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Grievous Wounds vs Mundo (Morellonomicon rant)

AHarmlessTaco··7 votes·1,898 views

Okay, so I only ever get the chance to play Mundo in ARAM, but I think hes pretty fun there.

My complaint however, is that his ult is supposed to be something you use at low health and it is supposed to, you know, heal him.

How is Mundo supposed to function when Grievous Wounds is SO EASILY ACQUIRED by an almost mandatory item on mages? item 3165

I mean the item legit reads: "Inflict Grievous Wounds on Mundo when he is supposed to be activating his ult, you know, at around 40% health."

By buying this item whose primary function isn't even to shut down healing (High AP, CDR, and Mana, the GW is just extra), you more or less cut Mundo's ult in half for no real reason. This probably applies to Volibear too.

I don't know, it just seems really unfair to these champions who, instead of getting shields or resistance buffs, they just have their healing slashed.

/EndRant

EDIT: I guess what I am really saying is that universally good items shouldn't counter any champion in particular. Zhonyas is fine because it has low AP and costs a lot. Rylai's would be good but it gives too much AP. Morellonomicon is just flat out good and has little competition and ALSO counters real reliant champions.

28 Comments

Chamuel852 votes

I think that Mundo does better by popping his ult as he goes into the fight... mainly because of Morellos, but with the addition of item 3123 that's less so. However, that movement speed buff still helps.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Then I mean, maybe they should change it to 10% max health instead of 20% current health. That way it isnt so misleading and lets you ult at any point without feeling bad about wasting health.

Chamuel851 votes

Yeah, I agree. A lot of Mundo's power does come from his health regeneration which does get pretty damaged for 800g item 3123

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

I dont mind Executioners AS MUCH because it doesnt last as long, doesnt bolster damage by that much, and overall hinders an item slot in the long run. Its a good example of a counter item early on that becomes a very champion specific purchase late game. (If no one else on your team heals much, GJ you just made them buy Mortal Reminder instead of Lord Dominiks.)

Primaquarius1 votes

I prefer ulting around 50% HP anyway, especially when I know Im about to take more damage.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I mean sure, but the second you drop below 40% or so, you lose all of your extra healing for 8 seconds. 8. Just because they got ONE tick of damage on you below the threshhold, your ult is cut by 40% for the rest of its duration.....

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

I mean sure, but the second you drop below 40% or so, you lose all of your extra healing for 8 seconds. 8. Just because they got ONE tick of damage on you below the threshhold, your ult is cut by 40% for the rest of its duration.....

Skill gap man. You're able to look at your enemy item builds. If you see an item with Grevious Wounds you should perhaps think about ulting sooner.

A Doorknob2 votes

{quoted}

Skill gap man. You're able to look at your enemy item builds. If you see an item with Grevious Wounds you should perhaps think about ulting sooner.

Poor argument when you think about it. They nerfed item 3139 as well as the removal of pink ward because it "countered" certain champs and yet these 2 items: item 3165 item 3123 counter life reggers and they still exist. TBH Riot just looks like a chicken with their head cut off. Yet if we were to follow your logic (which they should btw), then this item item 3139 and pink ward should of remained. I'm sure there are many other items that they removed due to poor judgement to which now-a-days would balance the game better. Don't ask me which one, I don't remember the old items that well.

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

Poor argument when you think about it. They nerfed item 3139 as well as the removal of pink ward because it "countered" certain champs and yet these 2 items: item 3165 item 3123 counter life reggers and they still exist. TBH Riot just looks like a chicken with their head cut off. Yet if we were to follow your logic (which they should btw), then this item item 3139 and pink ward should of remained.

item 3065 item 3146 item 3074 item 3072 ETC. Items to counter items. Pink was removed cause it was an item to directly counter the main tactic of the enemy and gave them a chance to work with two types of invisibility and as they said - balance around them without having an item directly screw up the entire champs balance.

A Doorknob2 votes

{quoted}

item 3065 item 3146 item 3074 item 3072 ETC. Items to counter items. Pink was removed cause it was an item to directly counter the main tactic of the enemy and gave them a chance to work with two types of invisibility and as they said - balance around them without having an item directly screw up the entire champs balance.

Isn't that the purpose of items though... to counter champs? I mean why would Veigar buy item 3157 as a first item against Zed if not to directly counter his ult? The entire purpose of itemization is to give you an edge over another champ. It can be one of the differences for an adc buy item 3153 over item 3072 .

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

Zhonyas comes with a VERY significant trade off in that its cost is enormous and it does not give as much AP as others. Rylai's is a good counter item to low mobility bruisers, but it doesn't have a good tradeoff and has become too universal. Morellonomicon having Grievous Wounds is fine, but it should not be a universal pick up. It has no trade offs yet counters some people very hard.

I have no problem with items or champions countering other champs, but each should come at a cost.

A Doorknob2 votes

{quoted}

Zhonyas comes with a VERY significant trade off in that its cost is enormous and it does not give as much AP as others. Rylai's is a good counter item to low mobility bruisers, but it doesn't have a good tradeoff and has become too universal. Morellonomicon having Grievous Wounds is fine, but it should not be a universal pick up. It has no trade offs yet counters some people very hard.

I have no problem with items or champions countering other champs, but each should come at a cost.

Huh, never thought of it that way. Makes sense.

LordGeovanni1 votes

except invisibility was never the main tactic of any assassin except Evelyn the main tactic they all had was to burst some one down before their team could respond then they would use the invisibility to run

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

except invisibility was never the main tactic of any assassin except Evelyn the main tactic they all had was to burst some one down before their team could respond then they would use the invisibility to run

Invisibility was the main tactic of Rengar, Shaco, Evelyn, Talon, and a strong per of LB's original kit. Doesn't matter if they use it offensively or defensively - it's there for a reason. Not to mention Twitch, Teemo, Kha, Vayne.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Rengar has invisbility but his main tactic is bush jump and ferocity stacks. Shaco's main tactic is disruption and back stabs (though he arguably uses invsibility more than the rest)

talons man tactic now is stacking blades and before it was the instagib combo. teemo's r invisibilty maybe but rarely does a teemo player use his invisibility. kha zix jump q w auto jump out combo vayne is an overloaded fuk who builds crit with lifesteal and has max hp true damage the invisibility is only a by product of an ult that gives you extra movement speed and ad

LordGeovanni1 votes

20% of 50% of your max hp is 10% of your max hp you reach 40% any way and if you for any reason take magic damage at that time you get hit with the grevious wounds and reduced healing

theArtifacts1 votes

Grievous Wounds is a debuff that reduces self-healing by a massive 40% Spirit Visage increases self heal by 20% Masteries can also increase self healing. So really.. it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

AHarmlessTaco4 votes

But I mean its his ult. You buy Spirit Visage and take those masteries to enhance your character same as anyone, and guess what? Grievous wounds reduces the effectiveness of the items and masteries you took, so all of a sudden you wasted a bunch of gold and slots and they didn't go out of their way to gain GW. It's just kinda lame...

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

But I mean its his ult. You buy Spirit Visage and take those masteries to enhance your character same as anyone, and guess what? Grievous wounds reduces the effectiveness of the items and masteries you took, so all of a sudden you wasted a bunch of gold and slots and they didn't go out of their way to gain GW. It's just kinda lame...

It may be kind of lame but you're essentially suggesting that ____________ champ's ult shouldn't be countered by __________. Get it?

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

I'm saying if you are going to itemize vs something, it should be a conscious decision. ADCS give up something to get Grievous Wounds when they buy Executioners.

Mages SHOULD give up something when they buy Rylai's, but since its such a strong item overall, they just pick it up because why not.

I am fine with conscious counters, just not tacked on 8 second grievous wounds on high AOE champions.

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying if you are going to itemize vs something, it should be a conscious decision. ADCS give up something to get Grievous Wounds when they buy Executioners.

Mages SHOULD give up something when they buy Rylai's, but since its such a strong item overall, they just pick it up because why not.

First off it's not Rylais that gives grievous wounds ;) Now I do agree that item 3165 could use a nerf, but the grevious wounds part if it isn't the problem. It's the insane mana regen it offers. To use grievous wound you have to get the enemy below 40%. 1v1 vs. Mundo and that's not going to happen. If you're complaining about Mundo dying in a team fight cause of grievous wounds you have to ask yourself what the rest of your team is doing while you engage. Also - Grievous Wounds doesn't stack so having both of those items on one team doesn't do any more healing mitigation than having one or the other.

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

I was using Rylai's as an example of something that should be bought for the passive and should come with a tradeoff, but doesnt. :P

And yeah, overall I was just saying that it's bad to have grievous wounds on an item that is a universal pick up based on its stats.

LordGeovanni1 votes

same thing applies to both item 3116 and item 3165 both are overloaded with stats that you cant keep up with defensively and passives too that give the items too much utility

LordGeovanni1 votes

the point is that grevious wounds should be a concious choice to pick up rather than be cookie cutter because the items is too overloaded with good stuff to pass up

Mokkun1 votes
  1. Morellos isn't mandatory
  2. Executioners has much more effect
  3. Mundo can still get an ass-ton of hp out of that ult even debuffed
  4. If you can't cut Mundo's healing, he's basically unkillable late game. At least during ult. He's actually balanced around the existence of heal debuffs. We've had ignite forever man.
AHarmlessTaco2 votes
  1. Morellos is SO good for a ton of mages. There is no reason not to get it at least by third item unless you don't use mana.
  2. I agree, but in the end you have to get Mortal Reminder over Lord Dominik's Regard, which in itself is a trade-off item.
  3. Assassin's can do a lot of damage while exhausted, doesnt mean they should get exhausted just for you hitting them with a random spell.
  4. I'm fine with ignite. It takes up a summoner slot, is single target, has a long cd, etc... it comes with trade offs. Mundo offers no hard CC, so being unkillable is kind of what he gets instead. That's like Liandry's Torment cutting Sejuani's ult range and aoe by half for no good reason.
Blumpkin Nation1 votes

TBH, most Mundo/Volibear players end up getting so beefy that our team can't bring them down to 40% health fast enough with Morello's. Executioner's doesn't help when the healing is still massive and lasts shorter than Morello's.

IDK Man. Build Spirit Visage, ANY other health item, and Warmog's and you're not going to have a problem healing through Grievous wounds.

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

I guess it would be more important if the other team were ahead. I'm not saying Mundo is UP or anything, I just don't like how strong the debuff is on an item that is universally awesome. Mundo being balanced around GW is also a problem just because of how it forces people to buy Morello and Executioners; he shouldn't be unkillable without those items, nor too easy to kill with them. Zhonya's is a different story because an assassin can just target someone else and you gave up 1000 gold to get the active.

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