Graves has higher HP/level than most bruisers

FalconPawwwwnch·5/7/2018, 9:43:00 PM·50 votes·14,822 views

More than Jax, Garen, Irelia, Camille, Fiora, Hecarim, Jarvan, and others

Not to mention his armor/level is insanely high considering how much free armor he gets

Why is this necessary?

38 Comments

Warlord Dienekes5/7/2018, 11:21:02 PM18 votes

If I had to guess. Graves is in a weird state. People think he’s supposed to be a marksman but he’s not. He’s some weird front-line ranged burst thing. There’s a reason why he was put in the unique playstyle class.

A lot of the bruisers either have healing, or hard engage style play which means they’re intended to build defenses and be better for it. While Graves damage is so gated by his abilities and terrible attack speed he can’t really afford defensive items and still remain effective. So he’s given a bit more health to allow him to survive long enough for his passive to take effect.

At least, in theory. In practice the line where a little bit more health to survive allows him to turn into an unstoppable killer is a bit fuzzy.

He’s strong now but he changed from a below 50% winrate to well above after getting only 4 more hit points per level. That’s not much, in most cases that’s not even noticeable until late game when Graves’ effectiveness already drops. But it gave him the extra second or two for his passive to be effective.

Edit: I can’t do math apparently. They increased him by 8. That’s... a lot more. Still maintain the reason for why his health needs to be high-ish. But that probably overdid it.

Marshbouy5/7/2018, 9:46:07 PM7 votes

Sion has a higher base AD than Zed. (68-136 vs 63-121 respectively)

What's your point again?

EDIT: If you couldn't tell by my second comment on this thread, my initial thoughts were wrong so I went back an edited them. The fact that I am currently sitting at -22 pisses me off. It's not the fact that people are downvoting me, but that the fact that at least 23 people read my comment and only one of them actually replied to me about the Facts that I brought up.

I'm trying to do some actual gameplay discussion here. C'mon.

Baron Barian5/7/2018, 9:47:05 PM7 votes

Unlike mot of them, he doesn't build any kind of tank items. The extra health helps to let him get in close and not just die in 1 shot.

ValiantKiller5/7/2018, 10:22:18 PM6 votes

{quoted}

More than Jax, Garen, Irelia, Camille, Fiora, Hecarim, Jarvan, and others

Not to mention his armor/level is insanely high considering how much free armor he gets

Why is this necessary?

Cause they know how to busted ranged champion with more hp or shield like kai, like the guy got bigger hp pool than the Urgot rework which is kinda right now trash level and even the engage melee champions like MonkeyKing and XinZhao

Warlord Rhinark5/8/2018, 8:11:16 AM3 votes

REVERT GRAVES

HàrrowR5/8/2018, 2:29:31 PM3 votes

Cause he doesn't have any CC or Shield compared to those you listed,also someone already mentioned,he can't opt as easily to go into defensive build since then he will be just a ccless damageless burden on your team,he has to build damage and this gives him some more time to survive and stack his passive.

Also his passive used to be double and gave MR also,stop complaining ffs

DragonShea5/8/2018, 12:25:55 PM2 votes

On one hand he is supposed to be a durable marksman,

on the other hand he is ranged so he shouldn't be tougher than other ranged champs, Hell Urgot is supposed to be tankier than Graves.

PhearBunny5/7/2018, 10:16:49 PM2 votes

PD DD and BC are basically pseudo tank items, so.

Rouwhorst5/8/2018, 2:06:35 PM1 votes

But what about Jayce? He has 576 – 2191 HP and 27 – 86.5 Armor. (while also gaining additional resistances in melee) Compared to Graves with: 551.1 – 2115.1 HP and 33 – 90.8 Armor.

Colte5/8/2018, 8:10:48 AM1 votes

despite those advantages he gets buffed? wtf [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Shrek Luigi5/8/2018, 8:25:47 PM1 votes

many of those champs arguably have a lot more inherent value in their kits, rather than their base-stat or stat-per-level value, though. it would also be fair to say that, other than scaling generously with AD, there is nothing over-the-top in Graves' kit gameplay-wise......bullying people with his stat-wall potential/zoning people out is a bigger appeal to many people who play him rather than just trying to goon people with his rotation.

it doesn't come down to just numbers; trying to compare Graves to a champ like J4 or Camille on that kind of basis is crazy. if any part of his kit needs to be tuned down, it's that monstrous smokescreen ability.

Marothennan5/8/2018, 8:44:02 PM1 votes

Bring old Graves back.... If Cait isn't a real sniper then why does Graves have to be a real shotgun user

princeblumpkin5/8/2018, 11:44:08 PM1 votes

Graves doesn't get to build Triforce into Steraks, or tank items at all, for that matter.

Modl Ryden l5/9/2018, 2:31:44 AM1 votes

If you look at all the stats of tanks/fighters vs dps champs (burst/sustained w/e), dps champs tend to have more base defensive stats than tanks and vice versa.

The reasons is to combat the lack of stats with their natural build tendencies. So that dps champs can have some rigidity, while tanks can still do damage without having to forsake their natural build path.

Which also why often you'll see tanks wanted to go FULL DAMAGE 4/2/0 KDA 10:01 video (not click bait) games fail a lot of times because they're supplementing stats that are already being reinforced by their base stats, and therefore leaving the the rest of their kit to fall off because those abilities don't benefit from the bullding "off-meta" or "off-build" items.

Not to say that it's set in stone that YOU MUST build a champ the way Riot recommends, it just comes at a cost of kit efficacy.

Triumphant Glory5/9/2018, 3:31:28 PM1 votes

FF is the same as old Warlord bloodlust... i'm wondering why people didn't used FF from the start tbh. It was what made Graves obnoxious to deal with.