Azir picked/banned 1 time in NA LCS, goes 3-6

Nausicäa ·Feb 16, 2015·37 votes·4,258 views

Better gut this champion, way too broken obviously.

Why was Azir nerfed again?

Can we get a new balance team please?

61 Comments

BoulderoxFeb 16, 201519 votes

because he was "opressive" early and late game, well they gutted him like they said, the soldier range hurt him to points that there is no point playing him anymore. Xerath was played a few times and hes on the nerf hammer because he has a long stun.... Every NON META pick is being banned out of the light before they can get there it seems.

I will say they need to reevaluate who to nerf, because all that has happened is nerf, and on champs that haven't been in the spotlight in ages. Sej is very strong right now but I CAN BET if someone plays her in lcs and wins she will meet the hammer as well before she is useful

CerbearusFeb 16, 20156 votes

TF jungle played 1 time in competitive. Better nerf all ranged junglers! (soft resets on camps reduced to 5 from 10)

KaisadiIIaFeb 16, 20154 votes

That specific change was to avoid bot lane farming krugs at level 1 without taking any damage, so they went to lane with almost 1 level advantage and zero downsides.

CerbearusFeb 16, 20154 votes

"First, when we say "leash," we're talking about the moment when a monster camp either loses aggro on its target or switches to a different target (ie: when two champions 'juggle' aggro between them). So if one of those Krugs wiggles between two targets rapidly, you can expect it to hard reset pretty fast. This will have the largest impact on duo-lane partners who like to balance monster damage between them but will also affect long-range junglers who use the camp aggro range reset to take even less damage."

GO BACK TO YOUR HOME! Jungle monsters will 'hard' reset after 10 soft leashes ⇒ 5 soft leashes. Refer to the above context when we say "leashes" because it gets a little complicated.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-51-notes#patch-sr

Both.

KaisadiIIaFeb 16, 20159 votes

I main mid and I never ever had a single problem early game against an Azir. And they were not bad, just I can't see how he's supposed to be a bully early game when his basic combo burns 140 mana and deals less damage than even Anivia's combo.

BoulderoxFeb 16, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I main mid and I never ever had a single problem early game against an Azir. And they were not bad, just I can't see how he's supposed to be a bully early game when his basic combo burns 140 mana and deals less damage than even Anivia's combo.

THANK YOU, everyone say he zones so great, but he can't kill you until at least 6 to all in you, other than that it is your own stupidity to stay in lane to him. i would actually say he has a bad early game, he is forced to get w first which is only AA damage, q and e WERE his true damage source

Only Play DariusFeb 16, 20152 votes

I learned how to fight Azir if he ever shows his birdface top.

Wait for him to summon his soldiers, then walk past them right to his face. He will be forced to retreat each time (few things as funny as watching azir run from you becuase he doesn't have his soldiers, something about his movement animation), also dismissing his soldiers as a result becuase he moved too far away from them.

I have gotten so fed using this tactic, but no longer now that no one plays Azir because Riot made him trash tier.

Sometimes you just gotta use a little creativity and think outside the box to deal with champions you are having trouble fighting.

KilaneFeb 16, 20151 votes

Can you please teach this to all bronzies in the world out there? They don't seem to listen.

Only Play DariusFeb 16, 20151 votes

The problem is that this strategy only worked when Azir went top lane. Granted I don't play much mid and have never fought an Azir mid, but I would imagine that it wouldn't work well for mid because mid is a shorter lane and once you pass his soldiers there isn't much space for you to to fight Azir before you run into his turret.

Another thing is that Azir SHOVES his lane, which is great for mid because most mages and assassins struggle to farm under turret, but when playing top shoving just increases the time it takes to get back to safety if you lose a trade or get ganked.

Also, I'm bronze4. Just fell back into b5 but i'm in my series already.

DecaedeusFeb 16, 20152 votes

Azir was slightly stronger than he needed to be, especially in regions outside of NA (namely, KR). Oppressive, no. Nerfs were needed on Azir, but I think these were too heavy-handed.

And Xerath is meta, not non-meta, at least in regions outside of NA. There are different metas. I don't see the stun nerf gutting him out of competitive play, but I don't think it's necessary.

I agree with your comment about them needing to be smarter about who they nerf and not just banning every almost-meta champion out of the spotlight without considering game health.

BoulderoxFeb 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Azir was slightly stronger than he needed to be, especially in regions outside of NA (namely, KR). Oppressive, no. Nerfs were needed on Azir, but I think these were too heavy-handed.

And Xerath is meta, not non-meta, at least in regions outside of NA. There are different metas. I don't see the stun nerf gutting him out of competitive play, but I don't think it's necessary.

I agree with your comment about them needing to be smarter about who they nerf and not just banning every almost-meta champion out of the spotlight without considering game health.

thank you for that reply, I do feel Azir needed to be toned down, but they overshot him with the 50 reduc in damage on max q and the range loss.

By the xerath item, i know he is meta outside of NA but it just seems that they try to gut it before it becomes a thing in NA servers.

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Azir was slightly stronger than he needed to be, especially in regions outside of NA (namely, KR). Oppressive, no. Nerfs were needed on Azir, but I think these were too heavy-handed.

And yet his OGN p/b rate took a nosedive over recent weeks with 0 changes. http://lol.gamepedia.com/League_of_Legends_Wiki

If you think something is really really strong and later you find out that you were wrong clearly it doesnt mean that thing is still really strong based on a temporary belief.

People are not infallible, Koreans are not infallible, they have overvalued picks in the past and Azir was one of them.

Like ive said before, if they thought his laning was too strong they should have nerfed his laning, but what they did was nerf him at all points in the game and now hes shit.

DecaedeusFeb 17, 20152 votes

I said the nerfs were too heavy-handed. Yes, they definitely went too far.

I'd disagree with your point about Azir not being strong pre-nerf, though. He was a decently strong lane bully who scaled extremely well into the lategame.

VDc0zCqe0wFeb 17, 20151 votes

what? Xerath has been meta since mid S4 lol

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20157 votes

Lets start a list of champs that got gutted out of competitive play.

Azir Aatrox Fizz Olaf Talon Zyra Diana Syndra Yasuo Ziggs Kha'zix Shyvana Gragas Kayle

The fact they routinely gut champions and making them unviable is a joke. How is there supposed to be champion diversity when every time they nerf they take a hammer to the champion or simply nerf when its not needed.

KilaneFeb 16, 20151 votes

Bronze league disagress with you. ;D

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Bronze league disagress with you. ;D

Ya im aware. Kind of like how they still think Yasuo is god tier. Whens the last time we saw him in competitive? Oh ya last week when he got completely shit on because he was over nerfed. Even the casters were surpised by the Yasuo pick.

XtremeyFeb 16, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Lets start a list of champs that got gutted out of competitive play.

Azir Aatrox Fizz Olaf Zyra Diana Syndra Yasuo Ziggs Kha'zix Shyvana Gragas Kayle

The fact they routinely gut champions and making them unviable is a joke. How is there supposed to be champion diversity when every time they nerf they take a hammer to the champion.

Talon Warwick Tristana KogMaw Jax Braum Lucian Twitch

rip all nerfed (out of LCS viability) in 2014

ccseancc143Feb 16, 20151 votes

Talon is love, Talon is life. I would like to give my thanks to Talon for carrying me out bronze and climbing me up towards gold.

SpecterVonBarenFeb 16, 20154 votes

Tristana Jax

Don't blame Riot for those two, the community was calling for their heads for so long and they don't have a vision handicap so down they went.

qetzelFeb 16, 20151 votes

Aatrox Fizz Olaf Zyra Syndra Ziggs Kayle Warwick Tristana (rework in 2015, not 14, won after nerfs in 2014 Kog'Maw Jax Braum Lucian Twitch

List of champions that have seen competitive play (and won) since their nerf

I might also add Gragas to that list, as he was the only positive point for a losing team.

1st HanarSpectreFeb 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lets start a list of champs that got gutted out of competitive play.

Azir Aatrox Fizz Olaf Talon Zyra Diana Syndra Yasuo Ziggs Kha'zix Shyvana Gragas Kayle

The fact they routinely gut champions and making them unviable is a joke. How is there supposed to be champion diversity when every time they nerf they take a hammer to the champion or simply nerf when its not needed.

Just a quick question, what the fuck does it matter if it's LCS viable or not. You are not in the LCS, you will never be, and your skill level and the skill level of the people you play against, are nowhere near those players. This holds true also for me and the vast majority of the playerbase. Not seen in LCS doesn't mean that the champion is useless and cannot be played, it just means that against a team of the highest skilled player surrounded inteamwork they are weaker or risky to play..

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcUWVfue,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2015-02-16T20:40:33.637+0000)

Just a quick question, what the fuck does it matter if it's LCS viable or not. You are not in the LCS, you will never be, and your skill level and the skill level of the people you play against, are nowhere near those players. This holds true also for me and the vast majority of the playerbase. Not seen in LCS doesn't mean that the champion is useless and cannot be played, it just means that against a team of the highest skilled player surrounded inteamwork they are weaker or risky to play..

Just a quick question, why the fuck do you think that champion nerfs dont affect solo queue?

If a champion is nerfed to shit tier guess what? You're far more likely to lose games with them then if you played a champion who is actually strong.

Azir is sitting at 38% win rate in solo queue at all elo ranges.

1st HanarSpectreFeb 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Just a quick question, why the fuck do you think that champion nerfs dont affect solo queue?

If a champion is nerfed to shit tier guess what? You're far more likely to lose games with them then if you played a champion who is actually strong.

Azir is sitting at 38% win rate in solo queue at all elo ranges.

Shit tier in lcs does not mean shit tier in solo queue, the fact that you don't understand that is your main problem.

Ornn Star XXXFeb 16, 20156 votes

That 38 win percentage since the nerf;makes him more of a joke then Urgot and Elise now.

Starcall CaseyFeb 16, 20156 votes

A new balance team is needed. I'm sick of them ignoring threats and just nerfing niche picks.

ThePlasticSporkFeb 16, 20156 votes

God damn the boards flip flops on it's opinions real quick.

I remember just days before the patch it seemed like everyone was QQing about how godly Azir was.

vC48YNoGbJFeb 16, 20151 votes

Azir was pretty godly before and now he is really terrible. The boards are right to flip-flop. (In this case, anyways)

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Perfect Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcUWVfue,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-02-16T08:52:06.498+0000)

Azir was pretty godly before and now he is really terrible. The boards are right to flip-flop. (In this case, anyways)

He was so godly that his P/B in competitive took a nose dive despite 0 changes? Last 3 weeks of OGN prior or 5.3 he was picked or banned 30% of the time.

If he was so godly he would be 100 % p/b. But he wasnt, he was never godly and these changes were 100% unnecessary.

vC48YNoGbJFeb 16, 20151 votes

"If he was so godly he would be 100 % p/b"

Okay bruh, someone needs a lesson in logical arguments. That someone is you.

Also, never use pick/ban rates as an argument for a champions strength, it is hugely influenced by popularity and skill cap.

Nausicäa Feb 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Perfect Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcUWVfue,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-16T23:29:13.542+0000)

"If he was so godly he would be 100 % p/b"

Okay bruh, someone needs a lesson in logical arguments. That someone is you.

Also, never use pick/ban rates as an argument for a champions strength, it is hugely influenced by popularity and skill cap.

So apparently i need a lesson in logical arguments. Not only did you not give me one but you completely failed to explain what, if anything, was wrong with the statement you just quoted.

I think you're the one that needs the lesson given you dont seem to even understand what an argument given the fact you didnt make one. And for the record, 'you're wrong' isnt an argument.

And yes if a champion was 'godly' and by godly im assuming this means 'S tier' 'overpowered' 'best champion for role' then they would be 100% p/b in competitive. This is supported by evidence in past competitive seasons.

Do you honestly think that a pro team with money sponsorship, tournaments, fame and reputation on the line would not pick a 'godly' champion if it were up or otherwise deny the enemy team getting it?

In short you're utterly clueless, get a dictionary look up the words argument and logic, until you do please dont use these words thanks.

vC48YNoGbJFeb 17, 20151 votes

You are stupid and I return the advice to study up on logic .

I guess clowns with limited brain power repeat words that use in different paraphrases 'cause they can't grasp that I understand what you're trying to fail to say.

No champion has ever attained 100% p/b for more than 1 patch, as you would know if you looked rather than picking numbers out of your ass. Supported by what evidence? lmfao. One champion for what patch.

Azir has been picked in the competitive scene, you're just too ignorant to look it up. I believe one nearly got a quadra if not for time.

Hard PenetratorFeb 16, 20152 votes

Azir obviously was way stronger than average champion. Nerfs where harsh just like the old days. Dunno why after 4 years we don't see champions nerfed step by step like Lucian or Yasuo.

My problem with balance team is that I don't really see much of an progress from s1. This team should be pretty experienced with all those things by now. Yet they show a lot of finesse against certain champions like pre remake Gragas, Zed (shadow speed was fantastic idea), Jarvan (nerfed into the ground and slightly buffed here and there to be viable pick) but totally lack same thing with others: Diana Leblanc Talon Zyra and so on.

It feels like balance team is constantly taking new employees that instead of eliminating old mistakes, repeats them over Taric and over Ryze and over Olaf again.

qetzelFeb 16, 20151 votes

You probably don't see it because of "Better nerf ____"...

ForgiveColourFeb 16, 20155 votes

lets ignore how he was 100% p/b in all region a patch before

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20159 votes

{quoted}

lets ignore how he was 100% p/b in all region a patch before

Lets not ignore that your statement is 100% false and you're talking about of your ass.

The stats are right here, feel free it look it up yourself http://lol.gamepedia.com/League_of_Legends_Wiki

In the 3 weeks of OGN b4 the nerf he had roughly a 30% P/B rate In the 3 weeks of LCS his stats are similar.

He had 100% p/b for 1-2 weeks when competitive started up for the season and it started to fall drastically after those 2 weeks with no changes made to him.

RatbertFeb 16, 20156 votes

You just said he was wrong, then agreed with his claim that azir had 100%p/b at one point.

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20156 votes

{quoted}

You just said he was wrong, then agreed with his claim that azir had 100%p/b at one point.

Your point is what exactly?

He is suggesting that Azir was 100 % p/b in competitive for the entirety of patch 5.2/5.1, which is false. This is a completely distinct from stating that he was only for a small time 100 %p/b.

The fact that he was at one point 100 % p/b is irrelevant if those numbers dropped dramatically later on with absolutely no changes.

RatbertFeb 16, 20151 votes

Actually, he isn't suggesting that, he's suggesting that at some point in time last patch, azir was 100% p/b. If you say, I was X years old last year, you usually don't account for the fact that you aren't the same age the entire year.

The fact that anyone ever had 100p/b is astonishing.

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Actually, he isn't suggesting that, he's suggesting that at some point in time last patch, azir was 100% p/b. If you say, I was X years old last year, you usually don't account for the fact that you aren't the same age the entire year.

The fact that anyone ever had 100p/b is astonishing.

Actually he was suggesting exactly that.

He is clearly trying to say that the nerfs were justified and Azir was overpowered prior to the nerfs. Otherwise why bother pointing to his near 100 p/b? If he wanted to say at one point he had 100 % p/b he would have said that, but he didnt.

As i already stated 100% p/b is utterly irrelevant as it quickly dropped off after 1-2 weeks. He was a new champion and his power level was not yet determined. You clearly dont pay much attention to competitive LoL because these types of things happen frequently.

If i said i was X years last year, usually there isnt some arbitrary number fluctuating number thats my actual age.

JunkοFeb 16, 20152 votes

You know what's really funny? The last patch Azir got buffed in STATED that Riot is going to nerf him. So why the fuck did he get buffed in the first place?

And yeah the balance team really needs to be fired. I'm a Zed main that builds the old heavy AD build (mainly for W passive that ends up giving like 150 free AD) and i'm laughing my ass off at the Zed "nerfs"

qetzelFeb 16, 20151 votes

Azir

Just a small fix for consistency, but we wanted to really highlight that Q range. Initially it wasn't actually displaying the full range, so we changed it to do so. This way, when we reduce some power y'all really know what we've had to balance with. This bears repeating: that's a hiiiiiiigh range on Q.

Q - Conquering Sands DO YOU SEE THIS RANGE Conquering Sands' targeting indicator has been adjusted to properly display the spell's actual range of 800 ⇒ 875. No functional changes have been made. SAND FORMATION When there are 3 soldiers already out, Conquering Sands will always move the nearest soldier to where the player clicks

While it was a buff, it was a necessary buff, really. The way his soldiers moved before was stupid...

BreakkahFeb 16, 20152 votes

i just dont understand why riot is completely unable to make healthy changes to champions instead of just nuking everything they have across the board. i dont think its healthy for a sub 50% champ to get nerfed across the board with no compensation regardless of who it is when there are toxic champions with 56% win rates (katarina) who get out of hand every match and apparently according to riot need more buffs... this logic is beyond me.

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

i just dont understand why riot is completely unable to make healthy changes to champions instead of just nuking everything they have across the board. i dont think its healthy for a sub 50% champ to get nerfed across the board with no compensation regardless of who it is when there are toxic champions with 56% win rates (katarina) who get out of hand every match and apparently according to riot need more buffs... this logic is beyond me.

Ya pretty much my sentiments here well said.

DivewingFeb 16, 20151 votes

This is because he doesnt lack physical counterplay as much as strategic counterplay. I imagine the nerfs came about because people whined about how he was too oppressive, when they STAND IN HIS FUCKING SOLDIERS. It's like the adc walking up to the other team and expecting to not get blown up. TL;DR, you have to think when you vs Azir, thinking is too hard

FeathermaneFeb 16, 20152 votes

You didn't have to so much stand in his soldiers, as get into range for a milisecond and lose your entire lifebar.

YyaFeb 17, 20151 votes

Maybe late game, but never in the early stages.

DrillbreakFeb 16, 20151 votes

Azir was pretty stupid. He didn't have many weaknesses. That being said they went overboard.

Nausicäa Feb 16, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Blade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcUWVfue,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-02-16T21:37:00.022+0000)

Azir was pretty stupid. He didn't have many weaknesses. That being said they went overboard.

Actually he has a pretty significant weakness. That being that his early game is significantly worse than most other mages and he has very low all in burst/kill potential.

Yes he can poke you in lane, but his kill potential is non existent and his all in damage in low. He continues to be relatively weak until mid-late game where he gains a significant power spike.

The point is that they nerfed him because of his laning, but the actual changes they made affected his late game as well. They could have ONLY nerfed his lane but, Riots balance team...