We need more counters to shields

FalconPawwwwnch·Nov 29, 2016·5 votes·571 views

Since riots buffed every damn shield item and gave %boosts to shields on items

23 Comments

agbudarNov 29, 20163 votes

shields usually have a 5 seconds or less duration. shields are meant to counter burst and that's exactly what it does.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 29, 20162 votes

lol the counter is to do damage or wait it out

RalanrNov 29, 20162 votes

Yeah, idk what he was expecting.

"We should bypass shields!" "That ruins the entire point of shields."

Big LincolnNov 29, 20162 votes

shields have no counterplay and by the time they run out the enemy team will have steamrolled over you with their free extra health

RalanrNov 29, 20161 votes

... This is about CoTC isn't it. Because this is the first time I've heard that shields have no counterplay.

PennsNov 29, 20161 votes

Its not about cotc for me, its about Janna Soraka Nami ...and healing/shielding power on broken items item 3190 item 3107 item 3504 item 3222

RalanrNov 29, 20161 votes

Soraka and Janna I can get (also redemption too). But shields counter burst, that's the point.

PennsNov 29, 20161 votes

Well if shields coutner burst they should last for max 1-2s, not ~5+ like Janna shield. Also heals are basically shields that last forever.

RalanrNov 29, 20161 votes

Janna is stupid and everyone knows that Soraka is dumb when relevant.

Redemption could use a heal nerf.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 29, 20163 votes

most shield are negated by damage

or maybe just maybe lets focus the champ with out the shield for a moment

Big LincolnNov 29, 20162 votes

it's the other way around, shields negate damage

ya focus who when item 3190 gives the whole team a fat shield and item 3107 makes it even stronger

"just do more damage" isn't an argument; if this was somehow how it worked then shields would be worthless

RalanrNov 29, 20162 votes

And if we had ways to bypass shields then they'd be pretty worthless.

Big LincolnNov 29, 20162 votes

they'd be counterable.

stealth was not worthless when we had pink wards. heals aren't worthless if the enemy has damage. having options against champs that shield whole teams or shield one person with almost no CD Ivern Janna Ivern Janna Ivern Janna will not make shield champions worthless if a couple of picks can bypass it.

it would be worse for the tanks with shields for defensive steroids, but they could stand to have more counters anyway

RalanrNov 29, 20162 votes

Ok, first Riot removed pinkwards and redid stealth so they can properly balance champions around stealth.

Second: healing has been a problem in this game and it's mainly showcased through Soraka whenever she's relevant. Riot has tried changing her numerous times but can't find a healthy healing aspect about her.

Third: Janna and Ivern are overtunned right now.

Why would you introduce ways to bypass shields? You're only asking for compensation buffs on the champions that rely on those shields.

Big LincolnNov 29, 20161 votes

Ok, first Riot removed pinkwards and redid stealth so they can properly balance champions around stealth.

guarantee you this will create nothing but problems in the future. Removing stealth detection was a horrible idea and we're already seeing nerfs to a handful of champions. stealth should be balanced around having means of detection.

Soraka's rework has arguably made her less healthy for the game than before. she does nothing else but heal; she's as one-dimensional as it gets. The high CD but very strong heal from pre-rework was much better, even if the rest of her kit wasn't.

Why would you introduce ways to bypass shields?

because a good number of champion shields are either absurdly powerful or very long lasting, on top of cooldowns continuously getting lower and shields getting stronger. Situational counters (read: a small handful of champions) do not and have never warranted compensation buffs.

RalanrNov 29, 20161 votes

Any balanc choice makes problems, what matters is if you can predict and have a plan to tackle those problems. They basically simplified how they'd balance a group of champions.

As for champions that just avoid shields, you honestly don't think that wouldn't lead to compensation buffs or even nerfs to the champions who can avoid shields when simply removing pink wards causes a balance upheaval?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 29, 20162 votes

oh its not like those have cooldowns

and by the time both items are completed the damage carries typically out scale the shields anyways

Z StatisticNov 29, 20162 votes

edit: Actually, I take that back.

First of all, surprisingly, the damage differential between shields and heals of the same value are identical regardless of missing health. Second, the differential is technically in healing's favor (yay) but it's absolutely minuscule.

Example: Let's consider a heal of 1000 points. Remember, it doesn't matter how dead the person is; it will protect the player equally well (assuming not at max health of course). The ratio is dependent on two things: the missing health ratio and armor/MR.

that ratio is = r*100/(100+armor) + 1

So, the first thing to note is that the more armor you have, the less of a difference it makes. Same thing with smaller % but that's obvious. Now, let's consider the worst case scenario: 0 armor and 15% missing health damage (yikes!) That means a 1000 point heal has the same efficacy of saving an ally from Zed's passive or Lee's Q as...1150 point shield. If you have 100 armor, it shrinks to 1075 shield.

Yes, shields are worse than heals versus missing health damage, but the deficit is so small that it's no wonder no one noticed the difference.

RalanrNov 29, 20161 votes

Does missing health damage bypass shields? I assumed it was just more effective against shielded low health targets.

Z StatisticNov 29, 20161 votes

You assume right.

Big LincolnNov 29, 20161 votes

we need champions that can ignore shields

i nominate Darius