Illaoi is too E reliant

Pyrithegethon·Nov 5, 2017·39 votes·2,924 views

Illaoi lands E when fighting her laner or is getting ganked? She will probably win or has a good chance.

Illaoi misses E? She is getting a gray screen as she has no realistic fighting chance vs most champions.

What Illaoi gains from landing E: 1 extra tentacle from ult, a guarentee slam if she ults, a copy of the enemy champion that will transfer damage and with ult cause the enemy to take more than 100% damage when both of them are hit, and most importantly another target to heal off of.

Illaoi if she misses E then ults? She has to pray to her god that the enemy has no CC and that her W doesnt keep cancelling, and that she doesnt die before she can kill her enemy.

43 Comments

BumblebeadyNov 5, 201722 votes

I mean she's a juggernaut though, situational power is kind of the whole point, isn't it? She deals too much damage to not have vulnerabilities like that.

PyrithegethonNov 5, 201712 votes

No other Juggernaut is so reliant on perfect conditions to deal damage like Illaoi is. Not all need to be met but most of them do. Here are her conditions:

She needs tentacles set up around her prior so that she has damage. If this isnt possible then she loses out on a bit of damage.

She needs to land her E in order to not only have guarentee slams, but to also gain an advantage.

She needs to be near her tentacles or else when she W's they wont even move.

She needs her R active in order for her tentacles to actually hit the enemy. The only time her tentacles normally hit the enemy is when she is in laning phase with her Q or the enemy doesnt know how to dodge her tentacles in lane which is most of her damage.

If she has no tentacles near her then she needs to land E+R to have a chance. If she misses her E then she will just spawn 1 tentacle vs 1 person and the enemy will almost not lose vs her then because her damage is pitiful.

Illaoi needs to burst and kill her enemies within her 8 seconds of ult active. If she doesnt then she will probably die or nothing comes from it.

Compare her to literally any other juggernaut(except Yorick) and watch how none of them are reliant on one specific combo to have a chance to fight their opponent.

Darius just needs to build stacks and position himself so that his Q hits the enemy with the blade. He isnt reliant on any specific combo to acheive this.

DrMundo is probably getting a relaunch but I'll include his current version. All he does is land his cleavers, use his E for damage, and his ult to stay in the fight longer.

Garen besides his villian mechanic giving him more damage, he literally just has to spin on the enemy for damage with his autos being filler.

Nasus he just needs to Q, Q, and Q some more to kill the enemy. His ultimate makes his Q have a far lower cd for more damage. The condition Nasus has is having a decent amount of stacks on his Q.

Olaf needs to land axes and actually be able to auto attack the enemy champion. His ultimate is there to make him harder to kite and CC. Does not require set up prior besides having his cds up.

Mordekaiser is getting a vgu but I'll include him anyways. Sort of needs an ally so that he can get the full use of his W. If not then he just can damage the enemy with his other spells while hopefully staying in range of the enemy.

Shyvana no real condition to fight an enemy champion besides having her ult ready to use. If she doesnt have ult then she just needs to land E and run the enemy down. Her ult is a bonus and is not mandatory to win a fight.

Udyr same as Shyvana, just needs to stay in range and run the enemy down, no need for prep prior.

Trundle same as Shyv and Udyr except this guys ult is actually useful. His only condition to win a fight is having his ult up. Does not rely on a combo to win besides landing R and running them down.

Urgot this guy has no conditions besides having his W ready to use. He just needs to press W and move around the enemy. His ult is there to make sure the enemy cant escape with low health. His Q and E are there to help him move around the enemy. Does not rely on prep prior. He can fight anywhere at anytime unless he has no shotgun leg charges.

same as Udyr and Shyvana except Volibear has needs his ult for the boost in damage. His only real condition for more damage is getting the enemy low for his bite to kill them.

Yorick is similar to Illaoi in lane but loses the needing to build up tentacles/ghouls once he has ult. His ult immediately gives him ghouls without needing to build them up on minions. He needs to stay in melee range of the enemy to deal damage afterwards which he has his E and W to help with. If he doesnt have ult then similar to Illaoi, he needs to build up lots of ghouls prior to the fight. He is reliant on his ult but only his ult come later in the game. If he has no ult or ghouls he is useless.

Edit: added Volibear and Yorick.

Chembaron YamadaNov 5, 201711 votes

If other targets are available, Urgot has to rely to hit his Q and E to get the lock on. Ever fought with Urgot in a minion wave without hitting these skills first? You don't accomplish anything meaningful.

ZerenzaNov 6, 20174 votes

Your not playing illaoi right.

LordGeovanniNov 6, 20175 votes

trundle needs good e positioning to win fights and knowing when to hold it as a disruption tool.

Troll for TrumpNov 6, 20176 votes

Darius Yes, he only needs to get 5 stacks or a ult execute on a target w/o 5 stacks.

DrMundo is kinda a weird case. Without his ult he kinda does nothing. He doesn't really do anything regardless, but he's basically useless without ult in teamfights and skirmishes, because of his pretty lackluster abilities.

Garen Moment of power by using W and getting to the judgment target. The entire judgment minigame is a situational gimmick that drains his power budget on any non-judgment afflicted target.

Nasus Yep. In teamfights, he probably needs R too. But reliance on ramp-up over time is a big condition.

Olaf he needs ult or he's just going to get kited. Similar to mundo, but not as bad as mundo. He won't do anything without ult unless you stand there and take punishment from him. He can do more with his kit w/o ult than Illaoi, but gets less reward than her.

Mordekaiser His Q set-up and prepping iron man for fights. Or he just flops.

Shyvana Her ult is needed because otherwise her only gapcloser is just running at the target really fast. If they have even an ounce of cc, that won't work. And, if they don't have the cc to stop you, they're probably champs that can outduel her regardless.

Udyr He needs to stack or ramp up passives. His condition is long-lasting fights. In shorter fights, he'll just get blown up.

Trundle Yeah, not really particularly reliant on anything in-lane. Teamfights his ult can make-or-break in tank metas.

Urgot Shotgun knees. Just, shotgun knees. That is a big condition, you can't dismiss it. Without those knees,he's nothing.

Volibear Yeah for him it's just getting the target low into frenzy range, and maybe w stacks. His ult doesn't add THAT much to his kit either. But what reward does he get for his kit? Very little.

Yorick Yep, condition is ghouls, which requires either prior setup, or his relatively long-cd ult. Pretty big condition.

Illaoi Is honestly comparable to these, given her (supposed) risk-reward. I don't think her E needs to be changed, but rather her kit needs to be more rewarding.

Illaoi isn't really good because, even when things go right, she doesn't do anything in the current meta, or many of the past metas, and like in the future metas. More mobility, more cc cripples her too much.

LulzMudkipzzNov 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No other Juggernaut is so reliant on perfect conditions to deal damage like Illaoi is. Not all need to be met but most of them do. Here are her conditions:

She needs tentacles set up around her prior so that she has damage. If this isnt possible then she loses out on a bit of damage.

She needs to land her E in order to not only have guarentee slams, but to also gain an advantage.

She needs to be near her tentacles or else when she W's they wont even move.

She needs her R active in order for her tentacles to actually hit the enemy. The only time her tentacles normally hit the enemy is when she is in laning phase with her Q or the enemy doesnt know how to dodge her tentacles in lane which is most of her damage.

If she has no tentacles near her then she needs to land E+R to have a chance. If she misses her E then she will just spawn 1 tentacle vs 1 person and the enemy will almost not lose vs her then because her damage is pitiful.

Illaoi needs to burst and kill her enemies within her 8 seconds of ult active. If she doesnt then she will probably die or nothing comes from it.

Compare her to literally any other juggernaut(except Yorick) and watch how none of them are reliant on one specific combo to have a chance to fight their opponent.

just needs to build stacks and position himself so that his Q hits the enemy with the blade. He isnt reliant on any specific combo to acheive this.

is probably getting a relaunch but I'll include his current version. All he does is land his cleavers, use his E for damage, and his ult to stay in the fight longer.

besides his villian mechanic giving him more damage, he literally just has to spin on the enemy for damage with his autos being filler.

he just needs to Q, Q, and Q some more to kill the enemy. His ultimate makes his Q have a far lower cd for more damage. The condition Nasus has is having a decent amount of stacks on his Q.

needs to land axes and actually be able to auto attack the enemy champion. His ultimate is there to make him harder to kite and CC. Does not require set up prior besides having his cds up.

is getting a vgu but I'll include him anyways. Sort of needs an ally so that he can get the full use of his W. If not then he just can damage the enemy with his other spells while hopefully staying in range of the enemy.

no real condition to fight an enemy champion besides having her ult ready to use. If she doesnt have ult then she just needs to land E and run the enemy down. Her ult is a bonus and is not mandatory to win a fight.

same as Shyvana, just needs to stay in range and run the enemy down, no need for prep prior.

same as Shyv and Udyr except this guys ult is actually useful. His only condition to win a fight is having his ult up. Does not rely on a combo to win besides landing R and running them down.

this guy has no conditions besides having his W ready to use. He just needs to press W and move around the enemy. His ult is there to make sure the enemy cant escape with low health. His Q and E are there to help him move around the enemy. Does not rely on prep prior. He can fight anywhere at anytime unless he has no shotgun leg charges.

same as Udyr and Shyvana except Volibear has needs his ult for the boost in damage. His only real condition for more damage is getting the enemy low for his bite to kill them.

is similar to Illaoi in lane but loses the needing to build up tentacles/ghouls once he has ult. His ult immediately gives him ghouls without needing to build them up on minions. He needs to stay in melee range of the enemy to deal damage afterwards which he has his E and W to help with. If he doesnt have ult then similar to Illaoi, he needs to build up lots of ghouls prior to the fight. He is reliant on his ult but only his ult come later in the game. If he has no ult or ghouls he is useless.

Edit: added Volibear and Yorick.

No clue why this is getting downvoted these are very good points

ZerenzaNov 6, 20173 votes

It's because all of them are Situational, the person just doesn't understand that because he doesn't play juggernauts.

{quoted}

Yes, he only needs to get 5 stacks or a ult execute on a target w/o 5 stacks.

is kinda a weird case. Without his ult he kinda does nothing. He doesn't really do anything regardless, but he's basically useless without ult in teamfights and skirmishes, because of his pretty lackluster abilities.

Moment of power by using W and getting to the judgment target. The entire judgment minigame is a situational gimmick that drains his power budget on any non-judgment afflicted target.

Yep. In teamfights, he probably needs R too. But reliance on ramp-up over time is a big condition.

he needs ult or he's just going to get kited. Similar to mundo, but not as bad as mundo. He won't do anything without ult unless you stand there and take punishment from him. He can do more with his kit w/o ult than Illaoi, but gets less reward than her.

His Q set-up and prepping iron man for fights. Or he just flops.

Her ult is needed because otherwise her only gapcloser is just running at the target really fast. If they have even an ounce of cc, that won't work. And, if they don't have the cc to stop you, they're probably champs that can outduel her regardless.

He needs to stack or ramp up passives. His condition is long-lasting fights. In shorter fights, he'll just get blown up.

Yeah, not really particularly reliant on anything in-lane. Teamfights his ult can make-or-break in tank metas.

Shotgun knees. Just, shotgun knees. That is a big condition, you can't dismiss it. Without those knees,he's nothing.

Yeah for him it's just getting the target low into frenzy range, and maybe w stacks. His ult doesn't add THAT much to his kit either. But what reward does he get for his kit? Very little.

Yep, condition is ghouls, which requires either prior setup, or his relatively long-cd ult. Pretty big condition.

Is honestly comparable to these, given her (supposed) risk-reward. I don't think her E needs to be changed, but rather her kit needs to be more rewarding.

Illaoi isn't really good because, even when things go right, she doesn't do anything in the current meta, or many of the past metas, and like in the future metas. More mobility, more cc cripples her too much.

This right here is the reason why that guy is getting downvoted, almost every juggernaut has Situational Advantage, most juggernauts rely heavily on something in their kit's that they have to set up themselves or don't even have the option to set up themselves(Garen). What i don't understand is why this guys post is getting so many upvotes when he clearly has no idea how to play Illaoi correctly.

SteelMankindNov 6, 20171 votes

Nasus also should be Q'ing targets while they're standing on his E so he benefits from the armor shred

KinnikukoNov 6, 20173 votes

Getting 5 stacks with Darius is pretty hard if your not ahead. Unless you have titanic hydra.

emarythomp2Apr 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No other Juggernaut is so reliant on perfect conditions to deal damage like Illaoi is. Not all need to be met but most of them do. Here are her conditions:

She needs tentacles set up around her prior so that she has damage. If this isnt possible then she loses out on a bit of damage.

She needs to land her E in order to not only have guarentee slams, but to also gain an advantage.

She needs to be near her tentacles or else when she W's they wont even move.

She needs her R active in order for her tentacles to actually hit the enemy. The only time her tentacles normally hit the enemy is when she is in laning phase with her Q or the enemy doesnt know how to dodge her tentacles in lane which is most of her damage.

If she has no tentacles near her then she needs to land E+R to have a chance. If she misses her E then she will just spawn 1 tentacle vs 1 person and the enemy will almost not lose vs her then because her damage is pitiful.

Illaoi needs to burst and kill her enemies within her 8 seconds of ult active. If she doesnt then she will probably die or nothing comes from it.

Compare her to literally any other juggernaut(except Yorick) and watch how none of them are reliant on one specific combo to have a chance to fight their opponent.

just needs to build stacks and position himself so that his Q hits the enemy with the blade. He isnt reliant on any specific combo to acheive this.

is probably getting a relaunch but I'll include his current version. All he does is land his cleavers, use his E for damage, and his ult to stay in the fight longer.

besides his villian mechanic giving him more damage, he literally just has to spin on the enemy for damage with his autos being filler.

he just needs to Q, Q, and Q some more to kill the enemy. His ultimate makes his Q have a far lower cd for more damage. The condition Nasus has is having a decent amount of stacks on his Q.

needs to land axes and actually be able to auto attack the enemy champion. His ultimate is there to make him harder to kite and CC. Does not require set up prior besides having his cds up.

is getting a vgu but I'll include him anyways. Sort of needs an ally so that he can get the full use of his W. If not then he just can damage the enemy with his other spells while hopefully staying in range of the enemy.

no real condition to fight an enemy champion besides having her ult ready to use. If she doesnt have ult then she just needs to land E and run the enemy down. Her ult is a bonus and is not mandatory to win a fight.

same as Shyvana, just needs to stay in range and run the enemy down, no need for prep prior.

same as Shyv and Udyr except this guys ult is actually useful. His only condition to win a fight is having his ult up. Does not rely on a combo to win besides landing R and running them down.

this guy has no conditions besides having his W ready to use. He just needs to press W and move around the enemy. His ult is there to make sure the enemy cant escape with low health. His Q and E are there to help him move around the enemy. Does not rely on prep prior. He can fight anywhere at anytime unless he has no shotgun leg charges.

same as Udyr and Shyvana except Volibear has needs his ult for the boost in damage. His only real condition for more damage is getting the enemy low for his bite to kill them.

is similar to Illaoi in lane but loses the needing to build up tentacles/ghouls once he has ult. His ult immediately gives him ghouls without needing to build them up on minions. He needs to stay in melee range of the enemy to deal damage afterwards which he has his E and W to help with. If he doesnt have ult then similar to Illaoi, he needs to build up lots of ghouls prior to the fight. He is reliant on his ult but only his ult come later in the game. If he has no ult or ghouls he is useless.

Edit: added Volibear and Yorick.

I don’t know why you made the only difference between yorick and illaoi the fact that you get ghouls instantly since illaoi gets tentacles instantly with r too. As long as an enemy is in range. Also yorick doesn’t need to rely on ghouls after a certain point in the game because his q can do so much dmg

PoskeNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean she's a juggernaut though, situational power is kind of the whole point, isn't it? She deals too much damage to not have vulnerabilities like that.

Gho gath is the only non trash juggernaut in the game atm

Ok sure but whyNov 5, 201711 votes

illaoi was a mistake of a champion

iLBGAMingNov 5, 20173 votes

Amen to that.

######(Jk i'm not religious)

ZerenzaNov 6, 201713 votes

Someone doesn't know how to play against or as her...

KVbqbFsC8eNov 6, 20176 votes

That doesn't change the fact that Illaoi was a mistake of a champion.

Festive BearNov 6, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H8vLs9b8,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-06T01:02:52.680+0000)

That doesn't change the fact that Illaoi was a mistake of a champion.

She's one of the funnest champs to play though. She's one of the best teamfighting champions and it's soooo satisfying to land a good ult and melt the entire team

LordGeovanniNov 6, 20171 votes

she should deal less damage but have much higher base stats this would allow her to build more ad. 2 slaming people in ult is pretty bad to be on the receiving end of.

PB4UAMENov 7, 20171 votes

Well yeah, but you already let her win, and fucked up your positioning something terrible for that to happen, so you always 110% deserve it.

LordGeovanniNov 8, 20171 votes

wtf you talking about im not ranting that some illaoi smashed me (lord please) a couple games ago im saying that she deserves better base sats so she can go a real bruiser 65% damage 35% defense build instead of all the 80% defense 20% damage builds they have bruisers be building.

PB4UAMENov 8, 20171 votes

My point is, for her to be able to "2 slam people in ult" they have already misplayed badly enough to deserve getting dumstered for staying in her ult after she landed it, when there is a minimum 1.5 seconds between her cast of it and the first tentacle hit, let alone the second.

LordGeovanniNov 8, 20171 votes

Misplayed badly being that Illaoi is the only champion that wants a grouped team in the game right.

Ok sure but whyNov 6, 20174 votes

Everyone knows how to play against her: Bait out her ult and stay as far away from her as possible.

So a smart Illaoi just split pushes all game long, because she knows the enemy will leave her alone if she doesn't ult. She's designed to be avoided and not played around. It's putrid. It's almost as bad as Kennen, except her tentacles neither move from their position nor stun.

6SfoolNov 5, 20173 votes

I love Illaoi. I hate her E. It's a boring spell that has way too much power. It has too many weird conditions that amplify the rest of her kit, and it turns her great frontliner position into one where she hides back by her tents and looks for easy vessels.

ZerenzaNov 6, 20173 votes

The E honestly only matter's if the Illaoi is stupid enough to be Maxing it. You should be maxxing Q first in lane, it increases the damage of all tentacles which in hind sight is better than getting extra damage from your E and makes you less reliant on the ability to win trades. Not to mention you can't miss your E if you never use it until you know you'll hit it, i use my E to stop ganks, all-ins and to punish my opponent, this is the intended way she was supposed to played as well considering all of her voice lines support this play style. Instead of an unstoppable juggernaut, your an immovable one.

CaeziumNov 6, 20173 votes

But all high elo Illaoi's as far as I can tell max E first into Q second. I can't find one that does not. Are you saying that a Diamond 2 player like http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=seaknightofea is wrong and you a bronze 3 http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=zerenza with a 0% win ratio as Illaoi are right and should Max Q first?

ZerenzaNov 6, 20171 votes

I think you should go into a game, max Q first and only use your E when your sure you'll hit it. I think you'll see a pretty big difference if your actually trying to win the game. I may not play ranked much but i played illaoi a lot(not this month though, since i hate top now.) and i prefer to max Q because it makes landing your E less of a necessity. Seaknight is really good at landing his E's so he, and likely many other Diamond player's who have much better mechanics that me, probably max their E because they can actually land it. I can't land it, so i don't maxx it since it won't help me.

Like...i understand using my rank against me, but i don't like to play ranked and i think that you should give it a shot yourself before bringing my rank and trying to make my opinion completely invalid.

CaeziumNov 6, 20173 votes

I just dislike inferior builds/skill orders regardless of rank. I have played both Q and E max Illaoi and E feels a lot better. It spawns an extra tentacle on ult, it acts as a rather large damage amp or a tool to poke 45% of the enemy's HP in 1 go at max rank.

Even if you cannot hit it for some reason at any range, including in melee somehow, Q does almost the same damage regardless of rank because of how the base and scaling work on it (10 base + 10 per champion level, not rank of Q 120% AD scaling), with a standard build rank 1 Q can still clear the backline minions.

You just have to hit 1 E to really out damage it. Going from 25% of their HP in E poke to 45% is huge, while also serving as a rather large dmg amp if they are silly enough to try and engage on you. You don't have to go for max range Es, you can use it as insurance in the event of a gank because of the dmg amp and make it very hard to not at least go 1 for 1. (I hope you can hit point blank Es at minimum)

E is her 2nd most important ability and makes her hell to fight even with just the threat of it.

LordGeovanniNov 6, 20172 votes

Illaoi's e was ad ratio was largely nerfed and in fights you shoudlnt be targeting the soul if you can hit a champion the soul only does about 30-50% extra damage while damage direct to the champion is full damage. The only thing i have a problem with with illaoi is that her passive is supposed to heal per person it hits the way how it is worded or per tentecle that hits a person.

ZerenzaNov 6, 20171 votes

It heals per tentacle smash, so if you have a Spirit+A Champion and hit both with 1 tentacle, it will heal for 5% of her missing health regardless of target's struck.

What i do when playing illaoi is to Purposely aim my tentacles so that when i hit the Champion, it hits the spirit too, maximizing damage.

LordGeovanniNov 6, 20171 votes

Yet healing per tentacle smash implies that if you have 2 tentecles in a lane you w and both tentecles hit a champion or spirit diffrent or the same that you then get 10% missing health healing increased by 5 for each tentecle that hits a champion or spirt

ZerenzaNov 6, 20171 votes

That is actually exactly how it work's, so if you have 6 tentacles(E+5 Champions) then if each tentacle hit's someone you'll heal for 30% of your missing health.

ZerenzaNov 7, 20171 votes

That is actually exactly how it work's, so if you have 6 tentacles(E+5 Champions) then if each tentacle hit's someone you'll heal for 30% of your missing health.

LordGeovanniNov 8, 20171 votes

thanks then but i never see my healing go up ever and i even run deaths dance on her.

PB4UAMENov 7, 20171 votes

You get the healing a maximum of 1 time per tentacle.

You need to be hitting unique targets with each tentacle for multiple heals. 2 Tenatcles hitting 1 person does 150% damage (instead of 200%) and heals 5% of Illaoi's missing hp.

3 tentacles hitting 1 person does 175% damage (instead of 300%) and heals 5% of Illaoi's missing hp.

4 tentacles = 187.5% damage

5 tentacles = 193.75% damage

6-100 tentacles hitting 1 target does ~200% damage.

I think she has the most diminishing returns of any champion in the game.

LordGeovanniNov 8, 20171 votes

im not talking about damage like at all.

0racle0912Nov 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Illaoi lands E when fighting her laner or is getting ganked? She will probably win or has a good chance.

Usually, yes. That's why you pick someone who can bully you back so you can't get in range of the vessel to actually use it for something when up against her. She is actually really easy to counter if you know her kit well.

Illaoi misses E? She is getting a gray screen as she has no realistic fighting chance vs most champions.

False. Her E isn't that good tbh. It sure helps a lot if you go all in and ult, but even if you miss you still can do a ton of damage and heal a bunch too. Too avoid missing it, just use it in melee range and bait the enemy champ(s) into a bush, E right into them basically, then ult and there ya go. You should rarely use her E at max range imo since it probably won't do anything anyways if they are that far from you.

What Illaoi gains from landing E: 1 extra tentacle from ult, a guarentee slam if she ults, a copy of the enemy champion that will transfer damage and with ult cause the enemy to take more than 100% damage when both of them are hit, and most importantly another target to heal off of.

As I said, it's really not that critical, but it sure helps.

Illaoi if she misses E then ults? She has to pray to her god that the enemy has no CC and that her W doesnt keep cancelling, and that she doesnt die before she can kill her enemy.

That's why you bait their cc out of them first if possible, or use your ult to dodge it (idk how to word this, but to become unstoppable). Honestly, to play illaoi properly, you really need to be good at baiting things out. If you can properly use your ult, with or without E, your team will 100% wipe out pretty much any team comp. Don't just run into a fight, but try to flank or have your team bring the fight to you, it works a whole lot better.