What is the counter play for this champions ? Anti fun and sick to play against

ValiantKiller·May 11, 2018·2 votes·1,199 views

for early to late game, what is the healthy counter play? They will destroy you if you got caught alone and they will take over your jg without able to fight back, late game they will split push hard and can just destroy any type of champion if played right while in same time you can't just tell me to work as team cause it solo queue and there nothing called team. Special apply for late game who build 1 or 2 tanky items + and delete you tanker or not.

Like this 4 champions give me hell already and it just sick anti fun to play against them to be honest, i see them and if they got fed for once it gg game and what is more fun if you was first pick jg and got counter pick from if you are tanker who will mostly won't able to kill him at all or be useful.

16 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonMay 11, 20181 votes

The counterplay to Warwick is mostly dodging his R.

The others? There basically is none. Yi is stopped with CC. Shaco and Udyr are stopped by them going AFK.

Doge2020May 11, 20181 votes

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The counterplay to Warwick is mostly dodging his R.

The others? There basically is none. Yi is stopped with CC. Shaco and Udyr are stopped by them going AFK.

Udyr is easily stopped with CC and focus fire from the enemy, same with shaco. If you pick Garen against a shaco and the shaco is the villain, your team can easily see which clone is the real one. Which makes Garen, a tanky champ that can deal a bunch of damage a pretty good counter against a shaco.

Against udyr I would say that you should play around his build. If he is going tank, then get armor pen/ Black Cleaver. If he is going the Phoenix on-hit ap build then you would want to CC him away from your team. If he is going with tiger as his main ability, get armor and fight him as a group. I also found that a nasus with good amount of stacks can deal with him pretty well, unless he goes full tank of course. Then it would be hard to get past that amount of armor.

ValiantKillerMay 11, 20181 votes

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Udyr is easily stopped with CC and focus fire from the enemy, same with shaco. If you pick Garen against a shaco and the shaco is the villain, your team can easily see which clone is the real one. Which makes Garen, a tanky champ that can deal a bunch of damage a pretty good counter against a shaco.

Against udyr I would say that you should play around his build. If he is going tank, then get armor pen/ Black Cleaver. If he is going the Phoenix on-hit ap build then you would want to CC him away from your team. If he is going with tiger as his main ability, get armor and fight him as a group. I also found that a nasus with good amount of stacks can deal with him pretty well, unless he goes full tank of course. Then it would be hard to get past that amount of armor.

Problem is when they split push and your team leave you alone to 1v1 them, it just make things worst and you didn't answer how to stop them from counter jg you my team mates mostly doesn't even look at map or ignore pings.

VoraciousXMay 11, 20181 votes

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Problem is when they split push and your team leave you alone to 1v1 them, it just make things worst and you didn't answer how to stop them from counter jg you my team mates mostly doesn't even look at map or ignore pings.

If the enemy is visible in your jungle(ward your jungle if you're expecting counterjungling), ping them and ask for help. A lot of the times I watch for the jungler's position to try and kill him if he's alone because that sets him behind and makes it harder for him to gank me as a mid laner. If your mid laner thinks they can help you and get a kill, they'll do it if they know what's good for them. If Warwick doesn't get ahead early, he's gonna be near useless later, so try to put him behind early. Shaco is another who will want to get ahead early, because he 100% relies on items. He's very squishy and won't be able to kill tanks. I would actually suggest running Udyr or Rammus against Yi. Udyr can stun him while he's trying to fight him, and he has an extremely low win rate against these champions. Shaco is actually his lowest win rate, but Shaco has a high skill floor so you'd have to know how to play him well. If you want to know who has the easiest time vs these champions, I can list them.

These are the 3 highest win rate champs vs each champion:

Warwick --- DrMundo , Kindred , Rammus (From Left has the highest win rate, right has the least highest win rate, but these are the best counters for him so they're only off by like a few%) Shaco --- DrMundo , , Nunu Udyr --- Ivern , Riven , Nunu . I wouldn't suggest playing these champions unless you know how to play them though so for this one I'll give you the next 3 as well: Volibear , Skarner , Kindred . MasterYi --- Shaco , Udyr , Rammus

Mundo's only doing superwell because he's OP right now so if you're looking for champions to play that will be good overall vs these champions I'd focus on the others. Otherwise he should still counter these champions, but he's just overtuned atm.

ValiantKillerMay 11, 20181 votes

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If the enemy is visible in your jungle(ward your jungle if you're expecting counterjungling), ping them and ask for help. A lot of the times I watch for the jungler's position to try and kill him if he's alone because that sets him behind and makes it harder for him to gank me as a mid laner. If your mid laner thinks they can help you and get a kill, they'll do it if they know what's good for them. If Warwick doesn't get ahead early, he's gonna be near useless later, so try to put him behind early. Shaco is another who will want to get ahead early, because he 100% relies on items. He's very squishy and won't be able to kill tanks. I would actually suggest running Udyr or Rammus against Yi. Udyr can stun him while he's trying to fight him, and he has an extremely low win rate against these champions. Shaco is actually his lowest win rate, but Shaco has a high skill floor so you'd have to know how to play him well. If you want to know who has the easiest time vs these champions, I can list them.

These are the 3 highest win rate champs vs each champion:

--- , , (From Left has the highest win rate, right has the least highest win rate, but these are the best counters for him so they're only off by like a few%) --- , , --- , , . I wouldn't suggest playing these champions unless you know how to play them though so for this one I'll give you the next 3 as well: , , . --- , ,

Mundo's only doing superwell because he's OP right now so if you're looking for champions to play that will be good overall vs these champions I'd focus on the others. Otherwise he should still counter these champions, but he's just overtuned atm.

Thank you for help and i think mundo was hard counter for shaco for long time ago, due to his tank and aoe damage coming from items and his w. As for my problem isn't with dealing with yi, my problem is when i get counter in champ select by MasterYi like if i see i mostly go dark havest MonkeyKing and delete yi from game, my problem is when i get a pick early and yi is picked into me special when i pick XinZhao , yes XinZhao is strong early but fall so hard against later. As for udyr it just nothing able to 1v1 him really even if play around his build. he just put alot of damage for a tanky champion.

VoraciousXMay 11, 20181 votes

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Thank you for help and i think mundo was hard counter for shaco for long time ago, due to his tank and aoe damage coming from items and his w. As for my problem isn't with dealing with yi, my problem is when i get counter in champ select by like if i see i mostly go dark havest and delete yi from game, my problem is when i get a pick early and yi is picked into me special when i pick , yes is strong early but fall so hard against later. As for udyr it just nothing able to 1v1 him really even if play around his build. he just put alot of damage for a tanky champion.

Try to end the game before Yi comes online, that's basically the best solution I can give you for Yi if he counterpicks you. Xin Zhao is actually supposed to win this matchup though. He has a 52.26% win rate vs Yi. Try waiting until he Qs, and then ulting to knock him back, then comboing him. I dunno how new Xin works tbh, but I would assume that would be the best option as he wouldn't be able to Q you again for a bit if you got the drop on him.

As for Udyr, I would suggest Voli or Kindred if you know how to play them. Kindred has ranged autos, so with red buff Udyr should never be able to reach you, Voli has insane healing from his passive, and a lot of damage from his W. Udyr is a very predictable champion. He'll try to walk up to you, and stun auto you, then continue autoing for as long as possible until he kills you. If you're counterpicked, just never let him get close enough to auto you and lure him into other members of your team. You might consider taking ghost against him if you're a really slow champion as well.

ValiantKillerMay 12, 20181 votes

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Try to end the game before Yi comes online, that's basically the best solution I can give you for Yi if he counterpicks you. Xin Zhao is actually supposed to win this matchup though. He has a 52.26% win rate vs Yi. Try waiting until he Qs, and then ulting to knock him back, then comboing him. I dunno how new Xin works tbh, but I would assume that would be the best option as he wouldn't be able to Q you again for a bit if you got the drop on him.

As for Udyr, I would suggest Voli or Kindred if you know how to play them. Kindred has ranged autos, so with red buff Udyr should never be able to reach you, Voli has insane healing from his passive, and a lot of damage from his W. Udyr is a very predictable champion. He'll try to walk up to you, and stun auto you, then continue autoing for as long as possible until he kills you. If you're counterpicked, just never let him get close enough to auto you and lure him into other members of your team. You might consider taking ghost against him if you're a really slow champion as well.

Thank you again for keeping up with me and not just downvote my topic like others xD Anyway for xin part, xin able to manage to stand 1v1 with yi till yi get this 3 items item 3153 item 3124 item 3047 item 1416 nothing you can really do as xin even if you got item 3075 , well to be honest i saw nothing able to 1v1 yi after him, finishing his 3 items only Jax and Udyr maybe due to their tanky and damage /Stuns and jax e dodge while MonkeyKing if played with leth Khazix or any form of hard bursting assassin able to stand against him if they took the first hit on him.

And as for udyr yes i think i did play a voli against udyr and i was able to manage to help my team more with roaming and counter gank him, that could be true but i don't know if he able to 1v1 him , i think the only one i had a little success with in 1v1 udyr was Trundle but that was post 6.

Side note : As i know and for my knowledge correct me if i'm wrong, the op.gg status come from high elo where games tend to end faster than low elo that mean they end before yi or any late champion come online like nasus or yi, so you can't count on that if i was right.

VoraciousXMay 12, 20181 votes

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Thank you again for keeping up with me and not just downvote my topic like others xD Anyway for xin part, xin able to manage to stand 1v1 with yi till yi get this 3 items nothing you can really do as xin even if you got , well to be honest i saw nothing able to 1v1 yi after him, finishing his 3 items only and maybe due to their tanky and damage /Stuns and jax e dodge while if played with leth or any form of hard bursting assassin able to stand against him if they took the first hit on him.

And as for udyr yes i think i did play a voli against udyr and i was able to manage to help my team more with roaming and counter gank him, that could be true but i don't know if he able to 1v1 him , i think the only one i had a little success with in 1v1 udyr was but that was post 6.

Side note : As i know and for my knowledge correct me if i'm wrong, the op.gg status come from high elo where games tend to end faster than low elo that mean they end before yi or any late champion come online like nasus or yi, so you can't count on that if i was right.

I think vs Yi you should be more worried about killing everyone else. Xin's counter stats claim he has more kill participation, more damage dealt to champions, a much higher KDA despite having less CS per minute, less EXP per minute, and less gold per minute. I guess your goal would to be keeping him off your carries and allowing them to take him down, while also killing everyone else at that point in the game.

ValiantKillerMay 12, 20181 votes

Easy to say, hard to do when your team mates isn't smart and not follow your lead like yesterday i had yi and singed pushing top hard with zz and banner i pinged for help they just ignore me and forced 3v4 fight in mid they win fight but couldn't push on towers which lead top tower and inv to be gone and ofcourse i was dead, that why i like wukong since i can just delete yi and move to next target but that match i got counterpicked over xin

Doge2020May 11, 20181 votes

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Problem is when they split push and your team leave you alone to 1v1 them, it just make things worst and you didn't answer how to stop them from counter jg you my team mates mostly doesn't even look at map or ignore pings.

That is why I suggested Nasus if you are top lane, he usually is in a side lane anyways and the armor reduction from his e helps to lower the enemy’s armor. Shaco is usually very easy for me to kill mid to late game, simply because he is squishy. I can easily fight him with just 200 stacks.

Just like what Athrushan2 said, if you want to stop them from becoming super powerful late game, shut them down early. It might be good to try and keep your jungle warded, and try and follow the same patterns as the enemy jungler. Well that might be pretty hard but if you can figure out which side of the map they started then you can find out which lane they might gank, making it easy to counter gank them and because they are not that powerful early you can be able to gain a lead on them.

ValiantKillerMay 11, 20181 votes

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That is why I suggested Nasus if you are top lane, he usually is in a side lane anyways and the armor reduction from his e helps to lower the enemy’s armor. Shaco is usually very easy for me to kill mid to late game, simply because he is squishy. I can easily fight him with just 200 stacks.

Just like what Athrushan2 said, if you want to stop them from becoming super powerful late game, shut them down early. It might be good to try and keep your jungle warded, and try and follow the same patterns as the enemy jungler. Well that might be pretty hard but if you can figure out which side of the map they started then you can find out which lane they might gank, making it easy to counter gank them and because they are not that powerful early you can be able to gain a lead on them.

Easy to say to keep the jg warded but when i beg my top or mid to ward my other wide and they just ignore me, it just hard to be honest.

Doge2020May 12, 20181 votes

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Easy to say to keep the jg warded but when i beg my top or mid to ward my other wide and they just ignore me, it just hard to be honest.

Usually when my jungler asks me to ward his blue/red then I will when the 1st wave of minions are walking up. but after that it is kinda hard during the laning phase for me to do that because I am giving up XP, gold or nasus stacks. And usually to go roam even to my jungle I need to push the wave into tower first, which means if the enemy jungler was counter jungling on my side of the jungle then he/she can easily gank me after.

I will try to ward if the conditions are good enough. But if not then I won’t.

ValiantKillerMay 12, 20181 votes

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Usually when my jungler asks me to ward his blue/red then I will when the 1st wave of minions are walking up. but after that it is kinda hard during the laning phase for me to do that because I am giving up XP, gold or nasus stacks. And usually to go roam even to my jungle I need to push the wave into tower first, which means if the enemy jungler was counter jungling on my side of the jungle then he/she can easily gank me after.

I will try to ward if the conditions are good enough. But if not then I won’t.

That what I'm talking about , the first wave ward moslty people ignore that even if i asked and when they get ganked early because of that and i not able to counter gank cause I'm behind cause of that buff they cry at me and blame me. And that early buff make that 4 champions have a nice lead.

DW DianaMay 12, 20181 votes

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for early to late game, what is the healthy counter play? They will destroy you if you got caught alone and they will take over your jg without able to fight back, late game they will split push hard and can just destroy any type of champion if played right while in same time you can't just tell me to work as team cause it solo queue and there nothing called team. Special apply for late game who build 1 or 2 tanky items + and delete you tanker or not.

Like this 4 champions give me hell already and it just sick anti fun to play against them to be honest, i see them and if they got fed for once it gg game and what is more fun if you was first pick jg and got counter pick from if you are tanker who will mostly won't able to kill him at all or be useful.

Play Nocturne. 1v1 he will beat all of these after level 3. He can also gank pre 6 (though a lot of people wait for his ult, it's not really needed!). His clear is faster/more healthy then all of them (two of them need tiamat to clear effectively), and he can be built into almost anything (crit works, lethality is good, bruiser is also very strong). Even his runes are very open, with some liking electrocute and dark harvest, while I've found huge success with phase rush/celerity.

ValiantKillerMay 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GYcptaPa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-12T07:53:20.768+0000)

Play Nocturne. 1v1 he will beat all of these after level 3. He can also gank pre 6 (though a lot of people wait for his ult, it's not really needed!). His clear is faster/more healthy then all of them (two of them need tiamat to clear effectively), and he can be built into almost anything (crit works, lethality is good, bruiser is also very strong). Even his runes are very open, with some liking electrocute and dark harvest, while I've found huge success with phase rush/celerity.

What about PTA and attack speed build ? Like trinity, setarak and yellow smite ? I did try him with that build and he wasn't that bad either.

DW DianaMay 12, 20181 votes

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What about PTA and attack speed build ? Like trinity, setarak and yellow smite ? I did try him with that build and he wasn't that bad either.

I didn't like that one so much because it was so expensive.

MY personal build is: item 1416 , item 3252 (I know people seem to never buy this but lets face it, you are invading all game anyway!), item 3047 / item 3111 , item 3071 (while I'm building Poachers :P), item 3147 , then tank ( item 3193 item 3143 item 3194 etc etc etc).

You 1 shot squishies, shred tanks, and are really hard to kill. If you're really ahead and the enemy team doesn't really have a tank then you can exchange item 3071 for item 3074 .

Runes:

Sorcery: Phase Rush (easy to proc and helps you escape/chase down, works well with Q, and combining them all with celerity gives a great bonus to your AD!) Ultimate Hat (Nocturne ult is awesome :P) Celerity (Works with Phase Rush, his Q, his ult AND tip for those that don't know, you can use your Q while in flight for your ult! Shoot it off just before you land on the enemy target and you can get about 100AD bonus!) Gathering Storm (Ofc :P)

Precision: Presence of Mind (Again Nocturne Ult is awesome!) Coup De Grace (Squishies go splat, as do tanks :P)

With this build you can invade your opponent for free, gank at level 3, clear jungle with little to no effort at all, solo drake after you have a re-curve bow (normally first back item), and generally be the most terrifying champion in the game. Also not Nocturnes ult is best used from your OPPONENTS Jungle as this will give you a q line to escape while your target has another one following them so invade!

Not sure what else I can add so will leave it there.