Kinda getting sick of this.
Chances are if a game is going south and you are still 0/0/0, then yes, things are your fault, because while you haven't fed directly, because you DID NOTHING, the ENEMY JUNGLER has SINGLE-HANDEDLY won EVERY LANE.
So while top mid and bot may individually go 0/5 each, for each death the jungler was there while you were farming scuttle crab cross map, THAT IS ON YOU.
D3m37r14 votesSo it's the jungler's fault if you die to a gank because you shoved the lane and didn't ward?
DemainaNyx1 votesHe never said that. And, to be fair, I've had games where we are 5 man dove bot at like 7 minutes who just walk right through my control ward and trinket ward while the rest of my team is recalling or running from mid to help us instead of actually applying pressure to the rest of the OPEN map. "GG Bot feeding."
Pisykan4 votesso what i get from this is;
A) each lane either was being shoved by you and your team not allowing the jungler to gank efficiently and not warding properly to stave off and re-position on banks.
B) Enemy was simply outplaying each lane and settting-up ganks for there jungler.
C) Enemy had warded the jungle so your jungler as approaching got caught and the lane retreated and a counter gank ensued because;
watch your replays and i almost guarantee it was not that 0/0/0 junglers fault, in-fact i bet he was even as he was counter farming and scalling while you and your team couldn't play defensive.
EmperorPengu2 votesso what i get from this is;
A) each lane either was being shoved by you and your team not allowing the jungler to gank efficiently and not warding properly to stave off and re-position on banks.
B) Enemy was simply outplaying each lane and settting-up ganks for there jungler.
C) Enemy had warded the jungle so your jungler as approaching got caught and the lane retreated and a counter gank ensued because;
- no wards on your team, or really predictable positions
- kept pushing at low health allowing for easy clean-ups.
watch your replays and i almost guarantee it was not that 0/0/0 junglers fault, in-fact i bet he was even as he was counter farming and scalling while you and your team couldn't play defensive.
I agree with this. To many times do I have to deal with idiots that think wards are just a thing that is optional. You have to ward so that I can see where the enemy is so I can set up counter ganks.
Pisykan1 votescompletely!
i always try to place a deep ward on a quad-path by one of the buffs, even seeing the enemy jungler for a split second and letting your jungler know can do wonders for your team, not to mention (as a mid laner) i can counter-gank myself to relive jungle and lane pressure or if my jungler isn't doing it and is counter-ganking i can farm the enemy jungle myself putting him behind.
and always a vision in the bush below red-buff or to the side of the mid lane they are normally active all game long!
never underestimate a single ward!
EmperorPengu1 votescompletely!
i always try to place a deep ward on a quad-path by one of the buffs, even seeing the enemy jungler for a split second and letting your jungler know can do wonders for your team, not to mention (as a mid laner) i can counter-gank myself to relive jungle and lane pressure or if my jungler isn't doing it and is counter-ganking i can farm the enemy jungle myself putting him behind.
and always a vision in the bush below red-buff or to the side of the mid lane they are normally active all game long!
never underestimate a single ward!
As i jungle main I rely on my lancers to know what to do. Back off when I signal that way I can get in behind the enemy team. Ward my buff at the beginning so I can not worry about my jungle being stolen. & for the love of god if I invade at lv 4 trying to steal rapters (which is one of the easiest camps to steal because no one grabs them) ping that you laner is coming for me so I dont die. Or at least help if he does come for me.
Divewing1 votesThe particular game i was inspired to make this off, no. Our jungler was behind in CS all game. Our jungler was evelynn, so I don't know why an Evelynn would be "waiting to scale". He bought a SINGLE vision ward, and took blue smite, seldom using his trinket wards. Made no effort to place wards to protect his own jungle (I WAS THE ONE WHO DID THIS FOR HIM).
What I like about your response, is you pulled 3 imaginary points out of my post when I didn't bring any of them up. I had a fucking sona that game walk up to me to force me out of lane - and it worked.
Our eve on the other hand, sat in a bush "waiting for ekko". The ekko in question was my lane opponent, we were both on 20%, and the guy was WAITING FOR EKKO TO FACECHECK HIM INSTEAD OF JUST JUMPING ON HIM.
From watching this evelynn, i got the impression that he simply either didnt give a damn, or had no clue about how nuanced jungling really is, because the way he moved around in the few fights he was in, and the few attempts at ganks he made, HE WAS SPECIFICALLY AIMING TO GET THE KILLING BLOW. I.e: he was playing Call of Duty.
But by all means, downvote me, put words in my mouth by pulling bullshit arguments out of your ass that I didn't even bring up in my original post, all because I am a laner, and decided to call you junglers out for not all being the woefully underappreciated perfect little saints you claim you are.
Fed by Snu Snu3 votesAll these salty jungler mains trying to deny that counter ganking is also part of their responsibilities.
FooDang2 votesIf the enemy jungle ganks and you die...
Yea, that's on you
Crimzyn2 votesI love playing Devil's Advocate!
Im a JG main.
I agree with both the original post and the ones below.
If my team is 0/5 and I am 0/0/0 I probably haven't done enough to be an effective Jungler. I honestly see these scores happen once in awhile but normally if a lane is 0/5 and I am 0/0/0 my lane was probably over extending and making too many bad trades.
But in those few examples I have when the team is doing this bad, I am normally farming or applying pressure in a different part of the map
Divewing1 votesDon't get me wrong, i agree wholeheartedly with this, but therein is my issue, because they DONT apply pressure.
Literally none. So their jungler walks all over us, and the impression we are left with, is ours just straight doesn't give a fuck
It doesn't happen every game, but christ when it does it infuriates me to no end, ESPECIALLY, when they have the audacity to blame people
Crimzyn1 votesIt can be tilting for sure. I find that when a team plays together and you do bad, then the finger pointing games starts happening. Well MID fed... TOP was AFK for half the game, JG didnt gank, Support didnt take Exhaus, TOP roamed terribly and fed... etc etc etc
Sucks that u feel JG is tilting your games because i feel it is the most important role in the game since you are/should be affecting the outcome all over the map. It just sucks when you have a bad JG and they have a good one. You can REALLY notice the difference compared to a good ADC vs a bad one etc.
Divewing1 votesIt's annoying because the moment Riot removed stealth wards from shop it removed my ability to protect myself completely. It makes me partially reliant on the jungler to either help provide vision or pressure, and when they do neither they are honestly worse than dead weight.
Randomonium2 votesYou're oversimplifying things WAY too much. Just because your jungler doesn't have a kill doesn't mean the enemy jungler has 100% kill participation. It could very well be that multiple lanes all died solo.
Also, you have to take into account the positioning of the lanes. If everyone on your team does nothing but hard push that makes it very difficult for the jungler to gank. Your jungler may want to gank but your mismanagement of the minion wave makes ganking have a very low probability of success.
As a laner you ALWAYS know where your jungler is. So if your jungler is on the opposite side of the map and he isn't in a position to assist you then you SHOULD be playing more defensive because you don't know where the enemy jungler is. If you die to a gank it's not your junglers fault for not ganking, it's your fault for not playing defensive when your jungler was on the opposite side of the map.
What you should get pissed off about is if your jungler doesn't try to cross map something if the enemy jungler shows on the opposite side of the map. For example, if the enemy jungler ganks top lane while your jungler is on the bottom side of the map then your jungler should be looking for a gank bot lane or he should be invading the enemy bot side jungle and stealing camps or at the very least placing wards.
Crimzyn1 votesI do 100% agree here.
Automated Riven2 votesTo expand on this. It is fairly simple to keep track of the enemy jungle for the first few minutes of the game (short of leashless junglers.) and you should be paying attention to the map AS A LANER to ensure you keep track of where other people lanes are. Yes the laner should ping mia but you should also already know that he is missing. but also this allows you to keep track of the opposing jungler by seeing where he shows up, which side of the river he leaves on from a mid gank. and you can make adjucated guesses on where he is on the map based on previous showings. Altho this requires you to think about something other then your lane.
Divewing1 votesthat's my whole point.
They DONT do this.
It's simply a case of: "hey, eve, their jungler is kinda ganking everywhere, could you help us out" being met with "sorry, farming raptors. stop feeding"
Randomonium1 votesYeah, but that's not what you said. A jungler being 0/0/0 or farming a lot is very different than not taking advantage of the enemy jungler's movements to cross map objectives.
The point I'm trying to make is you are getting mad at your jungler for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't be yelling at your jungler for not having a kill or not ganking your lane. Likewise, you shouldn't be made at your laners if their lane opponent roams and they don't follow. What you should be mad about is if your teammates aren't adapting their gameplan once an enemy shows on the map somewhere where they aren't supposed to be. This can take many, many forms:
If the jungler shows top lane and your jungler is bot side then they should try to set up a gank bot lane. Bot lane should recognize that the enemy jungler is top and allow the wave to push into them so that their lane opponents overextend more and make for an easy gank. Alternatively, your jungler should invade the enemey bot side jungle. If he decides to to this then both mid lane and bot lane should push as hard as they can so the enemy mid laner or bot lane can't leave the lane to stop the invade without losing a lot of gold/exp.
If the enemy mid laner roams top or bottom and your mid laner isn't in a position to follow then it is the mid laners job to push the lane as hard as possible and try to take tower. If the jungler is on the same side of the map as the roam then he should move to countergank the roam and if he's on the opposite side he should either join mid lane to push the tower or look to make a gank on the opposite side of the map.
If the enemy top laner teleports bot lane and your top laner doesn't have TP available then the top laner should push tower as hard as possible. If the jungler is on bot side then he should move to countergank or punish a potential dive. If the jungler is top side he should look to push top tower, create pressure mid, or can even invade the enemy top side jungle since he knows he has top lane backup if the enemy jungler is there.
If the enemy support shows mid lane or top lane then your bot lane should immediately be trying to all in the enemy ADC. If the jungler is bot side he can move to set up a dive on the enemy ADC. If he is top side he can set up a countergank against the enemy support.
etc etc etc
Playing the game is all about adapting to your opponents. ITS NOT ONLY THE JUNGLERS JOB TO ADAPT. You should be adapting your laning style dependent on where your jungler is, where you think the enemy jungler is, and which enemies are missing from the map. If you are not doing this then you have no right to complain about your jungler when you die.
FioraWillCarry2 votesKinda getting sick of this.
Chances are if a game is going south and you are still 0/0/0, then yes, things are your fault, because while you haven't fed directly, because you DID NOTHING, the ENEMY JUNGLER has SINGLE-HANDEDLY won EVERY LANE.
I play lots of jungle. Hell, I'm fast becoming a jungle main. This kind of thinking makes me sick. It's not my job to win your fuckin lane for you. If someone goes 0-3 in lane in the time it took me to clear half my jungle, fuck that lane. I'm not ganking for shit laners. I'm not ganking a 2-0 Illaoi or Darius to feed them double kills. If you die to enemy jungle ganks, it's not my fault, it's your fault for being a dumbshit and not warding properly while repeatedly making the same mistake over and over again.
I'm not obligated to gank for you, especially if you bawling and screaming while's dying repeatedly to slight breezes.
Divewing1 votesalright you special fucking snowflake.
WE HAVE 2 WARDS AT BEST THAT ONLY LAST THEIR CHARGE DURATION AT LEVEL FUCKING 18.
OUTSIDE OF THAT WE GET A SINGLE FUCKING VISION WARD.
IF YOU ARENT APPLYING PRESSURE OR PROVIDING VISION, AND THE ENEMY JUNGLER IS SINGLE HANDEDLY WINNING THE GAME BECAUSE OF IT, THEN YES, THAT IS YOUR FAULT.
FioraWillCarry1 votesOk then. Keep complaining on the boards and where ever else about dying to ganks. That will surely solve the problem.
Divewing1 votesyou all keep putting words in my mouth but refuse to actually discuss what I'm talking about, I'm done trying.
You think i'm crying "jungler should have to carry my lane for me", which is completely false, that is moronic.
But god forbid someone called out a jungler for being anything but perfect, lest ye be greeted with a thousand messages of: "the jungler doesnt have to carry you, its not their responsibility, you should be able to drop 60 wards on the map at once".
So I'm done. You lot clearly aren't listening anyway, youve made pre-formed opinions with conjecture that has literally nothing to back it up on, and is nothing more than complete assumption, but by all means, tell me more about how unreasonable i am
Automated Riven1 votesActually, as someone who doesnt play jungle much. he is correct .. the reason there is a jungler is because its more effecient. there are 4 streams of income in the game and the jungle is one way. If a jungle ganks your lane you should be grateful that they ran the risk of wasting time to come help you out. The jungler's job is maintain vision control around objectives and keep track of their counter part, the other jungler. Its up to the laners to win lanes or at least stem the bleeding in a lost lane.
Side note. Its almost never the right call to gank a losing lane. If a jungler is going to be investing time anywhere it should be where advantages already exist.
just OK jungler1 votespressuring other parts of the map
A Basic Island1 votesstay bronze