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Thornmail Changes

AHarmlessTaco··3 votes·586 views

item 3075 The item is designed to more or less prevent AA based champions from sustaining off tanks, but it is counter-intuitive with Frozen Heart and Randuin's Omen. It was too oppressive as an early pick up on bruisers who did not end up building full tank. Everyone outsustains the item now, even against full tanks.

Suggestions:

Thornmail +100 Armor UNIQUE: Reflects 20% of the physical damage taken (+ 30% bonus armor) from basic attacks and on-hit effects back to its source as magic damage over 1.5 seconds (Calculated before any resistances or reductions are taken into account). UNIQUE: Healing effects from basic attacks against this user are reduced by 40%.

REASONING: If you have Frozen Heart and Randuin's and an attack speed slow in your kit, buying Thornmail seems VERY counter-intuitive. The live form of Thornmail also is much heavier-handed against high attack speed champions than it is against someone like Jhin or Caitlyn. Therefore, I bumped the reflection damage slightly, but spread it over 1.5 seconds. This should result in less damage overall to most champions, but it won't be as AS dependent. Rather than just making the item apply grievous wounds, I made it so that all on-hit healing is reduced by 50%. This directly punishes all basic attacks against the tank, but leaves alone things like Summoner Heal, ORANGES, Support heals, ETC... I believe this to be a fair way to counter lifesteal without breaking the item.

9 Comments

Marshbouy2 votes

What if i told you that thornmail was never designed to deal damage, but to negate the enemies healing?

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/templates/123188.jpg

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

UNIQUE: Healing effects from basic attacks against this user are reduced by 50%.

Then I would tell you that my suggestion was on point?

Marshbouy2 votes

UNIQUE: Reflects 30% of the physical damage taken (+ 50% bonus armor) from basic attacks and on-hit effects back to its source as magic damage over 1.5 seconds (Calculated before any resistances or reductions are taken into account).

it's still doing damage.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Alrighty, then the damage can be reduced. ._.

Marshbouy2 votes

Nah, just keep it how it is. TBH it should just be removed because the item itself isnt a great idea. Being punished for just AA someone is stupid.

AHarmlessTaco3 votes

Watching an ADC fully heal by focusing your tank is also not a great thing to watch. It makes a tank feel like they are doing more harm than good by simply trying to do what the tank is supposed to do.

Sona Ping1 votes

Armor counters Lifesteal already. Thornmail passive effectively counters lifesteal by percentage damage reflection which is not only a greater percentage than all lifesteal items except Bloodthirster (maybe) but additionally deals damage back on every attack. It works against lifesteal in three ways already.

Now correct my quick math if I am wrong, but a 2 item adc attacking with 184 AD AAs against a level 12 Nautilus with Thornmail and no other defensive items, will take 68.45 damage per hit while they heal a total of about 7 from their Vamp Scepter (10% lifesteal, the most common amount.).

And you are suggesting to double these thornmail effects while hopping on this stupid "GW for Thornmail" idea train and wanting Super Grievous Wounds even on top of that.

That's ridiculous.

{quoted}

Alright, soooo, probably beating a dead horse here, but here it goes.

item 3075 The item is designed to counter AA reliant champions, but it is counter-intuitive with Frozen Heart and Randuin's Omen. It was too oppressive as an early pick up on bruisers who did not end up building full tank. Everyone outsustains the item now.

Suggestions:

Thornmail +100 Armor UNIQUE: Reflects 30% of the physical damage taken (+ 50% bonus armor) from basic attacks and on-hit effects back to its source as magic damage over 1.5 seconds (Calculated before any resistances or reductions are taken into account). UNIQUE: Healing effects from basic attacks against this user are reduced by 50%.

REASONING: If you have Frozen Heart and Randuin's and an attack speed slow in your kit, buying Thornmail seems VERY counter-intuitive. The live form of Thornmail also is much heavier-handed against high attack speed champions than it is against someone like Jhin or Caitlyn. Therefore, I bumped the reflection damage to double damage, but spread it over 1.5 seconds.

Rather than just making the item apply grievous wounds, I made it so that all on-hit healing is reduced by 50%. This directly punishes all basic attacks against the tank, but leaves alone things like Summoner Heal, ORANGES, Support heals, ETC... I believe this to be a fair way to counter lifesteal without breaking the item.

Vincenttnecniv1 votes

I'd be in favor of making it an active like Blademail in Dota or Thorns in Smite.

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