To be totally honest this feels like something that belongs in the showerthoughts reddit, but Assassins had their burst "delayed" because jumping some unfortunate ADC bastard and spilling loads of hot messy damage onto them was considered unhealthy (for good reason).
Isn't point and click shielding/healing the exact reverse of this..?
Edge of Daybreak3 votesIt very much is. The assassin update was basically just a hypocrisy megastorm but no one really cared because it was nerfing assassins. While 100-0 burst in a moment was dumb and needed changes they basically just shafted the assassins and said okay balanced. That's shit I would expect from boards but never from riot games. In no world is delayed vs instant fair unless the delayed is overtuned to the point of being broken.
I would want anyone from riot who okayed these changes to tell me how you deal with locket + exhaust + redemption on top of the supports entire kit as an assassin with delayed damage. I'm not even going to talk about phantom dancer and death's dance plus knights vow being built on other roles because it feels impossible before those all come in.
The changed assassins, the ones left anyway since leblanc and rengar are just gone, received nothing to help with their feast or famine case. Their class specific items all got neutered because Riot will not have a game where ADC's cannot hold your items hostage. After the damage masteries lowered burst significantly and they nerfed most of them being an assassin is just pointless over picking a mage or fighter. It's insane how much easier it is to burst people on non assassins while having a better laning phase and often times CC.
Edit. For example with feast or famine go watch a video of a fed talon killing someone. It looks retarded fast and broken. Now go watch an on level or behind talon do it. I've had to watch high elo assassin players basically afk if they were behind because they just have no options once they are but if you're ahead most squishies are just walking gold sacs and that type of gameplay is bland.
Divewing1 votesThe only real way to play Talon behind I've found is jump the adc then ult for invisibility to just cause a huge distraction and hope it's enough for my team to bring down the hurt
Shadòw3 votesit is.
usually you could counter it if you burst faster than the enemy Shielder reacts and it all depended on reaction time.
well.. now you need to have some pretty serious brain lack if you can't react fast enough to spam your stuff on the ADC.
RenownedWheat422 votesThe instant-burst issue was 100-0. When I click 1 for FotM, or E for Rakan's shield, I don't give them a whole life-bar's worth of shielding. It's not really the same.
Wildstyle1 votesNo but you when press 1 for fotm, 2 for locket, 3 for redemption, and d for exhaust it gives them about two or three life-bars.... Then when you add PD and DD into the mix along with a knights vow somewhere you essentially have an unkillable target...
RenownedWheat422 votesIf you're trying to 1v2 the enemy ADC + Supp then of course you're going to fail. It's ONE versus TWO. But in team fights that's not really an option.
Multiple champs focusing even my shielded target can burst people down quicker than Redemption can pop. Even through my KV, even through their PD - those items do not make ADCs gods. That's an exaggeration.
Wildstyle1 votesHave you ever played an assassin? Once the support/top/jungle (everyone builds these items now) gets locket, knights vow and the adc has their items its EXTREMELY hard to burst them. Obviously unkillable is an exaggeration but its damn near close. It's not fair that assassins have delayed burst against these items, which is why you rarely see them unless its a one trick or something.
RenownedWheat422 votesI played a lot of them, yeah. Tried to be a jungle main before I switched to top/support. It's difficult to manage with a poor setup, sure, but the reverse is also true.
Divewing1 votesFair point.
I kinda don't really have much to say to that right now, theres a point I want to make about how without that 100-0 insta-burst in the game right now the insta-shields are no longer necessary, but I don't really know how I want to say it
RenownedWheat422 votesDamaging spells hurt as soon as they hit their target. Many of these are instant. AAs can't even be dodged. Why should supports not be able to heal/shield through that stuff?
Divewing2 votesOn the flip side why should assassins be the only ones with minimal guaranteed effects?
Perhaps we've reached a stage in the game where the mentality and justification used for the assassin changes could be applied a little more widely across the board.
RenownedWheat422 votesPositioning should be heavily considered for these champs with INSANE damage capabilities. If you find your pick and burst them down as per your role, awesome. If you try to 1v2 a squishy who's got shield and heals from his support, not such a great idea.
Things should be thought about. Assassins shouldn't just get to kill people without worrying about setup specifically because they're assassins.
Divewing1 votesBelieve me, I am one of the first people who would jump in to defend positioning as a means of counterplay on a macro level, and I'm not saying Assassins should be able to jump any target with reckless abandon, but the same should be true for the reverse.
An assassin shouldn't feel completely option-less because the target is standing near a support - it should be dangerous and risky, but not completely negated.
Now this sentiment may be exaggerated and/or anecdotal, but this is just how it feels right now.
RenownedWheat422 votesI've had a fair amount of situations where I've been unable to protect my ADC or any other squishy from an assassin because of clever play on their part. Perhaps we overextend, they focus me down in a couple seconds due to having no budget, and then my ADC loses all of their "tankiness" with me gone and dies since they no longer have anyone to keep the assassin off 'em.
I've had times where I've been the assassin to jump in, clear the squishy with or without their support, then jump out.
I've also had plenty of times where I HAVE saved my carry, and many others where I was unable to get the kill despite my damage as the assassin.
Supports don't just tack on a huge amount of extra health at the push of one button, and even if we do have a lot of shielding the individual ones are weak due to low options for scaling. You can tear through a Rakan E in a couple of autos, tops. Face of the Mountain is only really useful for the slow. Locket is good, but still really easy to fight through on a supp with only sightstone.
I don't think it's that big of an issue in reality, even if it can be vastly exaggerated on paper.
Divewing1 votesMaybe, but that was kind of the point of my post, to create this kind of discussion.
Shablagoo1 votesActually if you stack most shields you can give them a full health bar, shields stack, also the fact that they are instant and the fact that assassin's burst is delayed means you cant kill them in the allotted burst window. You are right that 2v1 vs assassins is not the same, it makes sense to reduce the insta-burst in terms of 1v1 vs assassin, but in that case then like 1v2 vs supports you shouldn't win then adc vs assassin 1v1 shouldn't unless their is some outplay.