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2 words for new AP itemization

Ahristocats··48 votes·2,992 views

https://i.gyazo.com/68b241ffb3740fc9f84ed19bb53d0f60.png

THANK YOU

Goddamn it i had so much fun playing Mordekaiser Bot as an actual champ rather than a "must snowball snowball snowball and win at 15 min"

item 3116 85 ap item 3907 100 ap+100 potential ap item 3089 FINALLY DOESNT COST A FUCK TON OF GOLD WITH CRAPPY BUILD PATH

I'm now able to scale in midgame while before i had to snowball the shit out of the game to be usefull and make the enemy adc worthless to win But now i get 700 ap at 30 min in the game, because rabadon is buyable, Rylai isn't shit if you rush it (if you believe 10 ap doesn't make a difference you should experience playing rylai with 75 and 85 ap)

and the fact that spellbinder is in my build i can actually back with 1250 gold and buy item 1058 to compet with an adc that bought item 1038

speaking of spellbinder, i can finally itemize movement speed this was one of the reason you needed to snowball, because later you would get outfarmed so hard because marksmen would be able to travel the entire map so fast with item 3087 item 3094 and farm way more than you while also being present at teamfights But now, i get 417 movement speed without wind dragon, and can outfarm a caitlyn that has SS+rapidfire

I'm even thinking about taking bone plate, i didn't want to because you would deal no damage in lane if you go resolve secondary since you have 10 ap instead of 20, but who cares about that when you actually have a strong midgame that doesn't depend on you snowballing so hard

I really can't wait until I can play league on a large scale again

Thank you Riot

55 Comments

Míellá35 votes

Those are 200 words

I Main Swain2 votes

why do i get the feeling you actually took the time to count just so you could make that comment

Arakadia4 votes

Eh, there are word counters.

I Main Swain2 votes

only for the weak

Rico Nasty7 votes

Really? In my opinion it feels so much worse to play on midlane burst mages.

Fisher No Chains6 votes

I've had the same feeling, and I think it happens for 2 reasons:

  1. the -5 damage to minions, that fucked my cs up for like 10 games before I realized that I missed something while reading the patch notes;
  2. the fact that it's a nerf to mages' early game. Nomicon used to cost 2800, gave 100 AP and Mana and had a good mana regen passive. Now every lost chapter item costs 3000+ gold, has less AP and it's harder to build because lost chapter went from 900 to 1100 gold. Pre patch I could always afford a lost chapter/fiendish codex at first back, now I have to sit on a tome+sapphire until my 2nd back which feels kind of bad.

I've tried to get GB+Luden's on LB since Nomicon no longer gives universally good stats, and holy shit getting 8k gold for both Gunblade and Luden's (and boots) is hard and delays a lot my powerspikes.

Not saying that we should bring old Nomicon back (it was busted af) but we should take a look at some mages' early game power. Their powerspike got delayed which is not necessarily bad, but playing a lane bully and not being able to get stuff that you need to snowball is just wrong imo.

Tomoe Gozen2 votes

It sounds like AP mages now actually have to consider which AP item to invest in. Who would've thought...

Supreme Senpai691 votes

AP item variety is awesome and I think every mage main has wanted that for awhile. It seems like his argument is that with an increase in cost to core mage items, their power spike is delayed, and AP lane bullies are somewhat at odds with this fact because they're early game champions who cannot hit their power spike until mid game.

I can't confirm or deny this, but that's just what he's arguing. You basically replied with "no u."

Fisher No Chains2 votes

Just like Supreme Senpai said, I’m complaining about how the mages itemization became even more expensive compared to tank or ADC items.

What I’m trying to say is that it’s sad to see adcs have more items than me with the same gold and while being in a duo lane. I’m a goddamn assassin, I need damage more than them in early and mid game because, you know, assassins are complete dogshit past 20 minutes.

They need to either increase ad items’ cost (would be good for game pacing, having everything cost more would be a first step in the good direction) or, if they don’t want to, take a look at core AP items’ cost. Right now for many mages there’s no choice between lost chapter items, since Archangel takes forever to stack and feels garbage in early game metas, and GLP’s active got gutted and it’s not even worth considering over Protobelt.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

Then you have a problem about some other parts of the game, that are not related to mages or their itemization. What Riot did right now seems as a right choice after all. Yes, mages now take a bit more time to buy their items but they are meaningful items and they have meaningful choices in choosing AP according to their playstyle.

Fisher No Chains1 votes

That’s right, and even though I think that AP itemization needs some more work on it, I also think that they should do something similiar for ADCs items.

That’s what I’m asking for. Make everything more expensive, not only mages’ items. :/

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

I mean, this patch was a mage itemization pass. On PBE, there are nerfs to tier 1 Marksmen in general (Twitch and Tristana) and some other changes with less ranges for certain champions. Don't know what will stick and what won't but it's interesting to see that Riot is exploring more ways to reduce the power of extremely long range Marksmen.

YuGiHo1 votes

It so much more interesting than adc items at-least. I like having choices and making meaningful decisions as to what items i start with hand buy over the course of the game.

My only complaint is that their prices need some tuning.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

I mean, i don't really find the items too expensive. It did catch me off-guard because i got roped into playing some ARAM games with friends before i even read the patch notes so i got a bit disoriented when Morello's suddenly went to 3k gold and it applied GW immediately. It took me literally a game or two to get into itemization again because it didn't change much but they have interesting build paths for various mage types.

I'd say that Marksmen items need to be more expensive because some of them hit their stride in just 1 or two items, which is a big no-no for scaling. Mages seem fine to me. There are always some improvements that can be added to the AP itemization but it's a recent change so we'd need to wait a while to see how mages use it and what things they usually go for.

Poske1 votes

Seems like another one of those Le blanc players who needs my help

item 3145 item 3057 item 3100

#Le blanc clone procs this and it has seperate cooldown

This are your core items to a point where not building them is trolling

Your powerspikes costs 1050 gold

Also dont build Gunblade. You generaly never want to fuse revolver till you finish 2 Ms Items and even THEN FKING PROTOBELT IS MORE EFFICIENT WITHOUT TROLL STATS

item 3100 item 3907

You either build item 3907 or item 3020 . Never both you are the most mobile champion in a game 2 big ms items put you at 397-398 ms

Fisher No Chains1 votes

I've tried Protobelt with success after patch, but I can't stand the Lich Bane build. I'm an assassin, I just hate autoing while throwing stuff at enemies and there's better stuff to build imo.

Also Spellbinder is just bad on LB. You'll never charge it enough unless you are against spammy enemies, otherwise it's fucking useless and you can build something else and save 2800 gold.

Poske1 votes

your opinion reggarding Le blanc is irelevant compared to mine

I cant help you if you dont want help

Fisher No Chains1 votes

Yes mr LeBlanc overlord, as you wish!

Diamond3Kappa6 votes

FINALLY DOESNT COST A FUCK TON OF GOLD WITH CRAPPY BUILD PATH

item 1058 item 1058 doesnt feel good to me either tho lul

Ahristocats32 votes

why not? you build 2 super strong ap items back and then build rabadon

previously, you bought one item 1058 , then item 1026 which isn't that good (only 40 ap) and then either didn't have enough space, or bought item 1052 which is shit, doesn't have space anymore for control wards, and had to get 1260 gold to finish the rabadon

Diamond3Kappa2 votes

Idk, I guess its fine late when you dont have much space in your inventory but item 1026 item 1052 = item 1058 just that you dont have to farm 1250 twice

Ahristocats12 votes

fact that you have a stronger item in your inventory makes the buildpath better item 3035 had long sword instead of pickaxe with more expensive receipe item 3004 had long sword instead of pickaxe with more expensive receipe they buffed both by changing the long sword

also yes, place in inventory is important

YokoNomi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GR9A3yGA,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-24T16:29:09.279+0000)

fact that you have a stronger item in your inventory makes the buildpath better item 3035 had long sword instead of pickaxe with more expensive receipe item 3004 had long sword instead of pickaxe with more expensive receipe they buffed both by changing the long sword

also yes, place in inventory is important

Overgeneralizing this, but better items typically means more gold cost. Adjustments are not without their loss. Even if something is made better, it will have its downsides.

Ahristocats9 votes

{quoted}

Adjustments are not without their loss.

? i don't get this one

LW used to cost 360+940 gold =1300 gold they changed it to 825+475 gold=1300 gold, without changing anything in the stats that way you would sit on less gold once you buy the first item

Rabadon got the same treatment, except they even reduced the price of the item and gave it more ap

YokoNomi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GR9A3yGA,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-24T16:41:37.823+0000)

? i don't get this one

LW used to cost 360+940 gold =1300 gold they changed it to 825+475 gold=1300 gold, without changing anything in the stats that way you would sit on less gold once you buy the first item

Rabadon got the same treatment, except they even reduced the price of the item and gave it more ap

I'm not sure how else I'm suppose to say it. In my opinion, the drawback for the cap would be not enough immediate damage for early into mid game investment. Even if it's more cost effective, you need to be a bit more smart about when you invest into two rods to get it done. I feel like this'll create a rut in a small habit I have of building it early game, in even those games that go well enough to splurge in such power.

I did also blatantly state I was overgeneralizing.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

Rabadon's isn't really the best investment on its own. All it gives is AP and increases your overall AP by another 40%. It's more cost effective if you pair with other AP items because it lacks any sort of utility and it multiplies your AP bonus.

There's really no AP champion that's so well off in utility/cc/sustain that they don't need anything else but a Rabadon's early.

Tiddy Twister1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GR9A3yGA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-24T16:03:48.144+0000)

why not? you build 2 super strong ap items back and then build rabadon

previously, you bought one item 1058 , then item 1026 which isn't that good (only 40 ap) and then either didn't have enough space, or bought item 1052 which is shit, doesn't have space anymore for control wards, and had to get 1260 gold to finish the rabadon

Sounds like your only argument is that it used to take up inventory. Yes, item 1026 and item 1052 are weaker but they also cost less. That makes sense, right? When you have to base (or die) and you don't have 1,250 gold, it's nice to pick up one of those items instead of having to go back out without gaining anything from the gold you've collected so far. Now you have to deal with two item 1058 and still have a combine of 1,100. Rabadon's is obviously a better item now, but it's build path is worse.

Poske1 votes

As a midlane main

Rabadon went from trash tier to viable

And Buildpath is better

NO BACKTALK

The Yetii Rider6 votes

It actually stuns me just how long Riot was content to let Deathcap be bad. Deathcap literally went from being every mage's third item to never being bought, overnight, and Riot didn't say anything about it for two fucking years.

Poske1 votes

Midlane is the most popular role. This is why they didnt care

And they have no idea how to fix this issue of mid being the most popular role since season1

Bisaknosp5 votes

i actually dont like it some champs seems to profit from it tho (Kassadin Ryze come to mind)

i hate the new ludens i actually feel like dealing no damage when i play ahri and i completed it i dont even clear the caster minions (without ludens passive) with a q idk maybe i'm doing something wrong but it feels horrible to play with these new items

PopcornBunni4 votes

{quoted}

i actually dont like it some champs seems to profit from it tho (Kassadin Ryze come to mind)

i hate the new ludens i actually feel like dealing no damage when i play ahri and i completed it i dont even clear the caster minions (without ludens passive) with a q idk maybe i'm doing something wrong but it feels horrible to play with these new items

Luden's only has 10 AP less (And for 100 gold less, as opposed to the ~200g that 10 AP is worth). Granted you're missing out on the +10% movement speed, but that wouldn't effect clear speed. The more likely change you're feeling is the removal of the +5 bonus damage minions take, separate from the item changes.

Poske1 votes

Made a thread saying the rework was designed by a ryze/kassadin main

Glad I am not the only one aware

I Main Swain4 votes

i think it could ABSOLUTELY still use some improvements, especially for burst oriented mages, but that being said im extremely happy with the diversification this put in and i hope that this will be followed by yet even more improvements

Häxel3 votes

well enjoy your mordekaiser bot, how supportchanges for patch 8.6 look it kidna looks like beside geting rid finaly of supportitems on other roles like gp top it could also be the deead of doublerelic bot morde ;)

Ahristocats3 votes

who the hell builds relic on morde since it doesn't give shield anymore? you can't even proc bandit you build dark seal on morde not relic

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

it's more for gold gen for both you and your support and also sustain by smiting minions. He's melee so he doesn't have that the issue of executing minions.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

Do you think Spellbinder is worth rushing on bot lane Morde, or is Rylai's rush still better?

Ahristocats4 votes

No youre too squishy i tried that If you ever rush it you need to be carefull at NEVER NEVER fighting

I rush Rylai so i slow and get 300 hp--->means i'm harder to kill, then Liandry, and sometimes i feel like getting item 1058

ChaosThief2 votes

Now all we need is Rod of Ages to give 120 AP again when scaled up :^ )

Nea1042 votes

We needed more damage, actually.

Bârd2 votes

item 3905 is now my single favorite item in the game.

PopcornBunni1 votes

{quoted}

item 3905 is now my single favorite item in the game.

I had previously built item 3312 on midlaners with bad ap ratios (Anivia, Taliyah, AurelionSol mostly), so having this as a real item feels so much better. The ghosts proc Glacial Augment if you want to try some extra spicy strats : )

MorgManBasher2 votes

I feel like rushing item 3151 on morde isn't that great anymore, unless you are against a tank.

Feel like you are better off doing item 3116 into item 3146 or item 3916 when against a squishy. The lack of magic pen is a really debbie downer for me, personally.

I find myself getting item 3116 item 3916 a lot more first before item 3151 on most of my burn champs just because the pen is more important to me early game Brand Zyra

AirKingNeo1 votes

Spellbinder is shit though. It's impossible to get stacked for a strong active.

Ahristocats8 votes

dafuq? you spam E 24/7 on morde same with W, and W gives 2 stacks

then press spellbinder get movement speed, use ult+E and adc is dead,

AirKingNeo1 votes

Except for the part where it's impossible to stack. Kayle uses E all the damn time and I don't really see anything.

Morde W giving 2 stacks is kinda nice tho. I really only see Cassio (and AP Ezreal?) using this item.

ÈvilMorty1 votes

I find that on mages like Anivia Ryze Cassiopeia Mostly tear building mages, that the build doesnt change much from roa, arch and liandrys but now we do more dmg

Thefrostyviking1 votes

The Liandry change must be pretty good on morde too with the damage buff and max health damage right?

I tried playing vel koz and while i got myself wrecked by a zoe i still did a ton of damage despite that, now i just have to try lissandra^^

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