Why is GP under-balanced to compensate for his 0 counterplay barrel drop

OyddAWqJ5r·May 3, 2017·7 votes·565 views

Why isn't that toxic 0 counterplay interaction simply removed in favor of buffing him?

If you don't get what i mean i mean proccing a barrel explosion then placing another barrel at the end of the chain that can't be destroyed for 0 counterplay free AoE damage.

Edit: By underbalanced I mean every other aspect of his kit outside his E that has actually been nerfed in an attempt to balance him while preserving this unfun mechanic.

Edit 2: When a barrel chain explodes, you should not be able to put another barrel into the chain of explosions mid-explosion. Since alot of people had no clue what I was talking about, that's what I meant.

The current chain should be locked and any barrels placed thereafter shouldn't chain with the ongoing explosion.

30 Comments

OtterlyLostMay 3, 20173 votes

It is an extremely difficult thing to do and takes quite a bit of practice... That said, I feel like GP isn't underbuffed at all and is in a good spot. Though his early game is frustrating to play against. :/ He sits top, like Nasus, and farms the entire game and never looks for a fight but can still impact the map with a global ult. His global ult is the thing that frustrates me about GP. And the fact that his Barrels don't cost mana; that's always been bullshit. Late game he has literally free wave clear at his disposal.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20172 votes

I meant more that if he doesn't exploit the 0 counterplay, no enemy interaction version of his barrel explosions he is definitely much weaker. Meaning he is basically forced to play in this manner.

SalronMay 3, 20172 votes

Can we not change what makes GP fun to play when he's in a good spot atm

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20175 votes

It's just not fun to play against. Doesn't make him overbearing since it doesn't do too much early game and late game he doesn't have as much opportunity to do so in teamfights outside of stagnant sieges but that laning interaction of no interaction is really unfun.

Feel like the barrel health counterplay mechanic really goes to waste when it's used like that in lane.

SalronMay 4, 20171 votes

About half of the champions in the game aren't fun to play against Gonna change them too? No? Then that's not a valid reason for changing anything

OyddAWqJ5rMay 4, 20171 votes

Yes! Yes if they are legitimately just unfun and uninteresting to play against definitely yes. And therefore it is most definitely a valid reason for change.

This game is meant to be competitive, strategic and challenging but we can't forget at it's core it is supposed to be fun just like any other game.

That's how it got popular in the first place and the reason it still is.

RalanrMay 3, 20171 votes

"Skill expression" I think.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20172 votes

Most likely. Looks flashy and is hard to pull off. But it comes at the cost of interaction, counterplay and just general fun-to-play-against value.

DoozkuMay 3, 20171 votes

Under-balanced? Most gp players think he's fine as is.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20172 votes

Under-balanced in other aspects to afford to put his whole power budget into his 0 counterplay E cheese

RalanrMay 3, 20171 votes

He's not really under-balanced. Many aspects to his kit are strong enough to make his weak laning phase not an issue.

DoozkuMay 3, 20171 votes

Do you even play gp? His entire power budget isn't in his E...

Passive: Really strong passive, especially in the early game. Gives you strong trade power, good escapes, and can shred towers

Q: All of the damage from barrels comes primarily from this spell. Even without barrels, this spell hits hard and can be used to poke in the early game.

W: Mana was nerfed, but since gp always gets a mana sustain item this doesn't hurt much if you don't spam it. Strong heal at low health and the cleanse is always strong.

E: Powerful spell that is stronger than most of his other spells, but is also the defining reason you play gp.

R: The early game damage on this spell was nerfed, but it still hurts especially with tld. But you don't need it to do damage with this. It gets much better with levels and especially the upgrades turn this spell into a great ultimate.

Please do your research when you complain about stuff, since you come off as some whiney QQ'er that doesn't want to learn to play against a champion and instead wants them to be nerfed because "rito plz fix".

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20171 votes

You come across as a know-it-all-that-really-knows-nothing who thinks they know how other people think and gives them a right to put them down with nonconstructive criticisms that attack the person directly.

And I have no trouble destroying GP nor have I ever felt the match-up was unbearably difficult in or out of lane.

I'm simply addressing another case of unintended and unnecessary exploitation of a gameplay mechanic that removes an intended gameplay counterplay mechanic that could afford to make the champion stronger and more well rounded if the particular exploit was fixed.

But is it so hard to understand that one can bring up a discussion about something worth discussing without regarding it as QQ or do you just love to personally attack people that much?

DoozkuMay 3, 20171 votes

Sorry then, came off as too aggresive. I've been pretty stressed recently I still have to disagree however.

Triple barrel (I assume that's what you refer to when you refer to his E cheese) was a part of Gankplank's kit since conception, infact in the Champion spotlight Phreak points it out. Using it sounds like a way to negate counterplay, but it costs Gangplank a lot.

People say that his barrels are op because they are resourceful, but because of how powerful they are, they are a resource in themselves. When you do a triple barrel, you waste all of your barrels, which means that you are going to be out of a reliable escape soon because barrels are the main way that you disengage fights. In teamfights, you lose the ability to drop a barrel and pop it quickly because of it's low health fall rate. When you triple barrel, it better hit the backline or else you will be losing a lot of damage for not a lot of payoff.

In the lane phase, the damage is weak and GP has to use all of his barrels to do it. If he uses it on you, try to engage on him after since he'll likely be lacking barrels. You can dodge it with any sort of mobility or shielding, it's fairly predictable. In fact I rarely use this combo in the lane phase, at least vs melee toplaners, since I'd rather just keep myself safe with barrels, freeze the wave, and poke out the enemy with Q. I'd be more worried about his Q poke than his barrel combos if I were melee.

I don't think he needs nerfs or changes. But if he had to have them, I'd nerf his slow/ms from procing barrels or passive, instead of removing the triple barrel. He gets so much safety from this that he gets to control the lane phase despite being a late game monster. If you get the jungler to come up there, however, he's pretty boned.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 4, 20171 votes

Just watched the entire champion spotlight again. He never uses it nor talks about it. Unintended interaction m8.

Do note! I do not think GP needs nerfs. I just think this interaction needs to be removed. He will definitely need buffs after which is where they can easily toss some love into the rest of his nerfed kit.

DoozkuMay 4, 20171 votes

Which one did you watch? This one?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZhu_FukGIQ&ab_channel=MagikarpUsedFly Because that's not the right one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kysDbC-NTo&ab_channel=LeagueofLegends This is the right one. Skip to 6:40. There it is.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 4, 20171 votes

Oh seems you are correct fam. Dunno how I missed it though I definitely skipped through it. Still a dumb interaction and an oversight in development when trying to create a champion with meaningful interactions.

They want to fix how uninteractive GP lanes are? Well fix that interaction and maybe we might get places.

Darkdemon653May 3, 20171 votes

His E is probably the most interactive ability in the game.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20172 votes

Except when this exploit is utilized and the entirety of the enemy interaction portion is removed for the sake of "skill expression".

RequiemsfireMay 3, 20171 votes

What do you mean? In lane he simply spends time using them to zone you and poke you down, if he's good enough you won't even be able to retaliate at all. If he's losing lane hard enough then he simply chains barrels to farm. If you catch him he just cleanses any CC and runs for the hills. How is that interactive?

Colgate GatorMay 3, 20171 votes

I mean, technically, destroying the barrel is kind of the counterplay.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20172 votes

Which is exactly why there is no counterplay when he can detonate an out of reach barrel and place one directly on you that explodes before it counts down.

VekknaMay 3, 20171 votes

Even if you're ranged, his Q missile speed is a lot faster than most ranged casters without attack speed.

I managed to get around that by using my Teemo rune page when I see him in mid. It's not like you can kill him anyway, and the attack speed at least gives you a chance of not being zoned out of lane because he placed one barrel.

VekknaMay 3, 20171 votes

I think people are downvoting because he's not undertuned even with the bullshit mechanic. Is getting half-healthed by one barrel undertuned?

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20171 votes

Outside of E I meant. He's definitely balanced as is but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

CatastrophicMay 3, 20171 votes

It's not 0 counterplay at all. You can see him shooting a barrel to do it (wind up) and you can dodge it if you predict where he'll place the last barrel. Also, the triple barrel combo means that gangplank will be useless for about 5 seconds (unless he actually set up barrels before the fight, and still has some up his sleeve), you can destroy his first or second barrel. Think of it like a vel koz E, an AOE spell that does damage and has a short wind up, that leaves its caster vulnerable after using it.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a GP main, but I'd rather have you disregard that fact and reply to my arguments rather than my rank or bias (which I of course have).

OyddAWqJ5rMay 3, 20171 votes

Predicting it is easy, but dodging a near instant explosion that he can place anywhere within 1000 units with a 225 unit blast radius is damn near impossible and requires either you to have a dash, use flash or hope the enemy GP doesn't have a mouse in order to dodge it.

Granted it does have a larger cooldown to recharge 3 barrels I still see no reason that should mean it should be allowed to have the extremely minute counterplay it currently does.

Guyy FieriMay 3, 20171 votes

There is counterplay, you gotta be able to take the first in the chain before he does or you need to be able to dodge it, not the easiest but there is counterplay

zlumpyMay 3, 20171 votes

Mana cost on barrels and done. Gives more windows of opportunity for opponents to actually farm in lane and punishes overly aggresive barrel use if they miss. Then the counter is break or dodge. Dodge enough times and now he is oom and running for the hills.

Plus riot nerfed a ton of mana items so other spammers couldn't have their cake and eat it to why does this guy get to dodge that design weakness built into a ton of other characters?

OyddAWqJ5rMay 4, 20171 votes

I mean if that's how they wanna approach it sure. Half-solves the problem. But the interaction is still dumb and shouldn't exist.