm sick of other healing sources making him nye-unkillable (looking at you Yuumi and Soraka).

NyarlathοtepMay 28, 2019

Conqueror+Taste of Blood+Ravenous Hunter+D.blade+Vamp Scepter should be enough for it to heal for 400. Oh, and then his ult healing amp as well. Now that I think about it there's far too many accessible options for bonus healing from runes, yet another example of the new runes being obnoxious.

Hmm lets check the numbers, Aatrox 300 ad with conq, ravenous, death dancer and his ulti (a quick small note, aatrox is ad caster meaning he doesnt get to aa that much. He doesnt make full use of aa-centric items because he relies on his q to deal damage) his q3 (sweetspot) will heal for 834. Now applying GW that heal ends up 501. However this number right here is for targets that have no armour whatsoever. The heal will be all around lower if the target has armour. Late game where they will have the damage reduction the heal should be less. Assuming its a tank you can expect a damage reduction of 75% at the very least. Yes the tank will eventually get his armour lowered but still. The heal wont be 501. I imagine it will be around 300.

However by the time he is going to heal all that, the adc will have reached (or reaching) late game. Where his basic attacks hit like a truck. Then there is also the fact that all 3 q have long animations and only 3rd q will hit heal for that much (assuming the sweetspot connects). So all in all, its not as oppressive as you say. At least in the grand scheme of all.

Rengar I can agree with, but you lose outside of lane SUPER hard.

Eh it depends on rengar. If he gets ahead he can snowball to other lanes extremely fast.

I've tried Fiora into Aatrox just recently and it just seems like Aatrox beats her by abusing passive and just ignoring Parry entirely since it does nothing as Aatrox has 3 Qs, not just a single Q like most champs.

Weird when i laned vs fiora i got my ass hard kicked because i couldnt do shit. Q? Dash or even riposte it. Aa? She will outdamage you if you dont q plus her riposte also cripples. And i wonder how he won. I mean his q unless you hit sweetspot is extremely tame number wise.

Camille I can sort of agree with, but again, similar to Rengar, you lose outside of lane SUPER hard.

I wanted to say a counterarguement but i havent faced a camille for a while (my last one doesnt count).

Darius just gets boned by Aatrox since the jungler almost always gets involved and dumpsters Darius.

In that case its not aatrox being strong or not.

Olaf loses in lane if the Aatrox even has half a brain. He wins outside of laning though.

No he doesnt. All that free atk speed in conjuction with his lifesteal that he gets makes him extremely durable. Aatrox cant kill him when his w is up. On the contrary the moment he lands his 3rd q is where aatrox has to start running. With no q aatrox cant remain in melee vs olaf.

Udyr is not just a jungler, he's also a top laner.

Well primarly he is a jungler. But anyways, the one time i faced udyr at top, he felt too squishy to be able to endure the laning phase against aatrox.

I used to think Irelia beat Aatrox, but now it just feels like Aatrox wins so long as he doesn't screw up at levels 1-2 and level 6

Its a skill match up. Although at lvl 6 irelia gains a huge powerspike.

That's not gutting him, a slight tone down to his base HP and armour wouldn't make him useless.

Champs that rely on early to mid game (and where they peak) are extremely affected by base stat changes.

Which you can work around by running ANY or all of the available healing options in runes. Oh, and D.shield if you really want to.

They need damage mate. Early on he doesnt have that much.

He has his E for repositioning and a W that is guaranteed when even a single Q hits, it'd be fine if his Qs did just a lil less damage.

During the laning phase w has huge cd. And his e helps with one q until late game. If you cant avoid a slow q when you arent affected by a slow then i dont know how you can improve.

The thigh guyMay 27, 20192 votes

Extremely simple solution. 2 of them actually. Buy grevious wounds. Or/and take ignite.

Healing problem solved. Oh. And don’t kill him when he has his revive up. Wait til it falls off.

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HEbU2Vbc,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-27T08:55:37.613+0000)

Extremely simple solution. 2 of them actually. Buy grevious wounds. Or/and take ignite.

Healing problem solved. Oh. And don’t kill him when he has his revive up. Wait til it falls off.

Grevious Wounds simply doesn't solve the healing problem as he heals excessively. By applying Grevious Wounds to Aatrox atm he still has enough healing to sustain himself through a fight.

AbandonMay 27, 20192 votes

You're not wrong. It's interesting because I always find myself too busy or not really feeling like playing league when my champion is broken lol. I didn't abuse Aatrox during Conq + Rageblade days and I don't abuse him now when he's obviously overtuned. 100% he's going to get nerfed.

TargonMay 27, 20192 votes

Personally, I think that Aatrox heals way too much, and that's largely due to having healing from his passive, passive on E, and passive on ultimate, alongside with synergy with conqueror, ravenous hunter, item 3812 , and item 3065 . And if he gets a kill during his ultimate, good luck killing him twice (or even 3 times if he has a Guardian Angel).

XedlordMay 27, 20191 votes

Idrk what to say, try Garen? That usually works for me.

ORB1TSMay 27, 20191 votes

he went from a 47 wr to a 52 lmao.

MoonscourgeMay 27, 20191 votes

They just need to reduce his healing now. Already confirmed no nerfs next patch however, but they are monitoring and he seems a tad on the strong side.

NyarlathοtepMay 27, 20191 votes

So your suggestion is... Group into the large aoe damage that Aatrox's E healing isn't reduced by?

Wat. When did i say to walk into his aoe? I said TEAMFIGHT. Also aatrox healing can be reduce, both by gw and armour (since he heals based on how much damage he deals). Again, i cant see why you have a problem with aatrox but not vlad.

As an aatrox player with his new update I can say I PREFER to teamfight than skirmish now.

And as someone that played until a while ago only aatrox, i think teamfights suck for aatrox. Even stats support this. Opgg and champion gg (the only ones that have graphs that i can read) show that aatrox until 25 min has positive winrate. At 25 also (according to champ gg) it apparently peaks. After that he falls off. Hard. Meaning that when others group and eventually reach full build, aatrox cant keep up that well.

FallenShawMay 27, 20191 votes

His rework made him underpowered as hell. There was nothing wrong with his Kit pre-rework besides it was unrealiable, when it came to his passive and reviving and thus why pros didn't play him. Thing is he was alot stronger then and could play safer vs losing match ups. The only reason he was unrealiable before was his dive, it was bugged, when you used it it would reset your passive and turn off your revive. All Riot had todo honest was fix that 1 bug and he would of fit right in the game. Instead he's utterly r%%%%%ed to play now, esp with his dull and rather boring as hell playstyle and lack luster ult.

Starboy XMay 27, 20191 votes

ur suggestions are literally what he was before the hotfix and he had a 46% win rate, he's strong right know but he is easy to kite and his damage falls off late game, gets shit on by adcs with mobility or invisibility he has a lot of counterplay ever since the second e charge was removed, the real problem is conqueror

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Starboy X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HEbU2Vbc,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-05-27T17:23:58.726+0000)

ur suggestions are literally what he was before the hotfix and he had a 46% win rate, he's strong right know but he is easy to kite and his damage falls off late game, gets shit on by adcs with mobility or invisibility he has a lot of counterplay ever since the second e charge was removed, the real problem is conqueror

46% win rate because people didn't get good until like 3 days into the patch. He became more of a "skill-based" champion, and less of a fun "I use Q3->Flash->E to kill you instantly".

Fear the KaynMay 27, 20191 votes

I honestly think hes fine. He's balanced around the idea of getting ahead. If you fall behind as the 'Trox, its hard to catch up.

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HEbU2Vbc,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-05-27T18:42:13.173+0000)

I honestly think hes fine. He's balanced around the idea of getting ahead. If you fall behind as the 'Trox, its hard to catch up.

This in of itself is unhealthy as instead of properly balancing the "drain tank" archetype/niche you're instead forcing it to only function when ahead. However, this is partially untrue as Aatrox is just fine when going even, and not AS bad as what you're saying when he's behind. He's still sub-par when behind, but he's not like saaaay, Katarina who is literally useless when behind.