Dynamic queue is causing so many players to leave, even long time veterans like myself are only here through sheer conditioning.
Give us solo queue, you promised it to the community and betrayed us at the last second.
Chamuel858 votesI love DQ.
Dominick Destine2 votesSQ is the only way for the game to survive.
Chamuel856 voteshrm #DataDoesNotMatter #MyEmotionFueledOpinionIsBest
Dominick Destine1 voteshrm #DataDoesNotMatter #MyEmotionFueledOpinionIsBest
This.
All data strongly supports that SQ is the only way to survive and DQ is complete garbage.
Flaherty3 votesCan you show us this data?
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=O Flayherty ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-11T15:49:38.235+0000)
Can you show us this data?
League of Legends reddit, League of Legends official board and of course who can forget;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwPa1SGLGv0
Ah yes, that glorious dislike bar. Out of 33,000 votes, only 7,000 are likes, that's not even 1/4th.
FioraWillCarry4 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-11T15:50:57.022+0000)
League of Legends reddit, League of Legends official board and of course who can forget;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwPa1SGLGv0
Ah yes, that glorious dislike bar. Out of 33,000 votes, only 7,000 are likes, that's not even 1/4th.
If you started a vote on Stormfront about whether black people should still be slaves you would be lucky to get 7000 people to vote against it. I guess that means that all white people think black people should still be slaves. You tell me.
Chamuel851 votesu.u
Xidphel2 votesDairy Queen IS awesome!
FiddlesOnTheRoof6 votesAnd me, and many, many others are are sitting here like, "I really enjoy DQ."
Dominick Destine1 votesAnd me, and many, many others are are sitting here like, "I really enjoy DQ."
Sure, by that logic an even greater number are there saying "I dislike DQ, I want SQ".
So add a second queue that is SQ, we'll see which one of us was right but we already know the answer.
FiddlesOnTheRoof2 votesI 100% support two queues. I have from Unger beginning. But there is no evidence to support your claim that more people want SQ. I've asked many, players, and the VAST majority like DQ (and yes, I emphasised the difference between DQ and NCS). Now that's not to say that a ton of people don't hate it. But i think these boards are a haven for the couple thousand people who despise DQ. Don't forget, there are literally MILLIONS of players whom neither you or I know how they would vote on the issue.
Dominick Destine1 votesthere is no evidence to support your claim that more people want SQ.
Aside from every single metric of data available.
there are literally MILLIONS of players whom neither you or I know how they would vote on the issue.
Irrelevant.
Any sampling, if sufficiently randomized, will be representative of the greater group.
DeathBurst2 votesBut precisely, it is not sufficiently randomized.
Also, that's not even true. You still need a sufficient number of person in your sampling to have a decent confidence. 10 persons, even with a perfectly random distribution, can't give you any meaningful information.
Dominick Destine1 votesBut precisely, it is not sufficiently randomized.
Based on what? there was no causal link other than everyone played League of Legends which was a prerequisite to be factored in, in the first place.
Your argument fails.
DeathBurst2 votesBased on people like you publicizing this video to other people like you and band-wagoning around it while the people OK with DQ wouldn't even bother to watch it in the first place, so let's not speak about voting about it. Why bother when you can just play the game you like in the queue you enjoy or don't care about?
Dominick Destine1 votesBased on people like you publicizing this video to other people
So your argument is that I am capable of mind-controlling on a grand scale and people lack the capacity to understand basic concepts?
That's an abysmal argument. Get out of here with that nonsense.
DeathBurst2 votesMy argument is that people like you (and not just you specifically) have a great talent to find like-minded people and band together.
My 2nd argument is that people who are already happy with the current situation have no incentive to act.
Dominick Destine1 votesMy argument is that people like you (and not just you specifically) have a great talent to find like-minded people and band together.
So your conspiracy theory is that people like me rallied together hundreds of thousands of viewers for the express purpose of downvoting that YouTube video ?
You do not find it more likely that people were already subscribed to Riot, something we know for a fact btw, and clicked on the video when it was uploaded?
You pro-DQ advocates are really losing it.
My 2nd argument is that people who are already happy with the current situation have no incentive to act.
What's your point? that's a terrible argument.
By that logic 'A New Dawn' wouldn't have likes because "poeple who are already happy with the current situation have no incentive to act".
TrulyBland1 votesSure, presumably a lot of people clicked on the video when it was uploaded. But if you actually cared to look at the data, it'd be obvious that only a tiny tiny fraction of the people that watched the video actually felt the need to like/dislike it.
Also, there being no (inherent) incentive to something doesn't mean people won't do it. There is undeniably a stronger incentive to oppose something that you dislike than reaffirm the status quo.
If you want another example of an overwhelming response, that at the same time is absolutely not representative, just take a look at the Tyler1 thread. So this isn't a conspiracy theory. This is something that constantly happens on the internet. A loud minority misrepresenting a complete community is just another tuesday.
Dominick Destine1 votesSure, presumably a lot of people clicked on the video when it was uploaded.
"presumably"? you must mean factually.
Are you arguing that people sought out these two videos with the express purpose of liking or disliking before they even consumed the media?
That's absolute nonsense.
But if you actually cared to look at the data, it'd be obvious that only a tiny tiny fraction of the people that watched the video actually felt the need to like/dislike it.
What's your point? that's literally meaningless.
So this isn't a conspiracy theory.
Actually it is.
You are arguing that people rallied together to dislike a video that they had never even seen, which is absolute madness.
But let's see further; Look at the comments in the Dynamic Queue Roundtable video, the overwhelming majority are saying that Riot borked the game with their removal of SQ for DQ.
Is that simply coincidence ? no, it's evidence.
TrulyBland1 votesI fail to see you even make a point. Basically you just say how mad it is, how it's a consipracy theory, etc. etc. etc.
But you are ignoring the actual point, which isn't about conspiracies, or intentional manipulation, or subscribers. The simple fact of the matter is: People that are discontent are loud. They are louder than those who are content. They feel a stronger urge to express their opinion.
As it stands this could be on of those literally thousands of other cases where a loud minority on the internet is overshadowing an actually content majority. It's not madness to assume that something that is constantly happening in the exact same way is happening yet again. Unless of course, you were to give an actual argument why this is a different situation, or (even better) if you were to back up the fact that all the people that voted are actually a randomized sample with actual facts.
Edit: speaking of actual facts, unless you give me some regarding subscriptions and how many of the people that voted were subscribers and how many were not, it is "presumably", not "factually". The word "factually", weirdly enough, is used when you talk about facts, not estimates.
DeathBurst1 votesAnd guess what? A New Dawn has 1.3% votes/view ratio. The roundtable video has 5.5%. So yeah, actually, A New Dawn has much less votes than the roundtable video, because people have no incentive to vote on it.
Also, it's less clear, but the roundtable video also has a lower number of views than other videos released in a similar time frame, indicating that some people didn't even bother watching it.
So what's my point? That the votes under the roundtable video are close to meaningless, because the people who a/ watched the video in the first place, and b/ then voted on it, are not properly randomized at all and are highly more likely than the general player base to be against DQ.
Dominick Destine1 votesAnd guess what? A New Dawn has 1.3% votes/view ratio.
And that is irrelevant.
Any sampling of a group if sufficiently randomized is representative of the whole. This is basic statistics, it's not complicated.
TrulyBland2 votesActually what you say is irrelevant. It's not part of this specific argument. Nobody was talking about sample sizes.
By that logic 'A New Dawn' wouldn't have likes because "poeple who are already happy with the current situation have no incentive to act".
And he basically said that this is exactly the case. The counterargument you attempted to give invalidated your own argument.
You really have to stop calling your own arguments irrelevant the moment they're refuted... it becomes tiring after a while.
Dominick Destine1 votesActually what you say is irrelevant. It's not part of this specific argument. Nobody was talking about sample sizes.
Nor was I , I was making a point about representative samples, literally the opposite of what you are presenting.
Your argument is easily refuted and dismissed.
TrulyBland1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T20:50:34.609+0000)
Nor was I , I was making a point about representative samples, literally the opposite of what you are presenting.
Your argument is easily refuted and dismissed.
Semantics, the point is you're starting to talk about something nobody talked about.
People who are happy with the current situation have no incentive to act
This is the argument. You have not refuted it, in fact you have accidentally supported it. When that was pointed out you randomly started talking about representative samples.
DeathBurst1 votesYeah, what TrulyBland said. You have trouble following a reasoning with more than 2 steps, apparently.
TrulyBland2 votesNo causal link? That's a bold statement for a group of people that you could not possibly know all the details about. Not knowing details about a group of people does not automatically make them randomized.
DeathBurst2 votesEspecially when there are obvious biases that could be in effect here.
DeathBurst1 votesAnd even couple thousands, you're generous... Couple hundreds is more plausible, judging by upvotes.
FioraWillCarry4 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-11T14:42:17.235+0000)
Dynamic queue is causing so many players to leave
Proof ?
FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votesWas wondering the same thing. Posts on the board saying "gg I kant solo karry wit my sik mekkanikz anymore" don't count. We all know those guys are probably still playing
Flaherty3 votesBeen playing since season 3, I prefer dynamic queue over solo queue.
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=O Flayherty ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-07-11T15:50:45.582+0000)
Been playing since season 3, I prefer dynamic queue over solo queue.
That's nice.
Now how about we add a solo queue option and see which queue thrives.
Flaherty4 votesOr learn how to deal with the current queue since Riot says it's here to stay.
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=O Flayherty ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-07-11T18:14:57.070+0000)
Or learn how to deal with the current queue since Riot says it's here to stay.
If Riot insists on driving their game to the ground, sure.
But I strongly suspect Riot will eventually realize that catering to a small group of players at the expense of the majority of the player base, is not a wise decision.
Flaherty2 votesWhat makes you think it's a small group of players that don't want solo queue back? Because of how many times on the forums people complain about Dynamic Queue?
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=O Flayherty ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-11T21:46:51.176+0000)
What makes you think it's a small group of players that don't want solo queue back? Because of how many times on the forums people complain about Dynamic Queue?
Because every metric of data tells us otherwise.
Every metric tells us solo queue is desired and dynamic queue is pure garbage.... ex; if we added a solo queue right now, without changing anything... which would have more players , DQ or SQ?
Nik Nikerson2 votesWhat metrics would those be?
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-13T19:59:22.456+0000)
What metrics would those be?
LoL Reddit, LoL forums, In-game players, Dynamic Queue Roundtable votes which are overwhelmingly negative due to the nature of Riot having stated that they betrayed their own players in order to sustain Dynamic Queue.
Etc.
Nik Nikerson1 votesThe Tyler1 banning post has thousands and thousands of downvotes. By far more downvotes than any other thread I've ever seen on the forums. Does this mean most players are outraged at the situation and want it reversed? No, it means there's a very dedicated, very vocal group that is very passionate about the situation. People yelling on the internet doesn't always equate to actual real life numbers.
I'm not saying you're definitely wrong. I'm not interested in a debate over whether or not solo queue should be returned (I'm pretty indifferent at this point). I was really just hoping you had actual numbers you could point me to. I have a tough time simply taking "people on the internet are complaining" as firm evidence.
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T20:45:03.258+0000)
The Tyler1 banning post has thousands and thousands of downvotes. By far more downvotes than any other thread I've ever seen on the forums. Does this mean most players are outraged at the situation and want it reversed?
Fallacious argument.
Do a referendum in-game with regards to toxic/troll players like Tyler1 and see what comes back.
Do a referendum in-game about SQ vs DQ or better yet, open SQ and see how well DQ holds up (Spoiler: It will die on the spot).
Nik Nikerson1 votesYou're trying to make a positive claim, I'm asking you for evidence. How about you go do the work and poll people in game and give me your results?
And why are you telling me to open a referendum or open Solo Queue up? I'm not part of Riot. I don't have a say in the matter. If it makes you feel better, if it were up to me, I would completely rework the entire system. Unfortunately (for some unknown reason) Riot hasn't placed me in charge of these matters. So in the same vein, why don't you gather the funds to buy Riot, and once you do, place me in charge of those decisions and I'll take you up on your proposition and allow the players to decide (Spoiler: Asking the impossible of someone makes for a bad argument).
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T21:14:50.093+0000)
You're trying to make a positive claim, I'm asking you for evidence.
That's impressive, you not only failed to present an argument but are trying to shift the burden of proof over to me, nice.
But a failed fallacy against someone that is intelligent. The fact is; The votes are there and indicate that the vast majority dislike the fact that the community was betrayed (I.e. S removed in favor of DQ by Riot's decision).
The pro-DQ camp believes this is because of a shadow cabal of individuals that organized a strike team of downvoters against the video. The burden is on you to prove that such nonsense actually occurred.
Intelligent men on the other hand recognize that the overwhelmingly negative reaction to the video is indicative of the general consensus of the community.
And why are you telling me to open a referendum or open Solo Queue up?
It was an argument to indicate that SQ > DQ. It's not complicated.
Nik Nikerson1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T21:23:37.054+0000)
That's impressive, you not only failed to present an argument but are trying to shift the burden of proof over to me, nice.
I didn't present an argument, because as I said, I'm not trying to argue with you. I told you, at this point I'm pretty indifferent to the issue. I am neither pro-DQ or pro-SQ (nor am I against either). I enjoy playing ranked with my friends, so I guess you can say I've enjoyed DQ. But I played league before that was an option, and enjoyed that as well. If Riot decided to make ranked a purely solo experience next season, I would continue to play. It's not going to affect my choice to play the game either way.
I didn't say you were wrong (I even admitted you could be right). I simply want numbers one way or the other, and wanted to know the metrics you were using to reach your conclusion. I also pointed out where there are potential flaws in the so called metrics you are using. I've played Magic: The Gathering for a very long time. Over time the people in charge of MtG have made several large changes to the game and the cards. Every time there have been very vocal groups that claim those changes were going to kill the game. So far they have all been wrong. I just want to know if what you're saying is correct, or another example of a minority of people loudly decrying a decision they don't agree with.
And I didn't shift the burden of proof onto you. You made the positive claim. That means the burden of proof was always on you. And I'm not the one that asked you to do something (impossible) to prove my point.
[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T21:23:37.054+0000)
The fact is; The votes are there and indicate that the vast majority dislike the fact that the community was betrayed (I.e. S removed in favor of DQ by Riot's decision).
I haven't seen actual, objective numbers either way. What I was trying to point out with my previous comment is that noise on the internet does not mean the vast majority of people want solo queue. Clearly there are a large number of people that want Solo Queue (or at the least dislike Dynamic Queue as it currently stands). But I want more evidence than that before I accept that number is the "vast majority". Again, I'm not even trying to take the stance you are wrong. It is very possible you are correct. But I want more tangible evidence before I accept what you're saying as fact.
[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T21:23:37.054+0000) The pro-DQ camp believes this is because of a shadow cabal of individuals that organized a strike team of downvoters against the video. The burden is on you to prove that such nonsense actually occurred.
Fallacious Argument.
The burden of proof is on no one to prove that, as no one made that claim. One would assume an intelligent man would recognize a strawman when he was constructing one.
And now I'm arguing with you... sigh. I failed again.
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H9eJkbKy,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-26T00:02:32.227+0000)
I didn't present an argument
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Nik Nikerson1 votesPretty much.
DeathBurst1 votesNow how about we add a solo queue option and see both queues die.
FTFY
