No point in practicing with a champ, it might be deleted

DarkinPrime·Oct 17, 2018·2 votes·2,266 views

Seriously, why bother even trying to get really good with a champion? Riot might decide to eat a bowl of stupid one day and delete them completely as a big F YOU, to you, the player.

Its seriously such a bad idea to COMPLETELY change the play style of a champion. If Riot can not figure out how to keep the essential play style of a champion when making changes or balancing, they lack the creativity and skill that deserves money.

They do not deserve players money. They disgust me, and they should disgust you. As a company, they are slow to listen to reason, and they make changes that alienate the player base that made them popular in the first place.

Its like when EA fucked over Mass Effect. They look at this game...people loved it....I KNOW, lets CHANGE the things about it people loved and dumb it down for other players.

Fuck you Riot. Seriously, just go out of business already.

89 Comments

Elite4RunnerOct 17, 201811 votes

How can people play this game for more than 2 weeks without realizing that they are going to have to deal with constant change?

It's practically part of the game.

If you can't handle that, stop playing.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

You you kidding me? Constant change is one thing...deleted a champion is something else.

Quiet DudeOct 17, 20182 votes

What champion are you complaining about getting deleted this time?

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

Still Aatrox. Obviously

Quiet DudeOct 17, 20184 votes

Oh, you mean new, awesome Aatrox? I love that guy. Way better than old red-skinned Tryndamere

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

Very funny. Except Aatrox and tryndamere were almost nothing alike

TheSingularityOct 17, 20183 votes

Only in that they were onhit drain tank split pushers with unhealthy play patterns

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

The only reason they were unhealthy if at all, is because Riot couldnt figure out that Aatrox heals needed to be toned down, his ult needed to be a team buff, and he needed damage resistance

TheSingularityOct 17, 20182 votes

A team buff would be pointless because the self buff would in turn need nerfs to compensate. Making him a glorified support. Only he didn't have a suitable kit to be a support. Leaving him as a piss poor top laner with an irrelevant ult until he groups. He didn't get a resistance boost because he instead got the revive.

Even with those changes. He'd still be no different to before. A stat stick.

WilyumOct 17, 20184 votes

Then only play recently new or reworked champions? I mean it's not inherently wrong to update champions, Taric for example is much better off and more viable than he used to be, same with someone like Urgot. There are tons of champions who are not even on the radar for being changed, just play one of them. Why play outdated kitted champions anyways, before the Urgot rework he was never played that's why they updated him

Myren QuiddleOct 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Then only play recently new or reworked champions? I mean it's not inherently wrong to update champions, Taric for example is much better off and more viable than he used to be, same with someone like Urgot. There are tons of champions who are not even on the radar for being changed, just play one of them. Why play outdated kitted champions anyways, before the Urgot rework he was never played that's why they updated him

Exactly. Talking about Aatrox, he was changed 'cause his abilities didn't fit him as a person, like, not at all. Nobody played him but everyone cried when he got reworked 'cause ''they liked him so much''. Well, why didn't they play him then?

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

We did. Are you kidding me? Aatrox mains were vocal for YEARS, and put him in the radar in the first place. The people who complained about him played him a lot. You dont have a fucking clue about what you are talking about.

Myren QuiddleOct 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We did. Are you kidding me? Aatrox mains were vocal for YEARS, and put him in the radar in the first place. The people who complained about him played him a lot. You dont have a fucking clue about what you are talking about.

Okay I'm not even going to respond to you normally as you're just insulting. Try to be nicer :/

DarkinPrimeOct 19, 20181 votes

Because you are mouthing off about things you dont understand.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20182 votes

UPDATE is not the same as DELETE. They DELETED Aatrox.

I ENJOYED Aatrox. Its not of your god damn business if i wanted to play "out dated champs", and furthermore, why are we as players validating Riot' decision to make champions that are so fucking complicated, it takes MULTIPLE PARAGRAPHS TO understand a single ability?

This over complication of champions, which do too much in too many areas, leads to unforseen balancing issues, making the game much hard to balance.

WilyumOct 17, 20186 votes

They didn't delete Aatrox he still exists. They changed him yes, but not delete LMAO. It's not my business you're right it's the business of a Billion dollar company called Riot Games. How is Aatrox complicated? The paragraphs are there to inform you or you could just watch the 1min long video of his spotlight. The balance is not thrown off by reworks or overcomplicating. The balance is thrown off by overcompensation and overloaded kits, in my opinion. You might have liked old Aatrox, good for you, he still had low play rates. Again look at Urgot NOBODY PLAYED HIM, reworked and he was played more, Riot cares about having people play more that's it. They don't care that 10 people liked old Aatrox, they want 100000 people to play new Aatrox

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

He was deleted. I wasnt talking about new Aatrox, I was talking about in general how newer champs are much more complex than older ones.

If you can't follow the train of thought, don't bother responding.

Also, Riot caring about more people playing? Bullshit, there were many ways they could have made old Aatrox popular. They had it in for him for years.

So congrats to Riot. Aatrox play rate is almost exactly the same as Riven play rate. They made a new champion called Aatrox who relied on spamming abilities and doing a flip. Sounds like Riven right? They want new players, so they appeal to literally the lowest common denominator by trying to attract players who get off on mashing a button and seeing their champion do flips in the air.

WilyumOct 17, 20184 votes

No he was not deleted he was changed, his concept and character is the same, his abilities were changed to fit current play styles better. Sorry didn't not realize the new champions were so much harder, have to press 4 buttons to use abilities, have to use a mouse, and has 2 buttons for summoner spells.... Oh wait that's everyone. Xayah is just as complicated as caityln, thresh is just as hard as naut, Azir was released in 2014 and is still considered one of the hardest champions. Comparing new Aatrox to Riven is a cop-out. Besides having a q which can be pressed 3 times and they are not the same. Aatrox at his core is the same as before, hard cc, undying ultimate, healing, limited mobility, can build tank or damage. Ivern is a very simple new champion, they aren't all complicated. If taking 5 minutes to learn a new champions or a reworked champions abilities is too much for you then this isn't the game for you I think

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

No. His old concept was an inspiring leader who thrived in battle against overwhelming odds. Now hes some raging demon.

WTF are you even talking about. Aatrox core is not the same. You said."Aatrox at his core is the same as before, hard cc, undying ultimate, healing, limited mobility, can build tank or damage."

Seriously, you are fucking with me right? First of all, he didn't have an undying ultimate. he had a passive revive that had nothing to do with his ult like it does now. Holy shit, did you even play the old Aatrox? HIS CORE gameplay was deciding how to use his auto attacks. Heal or bonus damage, that was his CORE gameplay. How dare you come on here and try to say his core gameplay is the same. You are so out of line its absurd.

Stop responding to me please, you have no idea what are you talking bout.

ÆtheistOct 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

HIS CORE gameplay was deciding how to use his auto attacks. Heal or bonus damage, that was his CORE gameplay.

So his "core gameplay" was hitting W when you were near death, since after his mini-rework Blood Price didn't have a Health cost and thus there was no penalty to just keeping it on until you needed to heal with Blood Thirst.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

Pff, yes, near death...hit W and win unless you get bursted down or hard CCed

InfernapeOct 17, 20182 votes

HIS CORE gameplay was deciding how to use his auto attacks. Heal or bonus damage, that was his CORE gameplay.

So to stat check or not to stat check?

Moody POct 17, 20181 votes

ogga bogga me skill shot big brain player

WilyumOct 17, 20183 votes

What are you talking about? An inspiring leader? No he was like the embodiment of war and conflict, he was not an inspiring leader, he came to fight for the fight not to lead anyone. I am sorry I said undying ultimate and not ability, his passive made him undying before sorry my bad. His core gameplay was to engage>damage> survive he still does that. I do not think his core gameplay was based on one ability to heal or deal extra damage, thats sily. I clearly have more idea about him than you if you think the only thing that defined his was one ability based on doing extra damage on the third hit or healing on the third hit.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

"On the day of their final confrontation, the Protectorate army found themselves outnumbered, exhausted, and poorly equipped. They braced for inevitable defeat.

Just when all hope seemed lost, Aatrox appeared among the ranks of the Protectorate. With but a few words, he urged the soldiers to fight to the last before throwing himself into battle. His presence inspired the desperate warriors. At first, they could only watch in awe as this unknown hero cleaved through their enemies, his body and blade moving in unison as if one being. Soon, the warriors found themselves imbued with a potent thirst for battle. They followed Aatrox into the fray, each fighting with the furious strength of ten until they had won a most unlikely victory. "

Seriously dude, are you done being wrong? Go away now. You never even read his hold lore, fuck off already

WilyumOct 17, 20182 votes

He was not their leader. He did not inspire them through anything other than his combative prowess. He was the embodiment of combat he only wanted to fight. His bloodlust gave them bloodlust, that does not make him an inspiring leader. Jarvan IV is an inspiring leader, Darius is an inspiring leader, Aatrox inspired by his bloodlust (aka this does not in anyway make him any sort of leader).
He is and never was the leader of anything, all Aatrox ever wanted was combat. It even goes on to say he vanished after that fight, he only shows up for the fight he doesn't care about the people he is fighting with or what he is fighting for he just wants to fight against great odds. "Over time, their memories of battle faded, only to be replaced with a grim revelation: their acts of heroism were, in fact, brutal atrocities committed by their own hands." weird that doesn't sound like inspiration to me, more like bloodlust and white rage.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

[deleted]

WilyumOct 17, 20182 votes

You are trying to say he is no longer that. He is still the embodiment of combat is my point. He doesn't care if he inspires those random people losing the fight, he just wants to fight. Trying to claim he was an inspiring leader and is now just a fighting demon is fundamentally wrong. HE IS THE EXACT SAME. HE LIVES FOR THE FIGHT NOTHING ELSE. That is why he disappears afterward. I am not splitting hairs you are claiming he is now different than before. He has only ever cared about the fight, he didn't care if he inspired those losers, he just wants to fight. THEN NOW and ALWAYS Aatrox lives for the FIGHT.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

I never said he CARED about inspiring others. I said he inspired others. You added in the part about him caring so you can make an argument. You are embarrassing yourself at this point.

WilyumOct 17, 20181 votes

I was saying as that was not his intention while saying he was an inspiring leader alludes to that being his purpose. Regardless, they still serve the same purpose, New and Old Aatrox both seek the thrill of combat and nothing else, a raging demon (a darkin) or an inspiring leader who doesn't care about his followers because he only is there for the fight (a darkin). Either way still just a darkin seekin' a-fightin'.

ÆtheistOct 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I was saying as that was not his intention while saying he was an inspiring leader alludes to that being his purpose. Regardless, they still serve the same purpose, New and Old Aatrox both seek the thrill of combat and nothing else, a raging demon (a darkin) or an inspiring leader who doesn't care about his followers because he only is there for the fight (a darkin). Either way still just a darkin seekin' a-fightin'.

New Aatrox has two reasons for seeking the thrill of combat.

It helps keep his mind off of the madness born of his imprisonment.
He wants to drive all of Runeterra into an equivalent of the Norse Ragnarok, in the hope that he too will die and be free of his curse.

Also, he's not all angry shouts. He has some surprisingly deep introspective lines, mainly in his "long movement" quotes.

"Once in noble battle, I screamed against the silence. I stood as light against the darkness. Now, I serve a new master... oblivion..."
"Dark deeds I will do this day... Though I will carry myself as my former pride dictates!"
"I am but an unholy copy of life... A mockery of its freedom... And born in the cruel betrayal of the noble ideals I would've served."
"I touched the stars, and saw the glorious light of a thousand suns! Now, blinded by this elegance, how could my purpose be anything... but dark..."

WilyumOct 17, 20181 votes

Hey good points, but regardless my point is his point is that he wants combat. Whether he has those motives or not he still wants the combat. But great points

WilyumOct 17, 20181 votes

He is literally Aatrox. You can disagree but Riot and the majority of the community see "new" Aatrox as Aatrox, and the slight minority only sees old Aatrox as "Aatrox". Not that it matters cause the canon is all that matters and new Aatrox is canon.

EleshakaiOct 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

UPDATE is not the same as DELETE. They DELETED Aatrox.

I ENJOYED Aatrox. Its not of your god damn business if i wanted to play "out dated champs", and furthermore, why are we as players validating Riot' decision to make champions that are so fucking complicated, it takes MULTIPLE PARAGRAPHS TO understand a single ability?

This over complication of champions, which do too much in too many areas, leads to unforseen balancing issues, making the game much hard to balance.

I do feel bad for you as it sucks when something you like goes away, but... the old Aatrox was a mess. He was a walking stat-check with no interesting abilities who was built around repeated auto-attacks. Unfortunately, he was simply never going to be balanceable as there were no opportunities for skill expression in his kit. He needed a significant change, and unfortunately a champion that can't be balanced is a liability to the game as a whole..

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

Interesting abilities is subjective. Pray tell how Tryndamere abilities are interesting?

The stat check argument is a fallacy fed to us by Riot to justify their actions. EVERY champion who gets ahead is a stat check.

You can shut down fed Aatrox with Hard CC, or items, summoner spells or champions that slow attack speed. He was ridiculously easy to shut down.

His entire kit was skill expression: He was the only top laner that didn't have at least ONE of the following built into his kit:

True damage %health damage Burn or bleed damage Armor pen A shield block or parry Passive resistances

He didn't do that much damage, an was entirely based on auto attacks unlike say Jax, who could leap in, and do massive bonus damage and just burst you down.

He had no way to mitigate INCOMING DAMAGE with a shield block or parry unlike Fiora Pantheon Riven Yasuo Tryndamere Jax and others.

Everything about playing him was exposure and dicey judgement calls and making sure you reading your team correctly because if they don't follow up after a good engage while you are reviving, its a waste and you die

His entire kit pulled in every direction. There was no one build that worked most of the time unlike other damage melee champions. You had to decide what you were going to give up every match. Aattack speed, AD, armore, health, tenacity? He needed all of the desperately. He didnt get to scale passive resistances like Jax based on buying damage items.

Only people who ever tried to main him and climb out of low elo know how much skill he took. Your position alone shows me your very limited experience, and you really have no business commenting at this point.

EleshakaiOct 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Interesting abilities is subjective. Pray tell how abilities are interesting?

The stat check argument is a fallacy fed to us by Riot to justify their actions. EVERY champion who gets ahead is a stat check.

You can shut down fed Aatrox with Hard CC, or items, summoner spells or champions that slow attack speed. He was ridiculously easy to shut down.

His entire kit was skill expression: He was the only top laner that didn't have at least ONE of the following built into his kit:

True damage %health damage Burn or bleed damage Armor pen A shield block or parry Passive resistances

He didn't do that much damage, an was entirely based on auto attacks unlike say Jax, who could leap in, and do massive bonus damage and just burst you down.

He had no way to mitigate INCOMING DAMAGE with a shield block or parry unlike and others.

Everything about playing him was exposure and dicey judgement calls and making sure you reading your team correctly because if they don't follow up after a good engage while you are reviving, its a waste and you die

His entire kit pulled in every direction. There was no one build that worked most of the time unlike other damage melee champions. You had to decide what you were going to give up every match. Aattack speed, AD, armore, health, tenacity? He needed all of the desperately. He didnt get to scale passive resistances like based on buying damage items.

Only people who ever tried to main him and climb out of low elo know how much skill he took. Your position alone shows me your very limited experience, and you really have no business commenting at this point.

Honestly, I'd argue Trynd is in the same category. One that likely needs a bit of a rework due to being a major stat check. "His entire kit pulled in every direction" was actually another part of the problem. His kit was completely incohesive and made no sense.

You're acting as though situational blocks/stuns/etc. REDUCE skill expression, which is a fallacy. I played an AoS style map on WC3 that had a character who was just a walking bundle of passive effects. Sure i enjoyed it, but there was no skill in it. If I got ahead, I won and won hard. If I got behind, I lost and lost hard. Because there was nothing about my kit that I could use to do anything impressive. This is a lot like Aatrox.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

skill expression. Stat check. I am really tired of people throwing around these phrases when they have no idea what they mean. Just to sound smart.

Have you not played this game? Most matches when a team is behind they lose hard, or win hard if they are ahead. So what? Thats most matches and every champion. Aatrox is not special in this area.

EleshakaiOct 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

skill expression. Stat check. I am really tired of people throwing around these phrases when they have no idea what they mean. Just to sound smart.

Have you not played this game? Most matches when a team is behind they lose hard, or win hard if they are ahead. So what? Thats most matches and every champion. Aatrox is not special in this area.

I'm kind of tired of people assuming I don't know what I'm talking about simply because I disagree with them, but that's what it means to deal with the toxic element of this community.

Moody POct 17, 20181 votes

taric was deleted, not remotely similar now

RalanrOct 17, 20184 votes

Heal, stun, stats that have armor scaling.

There’s no denying he’s different but he definitely has similarities, just twisted into different ways of using them.

Moody POct 17, 20181 votes

old taric was a buff support that countered AD

new taric is a generalized tanky enchanter

ÆtheistOct 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GpLNiLZ2,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T18:02:28.756+0000)

old taric was a buff support that countered AD

new taric is a generalized tanky enchanter

"Buff support that countered AD"

What is Bastion? (That's Taric's new W, FYI.)

Moody POct 17, 20181 votes

armor aura vs a shield and armor for 1 person

new taric is a generalist

KovaxzOct 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GpLNiLZ2,comment-id=000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T18:12:08.363+0000)

armor aura vs a shield and armor for 1 person

new taric is a generalist

Except not. He's still an ad counter pick against a heavy as team, scales better now, and has more appreciation for his skill use now. The old taric was a glorified aura mage with a point and click stun. He's more specialized now the. He was in the past.

Better JunglerOct 17, 20183 votes

In a literal sense, ZERO champs have been deleted in 9 years of this game.

But with the petty argument you're trying to make... Champs usually retain the kit/playstyle between reworks.

Usually its the unhealthy parts of a kit that get removed/changed. Look at aatrox. He's an extended range melee attacker with life steal, and a ressurect mechanic.

Old aatrox was bland and uninteresting (hence his EXTREMELY low playrate.) so they updated him to make him more interesting to play with/against. He is still extended range melee attacker, with lifesteal, and a ressurect. just now he has 3 knock-ups in the form of a skillshot. We see him almost every game now.

I think you're mad about him actually requiring some skill now lol.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

"Old aatrox was bland and uninteresting" That is subjective and attributing that to low play rate is merely correlation.

His low play rate was due to him being WEAK. His passive revive was not good enough to compensate him for having no passive resistances in his kit, or a way to mitigate incoming damage like a block, shield or parry, and also his kit lacking built in damage in the form or armor pen, bleed or burn, true damage or % of health damage, which nearly every champion has some of.

There were a million ways Riot could have made old Aatrox better and more fun to play, but they chose the easy way out. Also, he is not a melee attacker. He sticks people every now and then for % health damage, as part of a combo, but doesht just wail on people. he doesnt have built in attack speed or build attack speed items anymore

I'm mad because I enjoyed the old Aatrox and now hes gone. Its that simple.

Better JunglerOct 17, 20183 votes

No one can fault you for being mad. You can be furious and vent your rage all you want.

I was in a similar mood when they made rengar's TERRIBLE rework.

The problem is when you become an asshole to everyone else, and start talking shit about the company that's keeping this game up for us. Riot almost completely avoids communicating on the boards because every time they say something, people are saying they should be fired from their jobs, and some even go as far as death threats over stupid shit. They used to talk to us all the time back in the day, and communication between players and riot was great. These last two years people have driven them off the boards.

Be mad, that's completely within your rights.

Fuck you riot, seriously go out of business already

Is childish and not going to get your point heard.. And it shouts over other's VALID questions/opinions that would love to see red-text eventually.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

Its not. If Riot created these boards and couldn't handle the players, I blame Riot. They must have consistently made asinine decisions to upset so many people to that degree.

And I will talk shit bout the company. If you ever read marc merrill blog years ago, the level of ego and contempt he had for players was right there between the lines.

My valid opinions on Aatrox for years were ignroed by Riot. Now that they have deleted them, they don't deserve any respect from me. They even literally lied to me and said that they polled aatrox mains to get feedback before the rework.

Better JunglerOct 17, 20182 votes

Your "valid opinions on aatrox" contradict the stats.

He wasn't popular because his kit was not interesting. They made his kit interesting and now he's in almost every game I play.

They never "deleted" the champ, they updated him, if you don't like the updated version of him.. dont play him... Simple.

You can resort to talking shit and placing blame on the company.. but they took one of the champions THEY created, noticed he wasn't doing well with the playerbase, and updated him to make the playerbase like him more. If they decide that the update failed, (which it didn't) they will revert it, just like they did with Leblanc, and Rengar. (two champions I played HEAVILY before they reworked them, and haven't touched since)

You don't own aatrox.. You don't know Marc Merrills contempt for the playerbase off of a blog post, and you don't get to justify being an asshole because of your over-inflated sense of self worth.

They almost always go to the mains of the champ before a rework. They went to Tf Blade for Irelia and Akali. Every major yasuo change they put through, they ask Yassuo for his opinion. Why would they ask you? Not rank shaming, just pointing out that you're silver 4. So they would get very little HELPFUL feedback from you.

Tl:Dr Your opinion isn't important. Statistics are. Players are picking, banning, and enjoying Aatrox after his successful rework. You don't get to say Riot is lying, or Merrill hates his playerbase because you have no evidence for that. They didn't ask your opinion because you're silver 4 and likely couldn't provide any helpful ideas that a Diamond+ player could offer.

DarkinPrimeOct 17, 20181 votes

"He wasn't popular because his kit was not interesting" Okay, prove that. I will wait.

In the meantime, I know a close friend of marc, and he confirms he is indeed an ego maniac and a d-bag.

I get to say all of the things I said. I just did. And I will keep doing it. I guess if YOU don't like it you don't have to read my posts or comment on them.

And yes, he is deleted. Its not the same champion at all. You can call it what you want, but the reality is if they rolled out that champion while the old Aatrox was still around, you would have said "oh look a new champion, a different kind of darkin". You wouldn't have said "hmm that just seems like an updated version of Aatrox" And you know this is true.

Also, this isnt' my only account. Also, if only high elo players opinion matters...then why not just go even higher. Hell, why not just made decisions based ONLY on the HIGHEST level of play....oh shit, wait....