Assassins are essentially getting huge itemization nerfs because of ADCs

Visigoth·Oct 30, 2015·86 votes·5,020 views

Fuck tons of lifesteal/spellvamp because BT isn't enough I guess. Damage nerfs so you can't burst as hard. Last Whisper only gives armor pen to BONUS armor. Runaan's can crit because we want Kalista to be ebola in its purest state. Tiamat passive removed because fuck Kha'Zix getting isolation. Seriously, the changes right now are so biased towards ADCs, and most of them deliberately fuck over assassins. Might as well remove every assassin if these changes somehow go through. But god damn are these unpolished, thank god they're only the first set of the dozens of changes that happen every season (I mean, just look at last year's preseason and compare it to now or even just the beginning of season 5)

166 Comments

EnosetcOct 30, 201522 votes

don't bother, op

this board has the biggest hate-boner for assassins and would rather see all of them gutted

Akali is SO HOTOct 30, 201530 votes

Sorry bra. Akali is OP and needs gutted asap

Pepe Ahri R34Oct 30, 20153 votes

Akali has 2 useless abilities and is countered by pink wards. The E doesn't do any damage and she doesn't even have an escape like Katarina, Leblanc, Fizz, Ahri, many other mid laners.

Akali is SO HOTOct 30, 201527 votes

woosh

Kat HeadOct 30, 20154 votes

kek

Akali is SO HOTOct 30, 201511 votes

mfw free trinket upgrades so even Bronze 6 players can counter Akali

http://i.imgur.com/RJsSnQA.gif[/img]

Nidalee SO NYAAAOct 30, 20154 votes

Oh stop it Akali has a higher winrate then Nid :P

Akali is SO HOTOct 30, 20155 votes

At least Nid's boobs are safe from nerfs unlike Akali

:^)

Kuroi86Oct 31, 20153 votes

I heard boobs.

[(http://www.deviantart.com/art/Akali-the-Fist-of-Shadows-321151746)]

LankPantsOct 30, 201522 votes

To me it looks like every class that isn't an ADC (and maybe supports) comes out worse from these changes.

Both bruisers and assassins look to be losing some of their itemisation, bruisers lose Tri to ADCs and Black Cleaver to assassins and to a lesser extent they lose Maw to casters like Riv. Assassins do gain BC and Maw, but they look to lose a lot of their other options.

Mage items are getting across the board price increases and they lose out on mana pots, which hurts mages and mage supports disproportionately to other classes.

Tanks lose out on a lot thanks to just how stupid ADC items are going to be. As it turns out an item that makes armour useless and makes HP useless hurts tanks a lot.

Legal WrightsOct 30, 20152 votes

I don't understand how people are so butthurt about the mana pots. I'm SILVER and I know how to conserve mana, so when I see people buy the pots I laugh at them. That's gold that could get an item faster, or a ward. And all that means for me (not buying the pot that is) is that I have to auto attack for a little while. What a nightmare.

Maximum MordeOct 30, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legal Wrights,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gv45aGt1,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2015-10-30T14:15:55.200+0000)

I don't understand how people are so butthurt about the mana pots. I'm SILVER and I know how to conserve mana, so when I see people buy the pots I laugh at them. That's gold that could get an item faster, or a ward. And all that means for me (not buying the pot that is) is that I have to auto attack for a little while. What a nightmare.

Because there are some match ups that shift dramatically if you have the mana to be more aggressive with. Conserving mana is good, have more mana that you effectively use to improve your situation is also good. It isn't cut and dry or else may as well never use spells cause lol I save mana.

Chromatic EagleOct 30, 20151 votes

They said they'll be adjusting mana regen, and tuning flasks and biscuits.

Maximum MordeOct 30, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gv45aGt1,comment-id=000a000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-30T17:35:02.038+0000)

They said they'll be adjusting mana regen, and tuning flasks and biscuits.

Yep, which is why I'll wait and see how it goes. I was just responding to the poster above who was questioning why people would be missing mana pots.

darkmatchwaldoOct 30, 20151 votes

Varus Mid is a perfect example. Sure i could conserve mana, AA to farm mostly and throw the occassional Q poke....Or i could come back to lane with 5 item 2004 and throw Q at my enemy laner every time it's off CD to poke them out of lane very quick.

Meep ManOct 30, 20151 votes

But is that good to go against? I think thats Riot's argument here. Is it fun for a champion designed to be gated around mana to become nearly manaless for a limited time?

darkmatchwaldoOct 30, 20152 votes

That is....a really good point actually. It's kinda BS to be able to get around being mana gated for a measly 175g. I fully support every upcoming change honestly, i think it'll be very refreshing.

CastaneanOct 30, 201515 votes

I'll be honest; I don't care the assassins don't get to build Last Whisper for squishies. That's how it should have been to begin with, really. Assassins are supposed to kill squishies , not Tanks. Letting assassins build Last Whisper to not only get more efficient at killing ADCs and Mages but ALSO letting them murder Tanks? Das not how it should be. Tanks should counter Assassins. So should bruisers.

One could argue that I am a mere Silver 5 Saltpile who hates assassins and wants them dead and gone, since I seem particularly biased due to not even playing assassins... But I'mma disprove that, because I KNOW Assassins are an important role. Assassins have a place in the game, even if I absolutely despise facing the likes of Talon and Yasuo. They also have a really fun fantasy to play; Sneaking around and flanking the enemy team, dispatching key targets in a split-second, then getting out. BUT! Nothing in the "Assassin" fantasy says "Murder everyone". That's god-mode fantasy, and that would only be fun for the player doing it, no one else.

YumaS2AstralOct 30, 201511 votes

Not all assassins have been nerfed. Zed has actualy been buffed. Not only item 3071 is a better item for him now, but item 3157 has been made weaker AND more expensive, discouraging mages to build it on more situations, but unfortunately for them they still need it against Zed.

Zed also really like the extra AD from item 3142 which is now a better overall item for him. He is also not affected by the item 3077 nerfs since he rarely use item 3074 anyway.

Zed also has the Executioner's Calling back, allowing him to fuck sustain-based mages that would normally be counters to him like Vladimir and Swain .

The new item 3153 and item 3035 changes will be a problem for him, though. Overall, I predict that Zed will be the assassin who will be the least negatively affected by the changes.

I am not defending Zed, though. I actually hate when he is viable and strong. He is so much oppressive.

N3mO06Oct 30, 20159 votes

Really I don't know how an assassin can kill an adc with all buff ( damage and mobility for graves, corki) and with this new item , death dance, which reduces all burst of 20% giving also life steal. Litteraly none, between assassin's group, will kill anything. God, zhonyas and death dance, really I prefer to play garen

MrDrBuddOct 30, 20159 votes

I hope this is sarcasm because AD assassins are getting buffed heavily with both item changes and masteries. more flat pen incoming. 20% reduced burst? when im playing rengar or talon there is always plenty of leftover damage from my burst that could of done a ton more damage if they had more hp. however ap assassins do SEEM to be getting a nerf with all the changes.

MealReadytoEatOct 30, 20151 votes

How do the item changes help AD assassins? % Armor pen is worse, all the items give less AD, etc.

Not to mention Death Dance and PD are going to make ADC's all the harder to kill.

I guess crit builds will be the way to go? IE, ER, TF?

Edit - Okay, Maw will make them better VS ap mids.

KaisadiIIaOct 30, 20157 votes

% Armor pen being worse is a good thing. It's ridiculous to give such power to a counter to a counter (armor is a counter to physical damage-heavy champs/compositions, and armor pen is a counter to abusing armor). Right now Last Whisper is mandatory on basically any AD champion; that just shows up how utterly broken it is nowadays since it's gold efficient even against champions that haven't built any armor. Now it will be more situationally, still being as powerful against full-armored champions but having no impact against people that don't build any armor (which is logical, you shouldn't be affected by a counter of a statistic you don't actually built).

plantersOct 30, 20155 votes

You forgot to mention how riot is adding more armor pen and how yomuus is getting 35 more AD. on talon and zed it's better to have that raw AD over crit chance for more reliable mid game burst.

Hayaishi2Oct 30, 20158 votes

What does tiamat even have to do with Kha Zix getting isolation? Let alone AD carries.

The only thing that is bias is this topic lmao.

VisigothOct 30, 201511 votes

{quoted}

What does tiamat even have to do with Kha Zix getting isolation? Let alone AD carries.

The only thing that is bias is this topic lmao.

Tiamat AoE kills minions for isolation. Kha'Zix is an assassin. Assassins generally do well against AD carries. If assassins get nerfed at the same time ADCs get buffed, it's going to be hell.

RyzeReworkOct 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Macho King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gv45aGt1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-30T03:12:35.865+0000)

Tiamat AoE kills minions for isolation. Kha'Zix is an assassin. Assassins generally do well against AD carries. If assassins get nerfed at the same time ADCs get buffed, it's going to be hell.

I believe you are wrong assassin's will always be able to 1 shot a carry, old last whisper was more effective against tanks the new Last whisper will be more effective against squishies tiamat will be cheaper and easier to buy and assassin's power lies early to mid game while ADCs lie mid to late game ADCs almost always out scale assassin's

YumaS2AstralOct 30, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Godlike Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gv45aGt1,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-30T11:00:00.967+0000)

I believe you are wrong assassin's will always be able to 1 shot a carry, old last whisper was more effective against tanks the new Last whisper will be more effective against squishies tiamat will be cheaper and easier to buy and assassin's power lies early to mid game while ADCs lie mid to late game ADCs almost always out scale assassin's

Actually, old Last Whisper was extremely effective against both tanks and squishies.

The new Last Whisper is of little use against squishies. It is much more effective against tanks, but only if they stack armor.

RalanrOct 30, 20158 votes

Maybe assassins will get a rework after marksmen.

PiVoRxOct 30, 20155 votes

you mean year or half of whole role being garbage?

BluePolarizerOct 30, 20152 votes

All assassins are now balanced around being bot lane supports. gg.

LitoJOct 30, 20157 votes

Don't forget the sudden Zhonya nerfs on AP and armor. You know, those two stats good against AD's?

KaisadiIIaOct 30, 20153 votes

More like those 2 stats. It doesn't have any more stats.

*And AP is not a good stat against AD. It's just a good stat for you.

SquidblimpOct 30, 20156 votes

Youmuu's Ghostblade got a huge buff to its AD. Black Cleaver got a decent buff to its AD. Ravenous Hydra remains the same. Warrior enchant remains the same if you're jungling. Bloodthirster still gives tons of AD. IE gives a decent bit less AD now, but this only really affects Yasuo. Essence Reaver should be great on assassins like Talon due to the CDR and mana return. Last Whisper is now a component in 2 (or was it 3?) other large items that give great stats and will help assassins deal with tanks even better.

So, you quite frankly do not know what you are talking about, my friend. Have a nice day.

VermonsterOct 30, 20152 votes

IE losing ad effects (not affects) a lot of champions. not just yasuo. Also Essence Reaver will be terrible on Talon unless you build your talon full crit (it gives cd reduction based on your crit chance.... who builds crit talon?)

CaeziumOct 31, 20152 votes

Could go ER-IE. That would work on him right? You only need 20% crit to get the full possible CDR of ER.

BluePolarizerOct 30, 20153 votes

Ghostblade was essentially increased in price by 700 gold, or 25%.

Why not raise the cost of IE to 4300 gold, buff its AD by 15 and see how ADC players like it?

Fizz is not FishOct 30, 20155 votes

AP Assassins, especially. item 3157 item 3057 item 3089

RocketRelmOct 30, 20155 votes

{quoted}

AP Assassins, especially.

Context: "Seeker's Armguard AP lowered to 20 from 25 Armor lowered to 20 from 30"

"Zhonya's Hourglass Cost increased to 3200 from 3000 AP reduced to 80 from 100 Armor reduced to 45 from 50"

"Rabadon's Deathcap Total cost increased to 3800 from 3500."

MealReadytoEatOct 30, 20154 votes

Mercurial - Now gives 10% lifesteal, cause we want every ADC to get it.

pxstOct 30, 20153 votes

If that's all buffs and items gonna remains , i think i gotta quit league for the next season until adc were less toxic and broken i mean a item actually increase auto attack range and you can attack tower like outside turret range like wtf is dat shit how melees or besides adc able to survive this broken shit

GixiaOct 30, 20152 votes

It increases your AA range for one attack. Then it goes back down to normal. People need to actually READ the items instead of just jumping to conclusions based on half-assed information.

pxstOct 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It increases your AA range for one attack. Then it goes back down to normal. People need to actually READ the items instead of just jumping to conclusions based on half-assed information.

You know one aa seems to be nothing but you can stack quite fast and hit enemy play save underturret with caitlyn heatshot which deals a lot i think it will be hard to survive even i play very passively since her range is soo long it hit even underdeep turret , this IS what I mean

FloooooooooooopsOct 30, 20153 votes

Also the addition of the item giant slayer which means you deal 10% bonus damage with enemies with more max hp than you aka every tank which gives them a hard time.

Kuroi86Oct 31, 20153 votes

Fuck tons of lifesteal/spellvamp because BT isn't enough I guess.

Because Fizz Talon Katarina Rengar are going to give you time to retaliate...

Runaan's can crit because we want Kalista to be ebola in its purest state.

Attack speed reduced to 35% from 70%...

darkmatchwaldoOct 30, 20151 votes

I'm not so sure about that Zed Talon are looking pretty good with these item changes...

ZT XperimentorOct 31, 20151 votes

Yasuo

darkmatchwaldoOct 31, 20151 votes

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah. Also, Bot lane Yasuo is gonna be a lot more viable with marksman playing Top/Mid/Jungle as well. You won't get stuck with no siege for trying to play it.

Yasuo Blitzcrank summoner 14 way too strong.

ZT XperimentorNov 1, 20151 votes

Agreed, yasou is oppressive to play against when he's alone; but when paired with literally any champion that has crowd control, he's next to unstoppable. Too bad riot is pulling the leesin treatment of leaving him unfair as is; yet from what I've read about the beta, he'll have 100% critical chance with only 3000 gold . . . it's disgustingly broken.

darkmatchwaldoNov 1, 20152 votes

.....That's insane.....