Yasuo is a douche

Succubús GF·Mar 17, 2016·7 votes·1,114 views

I dont even care if i get downvoted. Just a douche champion. Annoying to lane against. Annoying to versus against in ANY circumstance. Kit overloaded Af <--- feel free to try and argue this point. Just overall an annoying champion. I would lane against katarina, zed, whoever. Just Yasuo is the one champion I just hate and also yasuo players have a tendency to have bm :^) bc they are scrubbykins :D I also wish Riot would stop investing so much time into Yasuo. You can only make so much profit off of a champion, Riot >:U

25 Comments

NahuiMar 17, 20163 votes

Remember that overloaded and OP are not always the same. Sure, he has a lot of stuff in his kit, but he's still perfectly balanced. Most of his things simply make him annoying, but have easy and abusable counterplay.

Succubús GFMar 17, 20162 votes

He has too much in his kit tbh. It is really undeniable.

NahuiMar 18, 20162 votes

Well, what is too much? He has a lot of "stuff" yes. He's got double crit, a targeted dash once per target, a long cd projectile block, a shield built by movement and procced by any instance of damage, and an ult only activateable on knock up giving armor pen and a knock up.

But break down all of this list into the "why" and the counterplay to each bit and suddenly you just have lots of little things that aren't so bad. His crits all deal less damage, 10% less which is significant when it comes to a crit. His shield is proc'd by any damage champion wise so all one has to do is sling some auto attack or spell and half of his passive is now dormant until he earns it back. His windwall has a long cooldown and can often be baited easily. Baited though is subjective, so stixk with the CD. Long CD on one of his two defensive options. However by options, it really is only one because he can choose to activate wall. His shield isn't reliable as defensive. His dash is a niche spell. He can only dash once per target every so often. This excels in minion lines, as it is meant to, but is very very lack luster anywhere else as he dashes once doing magic damage on an AP scaling ability, so no damage really. His ult is CC however only activateable on knock up. Unlike just about every champion in the game, he cannot use his ult on demand. He needs a knock up or else a lot of his power is gone. His only knock up is gated by a 3 charge system that requires melee range of something and is a skillshot. Unless comboing with the dash and Q.

Basically, all of his "overload" has a reason and counterplay. Take anything out, and you will have an awful champion. You want the current Yasuo. Name anything you want gone and they will take that equal power and put it into some part of his kit you dont want stronger. You don't want Q's base damage to go up, you don't want his shield regen to go up, you don't want windwalls duration or CD to go up and down respectively. You don't want him doing normal crit damage. You don't want him having a lower dash refresh rate.

If a champion's win rate is slightly under 50% and is the 21st best in his role, do you think his overloaded kit, so to speak, needs to be nerfed? What will that mean for the champion?

Succubús GFMar 18, 20161 votes

Let me just ask, do you play Yasuo/ enjoy playing against one? His crit is at 100% with like 2 items, which is more than any adc can say, idrc if it is 10% less damage, it is still a fucking crit, and it hurts. His ultimate, don't even act like it is so hard. He gets his tornado like every 2 seconds, AND if you have a support alistar, or a vi jg (or ANY CHAMPION WITH A KNOCK UP ((THERE'S LIKE 20+))) his ult can just be activated as initiator and it is complete bullshit. I NEVER said "aw nerf yasuo qq" but his kit, is fucking annoying AS HELL and is downright stupid. I know without something in his kit, he will become significantly weaker (just like why riot won't nerf kata's shit too much because then nobody would play her ) But honestly, is a million fucking dashes, NECESSARY? Let's just go back to katarina for a second. Her shunpo is about what? 9-14 second cd? Ignoring resets. Yasuo, gets her shunpo like every 0.5-0.1 second. WHY? It just seems stupid. He is annoying to lane against. Moreso than ANY champion. I can honestly say i don't mind laning against any champion as long as I don't see yasuo. When I see him I actually can't have fun because he is so stupid. Like yeah, I will take malz or swain to lane and curbstomp him a few times, but is it even wurf? Am I even happy? No, I just feel like the game hopefully ends faster so I stop seeing %%%suo.

NahuiMar 18, 20161 votes

But he doesn't get a million dashes. That's in special case scenarios. Someone like Leblanc gets a million dashes because she can do it any time anywhere. Yasuo has to use creep lines. Fight Yasuo anywhere else and he's got a single, weak dash. Targeted for that matter. That's the balancing point. Very effective conditionally in certain stretches of the map. However most of the map, he gets a couple at most.

He's annoying to play against, but easily countered. I love playing vs Yasuo. I play zed. Just throw a Q to keep passive down and dodge the knock ups. Or play other poke champions. He has realistic counter play. Lots of champions are annoying but Yasuo is balanced. Definitely balanced. You make changes to kits when they are broken, not when they're annoying to some.

Mecha MaIphiteMar 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Annoying to versus against in ANY circumstance.

not as the jungler

Succubús GFMar 17, 20161 votes

Elaborate?

Mecha MaIphiteMar 17, 20162 votes

He's one of the easiest champions to gank.

He has to go in really deep to do his damage, and his escape is really unreliable compared to other melee assassins. Unless you're a jungler who needs to land a skillshot like LeeSin or Amumu , he's a bag of gold.

DrNovaMar 17, 20161 votes

I just go morg mid, poll him all day, bait his wall, and shield his knockup.

Easy lane.

HildebrandMar 17, 20161 votes

Honestly the thing I really just don't get with Yas is the double crit chance, like, there is no reason for it, it was so strong that they had to lower his crit damage to compensate.

It's not like he didn't come with a strong passive already in the form of the wind shield, it's not like he couldn't get damage from his abilities, but the double crit-chance is just there and I have no idea why.

I don't even hate him that much, just WHY

NahuiMar 17, 20162 votes

Nah. They gave him double cirt chance because his Q scales on attack speed. Since his whole strength lies in how often he can Q, people need to build attack speed. This severely lowers his damage, though. So, they gave him double crit in response to how he is gated into building lower damage. This synergizes with the attack speed items, however they slapped on a crit nerf because in testing I'm sure they saw it as a little overbearing.

HildebrandMar 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nah. They gave him double cirt chance because his Q scales on attack speed. Since his whole strength lies in how often he can Q, people need to build attack speed. This severely lowers his damage, though. So, they gave him double crit in response to how he is gated into building lower damage. This synergizes with the attack speed items, however they slapped on a crit nerf because in testing I'm sure they saw it as a little overbearing.

Okay, but attack speed and crit almost always come together now, so again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Ruin LanceMar 17, 20161 votes

he literally just fucking said why. i'm not sure if you understand how weak he would actually be if he didn't have double crit.

NahuiMar 18, 20162 votes

Because try building 2.5 attack speed on a champion without natural onhits and see how much damage you do. It's why his ult gives armor pen as well.

It's also a check and balance. Think about it. Wouldn't 2.5 attack speed yasuo be a little too much in that he would stream Q's and instantly get his knock up? By giving double crit chance, sure he hits max crit quickly however this bars him from continuing. Once you hit 100 or even like 90 crit, you have to stop building AS items because you'll get too much crit and waste gold.

HildebrandMar 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because try building 2.5 attack speed on a champion without natural onhits and see how much damage you do. It's why his ult gives armor pen as well.

It's also a check and balance. Think about it. Wouldn't 2.5 attack speed yasuo be a little too much in that he would stream Q's and instantly get his knock up? By giving double crit chance, sure he hits max crit quickly however this bars him from continuing. Once you hit 100 or even like 90 crit, you have to stop building AS items because you'll get too much crit and waste gold.

Let me see if I understand you right, the plan, according to you, was to lower Yasuo's ability to preform knockups, (a strength of his,) y making him stronger?

Honesty, I think you are inherently misunderstanding what I'm saying here. I am NOT saying that They should remove Yasuo's double crit. I am asking why it exists in the first place, there are a ton of more direct ways of balancing his power that do not involve giving him the greatest gold efficiency of almost any champion with core items, The gold efficiency of the double crit is so powerful that it currently outclasses Singed with a RoA, Malphite with a Frozen Heart, as well as literally every other champion and their ideal core item, ON ANY SINGLE CRIT ITEM. I honestly cannot see how this is considered a healthy way to balance his power. That is all, however, the responses I've recieved are essentially "...because it's how it is..." Which is inherently cyclical.

NahuiMar 18, 20161 votes

The plan was to force Yasuo to build attack speed to effectively use Q. They realized, however, building only attack speed and crit on a melee adc is awful because he will be squishy and die without doing much. So, they gave him double crit both gating how high his attack speed can get along with giving him the crit he needs to be able to perform damage on the levels of other AD champs.

It may be gold efficient and high power in one aspect of the kit, however his crit damage is lowered and he does have other lack luster spells in his kit that have very niche uses. Other champions like Fizz have similar designs.

HildebrandMar 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The plan was to force Yasuo to build attack speed to effectively use Q. They realized, however, building only attack speed and crit on a melee adc is awful because he will be squishy and die without doing much. So, they gave him double crit both gating how high his attack speed can get along with giving him the crit he needs to be able to perform damage on the levels of other AD champs.

It may be gold efficient and high power in one aspect of the kit, however his crit damage is lowered and he does have other lack luster spells in his kit that have very niche uses. Other champions like Fizz have similar designs.

So, why wasn't the answer to make Attack Speed more effective, but reach a cap sooner, and make individual abilities stronger?

As you said, he is a melee carry, but for a melee carry they gave him a lot of safe ways of doing damage, (long range knock-up, ability to nullify early game poke, ability to block projectiles, and in select situations the ability to pretty much bewilder your way out of any skill shot,) all of these are the defining aspects of his character, a relatively safe melee carry. Therefore, making his power not come from sticking his neck out a little is a waste, (imo,) and the way they balanced it is so ass backwards, so as to not be effective, putting him into a much more difficult to balance position.

NahuiMar 18, 20161 votes

Well you are exaggerating now. He does not nullify any poke. He nullifies a single spell or auto. You simply wait until the windwall is down and you have a looooong window of time to do what you please. His knock up also has to be used carefully. Once he throws it out, you're free to engage as he won't have another, or an ult, for a little while as he has to charge 2 more Q's. He can only dash around in minions.

And why not use double crit? Why should they have made attack speed more effective? I really see no reason he shouldn't have double crit. It's a diverse play style which is what Riot is doing for all these new champions. Even with double crit and this super overloaded kit as everyone complains about, his win rate and performance is just below average. So, this is an indication that there is really no design flaw with Yasuo. His kit is all situational with abuseable cooldowns. All melee ADCs have innate tanky abilities, from Yi's alpha strike and meditate to Xin zhao's heal to Fiora's Riposte and healing. Yasuo's happens to be a passive shield and a long CD projectile block.

HildebrandMar 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well you are exaggerating now. He does not nullify any poke. He nullifies a single spell or auto. You simply wait until the windwall is down and you have a looooong window of time to do what you please. His knock up also has to be used carefully. Once he throws it out, you're free to engage as he won't have another, or an ult, for a little while as he has to charge 2 more Q's. He can only dash around in minions.

And why not use double crit? Why should they have made attack speed more effective? I really see no reason he shouldn't have double crit. It's a diverse play style which is what Riot is doing for all these new champions. Even with double crit and this super overloaded kit as everyone complains about, his win rate and performance is just below average. So, this is an indication that there is really no design flaw with Yasuo. His kit is all situational with abuseable cooldowns. All melee ADCs have innate tanky abilities, from Yi's alpha strike and meditate to Xin zhao's heal to Fiora's Riposte and healing. Yasuo's happens to be a passive shield and a long CD projectile block.

Exaggeration? last I checked, unless you're Brand or such, one spell IS poke early, which on it's own makes my statement true. Again, I don't mind wind wall, I think it actually helped Riot open their eyes to new ways of making champions. I said sometimes with the dash, sometimes is still important. However, Yasuo is innately more Damage resistant than Yi, Xin, Fiora, and others, (Maybe tying with Riven, maybe,) and again, THIS IS NOT A BAD THING, it simply is who he is as a champion. However, the double crit brings nothing to him, no interaction with the rest of his kit, not much variance in build options, (almost no options when behind,) and all in all is rather goofy in it's execution.

There were tons of ways to give him more reliable ways of doing damage, they could have made him crit when passive shield proced, or when he dashed, even when he ults, but instead, they went for the ridiculously gold efficient double crit, and the only justification for it being given, is 1) because that's how it is, and 2) because he would be weak if you flat out took it away.

isn't really a reason it's finagling
well no shit, I'm not saying take it away with no recourse.

NahuiMar 18, 20161 votes

No, one spell is an auto attack. shield is gone with one auto attack. Or spell. Your choice if you wanna use mana or not.

And they gave crit because he's a champion built around attack speed, and attack speed only works if you have crit or onhit. Instead of onhit, they chose crit.

Mal the RedMar 17, 20161 votes

I love taking Singed against Yasuo... He has to dash through my poison trail to get my minions and he's an easy fling-root.

Not to mention Yasuo players are among the saltiest of salt. Salty when they win, and taken to "thought to be impossible" levels when they lose.

Nameless VoiceMar 17, 20161 votes

He has probably the worst-designed kit of any champion in the game. No less than three of his abilities can be used for play negation (which is the most un-fun type of ability in the game.)

Sure, you can beat him - with teamwork - but the entire laning phase vs that guy is you having no fun at all and trying to survive until the parts of the game when he becomes ineffective, unless you happen to be one of the champions who counters him.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 17, 20161 votes

I love going against him as Xerath.

LyndrisMar 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I love going against him as Xerath.

Ever try Vlad vs him? :P Yea get close to me, i dare you

iodyMar 18, 20161 votes

did you know that he was 10 times more op after release but people still outplayed him. now that all his stats have been gutted he is easier to play against.......... get guud?