Remember when you actually got punished for running full AD teams

FalconPawwwwnch·Feb 6, 2017·150 votes·5,657 views

Good times

105 Comments

WoonStruckFeb 6, 201763 votes

Remember when Riot gutted Malphite and Rammus for actually punishing full AD teams?

Bad times.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

LegendmakerGXFeb 7, 201713 votes

{quoted}

Remember when Riot gutted Malphite and Rammus for actually punishing full AD teams?

Bad times.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

I remembered that especially Rammus, Rammus was getting popular in the pro scene and knowing Riot balance team they ended up nerfing him more.

Shen Maokai Nautilus always get nerf because of the pros, I'm just amazed that they have not been nerf again yet because of the recent tops using them. The problem I hate Riot balancing team is because they balance around LCS/LCK and usually these 3 are doing what they are suppose to do which is tank and CC.

TwinkieProFeb 7, 20172 votes

To be fair, Maokai has been doing more than just tanking.

DeusVultFeb 7, 20179 votes

But he's not though.

He builds no damage item, he builds item 3068 to augment his DPS, but he only really deals damage to squishy champs, like those played mid/adc/support. His damage spikes mid game, when his opponents have no MR items.

Have you seen his damage vs another tank? Or a duelist champ like Fiora Jayce ? He deals no damage to them, and needs 2v1 or even 3v1 advantage to even kill them.

Tanks have base damages, and if they can land it on squishy champs, then that is poor positioning on the part of the squishy. It shouldnt take 20+ seconds for a tank to kill a squishy when they can survive that long mid game because they are buying items that counter that squishy champ

VekknaFeb 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Tanks have base damages, and if they can land it on ~~squishy champs~~ a mage, then that is poor positioning on the part of the ~~squishy~~ mage.

I fixed this for you. If a magic tank lands their combo on an AD squishy, item 3156 procs, passively saves them, and the AD turns the fight while all the tank's skills sit on cooldown.

SoulsieFeb 7, 20173 votes

To be fair the two of them have really boring and one-dimensional playstyles that don't have that much interaction. Neither one of them are very fun to play as/play against...

Spaceman5pffFeb 7, 20177 votes

Malphite and Rammus are plenty of fun to play.

Malphiteis great fun to teamfight with, about as fun as tanks get, really. Rammus is fun in a trolly, giggly sort of way ZZZOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM

WoonStruckFeb 7, 201710 votes

Camille, Yasuo, Leblanc, etc have very open and varied playstyles. They still don't have that much interaction and are even less fun to play against.

LordGeovanniFeb 7, 20172 votes

would stick Taric in there some where before they gutted him to make him pretty. Jhin runs the melee non assassin balance and re work team

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20172 votes

They gutted Taric with his rework.

His new gimmick ult just got him gutted further; boring gimmick to play anyway now, so I never keep him in mind anymore.

LordGeovanniFeb 8, 20171 votes

@RIot ^^ funny thing is they changed him because people where playing him but now people still arent playing him . I still play him but i play him as a healing bot he is the only champion worth taking item 3504 on due to his aoe heal yea its shit but helps and more importantly i give attack speed to my adc and my fighters who lost every attack speed item for fighters or the ones that are there cant be touched because tank items are so shit you cant build just one or two you need 3-4 to even survive long enough to get two basic attack off. it also gives on hit healing to those with the attack speed buff but i almost never remember that. Taric item 3003 item 3401 item 2045 item 3504 item 3109 (for a fighter in the front line because i main fighters and know they need it more than adcs ) not sure what boots i would get i probably switch between item 3111 and item 3158 and late game sell for item 3065 sure the active is nice but ill be real i never remember to use it with my w and all and even when on another tank i almost never use it. now that item 2303 discrimination is over (not really because of cost increase despite) and it has cdr like the others i may use this next time if i ever get thrown back into support or the role and or tank items get buffed / marksmen and mages get major cross the board nerfs. On another post i talked about all the things he lost Multiperson armor share lower cooldown of stun reliable stun damage on stun 2 other damage spells takes twice as long to deliver damage on passive so if he doesnt hit 2 times with fixed attack speed (which means he cant build any attack speed items) he he lost damage and cd refund on his passive it is a nerf even with hitting both because you now have to take longer to do your combo. lost healing on heal even at full charge heal costs more mana and is a mana drain skill if you dont use it on 3 charges lost armor shread lost team ad and ap buffs which also effected self and enabled solo lane taric top in special situations even if not meta remember what i said about no attack speed items item 3091 bad on him so wits end lost a user already unpopular item whos only users left that can efficently use it with out another item being better for the same thing are braum and leona. he probally the biggest deserver of a champion design revert. but then Ardent Censer loses the only champion its good on. could be good on soraka if she didnt kill herself to heal or had a longer heal range they gimped her range then made her need to kill herself to do it then nerfed the healing also gimped her heal cooldown. they should give her a self speed boost after healing an ally to get to the front line then get back to saftey since she has nothing but healing in her kit it isnt particularly strong and still kills herself to do it.

Fondling GemsFeb 6, 201727 votes

Literally went into a wu top, zed mid, kha jg, jhin adc, camille sup.

I was like: "easy, just build armour."

I was nautilus support, probably did the most on our team just because everyone else got shredded. Only 1 of them had no lethality items (Camille) so our rumble top, Trynd Jg, Diana mid, and Lucian ADC basically had 0 armour even with stuff like hourglass.

Kha even decided to build a black cleaver just to add on to it. It was disgusting, Teamfights would last about 20 seconds, 5 seconds of my team dying then 15 seconds before I would go down. Didn't help that they could just jump on us from anywhere.

Sad thing? Probably one of the best games I have had in months. Why? Because I actually felt like I could tank stuff again. Apparently you have to be vs 5 champs with less magic damage than scuttle to be able to tank. Plus everyone on the team was really nice, even if they had no idea how to teamfight or when to back off.

Supreme Senpai69Feb 7, 20179 votes

Draven/Yasuo/Quinn/Jarvan/Malzahar enemy team today

4/5 built lethality

The other was AP. We had better teamfights but we never got to a teamfight because the second someone was unlucky enough to get in AA range they were immediately destroyed

Fondling GemsFeb 7, 20174 votes

Lethality J4 you say? Time to mix up my AP J4!

ShaolinToiletFeb 7, 20173 votes

Try lethality twisted fate

Spaceman5pffFeb 7, 20179 votes

http://cdn0.dailydot.com/cache/f8/10/f8105af24cc5cd7203a9328b95354f00.jpg

LordGeovanniFeb 7, 20172 votes

when you say you survived 15 seconds i know you mean you were chased by 3 of them while you were running because your team was dead until they finnaly killed you because no way you stood up and fought them and survive more than 3 seconds with all of them on you

Fondling GemsFeb 7, 20172 votes

Generally 2-3 of them would die in exchange for my other 4 allies. As a nautilus who didn't have to build anything but armour and health and all they had to deal with it was a Black cleaver I could definitely stand that long. Especially since Nautilus dishes out quite a bit of damage vs a full AD team without a single lifesteal item. Due to his shield the longer Nautilus lives the more shields he can get up which make him live even longer. Add in a locket, Face of the Mountain, lots of AOE damage which meant they had to back off when low, a sunfire cape on top of that... Well lets just say that the only two of them that could deal more damage to me than I could to them were Kha if I was isolated, and Jhin who I could easily kill if I landed a hook on him.

Wu, Zed and Camille just weren't a huge factor as Nautilus. Camille had true damage but no amrour shred so that is only one bit of noticeable damage every 3-5 seconds which is nothing, Wu has consistent DPS but mana issues and honestly didn't burn me that fast, Zed was laughable. I could tank all of his abilities + ult with just my shield and walk away undamaged.

15 seconds wouldn't be possible in a 1v5, but in a 1v2-3? Easily. Even in a 1v5 (Which I got into shortly before the game ended as they were killing our turrets) I managed to soak a good 5+ seconds, got out on 20% health, soaked a Zed ult shortly after, and walked back to fountain to heal.

SpoofghoulFeb 7, 20173 votes

i can see that happen vs just lethality

but lethality + item 3071 and or item 3036

becomes a whole different level of disgusting

Fondling GemsFeb 7, 20171 votes

For most of the game only Kha had a black cleaver, although by the end there were 3 of them. Their only Dominiks were on Wu and Jhin. Since Wu was their engage he would usually be one of the ones to die and even with a dominiks Nautilus just runs over a Jhin, especially a not that amazing one. Jhin has to get targets low to do damage, Naut's shield basically stops his missing health damage from mattering.

Here is the builds: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/FzFOTbdZ8ZtqouzbLNUITYRCCfyG_UL1KozgcRZ05enO4d1pGiItU1qImCabj88Pjn4l3JVBeI-55w=w1920-h905-rw Pretty sure it is fine to leave the names in there, I am not insulting any of them or shaming them. Everyone was quite polite really, although Jhin and I did most of the talking.

When you have 272 armour, 3,988 health, a 763 damage shield on a 15 second CD, a 665 health shield (locket), a ~400 health shield (face of the mountain) and Ruby sightstone means those are up every fight plus 10% reduced damage from auto attacks vs a team that it almost entirely auto attack dependent wit the exception of maybe Zed, who can't kill a tank normally, much less one that is stacking armour.

I still got a good 122 MR vs any stray magic damage too from the locket + runes. Thing is that their whole builds focused on armour Pen, so I stacked a good chunk of Armour so they wouldn't do much but focused on Health. That is why you don't see anything like a ZzRot or GA in my build. Closest I got to pure resistances was locket and I got that for the shield.

I Like TeemoFeb 7, 2017

so what your saying is.. a Vayne with item 3036 item 3153 and item 3071 would not melt the Ashe off of you? well then

Fondling GemsFeb 7, 20171 votes

? I never said anything about Vayne, a champion specifically built to kill tanks. I fail to see how you comment has any correlation to my comment.

I Like TeemoFeb 10, 2017

"When you have 272 armour, 3,988 health, a 763 damage shield on a 15 second CD, a 665 health shield (locket), a ~400 health shield (face of the mountain) and Ruby sightstone means those are up every fight plus 10% reduced damage from auto attacks vs a team that it almost entirely auto attack dependent wit the exception of maybe Zed, who can't kill a tank normally, much less one that is stacking armour."

that that is how vayne has correlation to your comment... u can be a tank all u want but u are still gonna die.. no one cares what u build.. champs are just better then other champs

Fondling GemsFeb 11, 20171 votes

Except Vayne had nothing to do with the discussion. I specified the entire enemy team, I included a screenshot of their builds, and I was explaining how I was able to tank through in that situation. Vayne's only influence in that game was that she was one of the bans.

I Like TeemoFeb 14, 20171 votes

yea i get that... im saying had she been in the game u woudda died 100x faster

also your build isnt available

LordGeovanniFeb 8, 20171 votes

all of them haveing armor pen lethality and last whisperer i dont think you are getting more than 8 seconds if they really arent even trying to kill you and maybe spamming taunt as they see you try to run

Fondling GemsFeb 8, 20171 votes

Well keep in mind a few things. I listed the build a bit further up this comment tree and while 3 of them had BC by late game only one of them had it until very late game because they were having trouble killing me. Only 2 of them (Wukong and Jhin) had LW items (Lord Dominiks both.)

As I mentioned Jhin gets heavily countered by Nautilus, so he had to stay out of my Q range or generally die between my flat damage, Sunfire cape, and Deadmans.

Wukong often was one of the ones who died in the engage since we would focus they guy ulting all of us. So there wasn't much last whisper armour pen to worry about.

Keep in mind they also all would burn their ults and CD's killing the other targets. This meant that they would have to wait on CD's since my ninja tabi heavily reduced their aa damage. Camille built Trinity and titanic into full tank so she didn't really do much to me. Jhin had to be scared to get within Q range of me. Zed is heavily CD dependent and honestly doesn't do much to tanks anyways.

Also run? Don't be silly, I could easily 2v1 any combo that didn't have Kha in it because that isolation damage hurts. You heaviy underestimate Naut's damage output. He does constant AOE damage, slows, CC, and aoe dots.

DengedenFeb 8, 20171 votes

I was nautilus support, probably did the most on our team just because everyone else got shredded.

There's your problem, you needed to get your team ahead as support.

Sad thing? Probably one of the best games I have had in months. Why? Because I actually felt like I could tank stuff again. Apparently you have to be vs 5 champs with less magic damage than scuttle to be able to tank.

Yes? That's what you want? And that's what the game's been balanced around.

Fondling GemsFeb 8, 20171 votes

First of all I built both a locket and a face of the mountain. If half my team is dying through that in under 5 seconds vs champions with relatively low CS'd like Wukong, Kha, and Camille (Jhin honestly only ulted about half the fights because they would already be over) then there isn't a whole lot else I can do.

We also had no other real tank, which meant that I was our team's frontline, engage, pick potential, and peel all in one. Everyone else on my team was pure damage. Closest thing was rylais rumble. (Lucian 0 CC, Trynd 1 slow, Diana 1 displacement, Rumble + rylais slows) That is one other champion on my team with hard cc, and Diana's displacement isn't exactly useful vs people who WANT to get close to you.

I also won laning phase with my lucian, hard. Both other lanes and jungle lost. Do I blame them? No, they tried. We all lose sometimes. However it meant that despite having done incredibly well bot lane we were still behind in the game and I can't protect a Lucian vs 4 divers/assassins.

I did everything possible to make up for out deficit. I made numerous picks, cleaned up kills after fights, soloed Zed and killed him, held out base for so long that they killed 6 inhibitors. When is the last time you have seen 6 inhibs get taken down before a team loses? Sure my teamates helped, but the sad fact is that they would get massacred and I spent almost twice as much time alive as any of them. I was the one left holding our base.

Unfortunately there is a limit to how much one can do. I got Lucian over 20 kills, stalled for teamates to revive, pushed back minions, built 2 different items that weren't ideal for the guy who had to frontline for the purpose of keeping my teamates alive. Sure I could have done a couple things a bit better, but in the end I was playing very well that game. Compared to how well I normally do that was just a really good game for me. The fact is that one person isn't enough to win a game.

I am not hating on my teammates, in fact I honored some of them afterwards because they were cool guys who I would love to play again. That being said Top, Mid, and Jungle were all having a bad game, overstaying, or just getting outright blown up before they could do anything about it.

Yes, I do like to be able to tank in LoL. However as I mentioned that is the first time I have felt like a tank in months. It was even in a super extreme situation of them being full AD and building to kill squishies, not tanks, as well as just being a team that isn't good at killing tanks.

I had to play the most extremely tilted in a tank's favour, as one of the two tankiest champions in the game right now, building more tank than support, to be able to tank effectively. Sure, a tank should be dying faster than that in general, but that wasn't a general game. That was like Galio getting to play vs 5 AP dot mages. It is set up for the best possible situation. If they had any AP or even one of them was a real tank killer I would have gotten shredded in those fights too because I barely had any MR.

I would like tanks to be able to tank in general games again instead of dying in 5 seconds because guess what, that isn't fun. I would like to be able to stand in a fight as a guy built to stand in a fight for more than 5 measly seconds.

I also just had fun that game because everyone was nice despite it being ranked. Everyone was cheerful, there never was a surrender vote, which I honestly haven't seen in forever either. I got to sit down and play a game, and even though we were behind almost the entire time it was fun trying to hold out vs the enemy as a united team. I used to have that experience a lot in League. I am finding it less and less these days. I still play league, I still find it entertaining, but it isn't the game I loved and it isn't the game that turned me from a self loathing humanity despising person into a guy who stops to talk to chat with homeless people and give them a few bucks because they are probably lonely and just want some company.

League just isn't the same game it was and while it will always be important to me and hold a special place in my heart I am just finding it difficult to keep enjoying a game that has changed from a mid paced strategy game into a fast paced killfest. I got to play the assassin mode on PBE and just thought "This is fun, but it is basically just a constant normal teamfight with an invisibility gimmik." Despite all the buffs and the fact that everyone was on squishy assassins it didn't feel substantially different from the base game and that makes me sad.

*ahem*

Sorry, got off on a bit of a tangent there and started rambling. Basically I love League and still enjoy it, but I enjoy being able to actually fulfill a role that isn't just "kill them first" which League has heavily been moving away from recently.

AhristocatsFeb 6, 201718 votes

black cleaver shreding armor for you and your allies

what a great idea

XeroKimoFeb 7, 20173 votes

It's like Abyssal increases magic dmg dealt on near by enemies by 10%, what a great idea, it's an effective increase of nearby allies AP by 10% and base dmgs by 10% 10/10

LordGeovanniFeb 7, 20173 votes

it is a good idea but its twice as strong as it needs to be and at the same times tank items are weaker as hell at the same time the avg cooldown on ranged carries needs to go up and the average cooldown on some melee tanks skills need to go down

I Like TeemoFeb 7, 20172 votes

have u ever sen a teemo build like this? item 3153 item 3071 item 3085 item 3151 item 3036 item 3006 ? tanks usually end up dead or their whole team focuses him the whole game cuz no one likes dieing to death

XavanicFeb 6, 201714 votes

I've lost so many games because thornmail and ninja tabi along with 3 other armor items don't do enough to stop a graves/yasuo/darius and jinx (or any other combanation of ad champs that have darius or yasuo) when their all in one game, imo thornmail needs to be buffed to like 150 armor, or give like 20% physical damage reduction

RewtFeb 6, 20172 votes

Hp..... you should get about 200-250 armor and then build HP due to diminishing returns and how lethality is now base armor pen. Most builds will run people into about 40-60 armor pen if they go Lethality heavy. so if you are a tank get Health/Armor hybrid items and get to about 250 armor and 4k hp. then you will be min maxing your build and will find that you are suprisingly tanky against those champions. (except 40min plus jinx..... she is a hyper carry. her purpose is to shred literally everything. including tanks)

FelvyneFeb 6, 20172 votes

But other three armor items probly means at least two of these: item 3068 item 3143 item 3742 , this considering he algo built item 3110 (but probly not). And that's a good chunk of health

WinTheWarOnPantsFeb 6, 201712 votes

I really miss when item 3075 wasn't complete garb Q.Q RIP Its not like it was ever OP or anything(except maybe on Rammus but that's another thing) it countered full AD and snowballing AA champs like MasterYi Jax Vayne Yasuo to keep them from totally face-rolling, but they can still work around it by getting life steal.

VenomarFeb 7, 20179 votes

It's pretty sad. Armor and AD should scale linearly but with armor shredding and lethality and pen and everything else AD out scales armor so hard it isn't even funny, and it scales even harder the more of both you have and the longer the game goes. You can spend 5,000 gold on armor and have 90% of it negated. The only way to get ahead with armor is to actually get ahead and stack armor faster than they can stack pen.

Think about it this way, item 3036 becomes one of the most gold efficient items in the game once your target has more than ~90 bonus armor. The more you counterbuild AD and the more armor you stack, the more efficient you make your enemies item purchases.

Little back asswards idn't it?

We are getting to a point where health stacking with a little bit of armor is going to become a better counter than armor itself, which means the design is flawed.

KynamiFeb 7, 20172 votes

With enough lethality BorK's passive isn't getting countered by armor purchases hard enough... at which point health stacking just opens you up to being a massive health drain target for the opponent.

Sraeg2013Feb 7, 201710 votes

You know what I remember?

Pantheon item 3071 LeeSin Talon Draven Sona item 2045

Good old times.

Leo1024Feb 6, 20178 votes

don't forget how if you had more than 2 tanks you instantly lost

LightIsMyPathFeb 7, 20178 votes

An AD/lethality hate train? I'm in, here's my ticket!

AcidTheWarlockFeb 7, 20178 votes

Lethality buffs shouldn't have been so drastic. Keep it weaker like after preseason and make other assassin items stronger. Also, Edge of Night is ridiculous now.

Even the LCS casters say it.

Spaceman5pffFeb 7, 20177 votes

To be fair, LCS caster say lots of things, some not even words.

LordGeovanniFeb 7, 20173 votes

edge of night is an activateable spells sheild that you so it cant be popped when waiting for a good time to fight but it has less cooldown than the other spell sheild whos item also has shit stats because it has a spell sheild on it.

DunkinNoobsFeb 7, 20176 votes

All AD teams tend to do a lot worse when you don't feed the shit out of them. Unfortunately, people see all AD and assume they get a free win so they feed their asses off and lose long before the armor stacking comes into play.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 7, 20175 votes

full ap gets so fucked unless you have someone like syndra that just knocks you back every time you get close to her. last game we solely won because enemy team was full ap with a corki . i had 250 mr. the only time i die is when malzahar ults me but i can stand 1v4 and take focus fire and outheal with my Q as darius.

full ad doesn't get punished because black cleaver and other pen items. also generally enough attack speed and crit is good enough anyway even against tanks. they eventually die if u have lifesteal