I am annoyed by how burst heavy the meta is

Kowe The Ewok·Dec 30, 2014·18 votes·2,069 views

"It's like: 100-0 enemies or gtfo." You can be an Orianna and completely outplay the enemy Syndra in lane, continiously - then she presses R and you'll get nuked for 70% of your health.

You can be a jungle tank, trying to help your midlane - you gank the enemy Zed and you're dead in 5 blows.

You can be a Kayle, trying to save your friends in a team - a Riven will jump and 100-0 you in lane once she hits level 2.

I am not calling these above champions op (well, ok I'ld call Zed op), but I feel like base health / health per level needs some ignificant changes.

I've suffered through S1 Atmogs meta where every bruiser was running around semi-invincible - it wasn't fun. But neither the current burst meta where the half of all viable picks has to be able to 100-0 an enemy without any chance of counterplay (other than Flash'ing away)

28 Comments

MrBuffingtonDec 30, 20146 votes

I think it's just difficult to work off small advantages in solo q just because everything is so volatile. You can play Oriannas auto harass perfectly but one weird gank and it all goes to crap. It's much more effective in pro play

KaishaDec 30, 20143 votes

I agree with you completely but your protests will fall on deaf ears. Those raging narcissist that make up the vast majority of the player base think that a insta-gibbing someone 100-0 with no chance of counter play is the epitome of skill. Irony in its finest form, but irony lost on this player base. The community doesn't want deep, balanced gameplay, they want spectacles. They want to feel god-like, pretend they are good without any time or skill invested. Riot knows this, and knows they can milk every last dollar from them by pretending along with them. This is why the game will never be balanced, cause it is not profitable for it to be so.

trexmixGDec 30, 20143 votes

OK, here's the deal. Yes, the current meta is super bursty. However, I'd like to explain to you how to play against Zed. He is NOT OP, and he is actually very mechanic heavy (but nobody understands that.) Yes, his ult is very strong (almost broken, I agree.) But most Zed players can't even land a shuriken. You mention playing Orianna- Zone him! Make him use his spells to farm, and then go in when his shadow is on cooldown. When you know his ult is up, play passive, and then when he uses it, run to your tower. If you can bait out his ult without him getting a kill he is useless and will fall behind. A Zed that has fallen behind is useless.

Brenticus12Dec 30, 20144 votes

Actually, Zed's skill floor is sorta low. His skill cap however, is considerably higher. Just learn the basic combos and you'll probably be able to reach Plat with him.

Drunk RummateDec 30, 20145 votes

{quoted}

OK, here's the deal. Yes, the current meta is super bursty. However, I'd like to explain to you how to play against Zed. He is NOT OP, and he is actually very mechanic heavy (but nobody understands that.) Yes, his ult is very strong (almost broken, I agree.) But most Zed players can't even land a shuriken. You mention playing Orianna- Zone him! Make him use his spells to farm, and then go in when his shadow is on cooldown. When you know his ult is up, play passive, and then when he uses it, run to your tower. If you can bait out his ult without him getting a kill he is useless and will fall behind. A Zed that has fallen behind is useless.

you can't just zone zed with orianna because whenever you get in range to auto he will W-E-Q for a ton of damage. sure you can block some of that trade with your shield but he has 3 pots to your 2 and you'll run out of mana very quickly if you trade with him like that. zed is actually incredibly strong against ori in lane.

zoning him requires mana and with current regen and the necessity of armor seals rather than mana seals against zed, and the requirement to rush seekers instead of chalice... well its a really tough lane. zed should come out about 15 CS up by the time he has brutalizer and it only gets worse from there since you have no escape from his ult other than flash and he's one of the best tower diving champions in the game.

tainteddazeDec 30, 20142 votes

ori is extremely strong in this meta right now. Kayle is also very strong and very safe just get farm type of laner. Plus ult is more useful in team fights late game then riven is. Just don't feed her kills. Zed ult is a broken design concept that needed to be reworked when he was released, but riot won't be doing any of that and he will still be 1 shotting everyone and everything in the game until you get qss or zhoyna. Syndra isn't as good as you making her out to be.

Drunk RummateDec 30, 20142 votes

i think burst itself is fine as long as the champion bursting has reasonable counterplay

you can see an akali coming at you, CC her, drop a pink ward, and kill her

you can see a riven coming at you, CC her, and kill her from range

you can see a talon coming at you, drop a pink or run away when he ults, CC him and kill him

but then there's syndra who can 1 shot you from the fog of war simply by landing a single skill shot

and there's zed who can blink-gapclose to you, which conveniently allows him to dodge most forms of CC, and then burst you 100-0 and escape back to where he blinked in instantly (also dodging many forms of CC)

and then there's fizz who can dodge all of your CC with a low cooldown skill, clear an entire minion wave or do AOE damage to your team when he lands, Q to safety and zhonyas and then his troll poll is up again by the time zhonyas is over.

so it really just depends on the champion and their kit. Riots already removed all the silences from assassins, which is a great move imo. I think they need to go a bit farther and give more options for counterplay to several (namely the 3 listed above).

just yesterday i was playing Ahri, my favorite midlaner. I was against an Akali player who liked to roam a lot so i took to sitting in bushes waiting for her to return to lane. After I finished my DFG I was able to 1 shot akali from the bush simply by landing my charm and executing my combo properly. There was zero opportunity for counterplay on her end other than dodging the charm.

Now one could argue that she shouldn't be facechecking bushes when there's a DFG ahri around, and that she should ward better amongst other things. So sure, there are some things that could be done to 'counter' this 1 shot combo, but the fact remains that even if she takes all those measures i can still hit my charm if i aim it well, and if that charm lands she's 100-0 dead. That's probably an issue.

Brenticus12Dec 30, 20144 votes

I fucking hate Akali though. The only assassin I play is Kassadin and she fucking wrecks him. I was playing near perfectly against her as Kass (Even picked up two kills and an assist against her cause pink wards OP). She was 0-3 and I was 3-0-1 (Killed their jungler once I think), I was lvl 6 and she was lvl 4 so I started roaming, picked up two more kills. Went back to shop and returned to lane to find her at lvl 6 while I was lvl 8 and she instantly rushed into me. All I could do was Q then rift away while she chunked ne for half my HP while she bareky took ANY damage AND healed everything back.

Fucking sucks.

Drunk RummateDec 30, 20142 votes

kass is pretty decent against akali actually. your riftwalk has a lower range than her R so when she hits her level 6 powerspike it can be a little annoying, but if you're maxing Q she should never be able to kill you. once you finish RoA and Abyssal she goes from not being able to kill you to dying constantly to you. you just have to manage your power spikes a little better.

Brenticus12Dec 31, 20141 votes

Yeah, he's good against her pre-6 but post-6? Idk about that. You can get away from her, sure, but you're an assassin, you're supposed to kill people.

Also, I almost never take RoA and instead pick up an early tear, stack it with W and rift walks, then turn it into a seraphs. Could you give me the advantages for taking RoA over Seraphs? I know it gives you health but it doesn't really seem that cost effective and the shield on seraphs is huge and lasts quite long.

The great thing about that match was my ally Riven would roam down sometimes so I was able to place a pink ward right before I died so she could come in and kill her.

Drunk RummateDec 31, 20141 votes

Also, I almost never take RoA and instead pick up an early tear, stack it with W and rift walks, then turn it into a seraphs. Could you give me the advantages for taking RoA over Seraphs? I know it gives you health but it doesn't really seem that cost effective and the shield on seraphs is huge and lasts quite long.

Sure~~

RoA is actually, to my knowledge, the most cost efficient item in the game. It's a literal 'ball of stats' as some people might like to say. Kassadin is a champion that likes to get into the mix and he's less of an assassin than a highly mobile bruiser these days.

While I will agree with you that tear is a very good item on Kassadin, it delays his ability to duel heavily since you need to fully stack the item before you actually get the defensive stats from it. RoA on the other hand is useful at all stages of the game, and the health you get from the item scales substantially with any defensive stats you build (like an abyssal, which you would probably grab versus an Akali).

And while I agree that as an assassin you're supposed to kill people, and Kassadin is an assassin in many ways, you still have to manage his power spikes. Stay alive until level 11 versus akali, or get your kills off the enemy support and jungler to get fed. He is a late game scaling champion and his damage is heavily dictated by the items he builds. Especially with a tear build you aren't going to be dealing much damage until you have several items. RoA will at least let you get kills before that point but tear puts you 700g behind your opponent in stats for a very long time.

Brenticus12Dec 31, 20141 votes

I see, very nice points and very concise. I almost never play AP champs (Kass is really the only AP champ I play, the rest being AD or tanks) so I'm not as knowledgable about item choices.

Thanks for explaining. Do you have any idea where Seraphs would be better than RoA? Maybe against other late game scalers?

Drunk RummateDec 31, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I see, very nice points and very concise. I almost never play AP champs (Kass is really the only AP champ I play, the rest being AD or tanks) so I'm not as knowledgable about item choices.

Thanks for explaining. Do you have any idea where Seraphs would be better than RoA? Maybe against other late game scalers?

Tear would probably be a good item to grab against a champion like Xerath or Ziggs. You want to get in and 1 shot those champions then escape quickly, and seraphs would allow you to do that more easily than RoA. The active is also clutch and it could save you from a Ziggs/Xerath ultimate.

Brenticus12Jan 1, 20151 votes

I see, thank you, again. I'll make sure to try these out when I get back to playing League in a couple of weeks.

Tannhäuser GateDec 31, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Sure~~

RoA is actually, to my knowledge, the most cost efficient item in the game. It's a literal 'ball of stats' as some people might like to say. Kassadin is a champion that likes to get into the mix and he's less of an assassin than a highly mobile bruiser these days.

Actually muramana item 3042 holds that title i believe

PBnJellyDec 30, 20141 votes

I can definitely agree with this, and not only is Zed OP, but Syndra is as well: I main her, and I know I'm not good enough to have a 78% winrate on a balanced champ. The thing is when you can 100-0 an enemy, rather than chunking them with a standard mage, everything becomes easier. instantly getting rid of one person on the enemy team, preferably a carry, you just made the fight a 4v5/opened up a tower to take/got your team a free baron or dragon.

On the other side of the coin, if there is a ton of counterplay to an assassin or burst mage, then they generally won't be able to do their job properly. It's why assassins are such a volatile and unbalanced role. There isn't really an in-between.

VDc0zCqe0wDec 30, 20141 votes

it's because of the 1st drake buff and the early fights to get it

RoyaiChaosDec 30, 20141 votes

Yeah, Syndra can maybe 100-0 Ori, but can she set up a great combo for her entire team? or provide great utility for her team in general. Syndra can kill one person, and that's it. But Ori can set up an entire team kill.

Syndra is simply better at 1v1, Ori is better in teamfights. That's their playstyle, it would be boring if all champions were solely focused on team fighting.

AccountaBilabudyDec 30, 20144 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Syndra can maybe 100-0 Ori, but can she set up a great combo for her entire team? or provide great utility for her team in general. Syndra can kill one person, and that's it. But Ori can set up an entire team kill.

Syndra is simply better at 1v1, Ori is better in teamfights. That's their playstyle, it would be boring if all champions were solely focused on team fighting.

uhhh...yes...she can? its called stunning half of your team from the other side of the screen.

RoyaiChaosDec 31, 20141 votes

Not my point, Ori has a better team fight, Syndra is better in 1v1.

corbear007Dec 30, 20141 votes

I main syndra and yes I've set up many team fights with a well placed ball stun, or my shotgun stun, op? Slightly i will agree she needs a small nerf however shes not broken learn to play against her weaknesses and she's easy same goes for zed and akali, yeah they will obliterate you if you don't know what you're doing now zeds ult does need a tweak, Not mentioning my favorite ban (fizz) But every champ has a counter mid, some way of defeating them.

Meta is ever changing especially in the lower end and even in diamond people change the meta all the time ever see a taric top? Vs riven? I have and no it wasnt bronze or silver try diamond 4 vs a riven (taric won) change up the meta and you'll see how bad some players are

RoyaiChaosDec 31, 20141 votes

I've never said Syndra can't initiate fights, she definitely can but you never see those Wombo Combo vids with Syndra do you? Meanwhile Ori is there all the time. My point is, Ori is better at teamfights than Syndra, not saying Syndra is completely useless.

And wtf does this have to do with the meta. I'm simply saying that assassins are still weaker in some aspects and thus balanced in that sense.

Not saying there there shouldn't be adjustments, but that just because they can't easily 100-0 doesn't mean they're weaker, and vice versa, just because they can easily 100-0 doesn't make them stronger.

Kowe The EwokDec 30, 20141 votes

Syndra can setup insane AoE stund on regular bases and does extremely well when it comes to peeling for her ADC with W & E.

StephenizgodDec 31, 20141 votes

Lol yea she totally can, setting up a couple orbs then ulting and then using her stun thing. Stuns whole team AND deals a ton of damage.

Kuroi86Dec 30, 20141 votes

If you're getting 100-0, then they got fed and you shouldn't be going 1v1.

Lean into itDec 31, 20141 votes

this is why i liked league of warmogs teamfights could last like 10 seconds long with champions getting multiple spell rotations off, was more fun to me than 2 second teamfights where people get blown up in half a second

Perma CCFeb 21, 20151 votes

Lol you guys whine and complain about Syndra too much. She isn't op at all and their is a simple solution to the 100-0 drama. Any champion can counter her its called. Zhonya's. OMG OMG Who would have thought? If you dont have enough skill to click a fucking button and become invulnerable then you are just bad. It's not fucking hard to counter a Syndra so quit crying about it. Now if she had crazy mobility like a Zed then I could see it being an issue. Cause using Zhonyas against Zed isnt enough, he still is op as fuck.

Kowe The EwokFeb 21, 20151 votes

Necro