Can we get Atma's Impaler back?

Hibeki··31 votes·1,933 views

This is a damage creep meta. Without damage you serve a very specific purpose at a very specific time.

In a normal game, your time as a pure tank is ONLY relevant from about 18 minutes to 29 minutes.

This very narrow time window is basically nothing for pure tanks. Because before 18 minutes, you don't have tank items yet. And after 29 minutes, everybody else has their damage creep penetration items, so your tank stats are basically useless.

If you want to be decently relevant in this game, you NEED damage.

This is why the only juggernauts that can build straight tank and be semi successful are Nasus and Volibear, because they have so much damage in their kit alone they don't need offense. They still die incredibly quickly though.

Everybody else in the game builds the 'off tank' items like Black Cleaver, Sunfire, etc. that gives them the damage to fight back with but still gives the defensive stats to soak a bit of damage.

This isn't season 2. Frozen Mallet + Atma's Impaler does not make or break top lane anymore. Atma's isn't even meant for the tanks, it's meant for everybody else.

If I'm playing Jarvan, I NEED damage to be relevant, but I want a little but of defense as well. I'm gonna build atmas for that armor, and that max hp scaling AD means that thing will continually pump out damage as my build path progresses.

Hell, even as an adc, I see I need armor, so literally my only option is Guardian Angel. Now I can build Atma's, and have AD/Crit with armor.

#BringbackAtma's

51 Comments

ProtestantCaesar18 votes

item 3748 Titanic Hydra is the new Atma's Impaler. It's an item that lets you do more damage the more health you have. But what are the differences?

No crit and no armor. Instead, some health. (It's also melee only.) This is not an item you buy for armor on an ADC. It's for tanks and juggernauts to do damage while building mostly tanky.

The other difference is that its passive doesn't give AD, it gives damage on-hit. Since there are so many abilities in this game that scale with AD (and it wasn't always that way), this is important.

Ahristocats6 votes

titanic hydra is terrible on for example darius due to darius doing most of his damage from spells

that's the difference

Hawkefire2 votes

Sort of. Darius does most of his damage via his passive which gives a rather insane amount of ad and deals huge dot. Generally if I am healthy as Darius and my passive is fully procced I will just keep smacking the enemy with autoattacks because it does more damage and does it in a more immediate way (keep in mind that while channeling his q he cannot autoattack).

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Sort of. Darius does most of his damage via his passive which gives a rather insane amount of ad and deals huge dot. Generally if I am healthy as Darius and my passive is fully procced I will just keep smacking the enemy with autoattacks because it does more damage and does it in a more immediate way (keep in mind that while channeling his q he cannot autoattack).

Keep in mind that his Q level 5 has 140% total AD scale on the blade and can hit multiple people at a time. Unless you went attack speed darius the Q is always better even if it isn't as immediate.

Hawkefire1 votes

If their are multiple targets, then using Q is indeed better usually. But versus single target it is almost always better to just keep autoattacking.

Keep in mind that the only time you get that 140% scale is when you are on the blade, which also means that you have to step back away from your target, thus meaning you will have to close the distance back in to the target to hit them again.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

If their are multiple targets, then using Q is indeed better usually. But versus single target it is almost always better to just keep autoattacking.

Keep in mind that the only time you get that 140% scale is when you are on the blade, which also means that you have to step back away from your target, thus meaning you will have to close the distance back in to the target to hit them again.

You dont have to step back, moving to the left or right without losing too much distance between them and their retreat path is do-able.

Once again, unless you're running attack speed darius, you're not losing any dps potential by activating decimate in a duel. None of that is taking into account the power of in-combat sustain which his decimate can provide.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

That's cause darius isn't a tank he's a juggernaut a sub-class of fighters, this is meant to be a TANK item, working as intended.

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

item 3748 Titanic Hydra is the new Atma's Impaler. It's an item that lets you do more damage the more health you have. But what are the differences?

No crit and no armor. Instead, some health. (It's also melee only.) This is not an item you buy for armor on an ADC. It's for tanks and juggernauts to do damage while building mostly tanky.

The other difference is that its passive doesn't give AD, it gives damage on-hit. Since there are so many abilities in this game that scale with AD (and it wasn't always that way), this is important.

Exactly so rather than having a broad use with atmas they made an extremely niche item that's only useful on auto attack based champions like Olaf

ProtestantCaesar1 votes

Items that aren't "niche" but are nice on many champions are usually that way because they're too strong. See, for example, the current Rylai's Crystal Scepter item 3116 .

You're asking for an item that ADCs can buy so that those who aren't named Ezreal can reasonably get an Armor item that still gives AD and Crit. And you want it to be good on tanks and juggernauts, too. Hmm...

Someone above mentioned Darius. Can you see why, with juggernauts that have AD scalings on their abilities, an item that gives health and increases their damage dealt, but does not give AD, is easier to balance?

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

yeah but its not comparable. you get more than half the on hit damage simply from your base hp.

Critmaster Garen7 votes

oh pls yes. not for tanks, but.

how about this one?

item 3122 + item 1031

40 ad 15% crit chance 40 armor

Unique passive: critical strikes cause your target to bleed for 10% of your bonus health as magic damage over 3 seconds.

i know at least 2 champions who would love this item XinZhao Garen

but since the 15% crit chance would be enough on its own to make the passive useful, it would fit into a lot of bruiser builds in general.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

For Justice, I would like that item to be in the game.

Only problem is that item isn't in SR.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

For Justice, I would like that item to be in the game.

Only problem is that item isn't in SR.

i wish it was.

since the removal of atmas, and the changes to ghostblade, infinity edge is the only ad/crit item in the game. feelsbadman.

Chad Te Employee1 votes

{[item 3508 ]} INTENSIFIES

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chad Te Employee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G33HinMg,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-05T13:48:36.393+0000)

{[item 3508 ]} INTENSIFIES

yea... but still. stacked with i.e. you wont get the full amount of cdr. you still need another crit item to get most out of it, which means going for a zeal item.

TFBaam1 votes

er gives ad/crit thats what u said only ie gives no one was talking about cdr

Surr20plz4 votes

No, that's what I call my penis now and I have the copyrights.

Dracocrash2 votes

lol'd ;)

Ralanr4 votes

Uhh...this would mainly benefit juggernauts because most tanks scale with AP (in fact the only tanks with AD scalings are Sion, Poppy, and arguably Rek'sai. J4 is more of a diver now).

Also I need to call BS on your timeframe. You have no tank items before 18 minutes? WTF are you building then? Because I'm quite sure I have at least one tank item by 10-12 minutes in.

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

Uhh...this would mainly benefit juggernauts because most tanks scale with AP (in fact the only tanks with AD scalings are Sion, Poppy, and arguably Rek'sai. J4 is more of a diver now).

Also I need to call BS on your timeframe. You have no tank items before 18 minutes? WTF are you building then? Because I'm quite sure I have at least one tank item by 10-12 minutes in.

A singular tank item doesn't do shit.

Because in 18 minutes (assuming it's an entirely neutral lane and you didn't get shut down like pure tanks always do) You're gonna have your starting item, boots, and probably one item built. That does absolutely nothing to tank any decent amount of damage in a non 1v1 fight.

Try tanking 3 ad's with sunfire at 18 minutes and see how that goes.

Now tanking 3 ad's with sunfire, randuins, and a giants belt on the other hand....

Ralanr2 votes

Then don't get shut down in lane. Farm as defensively as possible and punish people who dive you by locking them down under your turret.

Tanks are not great a winning lane duels. They shouldn't be trying to duel anyway.

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

Then don't get shut down in lane. Farm as defensively as possible and punish people who dive you by locking them down under your turret.

Tanks are not great a winning lane duels. They shouldn't be trying to duel anyway.

I don't think you understand how much counterpicks play a part in this meta.

Ralanr2 votes

Do you know how to play passive?

Meep Man3 votes

MasterYi item 3006 item 3748 item 1419 item 3071 item 3022 + Atma's

Why do you forsake us?

Ahristocats1 votes

kill him in 2 sec with damage creep.

Meep Man1 votes

That's not what the forum said last time Tank Yi became a thing

Ahristocats1 votes

this build you listed does way less damage than any carry. You don't have crit, your Q won't crit (except if you have luck).

a carry yi build will remove half of an ADC hf with Q if it crits, tank yi build will just do a normal dps (like volibear) while being squishier.

and last time tank yi was a thing, damage creep wasn't retarded.

Golden Tager X1 votes

Atma's had crit.........................

Ruin Lance1 votes

this build is not good you still will die very fast because you have no REAL defensive items because health item stacking is not a good idea unless you have built some resistances. and also you have no lifesteal. you would probably be tankier with something like item 3074item 3111item 3046item 3031item 3026item 3072

Limrick1 votes

You wouldn't die too fast if you kill them first :^)

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Death is the ultimate CC.

Astôlfo2 votes

It might just be me not knowing much, but I feel like the squishy champions that can abuse every other tank/bruiser item would have a field day with this.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Not really. It was pretty damn worthless on squishies due to the low dmg it provided unless you had massive amounts of health. I think my full HP Olaf (4 warmog+Atmas+Boots) would get about 60/70 AD from it. And that was with 4 Warmogs. Naturally you would gain about 15-20 AD from it.

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

Not really. It was pretty damn worthless on squishies due to the low dmg it provided unless you had massive amounts of health. I think my full HP Olaf (4 warmog+Atmas+Boots) would get about 60/70 AD from it. And that was with 4 Warmogs. Naturally you would gain about 15-20 AD from it.

This was back when building pure tank actually meant something and olaf ruled top lane. Season 2 was a bruiser meta, and for good reason. The dominant champions could kill whoever they want and you could do nothing to stop them (Jarvan, Olaf, Riven) because of mobility and cc.

Now damage is off the board on all sides. If you don't build damage you can't compete in the meta. This item can only be healthy in the current meta.

But lets be real here, AP's have stuff like this already item 3001 item 3174

TequilaZombie1 votes

Now damage is off the board on all sides. If you don't build damage you can't compete in the meta. This item can only be healthy in the current meta.

I know. I'm totally in for the item being brought back. Maybe without the crit due to Yasuo being a thing now. I was just stating that it wouldn't be able to be abused by squishies like nep2une sugested due to how much health is needed to be able to use it as a viable damage item.

EDIT: JG Darius item 1401 + Atmas + Full tank.

Wheatloaf2 votes

I feel like the best fix for damage creep is something other than giving tanks more damage.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

I hope they bring back some version of it for at least the Diver update. That item was one of my favorites to build on MonkeyKing.

ManiacalCoyote1 votes

Shit. Nasus with item 3078 + item 3022 + item 3083 + item 3512 + item 3053 + Atma's 2091 Base HP +2150 HP from items +300 HP from SOTA +209 HP from runes (9x .5%) =4850 HP +25% base attack damage Spellblade does 250% +72 damage per attack. On-hit slow Rage Sterak's lifeline Obscene health regen

Ruin Lance1 votes
  • nasus already has natural lifesteal so warmog's is trash on him
  • nasus is better with less health items and more resistances because lifesteal synergizes with resistances better than health
  • frozen mallet is useless on him since you already have a massive single-target slow with your w
GULAG 4 U1 votes

Almost no resists.

Jofeyy1 votes

Atmas Impaler on tank Yasuo #MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

######...oh god what have I become

Aakesh1 votes

Waiting for FoN to come back form the deadSinged

OPHz1 votes

{quoted}

Waiting for FoN to come back form the deadSinged

best item ever

Lovelle1 votes

I agree. Building full defense just isn't worth it for tank champions right now. I've just been going near full damage on tanks and it seems like I contribute more than with a full tank build.

item 3748 is too expensive for what it offers and isn't even that good on the champs that are supposed to be building it. While Atmas would definitely be the better alternative, Yasuo would definitely abuse it. He seems to just ruin things for most of the roster with his current kit. As it stands, bruisers and AD tanks will never be able to have nice things until Yasuo gets a rework.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Remove the crit from it and the item should survive Yasuo.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

If it comes back they should remove the crit and give it something Tanky types actually need. Attack Speed maybe. An armor/AS item would be nice to have.

OPHz1 votes

yes yes make Gangplank unstoppable

OPHz1 votes

fiora atma gg

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

If you do,bruisers will Ben actually useful,and then you'll all the rage threads from Mage and marksman kids

DunkinNoobs1 votes

You want Atmas back in a world where item 3748 exists? Are you out of your goddamn mind?

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