League needs more magic damage threats outside of midlane

Zero Skill Tank··11 votes·948 views

Silly thing, Zed is already complete bullshit to fight after lethality buffs, taking most of a squishy HP with combo as bad as R->E->AA, but he is still getting buffed, because picking AD midlaner is basically guaranteed to fraking gimp your team in a meta where you can't really put magic damage dealer anywhere but at mid.

On the other hand, a mage can't really do crap right now, but mages are still pretty much mandatory because you can't afford your enemies to stck armor.

On the third hand, better half of boards complains about marksmen damage, but well no shit that marksmen are allowed to deal such damage - when your team is pretty much guaranteed to have 2 other physical damage threats, a marksmen, who does nothing but deal physical damage, needs to top them off, or they are good for nothing.

The only magic damage threat that is currently any popular outside of mid is Elise, but even she is not that good, and would be complete crap if not for the fact that she deals much needed magic damage.

There are no viable magic damage dealers top and bot, barely any at jungle, and support mages would go into non-existance too, if not for some autofilled people who can't play actual support for crap.

TL;DR riot pls fix. Lack of magic damage options outside of mid completely warps the meta.

31 Comments

Ahristocats5 votes

Mordekaiser

Mecha MaIphite4 votes

there are some degenerates people who play Vladimir Swain top

Rumble also does pretty good magic damage

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Those guys have 6.56% playrate together, Riven alone has more, and Renek has pretty much the same.

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

There are no viable magic damage dealers top and bot

They may not be picked often, but they exist and are viable.

And there's no need to downvote everyone you don't agree with.

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

Anything with playrate below 3.5% percent is an off-meta pick and not really viable. The simplest rule of LoL is that strong champions are picked a lot. Just because there are some diehard Swainmains who will play him no matter what until rework doesn't mean that Swain is able to compete on equal foot with fighters and skirmishers right now. He is nowhere close.

And I don't downvote all post that I don't agree with, only ones with no actual arguments, like yours.

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

Popular and fun champs also get picked a lot, while some strong champs can get overlooked because they're not fun, flashy, or simply weren't noticed yet. But even if it was a direct correlation, low playrates can just mean niche picks/boring champs.

I'd have accepted it if you downvoted me for calling vlad players degenerates but saying that I don't have an argument just isn't true. You said that League needed more AP threats outside mid, which is true, but then you said that there were no viable AP threats outside mid aside from Elise, which isn't. I'm just responding by saying that there are.

EDIT: Also, Rumble is at 5.3%, and 15th in pick rate in top lane.

yesnobanana1 votes

Hey vlad players ARE degenerats tho.

PopcornBunni4 votes

Top Akali Ekko Heimerdinger Karthus Kassadin Lissandra Kennen Kayle Lulu Rumble Swain Ryze Teemo Vladimir Azir Maokai

Jung Elise Evelynn Diana Ivern Nidalee Maokai Shaco Gragas Fiddlesticks

Bot Tristana Ziggs Corki Varus Azir

Supp Annie Anivia AurelionSol Brand Fiddlesticks Zyra Zilean Velkoz Taliyah Sona Syndra Orianna Maokai Kayle Lulu

Even if some of these aren't common picks, they still get played in those roles and can do a significant amount of magic damage

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

Listing champions with crap playrates only proves how much meta is warped against magic damage dealers outside of mid.

nm10101 votes

You listed trist as an ap botlane, but left out koggles :(

PhantomGG3 votes

I been saying this for years, it's also not just that. The fact mages can only be played mid, makes mid lane meta very stale and boring, most Ad assassins with the exclusion of talon can only be played in the mid laner. However if you go AD mid, than you are basically an asshole for you either A forced your jungler to play Elise, or B you now have a all AD team and fucked over your teamates. I believe this is one of the things that led to FULL ap Supports becoming so popular, but even that is a bad idea in many cases.

If we had AP champions that could be played in other lanes, it would really help a lot. And I don't mean off meta cheesy BS, i mean a AP champion that is specifically designed for top lane that is not Rumble who falls in and out of meta more often than a teenage relationship.

King of TroIIs1 votes

Play Tank mid, Mage bot, Marksman top, Assassin jg, Tank support. Get banned because you broke meta.

Ralanr3 votes

Mage junglers man. We need that back.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

We need ANYTHING outside midlane back.

Melledoneus3 votes

Agreed, buff Shen Q. We need more magic damage.

Of Mace and Men1 votes

Yes! Excellent Idea [slayer-jinx-wink]

dunder kill3 votes

Silly thing, Zed is already complete bullshit to fight after lethality buffs, taking most of a squishy HP with combo as bad as R->E->AA, but he is still getting buffed,

Translation: "I dont know how to punish a melee champ's 22 second cooldown as a ranged mage"

EarthyMadness2 votes

Fiddlesticks jungler.

If you're good, it's terrifying to the enemy team.

Evelynn is just terrifying in general when she's jg, but you have to be very good and pick your battles well.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Their collective playrate is below 4%, Kha and Jarvan both double that and they are not even top 2 ad threats in jungle. Saying that 'this champ and that champ are good if you are good with them' changes nothing, that applies to all champions.

Shablagoo2 votes

Chogath top lane, jungle

Swain top lane

Akali top lane

Kennen top lane

Rumble top lane

Gragas Jg can be played top which sometimes can be disgusting

Kayle top honestly cancer

Elise Literally the best carry jungle for the longest time till some nerfs

Maokai top and jungle

Zed? Fking zed? The champions that has been literally shit this whole season? You also understand that mid lane is dominated by ap mid laners too, I mean there isnt many ad champions mid lane anyway to begin with and after zed gets a buff to actually bring him back you leave the lane? item 3157 literally one item completely shuts him down, in fact you dont even need to build that, just play malz and you have a free tower and kill pressure that will be consistent the whole game, and watch zed get to the point where he is useless. All you have to do is wait for him to jump on your adc, press r and he is dead. Can we just stop this mages, ap, app itemization need a buff I generally dont see it at all nothing about ap is bad or suffering at all, really dont think It needs to go in anymore lanes they dominate mid even if they gt pushed out mid they will get another lane like when they starting going bot.

LadyRenly2 votes

"There are no viable magic damage dealers top and bot"

Are we just going to discount Mordekaiser here?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

He's one of the better bot laners in solo q right now, so yes, of course we are.

Some Noob Dude1 votes

Rumble, Vlad, Swain, Gragas, mage supports, Kayle, Kennen, Mordekaiser and Casseopeia top is still a niche pick that sees play.

Zero Skill Tank4 votes

Collective pick rate of all champions you listed at top is 12,14%, less than Riven + Renek. Gragas is also almost exclusively build tank, so he is not a real damage dealer, but that doesn't matter, meta is so biased toward AD that including tanks doesn't really change outcome.

Mage supports are nonexistant too, the most played ATM is Brand with 2.87%, and collectively they have about 14% playrate (depending on who you count as mage support), less than Lulu alone (and Lulu isn't even the most popular support ATM). NONE of them have positive win ratio.

As I said, AP damage dealers are virtually non-exitant outside of midlane.

Eedat1 votes

On the other hand, a mage can't really do crap right now, but mages are still pretty much mandatory

If theyre shit thats incapable of doing anything, then why are they mandatory?

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

If you are genuinly curious, re-read the post. Literally next sentence.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Top: Chogath Bot: Well of course there aren't any good mage bot laners, since they aren't supposed to be there unless they are supports. They still have good ap "supports" though: Brand Zyra Lux Sona, etc.

Jungle: Evelynn Diana

RankOneUganda1 votes

wow. zed is bullshit huh.

if there is an ad assassin to complain about its Talon .

yeha pink ward my ass right? good luck dealing with him

rtbf2216514121 votes

People seem to think Malz can't jungle anymore just because he can't solo baron as well, if at all.

Kaìju1 votes

Kog works bot for a hybrid but I know what you mean. Personally I want a new class of marksman. The more traditional AD ones, and then ones that do AP. Maybe types of champs with low cooldowns that are attack steroids where your auto attacks are converted to AP for a time, and other such things? Kinda like Azir was meant to be, but less burst and more DPS. Just something to make bot more then "we need an ADC" since riot themselves said they want to open up bot lane to more then just ranged ADCs.

Erockandroll1 votes

I'm guessing that OP is referring to APC levels of magic damage. (Assuming he's not abused by the Maokai, Gragas, and Cho'gath suggestions.)

That would make it even more difficult, if you are to assume that Tanks can supply sufficient amounts of magic damage, yet Tank's still seem to be in the meta for Jungle and sometimes top lane.

Jungle Diversity? Most mages can't fit the bill. Since they tend to focus on Burst over DPS, it's difficult to get efficient clear speed. And if the mage lacks mobility, it's that much harder to pull off a gank. The only exception is fiddlesticks who's kit is made almost exclusively for the Jungle. Other than that, you have Diana, Elise, Nidalee as AP Junglers, but they're not mages, they're divers and Assassins.

Alt bot lane? Mord is still plagued by the fact that Riot still doesn't know how to support melee alternates in the bot position. Ziggs did have some success in the bot lane, and went there organically. But he lacks actual DPS, and was only meta when ADC's were weak. The only magic damage ADC is corki. (At the very least, Predominantly magic damage) Yet is being balanced around his mid lane performance. (Probably thank the roaming threat of his package for that.)

Support? I seem to remember people complaining when Supports had a decent ability to deal damage. I'm not sure that works well in this meta. Since tanks are so meta, it's difficult to poke them down. (Where sustain, or wardens, will protect the ADC from harm.)

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