People are surprised that ADCS are hitting late game too quickly?

Ahristocats·Jan 9, 2018·135 votes·7,437 views

https://i.gyazo.com/2939cd07970f76412a9b2f13602d477f.png

guys i wonder how did it happen?

https://i.gyazo.com/b0999f3d78124c66b48fdc37934400ff.png

wait infinity edge got cheaper?

https://i.gyazo.com/f6bd0818db0ac0a17f8555400b2ba0b8.png

essence reaver too? surely other adc items should not be that cheap too

https://i.gyazo.com/720d4e98242706c9bfd68057b872eb23.png https://i.gyazo.com/5db9a5d3da8fa330af2ebd8c490ed301.png https://i.gyazo.com/d4311237df50b8714bfe03d8176d95a8.png

i wonder why adcs are hitting powerspike to early right now

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/234/571/b7d.png

168 Comments

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 201878 votes

"ADC 2k17 Lul"

Entire board cried about ADC being a useless role. Riot listened to this and helped adc's. Now that they are strong its time to cry again. The cycle never ends.

SkorchJan 9, 20184 votes

Thats the boards cycle. Strong? Call for nerfs. Got nerfed? Pick the next thing to nerf. And its not an ADC only thing.

Plastic 5 ADCJan 9, 20186 votes

Exactly my thoughts, Adc's were trash in 2k17, now they're in a good spot and everyone loses their shit.

We had to deal with the disgusting tank meta for a long time too.

AhrisJan 9, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Plastic 5 ADC,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gg4Rdter,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-01-09T12:49:47.799+0000)

Exactly my thoughts, Adc's were trash in 2k17, now they're in a good spot and everyone loses their shit.

We had to deal with the disgusting tank meta for a long time too.

They were never bad, just adc mains whining their role couldnt 1v5.

AleksaTeemoJan 9, 20182 votes

Lmao,adc were legitematly bad.In the summer however,they could littearly 1v5(cough Twitch cough).

GayFluffyUnicornJan 9, 20186 votes

No they were not bad. They were 5 manned and run down. Basically what botlane is doing now with every other role.

AirKingNeoJan 9, 20182 votes

No, they were bad.|

Poppy at 2 items tanks 20 auto attacks from Draven, only losing 10% of her HP.

YumaS2AstralJan 9, 20184 votes

You say that as if the same people crying about ADCs being weak are the same people crying due to ADCs being strong.

ŚhunpoJan 9, 20187 votes

"Assassins in 2k17 lul" That's an actual thing we should be worrying about. Assassins have been in the gutter for ages now.

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 201817 votes

This comment made my day xD

Katarina 53.3 % winrate, 10% pickrate Evelynn 53.3 % winrate Shaco 52 % winrate Akali 51% winrate

Rengar, Zed, Khazix, Kayn, Fizz - 50% winrate Omg assasins are fucking trash in the gutter, they are only winning half their games better buff them. "Assassins in 2k18 lulz"

ŚhunpoJan 9, 20186 votes

Yes, and none of them are fun, nor are they viable at all in competitive play.

Additionally, they're only good right now because of the current imbalance in runes and champion picks. The moment things get relatively fixed and people go back to playing mainly peel comps. we'll see a decline in their winrates as per usual.

Assassins are only good during the preseason due to how chaotic it is.

The worrying thing is that ADCs do a better job at assassinating targets than actual assassins do, that's the primary issue here.

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 201810 votes

Define "fun"..

I will define anti-fun: No one likes to deal with assassins, they are unfun to play against, if they get their items or if you loose lane vs them, your whole team pays for this the rest of the game. It might be fun for you (1) roaming around and snowballing the game, but at the cost of making 5 enemy players miserable. Quick maths 1-5= -4 (antifun)

This seems unhealthy to me, as more players leave the game frustrated, while you got your moment. its a class that needs to be gated by a skill floor so skilled players can use them effectively (to a limit), but if you suck donkey dick and you want to deal damage at the same time, you should play darius or nasus instead.

Btw no one cares about competetive, its a completely different game than soloq.

PennsJan 9, 20189 votes

I like playing against them more than cancer like Ryze or Anivia. Let me correct your statement: low elo players dont like playing against assassins xd

AhristocatsJan 9, 20185 votes

wtf penns

for the first time you reached an insane level of truth

ps: you forgot malzazar :^)

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20183 votes

There is a difference between knowing how to playing vs something and actually enjoying playing against it. Playing as a mage vs strong assassins, means rushing defense early (zhonyas) or taking exhaust thereby delaying/removing your own power (fun) or adc's needing some kind of protection from other teammates. You need to constantly worry about them roaming. Warding every brush on the river and jungle, Spam ping when they are missing from lane for a few seconds..

Even if you are ahead you have to play carefully around assassins, cause u never know... they might just delete you if you make a mistake. Now imagine if jungle, top and mid all play assassins, how the fuck are you supposed to keep track of all that shit at the same time?

It's a stressful and tilting job and it removes the focus from other aspects of the game like macro and teamfighting. This is why i hate the assassin meta.

PennsJan 9, 20185 votes

Well and as a melee assassin, Im not allowed to lane vs a Ryze or other mages. Not ever being allowed to be close to him nor your minions is pretty stressful too lul.
The only difference is that Ryze and Malz are spammed in pro play while assassins arent played at all mid.

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20183 votes

His winrate against these "melee" assassins lul: Zed: 46,7% Katarina: 44.1% Talon: 46.9 % Fizz: 45.55%

PennsJan 9, 20182 votes

His win rate against everything: https://i.gyazo.com/ebc054389f70042a7d56708bdc1a5524.png lel

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20181 votes

So whats your point lol?

PennsJan 9, 20185 votes

Ryze Anivia Malzahar = anti fun :]

AzadetheJan 10, 20182 votes

I'll correct it further: I hate playing against assassins with all but a select few champs.

Some champions like Akali or Zed or Kat aren't really carrying hard because the players have bad skill. They are carrying simply because the majority of champs right now don't really counter them. For example, I could probably stop them ALL with an Udyr, because he as on point stun and can aoe Akali's stealth.

However, I can some champs who lack counterplay on a significant level to them:

Ahri Ashe AurelionSol Caitlyn Evelynn Ezreal Heimerdinger Illaoi Ivern Jinx Karthus KogMaw Lucian MissFortune Nami Morgana Soraka Zoe

If your team plays these champs vs these assassins, it's almost always going to be a loss, simply because their mechanics lend poorly to winning against the leaping lords who can in/our abuse situations where there are no hard stuns or delayed cc.

kargishJan 9, 20185 votes

Assassins are a vital part of just about every fighting game out there with classes, they are always there along with the warrior and mage class. You can find them all over the place, because assassins are extremely fun to some players because of their extreme skill ceiling. You can argue about League's assassins, but this is what defines assassins in general. Frustrating to play against? Sure, but the victims only see the assassin's result, there's so much more to assassin playstyle than simply "1 shot."

You could make the same argument against an AoE mage (), since all they do is blow up 5 players at once instead of 1 player(same result?), or burst mages that delete you with 1 rotation Syndra Lux The difference between assassins and mages though, is that people like Zed Rengar Khazix Talon focus on getting in preferably undetected, eliminate a high priority target (healer/DPS) and then get out safely. There's a massive risk to their playstyle, while champions like Xerath Velkoz Orianna Syndra got range/CC as their safety net.

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20182 votes

You say assassins have a risky playstyle, but the mages you mention have no mobility and no escape, seems pretty risky to me. They also have to land actual skillshots, instead of mashing buttons.

kargishJan 9, 20184 votes

As I said, mages got range/CC as their safety. Not to mention item 3157 , but I don't see how you can call assassins button mashers?

Talon : Combos are required to do burst Zed : Shadow management and memory is not simple, besides his main ability (Q) is potentially 3 skillshots you need to connect on 1 point to achieve max damage. Akali : This is a button masher Katarina : Dagger management and reset potential knowledge Leblanc : So many choices to consider Khazix : Positoning and future sense for isolation and reset knowledge

There are a ton of examples on skill based assassins. And then again, a mage can counter that burst with item 3157 .

Anu3isIIJan 9, 201843 votes

To be fair, the way they approached it was bad. People were crying for being one-shot without any time to react, not asking for a race of "who one-shots first".

Now, with the absolute chaos of pre-season balancing, damage is way too high, and ADCs snowball harder because of the overall price reductions of items. I mean, they stack RFC with Shiv, two very cheap items with a lot of stats.

2Charmnot2CharmJan 9, 20181 votes

People were crying for being one-shot without any time to react, not asking for a race of "who one-shots first".

I thought it was cause of the extremely hard to kill tanks that for whatever dumb reason has the damage to kill all non tanks too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xn5E-G81FY

MalignMetalJan 9, 20189 votes

Kill all not building defensive items champions iirc
ADC were fine now they are over buffed you can't have counterplay if you only have 2 seconds to live It's just stat checking from ranged at this point

Anu3isIIJan 9, 20183 votes

Poppy was one of the extreme cases, and, from what I've seen, lots of people complained about her high amounts of damage while taking so little.

I mean, Tanks had been almost unkillable in many seasons, but they most of the times lacked the damage to do all by themselves. For example, a fed Nautilus has always been really difficult to ever kill, but he lacked any major way to bring down targets after the first combo.

It was a double-edged sword, where your opponents avoided to attack you, while your only way to interact was to CC them. The only "special" cases were the Juggernauts, where they were having damage, but lacked CC and/or gapclosers.

Now, everything has so much damage, that I would define most of the Tanks as "tanky", in the sense that they have a bit of durability, but not as much as before (tho, there are a few broken exceptions, that are both durable and deadly).

shggfhdhJan 9, 20186 votes

"Both durable and deadly" Riot games says, "lets put a 10% hp scaling on a true damage ult that then allows you to scale your hp infinitely"

(a few patches later) "well, mages have zhonias, carries have guardian angel, tanks need something too... hmmmm how about giving them something that can double your hp but reduce your dmg dealt. some guy in the back asks, what about chogath? we just made his ult scale with hp, this could cause some issues...

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG

p.s., I'm a cho main :) Chogath

greekvandaLJan 9, 201818 votes

{quoted}

"ADC 2k17 Lul"

Entire board cried about ADC being a useless role. Riot listened to this and helped adc's. Now that they are strong its time to cry again. The cycle never ends.

adcs were never weak to begin with at any season. So yeah. We have the right to bitch all we want.

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20183 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QIiJXRx59M

kargishJan 9, 201812 votes

We're watching ADCs farming alone being 1 shot by people meant to burst. What's your point?

AhristocatsJan 9, 20189 votes

point is that adcs were playing without thinking about how to win and riot adapted to them instead of adcs adapting to the game

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20182 votes

Maybe you should start thinking about how to adapt and win instead of crying for nerfs

AhristocatsJan 9, 20187 votes

i adapted

i only play bot lane now, goodbye toplane, good morning Mordekaiser Vayne Thresh Blitzcrank

PennsJan 9, 20184 votes

Honestly whenever i watch sneaky i wonder how he is high elo tbh. Literally walks into an obvious kat dagger, dies and says he isnt allowed to play the game against Katarina heh

GayFluffyUnicornJan 9, 20182 votes

Literally every fucking adc main ever. No matter the fucking elo. Upset is currently the highest ranked challenger if i'm not mistaken has been for a long time. He was also rank one back in s7 when HE spammed ADC IN 2k17 LUL on twitter. No joke.

ThefrostyvikingJan 9, 20185 votes

Except they were?

There were only 2 marksmen played under the entire lethality meta, and they got banned from time to time as well, meaning no marksmen in the botlane.

Before that the lane was decided by the mage supports as well, marksmen did hardly any damage under the games of that time as they always ended before the marksmen could recover.

It was a time when games ended at 1-2 items, and marksmen back then still needed 3-4.

Difference from then til now? Marksmen suddenly got a 2 item build that is hella strong, supports got buffed and a lot of stuff happened.....so supports weaken targets in a CC combo and marksmen take the kill and use it to snowball with their new shiny item 3087 .

AhristocatsJan 9, 20184 votes

{quoted}

There were only 2 marksmen played under the entire lethality meta

jhin varus mf cait

nothing changed, always 3 or 4 adcs played

NorthernRedStarJan 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=toxicity creep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gg4Rdter,comment-id=00030005,timestamp=2018-01-09T13:57:39.897+0000)

adcs were never weak to begin with at any season. So yeah. We have the right to bitch all we want.

Bad ADC players will keep moaning instead of improving their positioning skills and attack mechanics.

Granted, there's too much dmg in the meta right now overall.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 9, 201811 votes

I think you confuse boards with reddit? It's not the same people complaining guess what there are more than ten user here.

Even if that happened, noone told riot to mega buff the shit out of botlane in general. But whatever riot live design full of wonderful and knowledgeable people. Never biased or playing favorites.

Brain Errör 404Jan 9, 20183 votes

People wanted ADCs not to be useless af and keep getting ONE shotted by EVERYTHING. Not to turn ADCs into the VERY problem they are now. Simply adding an extra defensive item that benefit adcs would've been all they actually needed. but Riot, being Riot, thought that meant damage up across the board while also making supports even MORE cancerous to deal with.

Bob the ToastrJan 9, 20184 votes

I've had a theory for a while that rito shifts around the meta to make a certain portion of the champion pool strong at any one time to get people to spend money to get the champions the don't have. (i.e. assassin/lethality meta, adc meta, ardent censer meta, now it's engage and burst meta)

BjørnetjenestenJan 9, 20182 votes

Its not a theory, its pretty obvious. Remember cait being strong in spring? Oh lets buff her some more and release pulsefire skin. few patches later she gets gutted into unplayable state. Same thing for vayne, yasuo, riven, lee sin. Release of legendary skins is pretty much an indicator of future buffs for that champion.

But honestly who wants to pay for a skin when the champion cant be played? its disgusting but it makes perfect sense businesswise.

Troll for TrumpJan 9, 20183 votes

No, the entire board never jumped on that wagon. They were against it for a long time. That was reddit. The only time Boards was ever pro ADC was maybe...season 5? pre ADC update.

ThefrostyvikingJan 9, 20184 votes

Was a lot of buffs called for during the lethality meta and before that as well.

"ADCin2k17 lul" was a ongoing thing on both reddit and boards as far as i know, enough that several posts calling for marksmen buffs and assassin nerfs were visible on boards frontpage.