I hate how bronze opinion is suddenly invalidated

Succubús GF·May 5, 2016·3 votes·1,062 views

Like "oh haha you are currently in elo hell so you get no opinion ever"

25 Comments

UnpaladinMay 5, 201611 votes

It's for an entirely legitimate reason, as low elo players lack game knowledge and complain a lot don't listen to me though I'm only gold :^)

Succubús GFMay 5, 20161 votes

It is not legitimate. It is basically saying "oh you can not possibly be right because you are bronze" it is rather infuriating especially when you bring forth facts to back up your argument

Leopards GhostMay 5, 20161 votes

depends on the point being raised. bronze players aren't students of technical play.

Critmaster GarenMay 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is not legitimate. It is basically saying "oh you can not possibly be right because you are bronze" it is rather infuriating especially when you bring forth facts to back up your argument

well, you are bronze, because you have no fucking clue how the game actually works. maybe you think that you do, but youre lacking in one or multiple areas to actually form an informed opinion on game health and balance. if you didnt, you wouldnt be sitting in bronze.

silver and gold arent much better. silvers usually are a little better with some of the basic mechanics like lasthitting. but they still usually suck when it comes to decision making and objective control. not to mention they still feed their asses off when behind in lane, and act chaotic and unpredictable in teamfights.

it doesnt get much better until plat and upwards. thats the range riot is balancing around.

PDE5 InhibMay 5, 20161 votes

What is the balance like at level 10?

Critmaster GarenMay 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FwqVKUgG,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-05T21:48:06.492+0000)

What is the balance like at level 10?

you seriously think ive had this account for 6 years and im still lvl 10?

i dont know if youve seen the old boards, but it was pretty common to have a forum smurph. especially when you played on another region, since a cross region platform didnt exist, and you had to have an account on the appropriate server to post on the boards for the region.

i just stuck with it.

PDE5 InhibMay 5, 20161 votes

Not sure how I would know that your account is 6 years old? but k

Why would you make a "forum smurph"? Do you not want people to make fun of your ranking or something?

Critmaster GarenMay 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FwqVKUgG,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-05T22:30:12.127+0000)

Not sure how I would know that your account is 6 years old? but k

Why would you make a "forum smurph"? Do you not want people to make fun of your ranking or something?

i literally just explained it did you seriously just read the first sentence of that post?

UnpaladinMay 5, 20164 votes

That's right, you're not guaranteed to be wrong. however it doesn't change how the game literally changes massively when you go from playing in low elo to higher elos, so it's almost as if they're playing a different game all together. The players in high elo usually have enough knowledge about the game to make informed statements about X topic, too.

I mean, players in Bronze make all kinds of ridiculous mistakes that a more informed player would not. Knowing these mistakes and avoiding them are great ways to climb out of Bronze. I don't think it's a good idea to trust someone who says that "New Vladimir is OP! He one shot me!" when that player didn't recognise, say, he was 3 levels higher and has a full item and a half over you, OR the different ways to avoid/diffuse a situation like this. They had it coming.

TeslynMay 5, 20164 votes

please tell me more why you shouldnt be bronze

DukuesMay 5, 20163 votes

Basically what Nova said. Its just the lower your elo generally the lower your game knowledge so when people see someone is bronze they assume they are just inexperienced so there opinion might just be coming from lack of experience. That being said I am only gold and played this game forever and no one wants my opinion either haha. For good reason though I am pretty bad.

Succubús GFMay 5, 20161 votes

I mean im not saying im some god of league but i hate bringing up a point and then someone stating "oh you are bronze so ______" Instead of actually talking about it.

DukuesMay 5, 20161 votes

well what did you want to talk about?

iConcyMay 5, 20163 votes

I disagree with this, just because someone is bronze doesn't mean they lack game knowledge. Maybe they don't sit around for hours playing to better their skills but maybe they watch every game of the LCS and Korea on the weekend before they go to bed. Their game knowledge can be immense but their game skills not so much. In this case these people can also fundamentally understand the "mechanics" everyone talks about and completely gets what they must do but just physically can't because they're less inclined towards gaming than others.

This doesn't diminish their opinions, to me in slightly strengthens them. Generally speaking, lower ELO's have a less biased opinion because they have no attachment to a champion like higher ELO players that consistently play some of the champs people claim to be "broken"

DukuesMay 5, 20161 votes

Right there are reasons someone might be in bronze and have good game knowledge and mechanics, I am just speaking in averages.

Idk man like... there are certain champions I have always thought are bs. And you just don't see them played in higher elo. I think the reason they are not play more is not because higher elo players don't know how to play them its just there are stronger champion choices and their similar elo counterparts know how to play against them.

Like garen might role over low elo because he gets super fed in lane because he is mechanically easy to play. But his late game presence isn't always the best and in higher elo that will be exploited along with players knowing how to kite him more and therefore having him have less impact on the game.

iConcyMay 5, 20161 votes

its not becuase they dont know how to play them but it is because they don't play them. League is full of cocky players because well sadly it may be the one thing they're actually okay at and you can't be diamond and play a champ like garen?? for real garen?? you get what i'm saying? Thats why so many of those "Easy" champs aren't played. Faker does it because he knows they're broken and strong and he doesn't care about people's view of him. He played ryze when no one else wanted to and he did insane things with him, but players in the NA LCS couldn't stoop that low because of their own self reputation.

TormentulaMay 5, 20161 votes

Or faker was just better with the champ than anybody and knew the mechanics people didn't. I mean, clearly in LCS the team with the better game knowledge, plays, and coordination is going to win. He could play garen if he wanted, but he chose what he felt was the best pick vs. a particular comp with his team's comp as well as against his matchup. Also the fact nobody really plays that champ adds a bit of unfamiliarity for the rest of the players, they don't know what to expect from faker with a champ they don't expect to see in competitive play.

DukuesMay 5, 20161 votes

Not really sure what that has to do with bronze players knowing less than high elo players. Just fundamentally you have to know more to rise in rank than players in lower rankings. Speaking in terms of players actually playing not getting boosted or just not playing ranked games etc. If you take two players have them play 100 ranked games on a new account. After those 100 games one player is plat 5 and the other is bronze 1. Do you really think the player in bronze knows more about this game than the player who rose quickly to plat?

UnpaladinMay 5, 20161 votes

I dunno, game knowledge goes a really long way in low elos. Your enemies are incredibly prone to mistakes there and so even if you can't play the champion you're currently using you can still punish theirs. Reliably. And winning reliably is how you climb!

TormentulaMay 5, 20163 votes

Champions and the game should be balanced and voiced by the top tier players not the average playerbase. The average player base lacks the understanding of mechanics and counterplay to the champ in lower elo, and in the same scenario players don't understand the champs full potential as they don't know their champ that well.

A pro knows and can abuse the broken aspects of a champion or part of the game, an average player cannot, and thus hearing "x is broken" from somebody in bronze means nothing (if the champ was broken, then why don't you go get out of bronze with it? Apparently its freelo to the bronze player in question. I thought I'd do the same with talon and xin zhao but I didn't get very far! Infact i just learned their weaknesses while doing it and have no issues now.)

For example, Dr. mundo. The bane of blind pick and bronze player's existence, everybody complaining about him and then posting for balance changes, then all the way in high elo, you just see Dr. mundo nonexistent, banned? no.. just not played, because those players know how to outplay his ulti with ignite, grevious wounds, etc that lower elo doesn't think to do.

Vice versa example, azir.. anybody in bronze will ask for a buff, anybody in silver will say he's an ok champ, anybody in gold and higher will ask for nerfs as good (and I mean GOOD) azirs are destructive once you utilize his full potential, if they buffed azir because a bronze found him weak, then in higher elos he'd be completely unstoppable. Hence why "please buff x champ" threads get shutdown, because there is rarely a case where a champ actually needs a buff.

I'm not pointing fingers at anything you're saying in particularly, or beliefs, just exampling the general topic of average bronze players posting on the boards. I'm currently only silver II but I can still see the points in why you listen to higher elo over lower elo.

iConcyMay 5, 20161 votes

Well its because generally (in my opinion) lower ELO's are the perfect place to show case balance - not higher ELO's. The reason for this is everyone in higher ELO's are there for two reasons: one being they play more and they are mechanically better, the second is they play the same set of champs over and over again.

For instance Garen is a stupid champion in lower ELO's but higher ELO players says he's not good cause he's not played there - but Garen wouldn't be played in higher ELO's because he was never played in higher ELO's. Bjergsen doesn't play him, Balls doesn't play him, Huni doesn't play him etc. If for the hell of it someone played Garen once and showcased what he was actually capable of the view of him would be different. But that would never happen because he just simply not played in higher ELO.

When balancing a game, you should balance for the masses, not the small proportion of your player base that are egotistical shits like you have in league.

And on many occasion, people in higher ELO get defensive because the champs that most players see as "broken" are the champs they have to continuously play to get the rank they have so they make up excuses like "skill cap" and "outplay" and "counter play" but they're all just excuses to defend why a champ must remain that way.

TormentulaMay 5, 20161 votes

I don't see the point in a high elo player defending a broken champ for their elo's sake, they're in the elo they're in not because of their champ, but because they understand how to handle the other factors in a game (outplaying other champs with their champ, warding, objective control, builds, etc). If using a broken champ to climb elo was true, there would be no such thing as that champ being seen in low elo as they'd all be in high elo by now, not to mention win/rs never exceed over around 55%, with 45% of the time you're still losing with that champion, you're not climbing by just spamming that champ and still losing 45% of the time with it. You may get out of that elo because players don't know how to deal with it in bronze, but you're not going further than silver when the game actually requirs objective control, grouping, warding, and other champion outplaying/mechanics. You'll then climb not because "I locked in yi" but because you also put a lot of vision on the make, outplayed the enemy team, ganked and engaged at the proper time, build accordingly, etc.. which you will do with anything.

If anything, players that abuse that champ still want them nerfed due to:

their main is always banned so it's practicely unplayable.
somebody else grabs their main, they get cancer. I'm a kindred main and I hate having to deal with kindred, so it's just a ban before somebody else grabs it.

HigeMay 5, 20161 votes

you're supposed to rise divisions as your knowledge of the game increases... do some math :S

My eeeeelMay 5, 20161 votes

I don't play game much, but I have a lot of game knowledge. I watched most of tournament during season 1,2. And I never got to bronze, because just I know how to win better.