As it is now its even easier to stonewall a lane top lane with tabi + bone plate + second wind, and bruisers still dont have the bruiser keystone.
Have fun with a patch of unmoveable lanes.
RiotRiot Stashu11 votesHello! Bone Plate Designer and balance designer who handled the top lane changes this past patch. I hear where you're coming from, and I also hate stone-walled lanes. I'm a top lane player primarily, and I play agressive champions like Fiora, Kled, and Renekton. I'm with you that playing into uninteractive farm lanes sucks, whether it be against ranged-waveclear or unkillable tanks. So... I hope you believe me when I say we thought about this stuff extensively when designing Bone Plating. Here's some context on the design conversations around it:
Non-tank champions lacked options in Resolve for mitigating 'all-in' opponents like Riven or Tryndamere, since the existing minor runes weren't strong in lane for them. As a result, they turned to Inspiration for early durability/sustain options (like Celestial Body, Perfect Timing, and the potion style bonus). We wanted Resolve to be able to fill that need for non-tanks and landed on Bone Plating - good on tanks, but also appeals to squishies. It's good against burst, but bad against poke since opponents can 'poke it off' (damage of the hit that procs Bone Plating isn't actually reduced), then take advantage of the huge cooldown.
With that design trending well, we wanted to make sure we weren't increasing the overall amount of defensive power in the early game, particularly the full-tank Resolve+Inspo build. So we removed Celestial Body, nerfed Perfect timing, moved the potion style bonus to a new rune that you have to give up a slot for, and, most importantly, shuffled Resolve runes around. Resolve users can no longer take the mega-early-game defense package of Iron Skin/Mirror Shell + Second Wind. They CAN go Bone Plating + Iron Skin, or Bone Plating + Second Wind, but that package is not strictly tankier since Bone Plating does nothing for 45 seconds after it falls off. (Combined, The full-tank inspo+resolve build is worse off.)
Overall, I believe these adjustments will help the 'stonewall' problem, not make it worse. But, 8.4 was a massive patch and we're totally ready to pull the trigger and nerf or change Bone Plating if it does in fact make top lane less interactive!
Spideraxe2 votesHey Stashu, first and foremost loved you on BTR yesterday, what do you think of how Bone Plating might affect overall durability in the game
RiotRiot Stashu6 votesHaha thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it.
As for Bone Plating, it's hard to read how it will affect 'overall' durability. It will likely add to early game durability in some matchups, but will be worse than other options (like Celestial Body) in other matchups. As for the late game, if your team has any amount of ranged poke, you effectively can deny the enemy's Bone Plating at a low cost.
The point I really want to push on here is that unlike flat defensive stats like HP or Armor, you can actually play around Bone Plating. It does not reduce the damage on the attack that procs it, it only lasts a few seconds, and then it has a longgg CD. The other aspect of it (which didn't make it into the tooltip, my bad!) is that it only blocks damage from the person that triggers it. So if your Soraka Qs the enemy ADC and triggers Bone Plating, the assassin who then dives on that ADC does not suffer any reduced damage.
Sooooo! With all that considered, it's really hard to evaluate exactly what this will do to 'overall' durability. But it is easy to talk about what it will do in specific matchups, since it was designed to be good in some and bad in others :D
Spideraxe1 votesThanks for the great answer Stash [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
ModThe Djinn4 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GiABzJ6V,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T23:50:33.926+0000)The other aspect of it (which didn't make it into the tooltip, my bad!) is that it only blocks damage from the person that triggers it. So if your Soraka Qs the enemy ADC and triggers Bone Plating, the assassin who then dives on that ADC does not suffer any reduced damage.
This will be making the tooltip later though, yes? This is...sort of huge. :P
RiotRiot Stashu5 votesYes! Next patch, just slipped for this one :(
Volibears Keeper2 votesThis is a major mistake to be honest. I've been taking it because I thought it blocked damage from next 3 abiltiies from anyone. I'm one of the lucky few that actually read these red posts.
In an effort to help those that aren't here, can we get an alert on the client so people know this rune's tooltip is off?
ZaNJeTsU1 votesHey RIOT STASHU,
I watched BTR episode, and I got some questions on my mind, like: will you do some work on fighters items, if you will, will these items help Divers class, as those the ones who either go tank or lethality and only some of them who benefits from true dmg go to trinity due to the sheen dmg conversions, as imaqtpie said he don't feel top laner is being a threat even if he's fed, I see that there is a reason behind it cuz you have a lot of fighters that don't have their own items to help them, I don't mean to give them items to make them counter every one, what I only want for the class is to have their own identity and items as other classes in the game
AnataBakka1 votesofc, same thing they did to celerity and other runes (hidden tooltip fixes :p)
Rexxiee1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GiABzJ6V,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-02-23T22:41:46.447+0000)
Hello! Bone Plate Designer and balance designer who handled the top lane changes this past patch. I hear where you're coming from, and I also hate stone-walled lanes. I'm a top lane player primarily, and I play agressive champions like Fiora, Kled, and Renekton. I'm with you that playing into uninteractive farm lanes sucks, whether it be against ranged-waveclear or unkillable tanks. So... I hope you believe me when I say we thought about this stuff extensively when designing Bone Plating. Here's some context on the design conversations around it:
Non-tank champions lacked options in Resolve for mitigating 'all-in' opponents like Riven or Tryndamere, since the existing minor runes weren't strong in lane for them. As a result, they turned to Inspiration for early durability/sustain options (like Celestial Body, Perfect Timing, and the potion style bonus). We wanted Resolve to be able to fill that need for non-tanks and landed on Bone Plating - good on tanks, but also appeals to squishies. It's good against burst, but bad against poke since opponents can 'poke it off' (damage of the hit that procs Bone Plating isn't actually reduced), then take advantage of the huge cooldown.
With that design trending well, we wanted to make sure we weren't increasing the overall amount of defensive power in the early game, particularly the full-tank Resolve+Inspo build. So we removed Celestial Body, nerfed Perfect timing, moved the potion style bonus to a new rune that you have to give up a slot for, and, most importantly, shuffled Resolve runes around. Resolve users can no longer take the mega-early-game defense package of Iron Skin/Mirror Shell + Second Wind. They CAN go Bone Plating + Iron Skin, or Bone Plating + Second Wind, but that package is not strictly tankier since Bone Plating does nothing for 45 seconds after it falls off. (Combined, The full-tank inspo+resolve build is worse off.)
Overall, I believe these adjustments will help the 'stonewall' problem, not make it worse. But, 8.4 was a massive patch and we're totally ready to pull the trigger and nerf or change Bone Plating if it does in fact make top lane less interactive!
Thanks for the response, but dont you feel like tabi is already an enough of a "screw you" for champs like riven or tryndamere?
How about the ppl PLAYING those ad melee champs? Are they supposed to not have any kind of kill potential for the rest of laning phase because their opponents took bone plating + bought a 1100 gold item?
Is there any plans on nerfing tabi atleast? Or maybe buffing cleaver considering on how strong armor stack is atm.
Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votesBone Plating on a much, much lower cooldown would be great as a Diver passive.
Shameless advertising: I made a concept for it as a Wukong passive here.
for Valhalla1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GiABzJ6V,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-02-23T22:41:46.447+0000)
Hello! Bone Plate Designer and balance designer who handled the top lane changes this past patch. I hear where you're coming from, and I also hate stone-walled lanes. I'm a top lane player primarily, and I play agressive champions like Fiora, Kled, and Renekton. I'm with you that playing into uninteractive farm lanes sucks, whether it be against ranged-waveclear or unkillable tanks. So... I hope you believe me when I say we thought about this stuff extensively when designing Bone Plating. Here's some context on the design conversations around it:
Non-tank champions lacked options in Resolve for mitigating 'all-in' opponents like Riven or Tryndamere, since the existing minor runes weren't strong in lane for them. As a result, they turned to Inspiration for early durability/sustain options (like Celestial Body, Perfect Timing, and the potion style bonus). We wanted Resolve to be able to fill that need for non-tanks and landed on Bone Plating - good on tanks, but also appeals to squishies. It's good against burst, but bad against poke since opponents can 'poke it off' (damage of the hit that procs Bone Plating isn't actually reduced), then take advantage of the huge cooldown.
With that design trending well, we wanted to make sure we weren't increasing the overall amount of defensive power in the early game, particularly the full-tank Resolve+Inspo build. So we removed Celestial Body, nerfed Perfect timing, moved the potion style bonus to a new rune that you have to give up a slot for, and, most importantly, shuffled Resolve runes around. Resolve users can no longer take the mega-early-game defense package of Iron Skin/Mirror Shell + Second Wind. They CAN go Bone Plating + Iron Skin, or Bone Plating + Second Wind, but that package is not strictly tankier since Bone Plating does nothing for 45 seconds after it falls off. (Combined, The full-tank inspo+resolve build is worse off.)
Overall, I believe these adjustments will help the 'stonewall' problem, not make it worse. But, 8.4 was a massive patch and we're totally ready to pull the trigger and nerf or change Bone Plating if it does in fact make top lane less interactive!
Stashu! I think bone plating was a good addition to the resolve tree over all, because it leaves a window of opportunity to have kill pressure, which is healthy for the game, I feel like the biggest issue right now is -> Second Wind <-. The amount of sustain with Dorans Shield and the free cookies from the Inspiration tree is a massive issue. It's somewhat pointless to do short trades right now because people are literally sustaining to full health instantly. It was a massive issue in season 3, if I recall the time frame, where you nerfed a lot of base health regeneration on for example Riven, but buffed her shield slightly - which in turn made it more skill based where you actually have to dodge damage, and not just trade and heal to full by sitting around in lane.
Example; you short trade properly over and over until you actually can dive or have kill pressure (which makes the lane more interactive)
Example two: In the current state of the game you can't really do that, and the only hope of having kill pressure in lane is going for an all in. Which is heavily negated by Ninja Tabi/bone plating.
I don't mind tanks having ways to survive all ins against bruisers, but on top of all of the tools they already have they also have permanent sustain. That's the reason all bruisers run Resolve now as well, the runes and sustain you get is way too over the top.
Death by Glamour2 votesAnd bruisers can take this why?
Hethalean2 votesDoesn't it help Bruisers from getting poked out so hard though?
Ok sure but why2 votesFind me an immovable object
AND I SHALL PUT THIS QUESTION TO REST
Taliyah Rocks1 votesAs i've heard someone say, although it is a buff to tanks that are already strong, it might also be one of their biggest counters. Tanks rely mostly on their base damage, and shredding those will greatly cut their damage potential.
Sohleks1 votesAnyone that doesn't rune boneplate is trolling. This isn't the answer.
As weird as it sounds there should probably be a row in resolve that isn't direct durability. And boneplate tweaks.
Also I think the resolve hp should be half for ranged champions.
meowwow71 votesfor me it looks too lack luster in defense considering any enemy champ dmg can set it off and then they can just walk off for 5 seconds or just deliver the 3 autos or spells.