Here's what I like about Zyra and what I don't, with a proposed rework as well

The Bearded Bard··20 votes·1,650 views

What I like about Zyra:

  1. Flexible pick, can mid, support, even works as a decent anti-melee top laner.

  2. Quite a bit of CC. Makes sense with her plant theme.

  3. Choice between long range plant and short range plant with a slow.

  4. How her plants are spawned. Way cooler than Heimer just planting his minions or Malz just spawning his.

  5. Her ult. Despite many people complaining about the delayed damage and then the delayed cc, this ult is fantastic.


Here's what I think needs changes:

  1. The passive. I've stood up for this passive for the longest time, saying how good it is with your built in cc, saying how easy it is to pick up kills with, saying how it can even clear waves after death, but it's time for a new one. I still think the passive is really good, I just think it's extremely clunky and feels bad to use.

  2. Frontloading all of her damage onto two spells.

  3. Frontloading all of her mana costs onto two spells.

  4. Free stats to justify a weak spell. It's just lame, and the amount is almost completely useless. 10% at level 18. That means for the majority of the game I can't have full cdr because I'd be wasting the free stats I get.

  5. Plants are great, but only having two at a time (most of the time) and having them deal a shit ton of damage isn't super exciting. I'd rather have a ton of plants that do a small amount of damage than one or two doing a lot.

  6. Lack of poison anywhere in a champion whose theme is plant woman.


Here's my proposed rework:

Passive: Rampant growth: Every fourth spell cast you spawn a plant. The plant you spawn is decided by which spell you cast as your fourth. Multiple plants attacking the same target deal significantly less damage.

Moving her W to her passive gets rid of the old one and opens her W up for another damaging move, which means you can spread the damage between Q, E, and plants out so you're not destroying someone with just a QE combo. This also allows her to have three different plants instead of just two.

Q: Deadly Bloom: After a short delay, Zyra spawns thorns at target location. If this spell would trigger Rampant Growth, a plant grows for every enemy champion hit, capping at four plants. In addition, a plant will appear in the center of Deadly Blooms aoe regardless if a champion is hit or not.

This spell is essentially the same, but with a lower cooldown, lower mana cost, and lower damage. The goal here is to do less damage with the Q, but be able to use it more to get more plants out. The plant spawn is also the same, but lower the damage. Numbers can always be changed but I was thinking cooldown it would change from 7-5 seconds with a drop of .5 seconds per level to 7-3 seconds with a drop of 1 second per level. For the damage drop I was thinking the base drops from 70-210 with an increase of 35 per level to 60-200 with an increase of 35 per level, then decrease the AP ratio from 65% to 45%.

For the plant spawn, I was thinking of lowering the base damage from 23 + 6.5 per level + 20% AP to 20 + 5 per level + 15% AP.

W: Venomous Barbs: Zyra lashes with vines in target direction, dealing initial damage and applying a poison that slows, cripples, and amplifies damage taken by plants to the first target hit. Each plant auto increases the cripple duration by .25 seconds. If Zyra uses Venomous Barbs to spawn a plant, it spawns a medium range poisonous plant that applies the slow, cripple, and damage amp with its autos. (Note: Every plant can increase the cripple duration of the initial target, but only the poison plant spawned by W can apply the poison to new targets.)

For numbers I was thinking 75/100/125/150/175 + 40% AP with a stagnant 10 second cooldown. The duration of the poison would be 1 second, with each attack from the plant adding .5 seconds to already poisoned targets. Plant range is 600 (between the 750 of Q plants and the 450 of the E plants), damage is the same as Q plant. For reference, a Cripple is a unique crowd control effect that stops the victim from using any gap closers.

A completely new spell with a completely new CC accomplishing many goals. 1. It splits Zyra's power from two spells to three, so all of her damage isn't frontloaded into her QE. 2. It gives her a unique CC that also deals with the complaints of E and R being hard to hit. 3. A new unique plant. 4. A poison move on our lady plant! 5. Gives her a way to deal with mobile champions, particularly assassins. Credit for this wonderful idea goes to LankPants

E: Grasping Roots: Same spell visually but with less scaling damage and a lower mana cost. Would also like to give it a scaling cooldown starting at 14 and going to 10 with a 1 second per level difference instead of its current static cooldown of 12 to make up for the lost passive cdr. Plants spawned will also be the same, except the damage is lowered and a plant spawns for each enemy champion hit when Zyra uses this as her Rampant Growth attack, or spawns one at the last minion hit if only minions are hit.

Damage lowered to the same as Q.

R: Stranglethorns: Again, I love this ability so I'm not going to change much. Just normalize that mana cost to 100 from the 100/120/140 that it is now, then lower the base to 175/250/325 from 180/265/350, lower the ratio from 70% to 60%, and lower the cooldown from 130/120/110 to 120/110/100.

The reason I'm nerfing the damage on the ult is because I'd like it to be less about burst and more about amping your army of plants. With my proposed changes you're gaining a lot more potential plants. It goes from most likely having two to maybe three or four if you're prepping for a tower dive or baron/dragon to having up to three just from hitting all three parts of W, up to five if you land a 5 man E, and Q is on a lower cooldown so you can use that to charge up the passive relatively quickly. I'm also giving it a lower cooldown to make up for the loss of the passive cdr.


So there you have it. My proposed rework keeps her largely the same, but with more opportunities for plants, more overall damage, but with less damage on each spell. It really focuses on the uniqueness of her plants, which is increased even more with the addition of the new W plant.

EDITS: I've changed Q to automatically spawn one plant if used with the passive, and then an additional plant for each champion hit capping out at four plants total if you hit three champions. A wonderful suggestion from Lankpants, I've completely changed my original W idea into a combination of his idea and my own.

27 Comments

Heckin Support8 votes

I honestly think that Illao is basically what Zyra should have been with all of her tentacle interactions.

Cowgirl Ed2 votes

She could mid

The Bearded Bard4 votes

Honestly I don't even think she's a bad mid laner right now. That's my preferred role when I play Zyra.

xSleepy4 votes

had to go mid during my promos, said "screw it lets do it" 8/2/11, led game in damage she could can mid

Shonjl1 votes

Anyone can go any lane if they play the champ enough, doesnt make them a mid laner though. Zyra doesn't really have anything to do at mid lane. She is so entirely revolving around landing the bind to do anythign that without it she doesn't got much going for her, and she doesnt have great waveclear. I just see her being easy to get poked out of lane by other mages and she doesnt have much to escape assassins jumping on her.

I mean you know what you are doing with her so you can get around that but for the average player, she is a support at the most.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Sooo wrong. She's got great wave clear, is essentially undiveable, great poke with WWQ, one of the only champions that can take wraith camp without leaving lane, awesome at farming, and once she hit 6 can easily 2v1 when ganked. She's fine mid lane or support. The proposed rework would still allow her to shine in all the lanes she's good at now as well.

TendajiX1 votes

With the addition of thunderlords she is borderline oppressive mid lol

thepay31 votes

^

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I'll take that as a compliment!

xSleepy1 votes

as you saw on my thread i think she needs a new passive and i think the best way to do it is to move it from the w, just like you said. i don't know if i love the every 4th spellcast thing, as annie already does that and this update will be about diversity, but i love the new w you came up with. it would bring to light more cdr based builds for zyra, so she could get as many plants as possible to take advantage of the w stuff.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I was iffy about the fourth spellcast thing as well, originally I had it on every other, but that's just dumb powerful, then I lowered her cooldowns and made it three spellcasts, still a bit overbearing considering she can get three and five plants off of just one W or E respectively, so I decided on four.

I was more worried about stepping on Malz's toes considering he's the guy with the minion spawn on fourth cast already, but this is way different because the minions themselves are different, and the spells choose where the minion spawns and what type of minion it spawns. As for it being too similar to Annie, I don't see it. Yeah it's on fourth cast, but Annie's is a stun, Zyra's would be a unique minion spawn. Plus, it fits way better thematically on Zyra than Annie. To me, it always seemed like a lazy passive for annie, makes no sense thematically.

Overall, I think as a passive fourth spell cast it works better than a charge system W ability.

EfficientDynamo1 votes

The problem is, we already have a champ that puts out a pet on the 4th cast Malzahar. Also, if you can only spawn plants every 4 casts I don't see how you will end up with having that many more plants in the field, unless you manage to get VERY lucky and hit multiple champs with your abilities.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Cooldowns are all lowered. At level 9, you'd be able to have Q at level 5 which puts it on a 3 second base cd, 1.65 seconds with 45% cdr. E at lvl 5 is a 6.5 second cooldown with 45% cdr. Early game you're most likely going to have less plants because you've got less targets and you might have to conserve it a bit more to save mana, but late game you're all but ensured to have way more plants than you've got now.

I'm not too worried about stepping on Malz's toes for a few reasons: 1. He's getting reworked as well, so he most likely won't even have that passive anymore. 2. Zyra spawns a different minion based on the spell she casts. 3. Zyra can spawn multiple minions. 4. Zyra chooses where the minion spawns. 5. Zyra's are immobile. 6. Zyra's plants have a different health system, don't get more powerful over time, and are basically just completely different in every way.

Even if they're cast in a similar way, comparing Zyra plants to Malz's voidling is silly. It's the same as comparing Ziggs's Q and ZIlean's Q. Both are skillshots, both are bombs, same ability, right? Wrong.

The Evil Spleen1 votes

I like to play her as jungle, this maintains her jungle ability. It gets rid of her passive, her useless w, and supplies more plants. I am also ok with this. I am a little meh about her ult but overall the changes are nice. I am happy.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

One of my goals with this proposed rework was not only to keep her as a jungler an option, but to make it a bit more reliable early game. As of right now, it's decent once you get rolling, but getting there is a problem because of how bad her early clears are.

TendajiX1 votes

I honestly think Zyra is perfect besides her passive. The combo of a 2 second delay and slow missile speed make it where you only hit people who forget you have it.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Ehhh definitely far from perfect. Like I said, the cdr on W is dumb, the frontloading damage on two abilities isn't ideal, the passive is good but feels bad, etc. She has problems, problems I'd like to see fixed.

TendajiX1 votes

What if they moved the cdr to her q or e? or even her r? i think that could be a good change what do you think?

The Bearded Bard2 votes

Then leveling the W would feel awful. As of now alls it does is give you cdr and lowers the recharge time. You can't really put it on the R because what would the intervals be? 3%,6%,10%? Just 10% at lvl 1 and nothing at the other levels? surpass 10%? Just 10% at lvl 3 and nothing for the first two?

The cdr on W was nice when it was 20%, but it was too strong. 10% just isn't worth it.

Yorukin1 votes

On one hand, freeing up her W for another spell and another plant type sounds like a fun idea. On the other, though, the proposed passive here would make her feel too much like Malzahar, just with less windup and uptime. I agree with the CDR being axed, though. Zyra may need all the CDR she can get, but I imagine that mages will have easier access to it after the update. I also feel that she doesn't totally need a DoT, especially given that her plants and Liandry's Torment provide enough of a sustained damage threat on their own.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I don't think it'd feel like malz at all. Malz you kind of just get the voidling as a perk to using your other spells. You don't play around the voidling. Zyra you'd be playing around your plants, deciding which one to use, working in Q's for damage output and stacking the passive, knowing that missing your E or W not only loses you out on cc and damage, but also loses you the opportunity to put out some plants.

LankPants1 votes

Moving her W to her passive gets rid of the old one and opens her W up for another damaging move, which means you can spread the damage between Q, E, and plants out so you're not destroying someone with just a QE combo. This also allows her to have three different plants instead of just two.

I've always liked this idea. It just seems so simple and obvious yet just seems like by far the best direction to take Zyra.

W: Venomous Barbs: Zyra shoots poison filled barbs in a medium range tri-shot (think shorter range TF Q) that stops at first targets hit. The barbs deal initial damage and apply a damage over time that amplifies further damage from plants for the duration. If cast when Rampant Growth is ready, each barb that hits a champion will spawn a plant where the barb hits. If all three barbs hit minions, the middle barb will spawn a plant. The plants spawned have medium range, low initial damage, but refresh the dot with every auto. For damage I was thinking 10-50 + 20% AP initially, then 50-150 + 25% AP over three seconds for the dot.

As I said I do like the idea but I'm going to put my own idea for a W here as well.

W: Venom Tipped Vines

Zyra lashes forward with her wrist vines (she really should use them for something) dealing damage to and stopping after hitting a target. If the target hit is a champion Zyra inflicts them with a paralysing poison dealing damage over the next 2.5 seconds and crippling them for the duration.

My rationale for this is that Zyra dies to assassins easier than just about any champion in the game. This is a way to allow Zyra to play against assassins a little better without just making her E quicker or shortening the cast animation, which effects all enemy champs too much IMO.

To post some numbers as well (which mean very little compared to actual concept)

Damage: 40/60/80/100/120 (+30% AP) Damage per tick: 10/15/20/25/30 (+10% AP) Number of ticks: 5 Range: 600 (for context Zyra's E is 1100, this ability is in the range of most common gap closers) Projectile speed: 2500 (Very fast, quicker than Ez Q. Most likely not dodge-able by reflex once the skill is launched) Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8

This ability would kind of function as Zyra's Illumination or Tectonic Distuption, It's not that useful at your normal range, but you can move into it with a little bit of risk and it punishes dives hard.

The Bearded Bard2 votes

OOO I like it! I like it more than my W idea, and for the W I originally toyed with the idea of an on hit using her vines, but decided against it because on hits are boring. If we were to do the spell cast stack passive with this W, I'd change the stack to 3 spells instead of 4 since you can't abuse it as much with a single target spell as you can with a multi hit, ya know?

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I've decided to go with a version of your idea, gave you credit of course. I decided against a dot, because as some people have mentioned, it might give her way too good synergy with Liandrys. So it's all initial damage. I've also given it a slow and the cripple, both lasting 1 second, but the duration increases for each plant plant attacks while they're poisoned. Curious to hear your opinion.

Dealth1 votes

Whenever people propose reworks, they feel the need to change every single ability.

Her passive only allows one plant on the field at a time, sorry but I'm not buying it :l

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I've changed the Q to allow for up to four plants on one spawn depending on how many champions you hit.

Matt Loss Zone1 votes

I would change the passive into a seed that blooms a new type of flower with q/e.

More from Gameplay

More by The Bearded Bard